Newer Nvidia cards vs. older, reference to heat and fan speed/noise

I currently have an GeForce 6800 GT. The cooling fan seems to run at a
high rate most of the time in the summer. Does anyone know if the newer
PCI cards, 8s or 9s, are designed to run a little cooler thereby
reducing the need for higher fan speeds? I am about to build a new
computer and would like a little more quiet when not actually playing a
game.

I know I could cool this one better and cut the noise, but the new
computer will be running in the same conditions as this one. Possibly
there is a trade off between core clock or memory clock speed and
cooling, so a card with a little slower core clock or memory clock might
be quieter.

Thanks,
Clark

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:36:27 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
wrote:

>I currently have an GeForce 6800 GT. The cooling fan seems to run at a
>high rate most of the time in the summer.

One thingi that might help is improving the case
ventilation. Putting in a front intake fan, cutting out fan
grills if they're stamped into the wall of the case and
restrictive (In both front and back), leaving the slot under
the video card empty with that slot's rear case slot cover
left off, and/or cutting out a hole in the side panel
adjacent to the video card and putting a fan there (pref.
92mm or larger).

>Does anyone know if the newer
>PCI cards, 8s or 9s, are designed to run a little cooler thereby
>reducing the need for higher fan speeds?

Some do, some don't. In general to achieve same performance
level, yes it would produce less heat, though which heatsink
is on it also determines how fast the fan has to run, and
even with otherwise same heatsink the manufacturer might
choose a fan with higher or lower max RPM which would effect
the resultant speed at any particular card temp.


>I am about to build a new
>computer and would like a little more quiet when not actually playing a
>game.

Choose a card with the open zalman-like heatsink fin design.
For example,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121224
though I don't own this card, cannot guarantee how quiet it
is even though it has the needed elements to reduce noise
and claims low noise.

The 9600GT is significantly faster than your present card.
Something with a similar performance to yours would be
8600GT, though it may be a bit slower at past generations of
games, and being a gamer I would suggest you will want more
performance than 8600GT for (at least) near future games.


>
>I know I could cool this one better and cut the noise, but the new
>computer will be running in the same conditions as this one.

Ok, but it can be built with better chassis airflow,
especially if you are using a new case instead of being in a
hurry to strip down the old case and rebuild with minimal
system downtime then you have a better opportunity to do
more modifications to a new case if it doesn't start out
with enough airflow for your higher temp environment.

>Possibly
>there is a trade off between core clock or memory clock speed and
>cooling, so a card with a little slower core clock or memory clock might
>be quieter.

Yes given the same GPU and memory it would run cooler at low
speed, but lower performance too - in 2D many cards now
reduce their clockspeed for the lower heat already. Moving
to a larger more powerful GPU in the same process size you
will usually increase heat more than rasing clockspeed on
the lesser GPUs, but these (Moving towards) higher end cards
also may have better heatsinks. Put a tiny sink on a card
and it's fan may need to spin just as fast as a huge sink on
a card producing triple the heat or more.

Given what your present card is I feel 9600GT is the right
switch to make, along with the case cooling improvements.
Those improvements will help keep everything else cooler
too.

kony wrote:

>Choose a card with the open zalman-like heatsink fin design.

The card I have now uses a Zalman cooler. I was thinking the newer
cards seem to have a built in exhaust that would vent the hot air out
the back of the case. Even though I now have a large side fan blowing
directly on my current video card, it still seems to run hot. I was
thinking exhausting the air overboard would help the overall inside temp.

I have been looking at the 9600 cards. I notice some cards run with
faster core speeds, which is higher than standard, so I assume they are
basically overclocked and might run hotter.

I guess if I really want to cool the card, I would lower the temp in the
house, but I am trying to save a little money. The temps in my area
have been warmer, earlier than normal, so we may be in for one heck of a
summer.

I will look at the card you suggest.

Thanks for the response,
Clark

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:23:37 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
wrote:

>kony wrote:
>
> >Choose a card with the open zalman-like heatsink fin design.
>
>The card I have now uses a Zalman cooler.

Is the card actually running too hot, or is it just that the
original nVidia throttling control for the fan was designed
for the reference heatsink-fan, not redesigned for the
zalman so it is spinning faster than it would need to in
order to keep the card cool enough?

