On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:15:40 +0100, Archie <no@com.com> wrote:
>Is there a generally-accepted best angle for the slope of a regular
>keyboard? One web page says this:
>
>------------------ BEGIN QUOTE -----------------
>"angle of the keyboard relative to the angle of the wrist. Most
>keyboards slope upwards from front to back, and this means that users
>bend their hands upwards when they are typing on the keyboard. This
>posture is called wrist extension, and we know that it is a source of
>injury risk for the wrist. Once the hand is extended beyond about a 15°
>upward angle, there is a very significant increase in the compression on
>the median nerve and other structures inside the wrist. So it is
>extremely important to type with the hands as flat as possible.
>
>From <http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/AHTutorials/ckd.htm>
>------------------ END QUOTE --------------------
>
>Which I interpret as being zero to 15 degrees. But my Compaq keyboard
>permits either:
>
> (1) flat or maybe 5 degrees
> (2) about 30 to 35 degrees.
Undoubtedly there is a generally accepted etc.
ISO has standards, and I'd say ISO is the nearest you can get to
"generally accepted".
However: the most imporantt thing is to educate people to start
FEELING.
Feel how you sit, does your back start to hurt, pain in the legs maybe
? Do your arms feel "folded" too strongly... How do the wrists feel
after 15 mins of typing ?
many people just keep plowing on during a work day, racing the rat
race.
Then: writsts are different from person to person. So why exactly 5 or
6 degrees tilt ? A general guideline... no more.
In the early 80's we had IBM keyboards of maybe 10 cm THICK on the
table.
I was not hurt, because my work had enough variation: no full day of
typing, but programming meant: type a line, think, type a line,
think...
Enough rest periods.
I can imagine the wrist angle makes a difference. But that does not
immediadtely translate in keyboard tilt. Subtract the angle of the
lower arm first.
I'd say, the first thing to do to avoid injury is to define the
persons function description. And tune in to the feeling.
Nowadays, typing requires so much less forcce than in the era of the
Remmington typewriters. The effect is, that people keep going on,
thinking that the physical load is less. But maybe load x time is the
same as before... And the repetition is a lot higher..
BTW: forget about Rod Speed: he only has opinions, no arguments. He
even thinks the VW beetle is a great car... go figure. Nothing to
learn there.
>> Is there a generally-accepted best angle for the slope
>> of a regular keyboard? One web page says this:
>> ------------------ BEGIN QUOTE -----------------
>> "angle of the keyboard relative to the angle of the wrist. Most
>> keyboards slope upwards from front to back, and this means that users
>> bend their hands upwards when they are typing on the keyboard. This
>> posture is called wrist extension, and we know that it is a source of
>> injury risk for the wrist. Once the hand is extended beyond about a
>> 15° upward angle, there is a very significant increase in the
>> compression on the median nerve and other structures inside the
>> wrist. So it is extremely important to type with the hands as flat
>> as possible.
>>
>> From <http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/AHTutorials/ckd.htm>
>> ------------------ END QUOTE --------------------
>> Which I interpret as being zero to 15 degrees.
>> But my Compaq keyboard permits either:
>> (1) flat or maybe 5 degrees
>> (2) about 30 to 35 degrees.
> Undoubtedly there is a generally accepted etc.
Nope, if there was, the tilt wouldnt be adjustable.
> ISO has standards,
Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
> and I'd say ISO is the nearest you can get to "generally accepted".
Nope. In spades when ISO is silent on the keyboard tilt.
> However: the most imporantt thing is to educate people to start FEELING.
Is that anything like getting all touchy feely ?
> Feel how you sit, does your back start to hurt, pain in the legs maybe ?
> Do your arms feel "folded" too strongly...
Que ?
> How do the wrists feel after 15 mins of typing ?
You wont get any effect after 15 mins.
> many people just keep plowing on during a work day,
Havent noticed too many plows with keyboards.
> racing the rat race.
Not a great idea to try that with a plow either.
> Then: writsts are different from person to person. So why
> exactly 5 or 6 degrees tilt ? A general guideline... no more.
> In the early 80's we had IBM keyboards of maybe 10 cm THICK on the table.
Which had adjustable tilt too. Funny that.
> I was not hurt, because my work had enough variation: no full day of
> typing, but programming meant: type a line, think, type a line, think...
> Enough rest periods.
