On 13 Apr, 22:46, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
> On 13 Apr 2007 06:02:07 -0700, "jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk"
>
> <jameshanle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >In my toshiba satellite pro laptop P4-M 1.9GHz,
>
> >it easily gets to the temperature of 50, idling [1]
>
> Ok, but what is the point?
> 50C is not too hot.
> Idle temp doesn't matter.
>
It was a statement of fact that is relevant to what I continue to say!
> Use the laptop in the highest (reasonable) ambient temp you
> expect to encounter (nothing unusual, we can't expect use
> stranded in a desert, for example) at full load for at least
> several minutes continuous. Use that temp to make a
> determination of whether it's too hot.
>
well, I don't want to argue why I mention the fact of idle temperature
- yet. But I will.
> >It appears from the intel processor spec search - processorspecfinder
> >site that many of the P4-M processors run at TDP of 80W. But all the
> >(4) P4-M 1.9GHz processors have TDP of 30W
>
> >Wouldn't this make my P4-M processor run cooler than the rest?
>
> No, it means it produces less heat.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> "Cooler" running
> depends on how effective the cooling subsystem is at
> removing the heat, IOW the heatsink and chassis airflow (or
> with laptops, air intake and exhaust through the chamber
> around the heatsink or heatpipe and fan).
>
i'm assuming the "same laptop". Just different processor.
>
>
> >Yet it still reaches 50+ and the fan goes on.. When idling.
>
> Well it is a P4. It is a laptop. Maybe there's some dust
> that needs cleaned out, but otherwise nothing seems unusual.
>
>
My point is then, if my P4M 1.9GHz has a TDP of 30W and a temp of 50+
idling. Then would the other P4Ms, the bulk of them, that have TDP
80W, reach a much higher temp?
What kind of temp in the same laptop?
>
> >It's a toshiba, well made.
>
> Define well made. If there were a need for it to be cooler,
> and it couldn't keep it cool enough, it wouldn't be so well
> made would it? However, thus far we don't have any
> indication of overheating at 50C, but as mentioned above the
> full load temp would have to be taken and considered.
>
Well, that statment that the toshiba was well made was the first
sentence of a paragraph saying that I am running it on glass or wood.
A hard surface. (So, not a bed). And by well made, I meant that it
doesn't blow fan out the bottom. And the only reason I mentioned
about how I run the laptop and that it is well made, was incase you
suggested xyz(e.g. incase you said "no, it's not too hot, but if
you're running it on your bed, then ). This is a logic issue, i'm
more interested in the technical issue than you rethinking what the
problem is.. I'd like to get the technical addressed, if possible,
first.
> 50C is not too hot for any desktop or laptop CPU... but any,
> all of them need the full load temp considered, not idle
> temp.
>
I'm just asking about idle temp (for whatever reason e.g. at the
moment).
My point is, my P4M CPU 1.9GHz has TDP of 30W, the ones of other GHz,
have TDP of 90W.
So, in the same laptop, do you think the others would need a more
powerful fan / would likely be noisier machine.
> >I'm not blocking the air vents. I'm running
> >it on a hard surface. Glass or Wood surface on the table. It's not
> >trying to blow air under the laptop so tilting the laptop won't help
> >much.
>
> >I'm also wondering if the core 2 duos reach that temp when idling.. I
> >was hoping that maybe the fan wouldn't go on or would be completely
> >inaudible - at least when idling.
>
> If the fan doesn't turn on or is slow enough to be
> inaudible, that raises CPU temp even more.
>
I'm not asking that.. Obviously a fan that doesn't turn on will raise
CPU temp.
My point is that I recall that a core 2 duo has a TDP of about 30W..
So in the same toshiba laptop case as mine, i.e. the same cooling
system that I have, do you think it'd probably idle at around 50 too?
Do you think that other P4Ms (80W ones) in that laptop would idle at
much higher temperatures at the fan speed that I have.. (my processor
is a 30W P4M)
Most people say that a P4M is not really a mobile CPU, that the mobile
thing is a gimmick, that they consume as much power as a P4.
Well this doesn't appear to be the case if the TDP is 30W. The 1.9GHz
P4Ms have a TDP of 30W
> Laptops are a tradeoff, allowing a bit higher temp to lower
> the noise. There is a limit in how big the fan and heatsink
> can be so they deliberately use a lower heat CPU to offset
> this, ideally - though some cheaper laptops had used regular
> higher heat desktop CPUs, and should be avoided in general
> unless it is known to be cool "enough" running.