The Zalman reference was basically about the open design
rather than the closed ducted design, as it allows a thicker
and often larger diameter fan which can spin at lower RPM.
Plus, a different card generating less heat may make the
same heatsink fan spin slower, "IF" it is calibrated and
matched reasonably to that fan.



>I was thinking the newer
>cards seem to have a built in exhaust that would vent the hot air out
>the back of the case.

That can make the rest of the system in the upper rear
quadrant cooler, but that type tends to make at least as
much noise if not more because of the fan type used. Heat
dumped into the case and removed by the rear chassis fan can
often be removed with less noise increase because it is a
much larger, thicker fan requiring less if any RPM increase
to remain at an acceptible chassis ambient temp.


> Even though I now have a large side fan blowing
>directly on my current video card, it still seems to run hot. I was
>thinking exhausting the air overboard would help the overall inside temp.

It shouldn't be very hot in that situation, how high are
your room ambient temps in worst case scenario? Don't get
me wrong, it's going to get fairly high in temp being a
6800GT during gaming, but it shouldn't be nearly as hot
otherwise, in 2D uses the fan should be throttling back
quite a bit unless there is something wrong with the
throttling circuit or they somehow dropped the ball and
didn't implement one.


>
>I have been looking at the 9600 cards. I notice some cards run with
>faster core speeds, which is higher than standard, so I assume they are
>basically overclocked and might run hotter.

Yes, higher clocked cards would run hotter if all else were
equal, and may also have a higher set GPU voltage making
them run all the hotter, BUT the most important factor is
still the specific heatsink and fan thereon. To give
another example of a bad heatsink implementation, I have a
7600GT sitting on the desk which uses less than half the
heat of a 9600GT, but it came with a small barely effective
heatsink and so it's fan spun quite fast. I cut down an old
socket 370 heatsink till it was short enough to fit,
throttled back the fan on that till it was below 1000 RPM,
and the card stays cool enough while remaining in audible
once the case side panel is put back on.



>
>I guess if I really want to cool the card, I would lower the temp in the
> house, but I am trying to save a little money. The temps in my area
>have been warmer, earlier than normal, so we may be in for one heck of a
>summer.

If you look at the other 9600GT on Newegg's site, there is
at least one that is passively cooled. Normally I'd never
suggest a passively cooled card for someone who has a higher
temp environment but if you have a good side fan blowing
mostly under the card (not up in the CPU region which is
unfortunately all too common on modern cases) that should
suffice in cooling it.

You didn't mention whether your exhaust fans had an
unobstructed airway nor their size. Just blowing in on the
card leaves the other variable of the rate at which the
exhaust air is expelled from the case, which also effects
the intake air rate.

Keep in mind that no matter what card you buy (assuming a
gaming card from ATI or nVidia) you still have the option of
underclocking it, including your present card. IIRC, it
should offer the ability to reduce the 2D GPU clock speed
while leaving the 3D speed higher, but I think it keeps the
memory speed constant in both 2D and 3D. Since what you had
mentioned was 2D noise, you might find that underclocking it
by as much as possible has no significant effect on 2D uses,
but a direct linear reduction in heat. Whether that would
be enough to throttle back the fan I cannot say, in a good
design it would but video card tech evolves so quickly which
such short product lifecycles that nothing has much of a
chance to mature before it is obsolete.

On second thought I know what you need:

1) Camping tent
2) 1 roll duct tape
3) Portable air conditioner

Put yourself and 1/2 the A/C in the tent, duct tape off all
the seams and gaps. That way you stay cool too, without
paying for whole house cooling. Let others in the tent for
small favors or charge admission. ;-)

