Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:469eb4a7$0$4702$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I really believe that this is solely an HP action and that they are trying
>to use MS as a scapegoat when in fact it's pure HP.
Well, at least two people in this group that have more knowledge about the
details have already disagreed with you. HP really has no reason to want to
do this on thier own, it is in thier best interests to have folks continue
to use thier printers. They they still provide Win 3.1 and Win 95 drivers
for many printers. There are issues here that you do not understand and
they appear to be beyond HP's direct control.
> But either way, I'm surprised that more of a fuss isn't being made about
> this in the general PC community. It's a fairly big deal.
Well, maybe it is not that big a deal after all? I asked for examples from
folks who needed a driver and have not had any responses. I suppose that
most folks installing a printer in Win 98 have probably done it years ago,
or perhaps they are just using the built in drivers.
I do wish the drivers were still available somewhere as I keep a Windows 98
virtual machine around to load drivers to test for folks with issues. I
would suspect they will turn up somewhere if there is demand. On the other
hand, Win 98 has a declining installed base....
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
> Well, at least two people in this group that have more knowledge about the
> details have already disagreed with you. HP really has no reason to want
> to do this on thier own, it is in thier best interests to have folks
> continue to use thier printers.
Actually, it's in ther best interest to have folks continue to BUY their
printers. After that, they don't give a squat about what the user does with
them (at least once their out of warranty).
Re: An open apology to HP and others (driver issues)
It would be nice to know the full legal ramifications. I do see a lot
of "driver" websites, some require registration, some are free and some
try to charge fees. Same with user manuals and service manuals. I
haven't yet seen any attempt to shut down these websites, but that may
be more about small change than about legalities and rights.
> On Jul 10, 4:15 pm, Arthur Entlich <e-printerh...@mvps.org> wrote:
> ---snip---
>
>>Is it legal for another website to hold and distribute these drivers?
>>(I imagine, strictly speaking, that it would violate several copyrights).
>>
>
> ---snip---
> Hi Art
> Although, I'm sure a lawyer could argue different but I see this
> as a clear case of "fair use". The person that has the printer
> has a right to the driver. It is part of the product. The driver has
> no other conflicting use with some other companies product
> ( or at least shouldn't ) so it is only useful for the original
> application.
> If it was distributed at no cost, there should be no copyright issue.
> Just my non-legal opinion.
> Dwight
>
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
I'm still doing some digging and research to see if this situation can
be reversed. It will probably take a few weeks before I get some
definitive answers. As of right now, from the feedback I have received,
there is good reason to believe HP was between a rock and a hard place.
I'm not trying to be coy, but I want to be more clear of who is holding
the stings on this, and what exactly the agreements state before
clarifying publicly what the mechanics are.
Art
Barry Watzman wrote:
> I really believe that this is solely an HP action and that they are
> trying to use MS as a scapegoat when in fact it's pure HP.
>
> But either way, I'm surprised that more of a fuss isn't being made about
> this in the general PC community. It's a fairly big deal.
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> It may just be a matter of time, or that they didn't incorporate the
>> MS owned parts into their drivers. It's a good question.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> Gripper wrote:
>>
>>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>> The exact text of the message .... which appears on virtually every
>>>> single product if you try to download Windows 9x drivers .... is:
>>>>
>>>> *****beginning of exact quote
>>>>
>>>> "As of July 2007, HP will no longer be able to offer software driver
>>>> downloads or replacement CD ordering for Windows 98, 98 Second
>>>> Edition (SE), or Windows Millennium (Me) for your HP printer,
>>>> all-in-one, camera, or scanner. Microsoft has stopped providing and
>>>> supporting certain files related specifically to Windows 98 SE, and
>>>> this change affects all technology companies. HP, along with other
>>>> technology companies, is no longer able to use selected components
>>>> in support of Windows 98SE, which has an impact on our software
>>>> strategy for Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, and Windows Me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> *****end of quote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just out of curiosity, I went to the Epson printer driver download
>>> site- no trouble getting Win 98 drivers there.....
>>>
>>> hmmm...........
>>>
>>> <me thanks the god of printers that my last HP printer died some time
>>> ago>
>>>
>>>
Re: An open apology to HP and others (driver issues)
>>>Is it legal for another website to hold and distribute these drivers?
>>>(I imagine, strictly speaking, that it would violate several copyrights).