> I can imagine the wrist angle makes a difference. But that does not immediadtely
> translate in keyboard tilt. Subtract the angle of the lower arm first.
Its generally agree that those should be horizontal,
tho without much rigorous science behind that.
> I'd say, the first thing to do to avoid injury is to define the
> persons function description. And tune in to the feeling.
No thanks, not into touchy feely, thats for limp wristed wimps.
> Nowadays, typing requires so much less forcce than in the era
> of the Remmington typewriters. The effect is, that people keep
> going on, thinking that the physical load is less. But maybe load
> x time is the same as before... And the repetition is a lot higher..
Nope, not with decent editors it isnt.
> BTW: forget about Rod Speed: he only has opinions, no arguments.
You in spades in that shit above, child.
> He even thinks the VW beetle is a great car...
Never ever said anything like that, child.
> go figure. Nothing to learn there.
From your post, sure, you did manage to get something right.
>Osiris wrote
>
>>>> ISO has standards,
>
>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>
>> ISO 9241-4
>
>Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>
>> plse READ before comment
>
>Go and fuck yourself. No please, that's an order.
>
> Osiris wrote
>
>>>> ISO has standards,
>
>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>
>> ISO 9241-4
>
> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
Yes it does, troll.
>
>
>
>> plse READ before comment
>
> Go and fuck yourself. No please, that's an order.
>
>
>
>
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> From: "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardw are.pc-homebuilt
> Subject: Re: Correct angle for keyboard
> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:15:33 +1000
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Osiris wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:15:33 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Osiris wrote
>>
>>>>> ISO has standards,
>>
>>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>>
>>> ISO 9241-4
>>
>> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>>
>>> plse READ before comment
>>
>> Go and fuck yourself. No please, that's an order.
>>
>
> you're such a nice toy.
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
John Doe <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Osiris wrote
>>
>>>>> ISO has standards,
>>
>>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>>
>>> ISO 9241-4
>>
>> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>
> Yes it does, troll.
No it doesnt, fuckwit.
>>> plse READ before comment
>> Go and fuck yourself. No please, that's an order.
Rod Speed wrote:
> Osiris wrote
>
>>>> ISO has standards,
>
>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>
>> ISO 9241-4
>
> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
"General design includes items such as: palm rests; the visible surfaces
of the keytops; the SLOPE of the keyboard and keyboard SLOPE
ADJUSTMENT." So if you have a book or .pdf that shows the full and
actual wording of ISO 9241-4 would you be so kind as to quote it....
>
>> plse READ before comment
>
> Go and fuck yourself. No please, that's an order.
>
>
Real mature.
--
I used to have abs. Now, I've just got ab.
One big ol' Ab. - BigSkiff www.titanspot.com
Pyongyang sounds more like the sound effect an ACME catapult makes
as it goes off at precisely the wrong moment for Wile E. Coyote. -
Cadbury Moose
WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Osiris wrote
>>>>> ISO has standards,
>>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>>> ISO 9241-4
>> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
> "General design includes items such as: palm rests; the visible
> surfaces of the keytops; the SLOPE of the keyboard and keyboard SLOPE
> ADJUSTMENT."
Like I said, doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
> So if you have a book or .pdf that shows the full and actual wording of ISO 9241-4 would
> you be so kind as to quote it....
He's the one that made that claim.
He gets to do that quoting.
Thats how it works.
>>> plse READ before comment
>> Go and fuck yourself. No please, that's an order.
> Real mature.
Clearly wouldnt know what maturity was if it bit it on its lard arse.
Rod Speed wrote:
> WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Osiris wrote
>
>>>>>> ISO has standards,
>
>>>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>
>>>> ISO 9241-4
>
>>> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>
>> "General design includes items such as: palm rests; the visible
>> surfaces of the keytops; the SLOPE of the keyboard and keyboard SLOPE
>> ADJUSTMENT."
>
> Like I said, doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>
>> So if you have a book or .pdf that shows the full and actual wording of ISO 9241-4 would
>> you be so kind as to quote it....
>
> He's the one that made that claim.
>
> He gets to do that quoting.
>
> Thats how it works.
>
But you are the one claiming that it does not provide for a specific
angle, which in the foreword it alludes that it does. If you know this
for a fact then you must have a copy of the ISO so by all means share
it. If you do not have a copy of the ISO then you are emitting verbiage
from your hind orifice and don't know anymore about what precisely it
says than any of the rest of us.