kony wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:23:37 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
> wrote:
>
>> kony wrote:
>>
>>> Choose a card with the open zalman-like heatsink fin design.
>> The card I have now uses a Zalman cooler.
>
> Is the card actually running too hot, or is it just that the
> original nVidia throttling control for the fan was designed
> for the reference heatsink-fan, not redesigned for the
> zalman so it is spinning faster than it would need to in
> order to keep the card cool enough?
>
> The Zalman reference was basically about the open design
> rather than the closed ducted design, as it allows a thicker
> and often larger diameter fan which can spin at lower RPM.
> Plus, a different card generating less heat may make the
> same heatsink fan spin slower, "IF" it is calibrated and
> matched reasonably to that fan.
>
>
>
>> I was thinking the newer
>> cards seem to have a built in exhaust that would vent the hot air out
>> the back of the case.
>
> That can make the rest of the system in the upper rear
> quadrant cooler, but that type tends to make at least as
> much noise if not more because of the fan type used. Heat
> dumped into the case and removed by the rear chassis fan can
> often be removed with less noise increase because it is a
> much larger, thicker fan requiring less if any RPM increase
> to remain at an acceptible chassis ambient temp.
>
>
>> Even though I now have a large side fan blowing
>> directly on my current video card, it still seems to run hot. I was
>> thinking exhausting the air overboard would help the overall inside temp.
>
> It shouldn't be very hot in that situation, how high are
> your room ambient temps in worst case scenario? Don't get
> me wrong, it's going to get fairly high in temp being a
> 6800GT during gaming, but it shouldn't be nearly as hot
> otherwise, in 2D uses the fan should be throttling back
> quite a bit unless there is something wrong with the
> throttling circuit or they somehow dropped the ball and
> didn't implement one.
>
>
>> I have been looking at the 9600 cards. I notice some cards run with
>> faster core speeds, which is higher than standard, so I assume they are
>> basically overclocked and might run hotter.
>
> Yes, higher clocked cards would run hotter if all else were
> equal, and may also have a higher set GPU voltage making
> them run all the hotter, BUT the most important factor is
> still the specific heatsink and fan thereon. To give
> another example of a bad heatsink implementation, I have a
> 7600GT sitting on the desk which uses less than half the
> heat of a 9600GT, but it came with a small barely effective
> heatsink and so it's fan spun quite fast. I cut down an old
> socket 370 heatsink till it was short enough to fit,
> throttled back the fan on that till it was below 1000 RPM,
> and the card stays cool enough while remaining in audible
> once the case side panel is put back on.
>
>
>
>> I guess if I really want to cool the card, I would lower the temp in the
>> house, but I am trying to save a little money. The temps in my area
>> have been warmer, earlier than normal, so we may be in for one heck of a
>> summer.
>
> If you look at the other 9600GT on Newegg's site, there is
> at least one that is passively cooled. Normally I'd never
> suggest a passively cooled card for someone who has a higher
> temp environment but if you have a good side fan blowing
> mostly under the card (not up in the CPU region which is
> unfortunately all too common on modern cases) that should
> suffice in cooling it.
>
> You didn't mention whether your exhaust fans had an
> unobstructed airway nor their size. Just blowing in on the
> card leaves the other variable of the rate at which the
> exhaust air is expelled from the case, which also effects
> the intake air rate.
>
> Keep in mind that no matter what card you buy (assuming a
> gaming card from ATI or nVidia) you still have the option of
> underclocking it, including your present card. IIRC, it
> should offer the ability to reduce the 2D GPU clock speed
> while leaving the 3D speed higher, but I think it keeps the
> memory speed constant in both 2D and 3D. Since what you had
> mentioned was 2D noise, you might find that underclocking it
> by as much as possible has no significant effect on 2D uses,
> but a direct linear reduction in heat. Whether that would
> be enough to throttle back the fan I cannot say, in a good
> design it would but video card tech evolves so quickly which
> such short product lifecycles that nothing has much of a
> chance to mature before it is obsolete.
>
> On second thought I know what you need:
>
> 1) Camping tent
> 2) 1 roll duct tape
> 3) Portable air conditioner
>
> Put yourself and 1/2 the A/C in the tent, duct tape off all
> the seams and gaps. That way you stay cool too, without
> paying for whole house cooling. Let others in the tent for
> small favors or charge admission. ;-)

The Zalman seems to run just about the same as the original cooler. I
don't know the specs on this card as far as if it is over clocked or
not, but I don't think it is. The air coming from the cooler does feel
warm.

The current fan will run at a slower speed if nothing is going on, but
many things do cause it to increase it's speed. One thing I noticed
when beta testing Vista, the card ran at a fast fan speed all the time,
because Vista works it harder.

I noticed ASUS has a non-fan cooled card. I wouldn't think that would
be very efficient, unless there was some type of airflow over it. And I
think you might be right about the new design because all those fans
appear to be very small and can't move a lot of air without high speeds.

