Please help diagnose my computer problems

Hi guys

My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems
started. When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
(video card, processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All
the hardware gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens.
The screen remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my
HD in another computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure
its not the HD. Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU
is a common problem after doing some research but all the fans are
spinning and all hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with
whatever feedback.
Thanks in advance guys!!

xsean415@gmail.com wrote:

>Hi guys
>
>My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems
>started. When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
>(video card, processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All
>the hardware gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens.
>The screen remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my
>HD in another computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure
>its not the HD. Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU
>is a common problem after doing some research but all the fans are
>spinning and all hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with
>whatever feedback.
>Thanks in advance guys!!

Checking the battery might help -

On Jun 24, 10:40 pm, Habib <Habib@...> wrote:
> xsean...@gmail.com wrote:
> >Hi guys
>
> >My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems
> >started. When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
> >(video card, processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All
> >the hardware gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens.
> >The screen remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my
> >HD in another computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure
> >its not the HD. Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU
> >is a common problem after doing some research but all the fans are
> >spinning and all hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with
> >whatever feedback.
> >Thanks in advance guys!!
>
> Checking the battery might help -

I replaced the battery as well and symptoms are still the same

xsean415@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems
> started. When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
> (video card, processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All
> the hardware gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens.
> The screen remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my
> HD in another computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure
> its not the HD. Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU
> is a common problem after doing some research but all the fans are
> spinning and all hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with
> whatever feedback.

The general way to diagnose this problem...

First, reduce the system to the simplest state:
a) A video card, or onboard video if you have it
b) Minimum amount of memory that is a legitimate
configuration for your mainboard
c) A hard drive or optical drive
d) keyboard + mouse
e) a monitor
f) No other cards, USB devices, hard drives,
optical drives, tape drives, etc.

While you're doing this, make an inspection of your mainboard. Are
there obvious failures in any of the components? Are any capacitors
domed or vented?

If the problem goes away, add bits in, one at a time, until you find the
culprit.

If the problem is still in your minimum system, start replacing elements
with known good versions, or verify them in another system. This not
only includes power supplies, ram and video cards, but also cables.

If you still can't find the problem, then you can start to suspect the
mainboard or the processor. (Probably the mainboard.)

xsean415@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems
> started. When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
> (video card, processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All
> the hardware gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens.
> The screen remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my
> HD in another computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure
> its not the HD. Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU
> is a common problem after doing some research but all the fans are
> spinning and all hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with
> whatever feedback.
> Thanks in advance guys!!
>

One thing I'd add, to the "minimal hardware configuration" testing,
is doing "beep tests".

The computer may have a computer case speaker or a piezoelectric buzzer
mounted on the motherboard. For modern boards, the scheme would be, in
the event of hardware trouble, the CPU "beeps" the speaker, with an
error code, according to what is wrong.

For the CPU to beep the speaker, the CPU executes some BIOS code,
and uses the speaker interface, somewhere on the chipset or SuperIO
chip. In fact, beeping proves that a large amount of stuff on the
motherboard is working.

Two things the motherboard really needs, is a video card and the sticks
of RAM. It will beep a different code when each one is missing. So
if you stripped the machine down to motherboard, CPU + cooling fan, power
supply, computer case and speaker, power supply, that would be a very
minimal configuration, suitable for beeping the speaker. If you hear the speaker
beep, then the CPU still works, and power is probably OK.

A complete lack of beeps, after doing the test, means the CPU was not
able to execute code. Since CPUs seldom fail, if you're getting no beeps,
it might be the motherboard.

If you'd mentioned more details about the hardware (computer make/model or
motherboard make/model), some of the variations in the above test
procedure, could have been taken into account.

A stuck reset switch can also silence the computer. So take careful note
of where it plugs in, then disconnect it, and see if the symptoms remain.
Some switches are so cheap, that they can fail in the ON or the OFF position.

Paul

On Jun 25, 1:44 am, xsean...@gmail.com wrote:
> I replaced the battery as well and symptoms are still the same- Hide quoted text -

So you fixed something that was not broken. It underlines that you
violated how problems are solved - "Follow the evidence".

Your power supply 'system' could have always been defective. A
defective power supply can still boot a computer. Today it just got a
little more defective. A power 'system' can spin fans and light
lights - and still be defective.

What would have detected a defect maybe months ago? Same thing that
will elicit useful replies here - the numbers. Best start with a 3.5
digit multimeter (a tool so ubiquitous as to be sold even in Kmart).
For example, was the battery defective? Without removing it, battery
was measured with a meter. Well, a defective battery replaced with a
new one could have left other problems. But now we don't know. You
replaced an unknown battery with a new (and also unknown) battery.
Always collect facts before replacing things.

Moving on, a meter must measure critical voltages on any one of
orange, red, purple, and yellow wires from power supply. Also
summarized in:
http://snipr.com/2obcb
Currently your entire power supply 'system' (yes a 'system' is more
than just a power supply) is unknown. Unknown means nothing has been
accomplished. Accomplishment starts when the 'system' is either
'definitively good' or 'definitively defective'. Only then has
something useful been accomplished. And only then can those who have
extensive knowledge reply with something more than speculation.

You replaced at battery only on speculation. Does a legacy defect
from a defective battery remain? By not measuring the battery before
replacing it, we don't know. Shotgunning - replacing parts using
speculation - is not how things get fixed quickly, the first time, and
for less money. Use the meter. Numbers are necessary to elicit
replies from those who actually know this stuff; to obtain an answer
that fixes it the first time. Did you know about other components in
the power supply ‘system’? Again, only some know this stuff. Others
will just swap parts (ie battery, power supply, motherboard, memory,
etc) until it appears to work - shotgunning. Shotgunning is a
complete opposite of "follow the evidence".