Definately illegal without some concrete form of permission given first.
Just because something is free doesn't mean that anyone can distribute it.
What if the developer used the number of downloads to judge the acceptance
of a product.
Then there is the liability factor. If you download a driver from a third
party and it damages your system the developer is not liable for the
damages, since the software was obtained elsewhere. The developer never had
the opportunity to make you aware of any issues with the driver, etc.
Finally, what if the developer discovers that their driver DOES do damage.
They correct the software and put the update on their site. How do they get
the rest of the world to stop distributing it?
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
Well, that's not totally true. Remember the business model printers are
sold under. There isn't a lot of profit in the printer hardware sales,
money is made from the cartridge/ink sales. Therefore, the best
scenario would be for everyone to buy one printer and be "forced" to buy
refill cartridges or ink from the OEM, with the printer lasting as long
as possible as current.
The only reasons printer companies introduce newer printers is to avoid
losing the client to the other brand (of inks) by keeping their product
fresh, new and innovative, and to upgrade "ink security" hardware, to
make it as hard as possible for earlier owners to refill or find
alternative consumables.
Art
Noozer wrote:
>>Well, at least two people in this group that have more knowledge about the
>>details have already disagreed with you. HP really has no reason to want
>>to do this on thier own, it is in thier best interests to have folks
>>continue to use thier printers.
>
>
> Actually, it's in ther best interest to have folks continue to BUY their
> printers. After that, they don't give a squat about what the user does with
> them (at least once their out of warranty).
>
>
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
Re: "it's in there best interest to have folks continue to BUY their
printers. After that, they don't give a squat ..."
Not true.
With printers (unlike, say, scanners) there is ongoing revenue from ink
cartridges. In fact, the printers themselves are reportedly often sold
at a loss, and the older cartridges have a higher profit margin than the
newer ones (because they are less stocked, less promoted and less
discounted all with less competition).
Noozer wrote:
>> Well, at least two people in this group that have more knowledge about the
>> details have already disagreed with you. HP really has no reason to want
>> to do this on thier own, it is in thier best interests to have folks
>> continue to use thier printers.
>
> Actually, it's in ther best interest to have folks continue to BUY their
> printers. After that, they don't give a squat about what the user does with
> them (at least once their out of warranty).
>
>
Re: An open apology to HP and others (driver issues)
Barry Watzman wrote:
> How about a competitor of HP getting a copy of the driver to reverse
> engineer it? Or a maker of non-HP consumables getting a copy of it to
> defeat some mechanisms that are used to prevent refilling or non-HP
> inks and toners. Or an attorney wanting an analysis of the code for
> use in a legal case (possibly against HP).
That is so stupid, beyond stupidity. If they really need a driver to
perform any of those things (itis probably in the firmware and not the
driver) they can spend a small amount and buy a printer (or the driver
is included in Windows) and have it. Gollie
>
> There are LOTS of reasons why people might want the driver other than
> to use it with a printer.
>
> But that's not the point. The owner of a piece of code has an
> absolute right to control how it is distributed and to whom. The are
> allowed to exercise that control illogically and without good reason
> if they so choose. It's their software, period.
>
>
> measekite wrote:
>>
>>
>> Barry Watzman wrote:
>>> Your non-legal opinion is legally wrong.
>>>
>>> The buyer of a printer does have a right to continue to use the
>>> drivers, and copy them for his own use.
>>>
>>> But that's far, far different from posting them on the Internet
>>> where anyone can download them (even if they didn't buy and don't
>>> own a printer).
>>
>> Duh, Y wood some one need a driver if they do not have the printer.
Re: "it's in there best interest to have folks continue to BUY their printers. After that, they don't give a squat ..." Not true. With printers (unlike, say, scanners) there is ongoing revenue from ink cartridges. In fact, the printers themselves are reportedly often sold at a loss, and the older cartridges have a higher profit margin than the newer ones (because they are less stocked, less promoted and less discounted all with less competition). Noozer wrote:
Well, at least two people in this group that have more knowledge about
the
details have already disagreed with you. HP really has no reason to
want
to do this on thier own, it is in thier best interests to have folks continue to use thier printers.