Thanks,
Clark

Clark wrote:

> I currently have an GeForce 6800 GT. The cooling fan seems to run at a
> high rate most of the time in the summer. Does anyone know if the newer
> PCI cards, 8s or 9s, are designed to run a little cooler thereby
> reducing the need for higher fan speeds? I am about to build a new
> computer and would like a little more quiet when not actually playing a
> game.
>
> I know I could cool this one better and cut the noise, but the new
> computer will be running in the same conditions as this one. Possibly
> there is a trade off between core clock or memory clock speed and
> cooling, so a card with a little slower core clock or memory clock might
> be quieter.
>
> Thanks,
> Clark

what is the temp of your GeForce 6800 GT

i have a Nvidia asus EN7600GS silent card IE no cooling fan at idle it's
about 50.00C room temp 24C

darklight wrote:
> Clark wrote:
>
>> I currently have an GeForce 6800 GT. The cooling fan seems to run at a
>> high rate most of the time in the summer. Does anyone know if the newer
>> PCI cards, 8s or 9s, are designed to run a little cooler thereby
>> reducing the need for higher fan speeds? I am about to build a new
>> computer and would like a little more quiet when not actually playing a
>> game.
>>
>> I know I could cool this one better and cut the noise, but the new
>> computer will be running in the same conditions as this one. Possibly
>> there is a trade off between core clock or memory clock speed and
>> cooling, so a card with a little slower core clock or memory clock might
>> be quieter.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Clark
>
> what is the temp of your GeForce 6800 GT
>
> i have a Nvidia asus EN7600GS silent card IE no cooling fan at idle it's
> about 50.00C room temp 24C

I don't really know the temp of the card. The ambient temp is about 80F
or 26.7C. The card is probably doing exactly what it is supposed to do.
That is why my original question was if the newer cards were designed
to run cooler. Maybe the additional memory and the heat it produces
would cancel out improvements in the GPU design.

When I narrow down what I want in the card as far as performance, I will
then look to see if there are differences in cooling effectiveness. I
haven't yet looked and the noise ratings, if there are some.

Thanks,
Clark

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 08:36:50 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
wrote:

>darklight wrote:
>> Clark wrote:
>>
>>> I currently have an GeForce 6800 GT. The cooling fan seems to run at a
>>> high rate most of the time in the summer. Does anyone know if the newer
>>> PCI cards, 8s or 9s, are designed to run a little cooler thereby
>>> reducing the need for higher fan speeds? I am about to build a new
>>> computer and would like a little more quiet when not actually playing a
>>> game.
>>>
>>> I know I could cool this one better and cut the noise, but the new
>>> computer will be running in the same conditions as this one. Possibly
>>> there is a trade off between core clock or memory clock speed and
>>> cooling, so a card with a little slower core clock or memory clock might
>>> be quieter.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Clark
>>
>> what is the temp of your GeForce 6800 GT
>>
>> i have a Nvidia asus EN7600GS silent card IE no cooling fan at idle it's
>> about 50.00C room temp 24C
>
>I don't really know the temp of the card. The ambient temp is about 80F
>or 26.7C.

I had thought you were talking about higher ambient than
that, the stock sink on many cards should do fine at 80F
providing the case has ample airflow.


>The card is probably doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

Maybe, or maybe not. 80F with a side panel fan pointed at
it should not result in (presumably, based on the noise
level issue) very high RPM. We're still left not knowing
what temp the card is in the 2D uses where the fan is judged
to be too loud.


> That is why my original question was if the newer cards were designed
>to run cooler. Maybe the additional memory and the heat it produces
>would cancel out improvements in the GPU design.

Today's memory doesn't run very hot, and is higher density
than in the past so there may not even be more chips on the
card. People used to put heatsinks on memory to keep it
cool enough to overclock a fair amount more but these days
unless the memory is overvolted through a card circuit
modification, seldom is the memory warm enough that adding a
heatsink makes much difference.

As always, a higher performing GPU will tend to have more
transistors, higher clockspeed, produce more heat. If you
again buy a higher-end card like the 6800GT was at a point
in the past, you will find it needs a better heatsink to
deal with the heat produced.

As mentioned above it is not clear exactly where the problem
lies with your current card, the fan should spin slower in
2D than in 3D since it lowers the GPU clockspeed in 2D and,
IIRC, also reduces the voltage in 2D.