Minimal hardware test (and resulting beep codes) are performed AFTER
critical data is collected. If your problem is a power supply system,
meter will identify it quickly. Minimal hardware test will not detect
that problem AND can cause a defective power supply to suddenly boot
the system. So was it the removed hardware - or the defective
supply? Before removing anything, always first collect facts -
especially the numbers.

On Jun 25, 7:11 pm, w_tom <w_t...@usa.net> wrote:
> On Jun 25, 1:44 am, xsean...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I replaced the battery as well and symptoms are still the same- Hide quoted text -
>
> So you fixed something that was not broken. It underlines that you
> violated how problems are solved - "Follow the evidence".
>
> Your power supply 'system' could have always been defective. A
> defective power supply can still boot a computer. Today it just got a
> little more defective. A power 'system' can spin fans and light
> lights - and still be defective.
>
> What would have detected a defect maybe months ago? Same thing that
> will elicit useful replies here - the numbers. Best start with a 3.5
> digit multimeter (a tool so ubiquitous as to be sold even in Kmart).
> For example, was the battery defective? Without removing it, battery
> was measured with a meter. Well, a defective battery replaced with a
> new one could have left other problems. But now we don't know. You
> replaced an unknown battery with a new (and also unknown) battery.
> Always collect facts before replacing things.
>
> Moving on, a meter must measure critical voltages on any one of
> orange, red, purple, and yellow wires from power supply. Also
> summarized in:
> http://snipr.com/2obcb
> Currently your entire power supply 'system' (yes a 'system' is more
> than just a power supply) is unknown. Unknown means nothing has been
> accomplished. Accomplishment starts when the 'system' is either
> 'definitively good' or 'definitively defective'. Only then has
> something useful been accomplished. And only then can those who have
> extensive knowledge reply with something more than speculation.
>
> You replaced at battery only on speculation. Does a legacy defect
> from a defective battery remain? By not measuring the battery before
> replacing it, we don't know. Shotgunning - replacing parts using
> speculation - is not how things get fixed quickly, the first time, and
> for less money. Use the meter. Numbers are necessary to elicit
> replies from those who actually know this stuff; to obtain an answer
> that fixes it the first time. Did you know about other components in
> the power supply ‘system’? Again, only some know this stuff. Others
> will just swap parts (ie battery, power supply, motherboard, memory,
> etc) until it appears to work - shotgunning. Shotgunning is a
> complete opposite of "follow the evidence".
>
> Minimal hardware test (and resulting beep codes) are performed AFTER
> critical data is collected. If your problem is a power supply system,
> meter will identify it quickly. Minimal hardware test will not detect
> that problem AND can cause a defective power supply to suddenly boot
> the system. So was it the removed hardware - or the defective
> supply? Before removing anything, always first collect facts -
> especially the numbers.

Wow guys tank you for all the input. I will take your advice and buy
the digit multimeter before i start buying random parts.
I will post the all the numbers as soon as I come back from the store
tonight and do the tests. Again thank you everyone for the detailed
information!!!!!!!!!

xsean415@gmail.com wrote:

>Hi guys
>
>My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems
>started. When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
>(video card, processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All
>the hardware gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens.
>The screen remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my
>HD in another computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure
>its not the HD. Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU
>is a common problem after doing some research but all the fans are
>spinning and all hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with
>whatever feedback.
>Thanks in advance guys!!

Sometimes I have the same problem when a USB device is on at boot time. For
example if I forget to shut down a USB printer when I shut down the computer and
go home. Next morning when I come back and turn the PC on I get a blank screen.
Turning of the printer and rebooting solves the problem.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:23:40 -0700, xsean415 thoughfully wrote:

> Hi guys
>
> My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems started.
> When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning (video card,
> processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All the hardware
> gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens. The screen
> remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my HD in another
> computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure its not the HD.
> Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU is a common
> problem after doing some research but all the fans are spinning and all
> hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with whatever feedback.
> Thanks in advance guys!!

The last time that happened it was the power supply. Lights fans but no
action. It's was running, you replaced the battery that leaves the
video, memory or psu. It's very rare the cpu fails on a running
machine. If it was the hd your machine would show the bios screens
before booting.

Video is easy to test. Minimal means no hard drives, but basically if you
remove the video card and you don't get any beeps its not the video. A
better test is to try booting with another working video card. Same
applies for memory, if you have alternate trying just one.

I don't know any quick and dirty to test the psu. So, you need to rule
out everything until you can boot.

On Jun 26, 1:14*am, jaster <jas...@home.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:23:40 -0700, xsean415 thoughfully wrote:
> > Hi guys
>
> > My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems started..
> > When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning (video card,
> > processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All the hardware
> > gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens. The screen
> > remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my HD in another
> > computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure its not the HD.
> > Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU is a common
> > problem after doing some research but all the fans are spinning and all
> > hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with whatever feedback.
> > Thanks in advance guys!!
>
> The last time that happened it was the power supply. *Lights fans but no
> action. *It's was running, you replaced the battery that leaves the
> video, memory or psu. * It's very rare the cpu fails on a running
> machine. *If it was the hd your machine would show the bios screens
> before booting.
>
> Video is easy to test. Minimal means no hard drives, but basically if you
> remove the video card and you don't get any beeps its not the video. *A
> better test is to try booting with another working video card. * Same
> applies for memory, if you have alternate trying just one. *
>
> I don't know any quick and dirty to test the psu. So, you need to rule
> out everything until you can boot.