SNIP I think that your basic assumption is correct however it appears to me that the printer manufactors try to force their customers to buy new printers and new ink systems by upping the price of their cartridges. When I acquired my Epson printer the combined price of the four cartridges needed was near 19 Euros. The last time I checked the black cartridge along was 45 euros and the color ones were not in the stores. I bought a device to reset the chip and a refill kit. Now (until the cartidges wear out) I can refill all for about 4.50 Euros. JL
It is a shame that the high OEM prices force usrers to endure a refilling mess, lower quality, faster fading and the potential for a ruined printer.
Re: An open apology to HP and others (driver issues)
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:01:19 -0400, Barry Watzman
<WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>How about a competitor of HP getting a copy of the driver to reverse
>engineer it? Or a maker of non-HP consumables getting a copy of it to
>defeat some mechanisms that are used to prevent refilling or non-HP inks
>and toners. Or an attorney wanting an analysis of the code for use in a
>legal case (possibly against HP).
Why these crazy thoughts? Surely we can agree they would
just download it from HP's website long before now and some
"ideal" about whether they were technically allowed to use
it would not deter from downloading.
>
>There are LOTS of reasons why people might want the driver other than to
>use it with a printer.
>
>But that's not the point. The owner of a piece of code has an absolute
>right to control how it is distributed and to whom. The are allowed to
>exercise that control illogically and without good reason if they so
>choose. It's their software, period.
>
Actually no, they have a support requirement to their
customers who can demand they relinquish enough control to
have the product paid for - until such point as a court
would deem the demand unreasonable.
Re: An open apology to HP and others (driver issues)
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:04:54 GMT, Arthur Entlich
<e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote:
>It would be nice to know the full legal ramifications. I do see a lot
>of "driver" websites, some require registration, some are free and some
>try to charge fees. Same with user manuals and service manuals. I
>haven't yet seen any attempt to shut down these websites, but that may
>be more about small change than about legalities and rights.
>
Either your intentions are not good or you are not thinking
of the end results. Clearly there is not a right to
redistribute but it is better that it happens anyway.
It would be better to not be so "thorough" about it, to just
entirely forget your line of thinking and leave things
alone. Being anal about it will, IF any effect, be
negative for everyone because if someone is pressed and
nagged about enforcing their rights it will tend to cause
more enforcement or same, not less. It would harm the
customers yet not benefit the (driver) owner. It would give
the customer negative feelings about the owner to have no
way at all to use a product.
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
measekite wrote:
>>
>>
> It is a shame that the high OEM prices force usrers to endure a
> refilling mess, lower quality, faster fading and the potential for a
> ruined printer.
>"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:469eb4a7$0$4702$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>I really believe that this is solely an HP action and that they are trying
>>to use MS as a scapegoat when in fact it's pure HP.
>
>Well, at least two people in this group that have more knowledge about the
>details have already disagreed with you.
Be careful using the word "knowledge".
A) This is usenet
B) Embellishment and Imagination are common
C) Contact with a company adds further heresay factors, it
is what their formal policy dictates that you will hear from
them.
>HP really has no reason to want to
>do this on thier own, it is in thier best interests to have folks continue
>to use thier printers.
On the surface this seems true, and as hardware enthusiasts
we want this to be the case, but historically the companies
who eventually drop support for old products on old OS are
not limited to only HP. Further, what is good or bad for HP
as a whole, does not necessarily have a direct impact on the
person who had the authority and made the decision. This is
not to imply it was solely HP's decision based on some
internal policy change, but we don't have enough information
to make any conclusion. Thus far we don't have any
indication there was any external requirement to pull the
drivers, such as identification of anything in their drivers
which would time-limit distribution. Without any evidence
of it, even a statement from HP is not backed by any proof.
>They they still provide Win 3.1 and Win 95 drivers
>for many printers. There are issues here that you do not understand and
>they appear to be beyond HP's direct control.
Actually we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude
anything is out of their control. It is extremely unlikely
they would enter into any agreement which limited their
rights to distribute code they own and also unlikely they
would bundle their code with 3rd party code such that it
effectively resulted in same limitation of losing control of
distribution rights. This is a fairly obvious factor to
anyone distributing software, a company the size of HP would
not just "overlook" this when there would be plenty of
alternatives.
>
>> But either way, I'm surprised that more of a fuss isn't being made about
>> this in the general PC community. It's a fairly big deal.