>
>When I narrow down what I want in the card as far as performance, I will
>then look to see if there are differences in cooling effectiveness. I
>haven't yet looked and the noise ratings, if there are some.

Narrowing down what performance level and price range you
want is one of the most important factors. Next, look at
the various heatsink alternatives available for the GPU(s)
you are most interested in that meet the former
requirements. Taking the 9600GT as an example, it should
not be hard to keep it cool enough in 80F ambient temp room
with a side panel fan blowing on it if it has a passive
heatsink, unless your side panel fan is spinning pretty slow
and at a further distance than typical, due to having a
wider than average case. On a case of average width and a
full height video card you only have about 4 cm between the
back of a 1" thick fan mounted on the side panel, and the
edge of the video card. Maybe even less clearance as some
with passive heatsinks have their 'sink sticking out past
the edge of the video card.

kony wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 08:36:50 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
> wrote:
>
>> darklight wrote:
>>> Clark wrote:
>>>
>>>> I currently have an GeForce 6800 GT. The cooling fan seems to run at a
>>>> high rate most of the time in the summer. Does anyone know if the newer
>>>> PCI cards, 8s or 9s, are designed to run a little cooler thereby
>>>> reducing the need for higher fan speeds? I am about to build a new
>>>> computer and would like a little more quiet when not actually playing a
>>>> game.
>>>>
>>>> I know I could cool this one better and cut the noise, but the new
>>>> computer will be running in the same conditions as this one. Possibly
>>>> there is a trade off between core clock or memory clock speed and
>>>> cooling, so a card with a little slower core clock or memory clock might
>>>> be quieter.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Clark
>>> what is the temp of your GeForce 6800 GT
>>>
>>> i have a Nvidia asus EN7600GS silent card IE no cooling fan at idle it's
>>> about 50.00C room temp 24C
>> I don't really know the temp of the card. The ambient temp is about 80F
>> or 26.7C.
>
> I had thought you were talking about higher ambient than
> that, the stock sink on many cards should do fine at 80F
> providing the case has ample airflow.
>
>
>> The card is probably doing exactly what it is supposed to do.
>
> Maybe, or maybe not. 80F with a side panel fan pointed at
> it should not result in (presumably, based on the noise
> level issue) very high RPM. We're still left not knowing
> what temp the card is in the 2D uses where the fan is judged
> to be too loud.
>
>
>> That is why my original question was if the newer cards were designed
>> to run cooler. Maybe the additional memory and the heat it produces
>> would cancel out improvements in the GPU design.
>
> Today's memory doesn't run very hot, and is higher density
> than in the past so there may not even be more chips on the
> card. People used to put heatsinks on memory to keep it
> cool enough to overclock a fair amount more but these days
> unless the memory is overvolted through a card circuit
> modification, seldom is the memory warm enough that adding a
> heatsink makes much difference.
>
> As always, a higher performing GPU will tend to have more
> transistors, higher clockspeed, produce more heat. If you
> again buy a higher-end card like the 6800GT was at a point
> in the past, you will find it needs a better heatsink to
> deal with the heat produced.
>
> As mentioned above it is not clear exactly where the problem
> lies with your current card, the fan should spin slower in
> 2D than in 3D since it lowers the GPU clockspeed in 2D and,
> IIRC, also reduces the voltage in 2D.
>
>
>> When I narrow down what I want in the card as far as performance, I will
>> then look to see if there are differences in cooling effectiveness. I
>> haven't yet looked and the noise ratings, if there are some.
>
> Narrowing down what performance level and price range you
> want is one of the most important factors. Next, look at
> the various heatsink alternatives available for the GPU(s)
> you are most interested in that meet the former
> requirements. Taking the 9600GT as an example, it should
> not be hard to keep it cool enough in 80F ambient temp room
> with a side panel fan blowing on it if it has a passive
> heatsink, unless your side panel fan is spinning pretty slow
> and at a further distance than typical, due to having a
> wider than average case. On a case of average width and a
> full height video card you only have about 4 cm between the
> back of a 1" thick fan mounted on the side panel, and the
> edge of the video card. Maybe even less clearance as some
> with passive heatsinks have their 'sink sticking out past
> the edge of the video card.

Airflow may still be a slight problem for me. I notice if I take the
side panel off and leave it sitting next to the system, the fan seems to
slow down quicker after gaming.

