Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
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Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote:
> Sorry if the question was asked and answered, but I just joined this
> newsgroup right after having some weird system problem and have it
> solved (I hope for good) by luck. And I decided to join this newsgroup
> to learn a little more about computer problem for future use.
> Anyway, I am running WinXP SP2 (I don't think
> software has anything to do with this but who knows).
> AMD Athlon 3700+ 64
> 3GB memory
> (1) 100G (2) 250GB hard drives
> 1 DVD burner
> 256MB video card GeorgeForce something
> I usually have system running 24/7 and only reboot the system every
> few days when system starts slowing down, then back running again.
> And for about a week the system started acting up, first it locked up
> after 2 days, then 1 day, then 2-3 times a day.
> - Yesterday, the system reported that the booting device
> (not the correct word) or something was changed, and it
> gave the option to F1 = continue or DEL to go to CMOS
> setting. I pressed F1 and it continued to boot just fine.
That sounds like the cmos battery going bad.
> - Then around an hour later it locked up again. I tried to
> reboot and it gave the same report saying that the booting
> device/option was changed, but didn't give the option to
> press F1 to continue like last time.
> - I checked the CMOS setting to find out that
> - Drive C: became Slave (100GB)
> - Drive D: became Master (250GB)
> I checked the jumper, changed cable, disabled Drive D: and
> changed Drive C: to single drive etc. but it still won't boot and
> still getting the same error message "Verifying DMI Pool Data"
That isnt an error message. Its an information message that is
there every time you boot. The reason you see it is because
normally it flashes by so fast you dont notice it unless you look
for it. In this situation it isnt managing to do what comes next,
so that stays on the screen and you can see it.
> I have never seen this type of problem before so just can't figure out
> what caused the problem and why it changed the Master/Slave etc.
> and I was looking to get another system built while checking for the
> warrantee replacement (both CPU and Mboard are 5-6 months old)
> - While having the case opened I checked the FAN of video card which
> stopped working and I gave it some oil to make it spinned again (and
> also ordered a replacement fan). I found the fan stopped again, so I
> replaced the dead fan with a working one, and didn't have any hope of
> solving the booting problem but killing the time.
> ... and for whatever reason it has solved the booting problem
> (for good I hope), and I hope that the FAN was the problem
> (it just doesn't seem right?). There must be something else?
Yeah, it cant have been that.
> ....Hmmm.. I just did "Properties" on the 100GB (drive C:)
> which supposes to be 100GB, but the properties reports
> it's a 56GB hard drive and with 40GB avalable space.
> It seems like something eating 44GB and damaged the partition?????
Its more likely that whatever changed the drives around
also change the drive type setting. It should be AUTO.
> I have no problem replacing this with 500GB, but just
> want to learn what is causing all these problems, and
> it may be the best chance to learn something new.
I'd check for corrosion around the cmos battery. It shouldnt have
gone bad that quickly. If there is no obvious corrosion and the top
contact isnt lose, I'd try replacing it anyway, it may be a bad cell.
Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
>>> Sorry if the question was asked and answered, but I just joined this
>>> newsgroup right after having some weird system problem and have it
>>> solved (I hope for good) by luck. And I decided to join this newsgroup
>>> to learn a little more about computer problem for future use.
>>> Anyway, I am running WinXP SP2 (I don't think
>>> software has anything to do with this but who knows).
>>> AMD Athlon 3700+ 64
>>> 3GB memory
>>> (1) 100G (2) 250GB hard drives
>>> 1 DVD burner
>>> 256MB video card GeorgeForce something
>>> I usually have system running 24/7 and only reboot the system every
>>> few days when system starts slowing down, then back running again.
>>> And for about a week the system started acting up, first it locked
>>> up after 2 days, then 1 day, then 2-3 times a day.
>>> - Yesterday, the system reported that the booting device
>>> (not the correct word) or something was changed, and it
>>> gave the option to F1 = continue or DEL to go to CMOS
>>> setting. I pressed F1 and it continued to boot just fine.
>> That sounds like the cmos battery going bad.
> Battery is what I have in mind to, and I have my fingers crossed
> hoping for the luck. I just went to local store to get a 500GB
> SATA drive, and will try to find a way to transfer the system
> (just reinstalled WinXP few weeks ago) to other drive, and trying
> to figure out what eating 46GB or turning 100GB into 56GB drive.
Bet that is due to the drive type getting changed behind
your back, or you managed to change it yourself when
you were doing the changes you list below.
Ideally the drive type should always be AUTO, but
you may have chosen to use the CHS values earlier.