>
>Well, maybe it is not that big a deal after all? I asked for examples from
>folks who needed a driver and have not had any responses.
I don't think people who need the driver will be coming to a
usenet group continually so when you happen to ask, they'd
be ready to post "me too". Obviously anyone who is using
one of their discontinued products on Win98/95 is a
potential candidate. Many people do not maintain software
or original driver CDs (or remember where they put them
after several years) even though it is highly advised.
> I suppose that
>most folks installing a printer in Win 98 have probably done it years ago,
>or perhaps they are just using the built in drivers.
Envisioning a mere one scenario (Or lack thereof) does not
encompass all possible needs now or in the future. Except
for some very old HP laser printers, anything software
driven will not work with built in drivers.
>
>I do wish the drivers were still available somewhere as I keep a Windows 98
>virtual machine around to load drivers to test for folks with issues. I
>would suspect they will turn up somewhere if there is demand. On the other
>hand, Win 98 has a declining installed base....
IMO, it is always best to download the latest driver when
first installing a product and permanently archive that.
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:39:36 GMT, Arthur Entlich
<e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote:
>Well, that's not totally true. Remember the business model printers are
>sold under. There isn't a lot of profit in the printer hardware sales,
>money is made from the cartridge/ink sales.
You're only thinking of the low-end printers, many of which
would likely be broken or abandoned by now.
>Therefore, the best
>scenario would be for everyone to buy one printer and be "forced" to buy
>refill cartridges or ink from the OEM, with the printer lasting as long
>as possible as current.
No, see above. The best scenario is to have products that
cover all market segments, all price points even if that
means many of the low-end have high, partially obscured
operating costs due to impulse buyers not fully researching
what the total cost of ownership will be over time, or
simply not being able to afford paying several hundred
dollars per peripheral at once.
>
>The only reasons printer companies introduce newer printers is to avoid
>losing the client to the other brand (of inks) by keeping their product
>fresh, new and innovative, and to upgrade "ink security" hardware, to
>make it as hard as possible for earlier owners to refill or find
>alternative consumables.
>
Maybe these are reasons, maybe, but certainly not the only
ones. The general idea of staying competitive is bound to
be one of the largest influences.
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
"Frank" <fb@nospaer.cmn> wrote in message
news:469f9ab4$0$8990$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> measekite wrote: his usual non-OEM nonsense that he spouts without having
> any experience with any ink product other than OEM inks in his four year
> old ip4000 printer
>
> How would you know?
> Frank
Obviously, Frank, he doesn't know!
To "endure a mess" includes two false Measekite concepts - that one endures
(read suffers) refilling, and that refilling is a mess. After the first
few attempts at refilling, and with some self-education from the vendors'
web sites and a site such as the Nifty Stuff Forum, one learns how to refill
neatly.
Next false statement: Inferior results? I don't have to be satisfied with
inferior results - a side-by-side comparison of prints made with MIS inks
and with Canon OEM inks in my i960 and ip5000 printers results in prints
that are really difficult (read impossibly) to tell apart. Similar results
are reported with Formulabs and Hobbicolor inks.
Next false statement: Damage to printers? My i960 is four years old.
After really heavy use I replaced the printhead last year and it is still
going strong. The money I've saved with refilling could have paid for two
dozen printers or printheads as compared to the cost of using OEM inks. The
ip5000 (one picoliter nozzles) loves the aftermarket ink I feed it. This
printer is a year and a half old and works just fine. Neither printer has
ever needed me to run a cleaning cycle. Of course, they automatically run
cleaning cycles when changing carts and on a time-and-use basis.
A partial Measekite truth: fading. In accelerated fade tests done by
participants of the Nifty-Stuff forum it was demonstrated that after
prolonged exposure to UV light some of the non-OEM ink colors fade more than
Canon OEM inks. Unfortunately, Wilhelm didn't test the inks we use, nor did
Consumers or PC Magazine. Although accelerated fade tests do show increased
fading at some point, the pictures I have framed and on display, as well as
pictures in albums, have exhibited no apparent fading in approximately four
years. Measekite makes the same claim for prints that have been laying on
his desk. We have endured (read suffered) this claim for nearly four years.
I must assume that the very same prints have been gathering dust on his desk
for that period of time, which begs the question, why don't you ever clean
your damned desk? Don't you have more important things that should occupy
the surface of your desk? Like work? I'm afraid that the "no fading of
prints laying on the desk" claim has no more credibiliy than the rest of his
nonsense. Another product of a twisted imagination.