When I do boot the computer, I do get 1 beep which is normal I
presume. When I take out the videocard and power the PC, I get a long
beep, and the same goes when I take out the memory. Unfort. the store
I went to did not have a digit multimeter so I will be going to a
radioshack tonight after work to buy one....

I dont know if this could cause any problems but I used compressed air
to dust out all the gunk in the video card fan....could that have
caused a faulty video card?

Below are the specs of my PC

DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD
Motherboard - Retail
A-DATA 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory Model
ADBGC1A16 - Retail
EVGA 256-P2-N624-AR GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX Power Supply - Retail
AMD Opteron 170 Denmark 2.0GHz Socket 939 110W Dual-Core Processor
Model OSA170CDBOX - Retail

xsean415@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 26, 1:14 am, jaster <jas...@home.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:23:40 -0700, xsean415 thoughfully wrote:
>>> Hi guys
>>> My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems started.
>>> When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning (video card,
>>> processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All the hardware
>>> gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens. The screen
>>> remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my HD in another
>>> computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure its not the HD.
>>> Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU is a common
>>> problem after doing some research but all the fans are spinning and all
>>> hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with whatever feedback.
>>> Thanks in advance guys!!
>> The last time that happened it was the power supply. Lights fans but no
>> action. It's was running, you replaced the battery that leaves the
>> video, memory or psu. It's very rare the cpu fails on a running
>> machine. If it was the hd your machine would show the bios screens
>> before booting.
>>
>> Video is easy to test. Minimal means no hard drives, but basically if you
>> remove the video card and you don't get any beeps its not the video. A
>> better test is to try booting with another working video card. Same
>> applies for memory, if you have alternate trying just one.
>>
>> I don't know any quick and dirty to test the psu. So, you need to rule
>> out everything until you can boot.
>
> When I do boot the computer, I do get 1 beep which is normal I
> presume. When I take out the videocard and power the PC, I get a long
> beep, and the same goes when I take out the memory. Unfort. the store
> I went to did not have a digit multimeter so I will be going to a
> radioshack tonight after work to buy one....
>
> I dont know if this could cause any problems but I used compressed air
> to dust out all the gunk in the video card fan....could that have
> caused a faulty video card?
>
> Below are the specs of my PC
>
> DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD
> Motherboard - Retail
> A-DATA 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory Model
> ADBGC1A16 - Retail
> EVGA 256-P2-N624-AR GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
> SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
> Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX Power Supply - Retail
> AMD Opteron 170 Denmark 2.0GHz Socket 939 110W Dual-Core Processor
> Model OSA170CDBOX - Retail

One beep is normal. Usually, for missing RAM or video, the pattern of
beeps would be more complicated, and the beep pattern would likely
repeat itself after a few seconds. Since you're getting beeps, some
of your computer is working.

I see a picture here. Is this the motherboard ?

http://www.tomshardware.se/moderkort...d-boardbig.jpg

http://us.dfi.com.tw/Upload/Product_...4%20SLI-D1.jpg

More info here, including a manual.

http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_prod...P%20UT&SITE=US

http://us.dfi.com.tw/Upload/Manual/l...0847505101.pdf

If the board really has SLI jumpers, as shown in the pictures, you
could try setting the jumpers to SLI mode. That wires the
two video slots in x8 and x8 mode. After the jumpers have
been changed, try the video card in the Primary slot and
then try the Secondary slot, and see if the symptoms change.

If a lane is blown on the interface, changing to SLI mode
may work around the blown lane. That is why I'm suggesting
trying it that way.

When moving the jumpers, use antistatic precautions. That means
a ground strap on your wrist, with the strap fastened to a ground
point on the chassis of the computer case. The reason for this,
is I suspect the Nvidia PCI Express slots are a bit sensitive
to static, included static electricity that can be generated
with compressed air stirring up a dust storm. Since you could come
in contact with PCI Express lane wiring, while moving the jumpers,
I'd want to be static-free while doing the jumper move.

If there is no improvement, by using SLI mode jumpering, you could
find a PCI video card, and install that in a PCI slot, to gain access
to the computer, and be able to boot it. That is, if the problem is just a
blown PCI Express slot.

To keep W_Tom happy, yes, it could be that the power source you plug
into the PCI Express connector on the right hand side of the card,
is bad. You could check for 12V on there, or use another connector
and cable from the PSU if one is available. But since you were
using compressed air, near the video card, I'm thinking static
electricity is involved.