>
> If you wanted a laptop with lowest noise you could seek
> notebook reviews, since the reviewer has enough exposure to
> relatively rate the noise, and then with that line of
> laptops optimally configured for low noise you would choose
> the lowest model CPU that it can run, since within a given
> family of CPU, lower speed directly relates to lower heat.
>
I'm not asking for advice like that on how to choose a quiet laptop.
It's subjective. The silent ones I've noticed have been by chance..
I'd have to try a laptop before buying it.. Or perhaps somehow get
more technical with laptops and cooling and modify the heatsink
somehow, but that's really not the issue..
> The other factor you didn't mention is whether the temp or
> noise level has changed (from when it was newer), but you
> must also consider whether the ambient temp is same- since a
> higher ambient directly causes higher CPU temp as well.
>
irrelevant to me. I'm not modifying the central heating to keep my
laptop a few degrees cooler. Whatever the ambient temperature is is
what it is, it's a given. Yes, I know it prob affects it - to some
extent.
>
>
> >[1]
> >irrelevant note about how I measured
> >(i've monitored load, it is lower when AC adaptor plugged in. I used
> >speedswitchxp, notebook hardware control, speedfan. They show 0-5% or
> >< 13% cpu load.. I also tried the software cpuidle putting cpu
> >"under 100% load" but running that. Perhaps similar to idling I think.
> >Within about 15 or 20min of idling it reached from 42 to 50. I cooled
> >it to 42 by setting the fan on/up with speedfan)
>
> Since laptops often are an attempt to squeeze as much as
> possible into a tiny space, you will often find that no
> matter what CPU is used, they will tend to leverage that
> heat level to plan cooling subsystems, IOW if the CPUs it
> can use produce less heat it may not have as effective a
> cooling subsystem and you will still end up with it running
> the fan at load, they assume you want this to save a bit of
> space I suppose. Pity they don't take a lesson from "quiet
> PC" advocates and use slightly larger fans at lower RPMs,
> which would also reduce wear but have only minor weight
> increase. I can't recall the last time I cared if the
> laptop was 4 mm taller or shorter, actually I would prefer
> it thicker so it was more durable (all else equal) and had a
> larger battery compartment to allow for higher capacity
> cells, longer runtime (if only they would, it seems a rare
> luxury to have a laptop run for a mere 8 hours on battery
> power).
A friend had an IBM X22 , there are many subtypes. But his one had a
metal surface, it got EXTREMELY hot, too hot to touch even.. I don't
know what his temperatures were like but the laptop seemed to last.
It was dead silent.. I was googling about cool surface for laptop,
and found a product "lapinator"
http://www.lapinator.com/ , which, if
no fan, would have made a beautiful silent solution with that laptop.
The main point in my post is a technical one
Comparison between temp of my TDP 30W P4M 1.9GHz , and other P4Ms, TDP
80W. (assuming same fan, same laptop case even of couse)
And comparing AGAIN, same laptop case, same ambient temperature..
*OBVIOUSLY*.. The core2duo with the my P4M, I think the TDP are
similar.
Another reason why I say assume same case, is because I think my
toshiba is well made. Toshiba usually are, If I knew of a better case
i'd look into laptops with a better design.
I actually think that the fan is off when the temp is below 50. If
that's possible.. I can't hear it at all.. When I tell speedfan to
make the fan higher, it's completely inaudible then once speedfan is
set to 50% fan speed, the fan becomes very audible. The fan speed
doesn't step up.
My hope is that if it were true that the P4M runs HOT then , given
that it prob idles at 52 or so, or gets to that easily.. Then a
processor that runs cooler will obviously idle lower. If it were true
that the P4M doesn't even deserve to be called a mobile processor,
that the core2duo is much cooler, then I'd have more luck with a
core2duo (obviously i'd wait till the price drops though!).. However,
since my P4M is 30W, I'm thinking maybe it is releatively cool and
does deserve to be called mobile. Though I then wonder if other P4Ms
at 80W require much louder fans. (I know that 40s is good for idling
on a P4 northwood, and perhaps 50s on a P4 prescott were an uninformed
person to get one. I don't know what a typical temp is for a P4M like
mine is compared to the other wattage)
I'm going round in BIG circles here. You avoided the question by
trying to rethink and guess at what my 'problem' was! It's a technical
question. Your telling me what you're telling me is very good - though
it's not new to me - and besides, I'd rather it was after the
technical question is addressed.
P4M temperature and TDP/watts 
Linear Mode