One out of four Measekite statements is true, but is significant only with
prolonged UV exposure (and probably ozone as well). In medical research
projects, statistical analysis may demonstrate that a result is
statistically significant but not clinically significant. For many of us,
the fading issue is not significant for the prints we are producing. In any
classroom, getting one correct answer out of four earns a failing grade. Put
Measekite in the corner and put a pointy cap on his pointy head!
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
The therad is interesting, but really has no impact on my operations.
Reason? Last HP printer still in service will be replace with a non HP
printer when it fails or ink gets too expensive.
HP consumer and light duty business printers have been cost reduced to the
point that there is no real advantage in buying them.
(My opinion) Cannon printers that I've owned (S600,S750) seem to be good
reliable printers. Older Cannons 240 etc. drove me to epson printers, just
as Epson models drove me to Cannon at one point.
The bit with the chipped ink tanks really causes me to say that the next
time around, printers with that type of "feature" will not be considered.
measlekite isn't old enough to have had the measles.
"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:QUFni.130676$1i1.32884@pd7urf3no...
> I'm still doing some digging and research to see if this situation can
> be reversed. It will probably take a few weeks before I get some
> definitive answers. As of right now, from the feedback I have received,
> there is good reason to believe HP was between a rock and a hard place.
>
> I'm not trying to be coy, but I want to be more clear of who is holding
> the stings on this, and what exactly the agreements state before
> clarifying publicly what the mechanics are.
>
> Art
>
>
> Barry Watzman wrote:
>
> > I really believe that this is solely an HP action and that they are
> > trying to use MS as a scapegoat when in fact it's pure HP.
> >
> > But either way, I'm surprised that more of a fuss isn't being made about
> > this in the general PC community. It's a fairly big deal.
> >
> > Arthur Entlich wrote:
> >
> >> It may just be a matter of time, or that they didn't incorporate the
> >> MS owned parts into their drivers. It's a good question.
> >>
> >> Art
> >>
> >> Gripper wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> The exact text of the message .... which appears on virtually every
> >>>> single product if you try to download Windows 9x drivers .... is:
> >>>>
> >>>> *****beginning of exact quote
> >>>>
> >>>> "As of July 2007, HP will no longer be able to offer software driver
> >>>> downloads or replacement CD ordering for Windows 98, 98 Second
> >>>> Edition (SE), or Windows Millennium (Me) for your HP printer,
> >>>> all-in-one, camera, or scanner. Microsoft has stopped providing and
> >>>> supporting certain files related specifically to Windows 98 SE, and
> >>>> this change affects all technology companies. HP, along with other
> >>>> technology companies, is no longer able to use selected components
> >>>> in support of Windows 98SE, which has an impact on our software
> >>>> strategy for Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, and Windows Me.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>
> >>>> *****end of quote
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Just out of curiosity, I went to the Epson printer driver download
> >>> site- no trouble getting Win 98 drivers there.....
> >>>
> >>> hmmm...........
> >>>
> >>> <me thanks the god of printers that my last HP printer died some time
> >>> ago>
> >>>
> >>>
The bit with the chipped ink tanks really causes me to say that the next time around, printers with that type of "feature" will not be considered.
Here's one for you: all the cell phone companies sell/use Blackberry, but Verizon takes it one further: the battery on THEIR Blackberry is chipped. That's right. You can't hit Ebay and buy a $5 Chinese battery for a Verizon BlackBerry.
Do they also put antifreeze in the battery so it will explode?
You have to buy it from Verizon, complete with chip. The DCMA has led to these kinds of abuses. "Hey, if I chip it, they can't sell a clone without violating the DCMA." Screw them. I'm with you. Will not be considered for future purchases.
HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HP And Compaq
Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two months,
both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M) inability to load.
No one seems to give shit or has any answers. Have tried updating,
requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded the IDE Controllers. I
returned one of them still have a V6000 new Compaq with a useless CD and no
way to up load new programs.
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HPAnd Compaq
No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type).
You misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
Dale_Peterson wrote:
> Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two months,
> both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M) inability to
> load. No one seems to give shit or has any answers. Have tried
> updating, requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded the IDE
> Controllers. I returned one of them still have a V6000 new Compaq with
> a useless CD and no way to up load new programs.