--
I used to have abs. Now, I've just got ab.
One big ol' Ab. - BigSkiff www.titanspot.com
Pyongyang sounds more like the sound effect an ACME catapult makes
as it goes off at precisely the wrong moment for Wile E. Coyote. -
Cadbury Moose
WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Osiris wrote
>>>>>>> ISO has standards,
>>>>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>>>>> ISO 9241-4
>>>> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>>> "General design includes items such as: palm rests; the visible
>>> surfaces of the keytops; the SLOPE of the keyboard and keyboard
>>> SLOPE ADJUSTMENT."
>> Like I said, doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>>> So if you have a book or .pdf that shows the full and actual
>>> wording of ISO 9241-4 would you be so kind as to quote it....
>> He's the one that made that claim.
>> He gets to do that quoting.
>> Thats how it works.
> But you are the one claiming that it does not provide for a
> specific angle, which in the foreword it alludes that it does.
And it doesnt.
> If you know this for a fact then you must have a copy of the ISO so by all means share
> it.
Not legal with copyrighted material that they dont make freely available.
> If you do not have a copy of the ISO then you are emitting verbiage from your hind
> orifice and don't know anymore about what precisely it says than any of the rest of us.
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
Rod Speed wrote:
> WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Osiris wrote
>
>>>>>>>> ISO has standards,
>
>>>>>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>
>>>>>> ISO 9241-4
>
>>>>> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>
>>>> "General design includes items such as: palm rests; the visible
>>>> surfaces of the keytops; the SLOPE of the keyboard and keyboard
>>>> SLOPE ADJUSTMENT."
>
>>> Like I said, doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>
>>>> So if you have a book or .pdf that shows the full and actual
>>>> wording of ISO 9241-4 would you be so kind as to quote it....
>
>>> He's the one that made that claim.
>
>>> He gets to do that quoting.
>
>>> Thats how it works.
>
>> But you are the one claiming that it does not provide for a
>> specific angle, which in the foreword it alludes that it does.
>
> And it doesnt.
Prove it.
>
>> If you know this for a fact then you must have a copy of the ISO so by all means share
>> it.
>
> Not legal with copyrighted material that they dont make freely available.
>
>> If you do not have a copy of the ISO then you are emitting verbiage from your hind
>> orifice and don't know anymore about what precisely it says than any of the rest of us.
>
> Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
>
>
Translation, you do not know what it says and can not prove it.
Assessment of orifice vocalization stands.
HAND
--
I used to have abs. Now, I've just got ab.
One big ol' Ab. - BigSkiff www.titanspot.com
Pyongyang sounds more like the sound effect an ACME catapult makes
as it goes off at precisely the wrong moment for Wile E. Coyote. -
Cadbury Moose
WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> WindsorFox <windsorfox@NOSPAM.cox.net> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Osiris wrote
>>>>>>>>> ISO has standards,
>>>>>>>> Pity there isnt one for the keyboard angle.
>>>>>>> ISO 9241-4
>>>>>> Doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>>>>> "General design includes items such as: palm rests; the visible
>>>>> surfaces of the keytops; the SLOPE of the keyboard and keyboard
>>>>> SLOPE ADJUSTMENT."
>>>> Like I said, doesnt specify a 'correct' keyboard angle.
>>>>> So if you have a book or .pdf that shows the full and actual
>>>>> wording of ISO 9241-4 would you be so kind as to quote it....
>>>> He's the one that made that claim.
>>>> He gets to do that quoting.
>>>> Thats how it works.
>>> But you are the one claiming that it does not provide for a
>>> specific angle, which in the foreword it alludes that it does.
>> And it doesnt.
> Prove it.
HE claimed that it does, at the top of the quoting.
HE gets to do the proving.
THATS how it works.
>>> If you know this for a fact then you must have a copy of the ISO so by all means share
>>> it.
>> Not legal with copyrighted material that they dont make freely available.
>>> If you do not have a copy of the ISO then you are emitting verbiage
>>> from your hind orifice and don't know anymore about what precisely
>>> it says than any of the rest of us.
>> Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
> Translation, you do not know what it says and can not prove it.
> Assessment of orifice vocalization stands.
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
Re: Correct angle for keyboard 
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