http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIma...130-056-03.jpg

Paul

On Jun 26, 10:24*am, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> xsean...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jun 26, 1:14 am, jaster <jas...@home.net> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:23:40 -0700, xsean415 thoughfully wrote:
> >>> Hi guys
> >>> My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems started.
> >>> When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning (video card,
> >>> processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All the hardware
> >>> gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens. The screen
> >>> remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my HD in another
> >>> computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure its not the HD..
> >>> Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU is a common
> >>> problem after doing some research but all the fans are spinning and all
> >>> hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with whatever feedback.
> >>> Thanks in advance guys!!
> >> The last time that happened it was the power supply. *Lights fans but no
> >> action. *It's was running, you replaced the battery that leaves the
> >> video, memory or psu. * It's very rare the cpu fails on a running
> >> machine. *If it was the hd your machine would show the bios screens
> >> before booting.
>
> >> Video is easy to test. Minimal means no hard drives, but basically if you
> >> remove the video card and you don't get any beeps its not the video. *A
> >> better test is to try booting with another working video card. * Same
> >> applies for memory, if you have alternate trying just one. *
>
> >> I don't know any quick and dirty to test the psu. So, you need to rule
> >> out everything until you can boot.
>
> > When I do boot the computer, I do get 1 beep which is normal I
> > presume. When I take out the videocard and power the PC, I get a long
> > beep, and the same goes when I take out the memory. Unfort. the store
> > I went to did not have a digit multimeter so I will be going to a
> > radioshack tonight after work to buy one....
>
> > I dont know if this could cause any problems but I used compressed air
> > to dust out all the gunk in the video card fan....could that have
> > caused a faulty video card?
>
> > Below are the specs of my PC
>
> > DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD
> > Motherboard - Retail
> > A-DATA 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory Model
> > ADBGC1A16 - Retail
> > EVGA 256-P2-N624-AR GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
> > SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
> > Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX Power Supply - Retail
> > AMD Opteron 170 Denmark 2.0GHz Socket 939 110W Dual-Core Processor
> > Model OSA170CDBOX - Retail
>
> One beep is normal. Usually, for missing RAM or video, the pattern of
> beeps would be more complicated, and the beep pattern would likely
> repeat itself after a few seconds. Since you're getting beeps, some
> of your computer is working.
>
> I see a picture here. Is this the motherboard ?
>
> http://www.tomshardware.se/moderkort...t/20050513/ima...
>
> http://us.dfi.com.tw/Upload/Product_...4%20SLI-D1.jpg
>
> More info here, including a manual.
>
> http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_prod...us.jsp?PRODUCT...
>
> http://us.dfi.com.tw/Upload/Manual/l...0847505101.pdf
>
> If the board really has SLI jumpers, as shown in the pictures, you
> could try setting the jumpers to SLI mode. That wires the
> two video slots in x8 and x8 mode. After the jumpers have
> been changed, try the video card in the Primary slot and
> then try the Secondary slot, and see if the symptoms change.
>
> If a lane is blown on the interface, changing to SLI mode
> may work around the blown lane. That is why I'm suggesting
> trying it that way.
>
> When moving the jumpers, use antistatic precautions. That means
> a ground strap on your wrist, with the strap fastened to a ground
> point on the chassis of the computer case. The reason for this,
> is I suspect the Nvidia PCI Express slots are a bit sensitive
> to static, included static electricity that can be generated
> with compressed air stirring up a dust storm. Since you could come
> in contact with PCI Express lane wiring, while moving the jumpers,
> I'd want to be static-free while doing the jumper move.
>
> If there is no improvement, by using SLI mode jumpering, you could
> find a PCI video card, and install that in a PCI slot, to gain access
> to the computer, and be able to boot it. That is, if the problem is just a
> blown PCI Express slot.
>
> To keep W_Tom happy, yes, it could be that the power source you plug
> into the PCI Express connector on the right hand side of the card,
> is bad. You could check for 12V on there, or use another connector
> and cable from the PSU if one is available. But since you were
> using compressed air, near the video card, I'm thinking static
> electricity is involved.
>
> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIma...130-056-03.jpg
>
> * * Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you so much Paul and yes, that is my motherboard. I will try
that out and hopefully I will have some visibility on whats going on.

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Paul" typed:
> xsean415@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Jun 26, 1:14 am, jaster <jas...@home.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:23:40 -0700, xsean415 thoughfully wrote:
>>>> Hi guys
>>>> My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems
>>>> started. When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
>>>> (video card, processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting.
>>>> All the hardware gets power power but for whatever reason nothing
>>>> happens. The screen remains blank and the HD is not booting. I
>>>> tried using my HD in another computer and it was working perfectly
>>>> fine so I'm sure its not the HD. Could it be my Motherboard? I
>>>> understand that the PSU is a common problem after doing some
>>>> research but all the fans are spinning and all hardware is getting
>>>> power.. Please provide me with whatever feedback. Thanks in
>>>> advance guys!!
>>> The last time that happened it was the power supply. Lights fans
>>> but no action. It's was running, you replaced the battery that
>>> leaves the video, memory or psu. It's very rare the cpu fails on
>>> a running machine. If it was the hd your machine would show the
>>> bios screens before booting.
>>>
>>> Video is easy to test. Minimal means no hard drives, but basically
>>> if you remove the video card and you don't get any beeps its not
>>> the video. A better test is to try booting with another working
>>> video card. Same applies for memory, if you have alternate trying
>>> just one. I don't know any quick and dirty to test the psu. So, you need
>>> to
>>> rule out everything until you can boot.
>>
>> When I do boot the computer, I do get 1 beep which is normal I
>> presume. When I take out the videocard and power the PC, I get a long
>> beep, and the same goes when I take out the memory. Unfort. the store
>> I went to did not have a digit multimeter so I will be going to a
>> radioshack tonight after work to buy one....
>>
>> I dont know if this could cause any problems but I used compressed
>> air to dust out all the gunk in the video card fan....could that have
>> caused a faulty video card?
>>
>> Below are the specs of my PC
>>
>> DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD
>> Motherboard - Retail
>> A-DATA 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory Model
>> ADBGC1A16 - Retail
>> EVGA 256-P2-N624-AR GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express
>> x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
>> Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX Power Supply - Retail

Gods!

I wouldn't use that PSU on anything requiring more power than a basic Barton
system with a GeForce 4:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/332

"Our conclusion is pretty simple: don't buy this power supply."
--
Shaun.

DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)

>> AMD Opteron 170 Denmark 2.0GHz Socket 939 110W Dual-Core Processor
>> Model OSA170CDBOX - Retail
>
> One beep is normal. Usually, for missing RAM or video, the pattern of
> beeps would be more complicated, and the beep pattern would likely
> repeat itself after a few seconds. Since you're getting beeps, some
> of your computer is working.
>
> I see a picture here. Is this the motherboard ?
>
> http://www.tomshardware.se/moderkort...d-boardbig.jpg
>
> http://us.dfi.com.tw/Upload/Product_...4%20SLI-D1.jpg
>
> More info here, including a manual.
>
> http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_prod...P%20UT&SITE=US
>
> http://us.dfi.com.tw/Upload/Manual/l...0847505101.pdf
>
> If the board really has SLI jumpers, as shown in the pictures, you
> could try setting the jumpers to SLI mode. That wires the
> two video slots in x8 and x8 mode. After the jumpers have
> been changed, try the video card in the Primary slot and
> then try the Secondary slot, and see if the symptoms change.
>
> If a lane is blown on the interface, changing to SLI mode
> may work around the blown lane. That is why I'm suggesting
> trying it that way.
>
> When moving the jumpers, use antistatic precautions. That means
> a ground strap on your wrist, with the strap fastened to a ground
> point on the chassis of the computer case. The reason for this,
> is I suspect the Nvidia PCI Express slots are a bit sensitive
> to static, included static electricity that can be generated
> with compressed air stirring up a dust storm. Since you could come
> in contact with PCI Express lane wiring, while moving the jumpers,
> I'd want to be static-free while doing the jumper move.
>
> If there is no improvement, by using SLI mode jumpering, you could
> find a PCI video card, and install that in a PCI slot, to gain access
> to the computer, and be able to boot it. That is, if the problem is
> just a blown PCI Express slot.
>
> To keep W_Tom happy, yes, it could be that the power source you plug
> into the PCI Express connector on the right hand side of the card,
> is bad. You could check for 12V on there, or use another connector
> and cable from the PSU if one is available. But since you were
> using compressed air, near the video card, I'm thinking static
> electricity is involved.
>
> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIma...130-056-03.jpg
>
> Paul

"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:g40jbb$uj6$1@aioe.org...
>
> To keep W_Tom happy, yes, it could be that the power source you plug
> into the PCI Express connector on the right hand side of the card,
> is bad. You could check for 12V on there, or use another connector
> and cable from the PSU if one is available. But since you were
> using compressed air, near the video card, I'm thinking static
> electricity is involved.
>
> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIma...130-056-03.jpg
>
> Paul

Why try and keep W_Tom happy, his half baked ideas presented
as if there is some special understanding that only he has, is an
established pattern of his. I find it annoying even when he is
supporting a position I have taken.

This idea that there is a Power Supply "System" and that you can't
or shouldn't consider the PSU (Power Supply Unit) as a discrete
component, for troubleshooting purposes; is pure bunk. The average
user should never consider breaking down or attempting to work on
the parts that make up a PSU; or anything that W_Tom might be
calling the Power Supply System.

I don't consider those with surface mount experience and/or training
to be the average user, even the average experienced user. There are
those of us here with the equipment and training to replace the
occasional bad cap or burnt rectifier, but that is often as far as it goes.
What does W_Tom expect this OP to do if he were to isolate a
defective part in his "Power Supply System"? For most users under
most conditions, it would mean replacing the PSU.

Luck;
Ken

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:40:01 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
<kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
>"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:g40jbb$uj6$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> To keep W_Tom happy, yes, it could be that the power source you plug
>> into the PCI Express connector on the right hand side of the card,
>> is bad. You could check for 12V on there, or use another connector
>> and cable from the PSU if one is available. But since you were
>> using compressed air, near the video card, I'm thinking static
>> electricity is involved.
>>
>> http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIma...130-056-03.jpg
>>
>> Paul
>
> Why try and keep W_Tom happy, his half baked ideas presented
>as if there is some special understanding that only he has, is an
>established pattern of his. I find it annoying even when he is
>supporting a position I have taken.
>
> This idea that there is a Power Supply "System" and that you can't
>or shouldn't consider the PSU (Power Supply Unit) as a discrete
>component, for troubleshooting purposes; is pure bunk. The average
>user should never consider breaking down or attempting to work on
>the parts that make up a PSU; or anything that W_Tom might be
>calling the Power Supply System.
>
> I don't consider those with surface mount experience and/or training
>to be the average user, even the average experienced user. There are
>those of us here with the equipment and training to replace the
>occasional bad cap or burnt rectifier, but that is often as far as it goes.
>What does W_Tom expect this OP to do if he were to isolate a
>defective part in his "Power Supply System"? For most users under
>most conditions, it would mean replacing the PSU.


Regardless, more information is better than less. It is
always up to the reader to assess how much they can or
choose to apply, and sometimes attempting easier things
first before resorting to the more involved resolution
attempts. Further, the most inexperienced to average
experience users might be more apt to just take the PC to a
shop or replace it so we are dealing mostly with people
eager to learn more... and not only the person who posted
with an issue but for the benefit of future readers who may
have more or less ability.

Remember, we all have our own particular methodology in
troubleshooting. No one way will catch every single problem
in the least number of steps, but it is good to have
different perspectives.

It's just hard to start a comprehensive troubleshooting
session when many people haven't gathered enough evidence,
don't have a multimeter, don't have spare parts or a
compatible system. All we can do is throw out any and all
ideas possible and hope for a report back about what the
outcome was.