>
> Dale Peterson
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HP And Compaq
"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:46a13b60$0$8927$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type). You
> misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
>
>
> Dale_Peterson wrote:
>> Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two months,
>> both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M) inability to
>> load. No one seems to give shit or has any answers. Have tried updating,
>> requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded the IDE Controllers. I
>> returned one of them still have a V6000 new Compaq with a useless CD and
>> no way to up load new programs.
>>
>> Dale Peterson
If that's the case the device mgr should probably quite telling me that the
driver is corrupt and you would think that with all the correspondence I 've
sent to HP and MS that they would tell me that. I'm deaf so I can't carry on
a conversation on the phone with them. I do and would appreciate any
corrective advice.
Thank You
dale P.............
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HPAnd Compaq
When I said that no drivers are required, I meant no special, device
specific drivers. The normal drivers for your IDE port ... the same
port that may have your hard drive on it ... also handles optical IDE
drives [or SATA, if that is the type of interface in use]. And the IDE
port drivers are a standard, built-in part of Windows. Nothing you need
to download special, and nothing specific (unless you are using some
type of non-standard IDE port, such as an add-in PCI card).
Dale_Peterson wrote:
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:46a13b60$0$8927$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type).
>> You misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
>>
>>
>> Dale_Peterson wrote:
>>> Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two
>>> months, both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M)
>>> inability to load. No one seems to give shit or has any answers.
>>> Have tried updating, requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded
>>> the IDE Controllers. I returned one of them still have a V6000 new
>>> Compaq with a useless CD and no way to up load new programs.
>>>
>>> Dale Peterson
>
> If that's the case the device mgr should probably quite telling me that
> the driver is corrupt and you would think that with all the
> correspondence I 've sent to HP and MS that they would tell me that. I'm
> deaf so I can't carry on a conversation on the phone with them. I do
> and would appreciate any corrective advice.
> Thank You
> dale P.............
Re: An open apology to HP and others (driver issues)
Yeap, I was aware of each of these, actually, and the question was a bit
of a devil's advocacy.
Of course, the real question is what the actual response to such a
situation is in the real world. There are hundreds of websites offering
service manual, drivers, and other services that involve copyrighted
materials and I see very little response by the larger owners of these
items.
Art
Noozer wrote:
>>>>Is it legal for another website to hold and distribute these drivers?
>>>>(I imagine, strictly speaking, that it would violate several copyrights).
>
>
> Definately illegal without some concrete form of permission given first.
>
> Just because something is free doesn't mean that anyone can distribute it.
> What if the developer used the number of downloads to judge the acceptance
> of a product.
>
> Then there is the liability factor. If you download a driver from a third
> party and it damages your system the developer is not liable for the
> damages, since the software was obtained elsewhere. The developer never had
> the opportunity to make you aware of any issues with the driver, etc.
>
> Finally, what if the developer discovers that their driver DOES do damage.
> They correct the software and put the update on their site. How do they get
> the rest of the world to stop distributing it?
>
>
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HPAnd Compaq
Dale_Peterson wrote:
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:46a13b60$0$8927$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type).
>> You misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
>>
>>
>> Dale_Peterson wrote:
>>> Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two
>>> months, both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M)
>>> inability to load. No one seems to give shit or has any answers.
>>> Have tried updating, requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded
>>> the IDE Controllers. I returned one of them still have a V6000 new
>>> Compaq with a useless CD and no way to up load new programs.
>>>
>>> Dale Peterson
>
> If that's the case the device mgr should probably quite telling me that
> the driver is corrupt and you would think that with all the
> correspondence I 've sent to HP and MS that they would tell me that. I'm
> deaf so I can't carry on a conversation on the phone with them. I do
> and would appreciate any corrective advice.
> Thank You
> dale P.............
If I go to Device Manager on my computer, and display the hardware, I can see
my GCR-8523B. If I go to the properties and use the Drivers tab and Driver
Details, it shows:
My OS is Win2K, and these drivers came with the OS. They are not a separate
driver.
Another solution that comes up occasionally, has to do with Upperfilters/Lowerfilters
and the use of third party software like InCD. Don't take this as a verbatim
fix, but instead, investigate whether your symptoms are consistent or not.