It also seems to me, just because the direction the coolers blow the hot
air, there is an area in the case where hot air can stagnate and not
move as much as the area of the case above the video card (between the
card and power supply). My case has rear vents below the video card,
but no fan to pull the hot air out. That was one reason I thought
possibly having a card that accomplished that action might help. I
might try reversing the side fan to pull air away from that area rather
than blow into it.

The card has been running fine for several years, so it has not
overheated enough to cause damage, just a little irritating. I suppose
the only way to know for sure would be to get a new card and try it.

Thanks for the input,
Clark

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 07:44:22 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
wrote:


>Airflow may still be a slight problem for me. I notice if I take the
>side panel off and leave it sitting next to the system, the fan seems to
>slow down quicker after gaming.

While 80F isn't terribly hot, it is warm enough that a few
case elements should be *in place*. All intake fans should
have open airways, not mounted on stamped-out metal grills.
Tubular grills are generally ok, their typical design
doesn't impede airflow much. Same with the exhaust fans, on
many cases the exhaust fan airway is a stamped out grill and
needs to be cut out for best results. Some cases are now
better than others having very thin portions of metal
remaining, you will have to judge this yourself.

A 92mm or larger rear fan, plus PSU fan, plus an intake fan
should be sufficient to keep the system cool. A front
intake fan would be a desirable addition to that since
having the side panel fan reduces the amount of air pulled
in through the front, flowing through the drive rack.


>
>It also seems to me, just because the direction the coolers blow the hot
>air, there is an area in the case where hot air can stagnate and not
>move as much as the area of the case above the video card (between the
>card and power supply).

I don't understand how you could possibly have any stagnant
area under the video card if you have a side panel fan
mounted there blowing under the video card.

In a previous post I had also mentioned leaving the adjacent
(PCI or PCIe, etc) card slot empty under the card, and leave
that slot's corresponding rear case bracket cover off of the
system, which will move more air past the card (most helpful
when someone doesn't have the side panel fan blowing on the
card, but still can't hurt with the side panel fan).


>My case has rear vents below the video card,
>but no fan to pull the hot air out.


I don't understand what you mean. What make and model of
case? It could help a lot of we had a (linked) good picture
of the side and rear, if you have added a side fan by
cutting a hole yourself then a picture if your case would
help most, or if it is otherwise stock then merely the same
model of case or a near-twin (some manufacturers may have
same case design just changing the shape or color of the
front plastic bezel).


>That was one reason I thought
>possibly having a card that accomplished that action might help. I
>might try reversing the side fan to pull air away from that area rather
>than blow into it.

Even with a case that has otherwise poor airflow, a side
panel fan blowing in usually does a good job of cooling a
card. However, we still don't know what temp the card is in
this state where the fan is too loud. Can you look in
Display Properties and get a temp reading with both the side
panel on (and fan too loud) and another reading with side
panel off and fan throttled back to an acceptible level?

I suppose I should mention what are probably obvious things
too, that I'd assume you had already checked that the card
heatsink didn't have much if any dust buildup, and that the
fan was in good operational state, not wearing down the
bearing to the point where it is louder than it ought to be
at any RPM. If it is a sleeve bearing fan, I like to
periodically lube those to extend their life. Actually I
prefer to just swap out the stock heatsink and fan for
something else but I usually reuse some small CPU heatsink
from socket 370 as I somehow managed to end up with a ton of
them.


>
>The card has been running fine for several years, so it has not
>overheated enough to cause damage, just a little irritating. I suppose
>the only way to know for sure would be to get a new card and try it.

yes, that is one alternative. If you buy from someplace
with a good return policy like Newegg, you will have no
return hassles and might only have to pay a return shipping
fee. I don't know if they would insist on a restocking fee
because you felt a card was too loud, BUT if the card is
advertised as low noise or a certain decibel level and does
not live up to that, I don't feel they could rightly charge
you a restocking fee for what might be considered
*defective* in not meeting it's specs.

kony wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 07:44:22 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
> wrote:
>
> I suppose I should mention what are probably obvious things
> too, that I'd assume you had already checked that the card
> heatsink didn't have much if any dust buildup, and that the
> fan was in good operational state, not wearing down the
> bearing to the point where it is louder than it ought to be
> at any RPM. If it is a sleeve bearing fan, I like to
> periodically lube those to extend their life. Actually I
> prefer to just swap out the stock heatsink and fan for
> something else but I usually reuse some small CPU heatsink
> from socket 370 as I somehow managed to end up with a ton of
> them.