<xsean415@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f241befa-d528-4211-b7ac-0088c836c0ce@g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> Hi guys
>
> My computer was fully functional until one day all the problems
> started. When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
> (video card, processor, motherboard, etc.) but nothing is booting. All
> the hardware gets power power but for whatever reason nothing happens.
> The screen remains blank and the HD is not booting. I tried using my
> HD in another computer and it was working perfectly fine so I'm sure
> its not the HD. Could it be my Motherboard? I understand that the PSU
> is a common problem after doing some research but all the fans are
> spinning and all hardware is getting power.. Please provide me with
> whatever feedback.
> Thanks in advance guys!!
>

Take a look at these pc troubleshooting flow charts:
http://www.fonerbooks.com/pcrepair.htm

On Jun 28, 6:30 am, "mememe"
<ds...@sdsdasdasfvrrggrrrrrrrrrrsfffff.invalid> wrote:
> Take a look at these pc troubleshooting flow charts:http://www.fonerbooks..com/pcrepair.htm

Look at that chart for a power supply. "Power Supply come On?"
Yes.
> How can you tell if the power is on? Can you hear fans
> turning and drives motors spinning up, see little lights
> on the front of the CPU case or hear any beeps?
"Live Screen?" No. So the chart says "Proceed to video failure
chart'. But that problem was a power supply that powers with
insufficient voltage.

The OP posted:
> When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
> but nothing is booting.

According to that diagnostic procedure, the OP should be fixing a
video card. Why? Answers from that procedure were not definitive.
Therefore the OP also would be fixing something that is not broken.

Fixing something with only what is available is sometimes necessary.
Ever fix a car's electronic ignition with nothing but a light bulb?
Been there. However the meter is so ubiquitous and so inexpensive.
No reason exists to not have one. How to nail wood together without a
hammer? So much easier is to get a hammer.

Without definitive answers, the diagnostic procedure would shotgun -
buy a new video card. Then "Live with new video adaptor" would lead
to "Proceed to Motherboard Failure chart". Eventually, the procedure
removes everything from the chassis, reseats memory and cables, swaps
a new CPU, then buys a new motherboard. All because the very first
question did not have a definitive answer using a ubiquitous tool -
the 3.5 digit multimeter.

Having shotgun a new video card, new CPU, and new motherboard; only
confusion remains. Additional problems may have been created. And
still have the original problem exists because the very first question
was not answered definitively in less than 30 seconds with numbers -
the 3.5 digit multimeter.

Hostility by some against a tool as important as a screwdriver is
indicative of fear to learn ‘how to work smarter; not harder’. We
taught technicians how to solve this problem quickly with a meter 40
years ago. 40 years later and still so many despise smarter
techniques?

Shotgunning has its place when a car does not start and the only
tools are a light bulb, pliers, and screwdriver. Shotgunning here is
unnecessary because the meter is so inexpensive, so ubiquitous, so
definitively informative, and a tool as useful as a hammer.

>>"w_tom" <w_tom1@usa.net> wrote in message
>>news:60096d3a-25f2-401a-aefd->>e1532d96e5c6@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>On Jun 28, 6:30 am, "mememe"
>><ds...@sdsdasdasfvrrggrrrrrrrrrrsfffff.invalid > wrote:
>>> Take a look at these pc troubleshooting flow
>>> charts:http://www.fonerbooks.com/pcrepair.htm

>> Look at that chart for a power supply. "Power Supply come On?"
>>Yes.
>>> How can you tell if the power is on? Can you hear fans
>>> turning and drives motors spinning up, see little lights
>>> on the front of the CPU case or hear any beeps?
>>"Live Screen?" No. So the chart says "Proceed to video failure
>>chart'. But that problem was a power supply that powers with
>>insufficient voltage.

>> The OP posted:
>>> When I push the power button, all the fans start spinning
>>> but nothing is booting.

>> According to that diagnostic procedure, the OP should be fixing a
>>video card. Why? Answers from that procedure were not definitive.
>>Therefore the OP also would be fixing something that is not broken.

>> Fixing something with only what is available is sometimes necessary.
>>Ever fix a car's electronic ignition with nothing but a light bulb?
>>Been there. However the meter is so ubiquitous and so inexpensive.
>>No reason exists to not have one. How to nail wood together without a
>>hammer? So much easier is to get a hammer.

>> Without definitive answers, the diagnostic procedure would shotgun -
>>buy a new video card. Then "Live with new video adaptor" would lead
>>to "Proceed to Motherboard Failure chart". Eventually, the procedure
>>removes everything from the chassis, reseats memory and cables, swaps
>>a new CPU, then buys a new motherboard. All because the very first
>>question did not have a definitive answer using a ubiquitous tool -
>>the 3.5 digit multimeter.

>> Having shotgun a new video card, new CPU, and new motherboard; only
>>confusion remains. Additional problems may have been created. And
>>still have the original problem exists because the very first question
>>was not answered definitively in less than 30 seconds with numbers -
>>the 3.5 digit multimeter.

>> Hostility by some against a tool as important as a screwdriver is
>>indicative of fear to learn ‘how to work smarter; not harder’. We
>>taught technicians how to solve this problem quickly with a meter 40
>>years ago. 40 years later and still so many despise smarter
>>techniques?

>> Shotgunning has its place when a car does not start and the only
>>tools are a light bulb, pliers, and screwdriver. Shotgunning here is
>>unnecessary because the meter is so inexpensive, so ubiquitous, so
>>definitively informative, and a tool as useful as a hammer.

I understand entirely your reliance and promotion of this tool, but you
don't explain very well how to use it and you don't advise how one can
access the very precise numbers and procedures in order to use it
effectively. We are not all electricians ya know.

In the absence of this information and this tool, it is good enough to swap
in known good components and test the current components on a known good
system. The OP has already verified the basic function of the hard drive ,,
and this does point to a defective power supply or motherboard component. If
it's not the power supply I feel sorry for the OP as replacing a motherboard
is a pain in the neck, even if one can find a replacement .. these things
become obsolete and out of stock as soon as you get them home.