Sometimes, the installation of CD/DVD burning software, can upset the
operation of an optical drive. I've even had a piece of software that
makes a "virtual CD" (i.e. mounts an ISO and makes it look like it is
a CD), foul up the operation of a burner. It took me a while to figure
it out, because the symptoms looked a lot like the burner had a
hardware failure.
An alternative, might be to use an optical drive in an external enclosure.
With modern burning software, you can even set up a DVD burner in an
external USB enclosure. So that can be used as a workaround until you get
a real fix for the problem with the internal drive.
At least part of the problem could be terminology. The first part of solving
a problem, is using language common to both parties. For example, if the
Device Manager was complaining, it might say "Code 10" or something similar.
Recording exact error messages is very important, because you can use the
exact text in a Google or Altavista.com search. Also, even if the resulting
web pages don't answer your question, you'll learn what terminology people use
to describe the problem, making it easier to explain the problem later to
others.
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message
kony wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:39:36 GMT, Arthur Entlich
> <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, that's not totally true. Remember the business model printers are
>>sold under. There isn't a lot of profit in the printer hardware sales,
>>money is made from the cartridge/ink sales.
>
>
>
> You're only thinking of the low-end printers, many of which
> would likely be broken or abandoned by now.
>
>
You're correct that the ink versus printer price are relative inversely.
The higher priced printers typically use less costly inks per output,
or they provide special features. Other peripherals have different
marketing strategies created for them.
>
>>Therefore, the best
>>scenario would be for everyone to buy one printer and be "forced" to buy
>>refill cartridges or ink from the OEM, with the printer lasting as long
>>as possible as current.
>
>
> No, see above. The best scenario is to have products that
> cover all market segments, all price points even if that
> means many of the low-end have high, partially obscured
> operating costs due to impulse buyers not fully researching
> what the total cost of ownership will be over time, or
> simply not being able to afford paying several hundred
> dollars per peripheral at once.
>
>
No business wants to have a market niche taken away or do they typically
wish to ignore a potential market niche to exploit. But that is mainly
because another company might take over that influence, or gain profits
which may give them the opportunity to use those profits to price
manipulate other sectors.
>
Art
>
>>The only reasons printer companies introduce newer printers is to avoid
>>losing the client to the other brand (of inks) by keeping their product
>>fresh, new and innovative, and to upgrade "ink security" hardware, to
>>make it as hard as possible for earlier owners to refill or find
>>alternative consumables.
>>
>
>
> Maybe these are reasons, maybe, but certainly not the only
> ones. The general idea of staying competitive is bound to
> be one of the largest influences.
>
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HP And Compaq
"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:46a1752f$0$29637$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> When I said that no drivers are required, I meant no special, device
> specific drivers. The normal drivers for your IDE port ... the same port
> that may have your hard drive on it ... also handles optical IDE drives
> [or SATA, if that is the type of interface in use]. And the IDE port
> drivers are a standard, built-in part of Windows. Nothing you need to
> download special, and nothing specific (unless you are using some type of
> non-standard IDE port, such as an add-in PCI card).
>
I know you're trying to help me and I appreciate it. The CD came installed
in both of my laptops, and failed about 5 to 8 days later.
Thanks again
Dale P.............
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HP And Compaq
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:f7ruuq$4jr$1@aioe.org...
> Dale_Peterson wrote:
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:46a13b60$0$8927$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type).
>>> You misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dale_Peterson wrote:
>>>> Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two months,
>>>> both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M) inability to
>>>> load. No one seems to give shit or has any answers. Have tried
>>>> updating, requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded the IDE
>>>> Controllers. I returned one of them still have a V6000 new Compaq with
>>>> a useless CD and no way to up load new programs.
>>>>
>>>> Dale Peterson
>>
>> If that's the case the device mgr should probably quite telling me that
>> the driver is corrupt and you would think that with all the
>> correspondence I 've sent to HP and MS that they would tell me that. I'm
>> deaf so I can't carry on a conversation on the phone with them. I do and
>> would appreciate any corrective advice.
>> Thank You
>> dale P.............