I do clean the case and make sure there is no dust buildup on the
leading edges of the fan blades. The case is only a year old and the
fans seem fine.
>
> have open airways, not mounted on stamped-out metal grills.
> Tubular grills are generally ok, their typical design
> doesn't impede airflow much.

I just took the grille out last night. Seems to help some.

> I don't understand how you could possibly have any stagnant
> area under the video card if you have a side panel fan
> mounted there blowing under the video card.

The area to which I refer will not allow for unimpeded airflow. The
other cards, the direction the air comes off the video card and the
direction the side fan blows does not make for an efficient cooling
path. I believe I would need a fan blowing rearward near the front end
and below the video card. If there was a place to mount a fan on the
rear vents, I might do that, but there isn't enough room. All this goes
back to why I feel the rear exhaust cards might help. And I am just
assuming they exhaust air externally and not pull it in and exhaust
internally.

Thanks for the input, you have given me several things to consider.
When I get the new card, I will post back.

Clark

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:58:07 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
wrote:


>The area to which I refer will not allow for unimpeded airflow. The
>other cards, the direction the air comes off the video card and the
>direction the side fan blows does not make for an efficient cooling
>path. I believe I would need a fan blowing rearward near the front end
>and below the video card. If there was a place to mount a fan on the
>rear vents, I might do that, but there isn't enough room. All this goes
>back to why I feel the rear exhaust cards might help. And I am just
>assuming they exhaust air externally and not pull it in and exhaust
>internally.


A card that exhausts out the rear will help reduce the
amount of heat circulating through the system, but usually
that type of card is as loud or louder because of the type
of fan needed to produce good flow in such designs is
different and requiring higher RPM.

If you feel your side panel fan is not in the right place,
you might consider adding a 2nd side panel fan, and/or
remove the current one, put a cover over the hole and reuse
it in a more optimal place. The nice thing about side-panel
fan additions is the panel comes off so you don't have to
strip down the system, a hole can be traced using the fan as
a template, cut out with a sabre saw or similar, rough edges
filed (if necessary) and sanded smooth, corresponding
mounting holes drilled. A cheap easy way to finish off the
hole is put automotive plastic door edge-guard stripping
around it. When it's heated with a hair dryer it becomes
more flexible to fit in a circular shape and if held there
till it cools the adhesive strip in it holds on fairly well.
Costs about $3 for 4 times the length necessary of thin
black type, though prices may vary.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:58:07 -0500, Clark <who@whoknows.com>
wrote:


>The area to which I refer will not allow for unimpeded airflow. The
>other cards, the direction the air comes off the video card and the
>direction the side fan blows does not make for an efficient cooling
>path. I believe I would need a fan blowing rearward near the front end
>and below the video card. If there was a place to mount a fan on the
>rear vents, I might do that, but there isn't enough room. All this goes
>back to why I feel the rear exhaust cards might help. And I am just
>assuming they exhaust air externally and not pull it in and exhaust
>internally.
>
>Thanks for the input, you have given me several things to consider.
>When I get the new card, I will post back.
>
>Clark

Here are a couple more links that might be useful, one
showing average performance per dollar (though sale and
rebated prices make this harder to nail down over time),

http://techreport.com/articles.x/14686/9

and one showing idle heat (but remember, even a card
creating less heat can have too small a heatsink plus a
higher RPM fan on it if they cheaped out on the cooler).


http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59023

Since I prefer nVidia's drivers, if I were in your place I'd
get 9600GT and if it were really necessary, underclock it's
2D GPU speed since you'd seldom if ever notice slower GPU in
2D uses.

The heatsink on the following Palit 9600GT looks pretty
nice, if you wanted to shoot for the lowest noise possible
on a card with a fan you could strap a larger, lower RPM fan
to the 'sink, maybe 80mm x 15-20mm thick by 2000 RPM (lower
than 2000 RPM being quieter, but keeping in mind that the
fan control circuit would usually be throttling the fan
below this RPM) in place of the existing fan (though I mean
a thicker fan and it would sit up higher on the sink too, so
that's require another empty motherboard slot under the
video card which some people can spare but others not.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/14168/2