On Jun 29, 2:22*pm, "mememe"
<ds...@sdsdasdasfvrrggrrrrrrrrrrsfffff.invalid> wrote:
> I understand entirely your reliance and promotion of this tool, but you
> don't explain very well how to use it and you don't advise how one can
> access the very precise numbers and procedures in order to use it
> effectively. We are not all electricians ya know.

Only professional carpenters can used hammers? Far more
complicated - requires far more knowledge - is using a cell phone or
Ipod. On the meter, select 20 VDC range (with power on). Touch
probes to wire contacts. Read numbers. Using it was not explained
because it is that easy.

That last post demonstrates why swapping parts also can lead to
confusion. Swapping parts can also cause other failures. Swapping
parts assumed the new part is known good. Shotgunning is performed
when all else has failed or everything else has been eliminated
(therefore the last part must have failed).

The meter is for people only smart enough to shop in Kmart - which
is why the meter is sold where hammers are also sold. If a meter is
too complex, then one has no business even removing screws from the
computer. Even that disk drive is more complex, easier to destroy and
more hazardous than a meter. Meter is used by high school science
students. The meter discovers in seconds what shotgunning can only
hope to accomplish in minutes.

As tjhat flow chart demonstrates, by replacing parts without
definitive answers, the repairman would have replaced most of the
computer and still not even know what the problem was. That is also
what shotgunning does. Meter should only be used by people who can
also use a hammer or who do junior high science.

I presume you are now going to point us to a comprehensive technical sheet
listing the expected voltages for the OPs computer. That would be more
useful than evangelising for a tool which we have not used before.

On Jun 30, 8:14*am, "mememe"
<ds...@sdsdasdasfvrrggrrrrrrrrrrsfffff.invalid> wrote:
> I presume you are now going to point us to a comprehensive technical sheet
> listing the expected voltages for the OPs computer. That would be more
> useful than evangelising for a tool which we have not used before.

Voltage numbers were provided in previous posts. There is no
evangelizing. A tool simpler than a cell phone is $17 in Wal-Mart
because a tool for definitive solutions is that simple, that
ubiquitous, and that inexpensive. Also what the Japanese meant by
"work smarter; not harder". Also described in CSI as "follow the
evidence".

Then post numbers from that meter. Why? Those who actually
designed power supplies can then provide useful information. Replies
will only be a useful as the numbers posted. Without those numbers,
then every reply can only suggest shotgunning. Maybe that part is
bad. Replace it. Maybe this is bad. Buy a new one. Shotgunning is
nothing more than a sacrifice to the gods - a religion to some. We
don't use religion to fix things faster and definitively. Numbers
from the meter means the next reply is definitive.

"w_tom" <w_tom1@usa.net> wrote in message
news:a7cd53b8-8a12-47b0-8e96-0c04aa4b9f7a@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 30, 8:14 am, "mememe"
<ds...@sdsdasdasfvrrggrrrrrrrrrrsfffff.invalid> wrote:
> I presume you are now going to point us to a comprehensive technical sheet
> listing the expected voltages for the OPs computer. That would be more
> useful than evangelising for a tool which we have not used before.

Voltage numbers were provided in previous posts. There is no
evangelizing. A tool simpler than a cell phone is $17 in Wal-Mart
because a tool for definitive solutions is that simple, that
ubiquitous, and that inexpensive. Also what the Japanese meant by
"work smarter; not harder". Also described in CSI as "follow the
evidence".

Then post numbers from that meter. Why? Those who actually
designed power supplies can then provide useful information. Replies
will only be a useful as the numbers posted. Without those numbers,
then every reply can only suggest shotgunning. Maybe that part is
bad. Replace it. Maybe this is bad. Buy a new one. Shotgunning is
nothing more than a sacrifice to the gods - a religion to some. We
don't use religion to fix things faster and definitively. Numbers
from the meter means the next reply is definitive.

--------------------------------
Look, no one is arguing against using a multi-meter or any
other tools to obtain numerical data. No one is saying that
such information is not needed, in certain circumstances.

But, in this case (and most cases), it would only provide data
as to whether the PSU was providing the voltages it needs to.
But even if you could establish a deeper understanding of why
the PSU wasn't functioning properly, the only thing that most
can do about it is replace the PSU.

Using a PSU tester would accomplish almost as much as
your multi-meter, but not provide the numbers. Even without
the numbers you have the same practical result. The PSU
gets replaced if it is bad. Admittedly, the PSU tester might
not tell you if the PSU were underpowering or overpowering
your system, but if that is the case the PSU still needs to be
replaced. Having the knowledge that one rail is not providing
the rated power, does not offer any means of correcting the
situation other than replacing the whole PSU.

For those with access to a known good PSU, this bit of
"shotgunning" can be a viable trouble shooting approach.

Luck;
Ken
-----------------------------

On Jul 1, 2:32 pm, "Ken Maltby" <kmal...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Look, no one is arguing against using a multi-meter or any
> other tools to obtain numerical data. No one is saying that
> such information is not needed, in certain circumstances.
>
> But, in this case (and most cases), it would only provide data
> as to whether the PSU was providing the voltages it needs to.
> But even if you could establish a deeper understanding of why
> the PSU wasn't functioning properly, the only thing that most
> can do about it is replace the PSU.

Same point even made in CSI. Conclusions made by speculation are
not facts. We call it shotgunning.

Assume a second power supply boots the system. Well, first power
supply was perfectly good. But changing the power supply temporarily
fixed a loose connection. Failure returns later as observed in some
other posts asking these same questions. Fixing something without
*knowing* it was defective? Just another way to waste time and
money. Especially when identifying the defect takes so little time.