>
> If I go to Device Manager on my computer, and display the hardware, I can
> see
> my GCR-8523B. If I go to the properties and use the Drivers tab and Driver
> Details, it shows:
>
> C:\WINNT\system32\DRIVERS\cdrom.sys
> C:\WINNT\system32\DRIVERS\redbook.sys
> C:\WINNT\system32\storprop.dll
>
> My OS is Win2K, and these drivers came with the OS. They are not a
> separate
> driver.
>
> Another solution that comes up occasionally, has to do with
> Upperfilters/Lowerfilters
> and the use of third party software like InCD. Don't take this as a
> verbatim
> fix, but instead, investigate whether your symptoms are consistent or not.
> Sometimes, the installation of CD/DVD burning software, can upset the
> operation of an optical drive. I've even had a piece of software that
> makes a "virtual CD" (i.e. mounts an ISO and makes it look like it is
> a CD), foul up the operation of a burner. It took me a while to figure
> it out, because the symptoms looked a lot like the burner had a
> hardware failure.
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314060/EN-US/
>
> An alternative, might be to use an optical drive in an external enclosure.
> With modern burning software, you can even set up a DVD burner in an
> external USB enclosure. So that can be used as a workaround until you get
> a real fix for the problem with the internal drive.
>
> At least part of the problem could be terminology. The first part of
> solving
> a problem, is using language common to both parties. For example, if the
> Device Manager was complaining, it might say "Code 10" or something
> similar.
> Recording exact error messages is very important, because you can use the
> exact text in a Google or Altavista.com search. Also, even if the
> resulting
> web pages don't answer your question, you'll learn what terminology people
> use
> to describe the problem, making it easier to explain the problem later to
> others.
>
> Paul
Thank you Paul, the terminality thing is very important
Dale P................
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HP And Compaq
In article <CLboi.58$ib7.14@trnddc02>, "Dale_Peterson" <dale_peterson@verizon.net> wrote:
>"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:46a13b60$0$8927$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type). You
>> misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
>>
>>
>> Dale_Peterson wrote:
>>> Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two months,
>>> both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M) inability to
>>> load. No one seems to give shit or has any answers. Have tried updating,
>>> requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded the IDE Controllers. I
>>> returned one of them still have a V6000 new Compaq with a useless CD and
>>> no way to up load new programs.
>>>
>>> Dale Peterson
>
>If that's the case the device mgr should probably quite telling me that the
>driver is corrupt and you would think that with all the correspondence I 've
>sent to HP and MS that they would tell me that. I'm deaf so I can't carry on
>a conversation on the phone with them. I do and would appreciate any
>corrective advice.
>Thank You
>dale P.............
>
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HPAnd Compaq
GMAN wrote:
> In article <CLboi.58$ib7.14@trnddc02>, "Dale_Peterson" <dale_peterson@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:46a13b60$0$8927$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> No drivers are required for optical (CD or DVD) drives (of any type). You
>>> misunderstand the nature of what is going on, or it's cause.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dale_Peterson wrote:
>>>> Bought two new HP and a Compaq Presario laptops in the past two months,
>>>> both had cd failure due to drivers (TSST Corp TS-L632M) inability to
>>>> load. No one seems to give shit or has any answers. Have tried updating,
>>>> requesting new drivers from MS and HP, reloaded the IDE Controllers. I
>>>> returned one of them still have a V6000 new Compaq with a useless CD and
>>>> no way to up load new programs.
>>>>
>>>> Dale Peterson
>> If that's the case the device mgr should probably quite telling me that the
>> driver is corrupt and you would think that with all the correspondence I 've
>> sent to HP and MS that they would tell me that. I'm deaf so I can't carry on
>> a conversation on the phone with them. I do and would appreciate any
>> corrective advice.
>> Thank You
>> dale P.............
>>
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320553/
> http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/...3732&SiteID=17
There is an archived copy of 320553 here. It is another reference to Upperfilters
and Lowerfilters.
Re: HP TSST Corp TS-L632 M Drivers seem to be worthless in new HPAnd Compaq
Dale_Peterson wrote:
> I know you're trying to help me and I appreciate it. The CD came
> installed in both of my laptops, and failed about 5 to 8 days later.
How do you know it's a driver problem, not some electronic/mechanical
problem? What's happening?
Usually IDE CDs/DVDs are sitting on the same controller as the main HD,
so it sounds strange at the moment.
Which OS? Xp/Vista/Linux/sth else?
Re: HP Removed Drivers ..... exact text of HP message 