Is it a power supply or some other component of the power supply
'system'. Another part of shotgunning. We pretend those other
'system' components are not defective? Well the same numbers that
could identify a defective power supply with also define those other
components as either 'definitively good' or 'definitively bad'. The
only useful answer includes that word definitively - and takes less
time - and does not waste money replacing perfectly good components.

A defective power supply may still boot the computer. And a
perfectly good power supply sometimes may not boot in some computers.
Replacing parts in these situations means a problem remains.

Using the meter identified a defect in seconds. Swapping power
supplies takes so many more minutes - replacing a part that was not
defective. What happens if the failure is in another part of the
power supply 'system'? Do we blame memory, then CPU, then motherboard
as a flow chart said? How many parts (including power supply) do we
buy uselessly?

Power supply tester is a nearly useless tool. It can only identify
one extreme type failure. Meanwhile, the meter would identify or
eliminate that failure and a long list of other failures in seconds -
and definitively. Meter provides information so that the technically
better educated can reply with additional useful suggestions. No
meter numbers means better informed need not bother to reply. No
numbers means shotgunning. Anyone can do that without assistance
here. A defective power supply (it spins fans and illuminates lights
but will not boot) can still be declared good by that power supply
tester. That power supply tester is typical of conclusions made
without numbers. Incomplete. Not definitive.

First numbers from a meter identify the defect in seconds. Then the
new power supply is installed and also checked. If computer boots,
then is a power supply OK? Of course not. A defective (or
undersized) supply can still boot a computer. That new supply is not
known good until verified by the meter.

After a new power supply is installed, the meter checks that supply
while computer provides a maximum load (multitasking to all
peripherals simultaneously). Meter also calibrates the motherboard
voltage monitor (if it exists). Meter next checks the CMOS battery
(without removing it). If that 3 volt battery is about 2.8 volts,
then make plans to replace that battery in the next six months. Just
another failure that need not crash a computer.

Will the power supply tester do any of this? Will a power supply
tester test other parts of the power supply 'system'? No for both
questions. Why spend so much for a tester that does so little? It
will not even say a power supply is good - definitively. Many fear a
device that gives numbers. 'Safer' is a device that only has lights.
But the informed person buys a multimeter - a tool for fixing
virtually anything electrical - for maybe $7 more. The meter has
usefulness equivalent to a hammer. The power supply tester may even
be useless with a next generation power supply - and has no other
useful function - for so much money.

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:32:16 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
<kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


> Look, no one is arguing against using a multi-meter or any
>other tools to obtain numerical data. No one is saying that
>such information is not needed, in certain circumstances.
>
> But, in this case (and most cases), it would only provide data
>as to whether the PSU was providing the voltages it needs to.
>But even if you could establish a deeper understanding of why
>the PSU wasn't functioning properly, the only thing that most
>can do about it is replace the PSU.

True, but it gets to the heart of the matter in that it's
then identifying the problem part so it can be replaced,
instead of having to hunt down various parts (assuming some
people don't have spares of many parts and that for some
parts it can be fairly laborious or at least time consuming
to swap some things like a motherboard including repair or
reinstall of windows to get it working) and swap each.



>
> Using a PSU tester would accomplish almost as much as
>your multi-meter, but not provide the numbers.

A typical consumer PSU tester would not accomplish much, it
is quite common for a PSU that is beginning to fail but not
totally dead yet (such that it doesn't yet shut itself off
or stay off from being extremely out of spec) to have
unloaded or barely loaded rails that are within spec. The
needed measurement is one when the PSU is powering the same
load or even better, the very PC it needs to be used in, or
even best, that very PC while the PC is exhibiting the
symptoms of a problem.


>Even without
>the numbers you have the same practical result.

Most PSU testers are practically worthless except if one
plugs it into the PSU and PSU doesn't turn on at all, in
which case one can assume PSU is dead but putting a hard
drive on a connector and jumpering PS-On to Gnd will tell as
much with most PSU (excluding the rare ones that monitor and
shut down if there's no load on other rails like the 3.3V).

More to the point, the typical PSU tester can't indicate a
PSU is working properly to power a system.


>The PSU
>gets replaced if it is bad. Admittedly, the PSU tester might
>not tell you if the PSU were underpowering or overpowering
>your system, but if that is the case the PSU still needs to be
>replaced. Having the knowledge that one rail is not providing
>the rated power, does not offer any means of correcting the
>situation other than replacing the whole PSU.

And yet, having the knowledge is what allows to decide on
the needed remedy of replacing the PSU so it's puzzling what
issue you have with the methodology. I would speculate most
people don't have another equally *good* PSU lying around,
that one would tend to use the best PSU they have available
to power their system instead of leaving it unused... and
many people don't have several newer systems such that they
can swap an appropriate PSU out of one to put it in the
other system. Thus, the question is one of what to do next
- should the troubleshooter then seek a good replacement
PSU, suffering higher cost to get it locally or longer wait
to have it delivered from an online purchase, or should the
troubleshooter focus on other parts instead.



>
> For those with access to a known good PSU, this bit of
>"shotgunning" can be a viable trouble shooting approach.
>

If one can't find the problem any other way, yes shotgunning
is a last resort, but one that takes quite a bit more time
than the initial voltage measurements. How many people do
you expect to have access to a known good PSU, one proven
suitable for the same load the questionable system causes?
What if the known good PSU isn't suitable for the system
even though it otherwise works, then the troubleshooter
could be led astray thinking some part other than the PSU is
the problem. If you are saying the known good PSU is known
to power this system, why was it swapped out at all for the
other psu? That seems unlikely, IMO most people will