>>> - Then around an hour later it locked up again. I tried to
>>> reboot and it gave the same report saying that the booting
>>> device/option was changed, but didn't give the option to
>>> press F1 to continue like last time.
>>> - I checked the CMOS setting to find out that
>>> - Drive C: became Slave (100GB)
>>> - Drive D: became Master (250GB)
>>> I checked the jumper, changed cable, disabled Drive D: and
>>> changed Drive C: to single drive etc. but it still won't boot and
>>> still getting the same error message "Verifying DMI Pool Data"
>> That isnt an error message. Its an information message that is
>> there every time you boot. The reason you see it is because
>> normally it flashes by so fast you dont notice it unless you look
>> for it. In this situation it isnt managing to do what comes next,
>> so that stays on the screen and you can see it.
> The system froze and I can read the error right at the bottom of
> screen. IOW, it didn't continue to boot or rebooting so the error
> messages displayed on screen until I hit the RED or RESET button.
Yes, that's what I said, its an information message, not an error message.
>>> I have never seen this type of problem before so just can't figure
>>> out what caused the problem and why it changed the Master/Slave etc.
>>> and I was looking to get another system built while checking for the
>>> warrantee replacement (both CPU and Mboard are 5-6 months old)
>>> - While having the case opened I checked the FAN of video card which
>>> stopped working and I gave it some oil to make it spinned again (and
>>> also ordered a replacement fan). I found the fan stopped again, so
>>> I replaced the dead fan with a working one, and didn't have any
>>> hope of solving the booting problem but killing the time.
>>> ... and for whatever reason it has solved the booting problem
>>> (for good I hope), and I hope that the FAN was the problem
>>> (it just doesn't seem right?). There must be something else?
>> Yeah, it cant have been that.
>>> ....Hmmm.. I just did "Properties" on the 100GB (drive C:)
>>> which supposes to be 100GB, but the properties reports
>>> it's a 56GB hard drive and with 40GB avalable space.
>>> It seems like something eating 44GB and damaged the partition?????
>> Its more likely that whatever changed the drives around
>> also change the drive type setting. It should be AUTO.
> I did change the drives around server times, changed the bootting order
> few times but none worked... because the system is on drive C: (it's
> the only bootable drive) and it was recognized as SLAVE of drive D:
Doesnt matter, any modern bios will boot a slave fine.
> All drives have been set to AUTO and the system was working
> fine for months. Also, I even have 2 power-case-fans (these
> set to around 1/5 or 1/4 of their power as each can suck around
> 105cfa/s (or minute?), and sound like vaccum or yet engines
> when running full speed) and 1 extra case fan.
> It's so weird that I have never seen nor expected this type of error,
Yeah, something is scrambling the cmos settings.
> and all the weird things going on right now.
I'd reset the cmos once you replace the battery and that may well fix it.
>>> I have no problem replacing this with 500GB, but just
>>> want to learn what is causing all these problems, and
>>> it may be the best chance to learn something new.
>> I'd check for corrosion around the cmos battery. It shouldnt have
>> gone bad that quickly. If there is no obvious corrosion and the top
>> contact isnt lose, I'd try replacing it anyway, it may be a bad cell.
> Thanks for the advice, I will see how long this boot will last and will
> pay more attention to the battery, or even just replace the Mboard
> for good. I have an extra one laying around somewhere, it a brand new
> I got as a replacement for the defected one (ordered same time with
> the CPU), and I ordered the current cuz I worry it may take awhile
> for the replacement to arrive etc..
Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> That sounds like the cmos battery going bad.
>>> Battery is what I have in mind to, and I have my fingers crossed
>>> hoping for the luck. I just went to local store to get a 500GB
>>> SATA drive, and will try to find a way to transfer the system
>>> (just reinstalled WinXP few weeks ago) to other drive, and trying
>>> to figure out what eating 46GB or turning 100GB into 56GB drive.
>> Bet that is due to the drive type getting changed behind
>> your back, or you managed to change it yourself when
>> you were doing the changes you list below.
> It seems like it but I still can't figure out what causes all
> these problems. Right now, even the system is running
> but still don't know what eats 45GB of the 100GB drive
Yeah, odd given the new detail provided below.
I guess its possible that the flakey motherboard is somehow
getting in the road of the interrogation of the drive on its details,
particularly the size it claims to be, but I have never seen that happen.
>> Ideally the drive type should always be AUTO, but
>> you may have chosen to use the CHS values earlier.
> All of them have been set to AUTO and they were still AUTO
> when I checked the first time. Matter fact, it has been more/less
> a decade I never done any manually ever since the first mboard
> had the auto-detect and setting. Before I had to follow the
> manual to set the Heads, Cyls, Tracks/Sectors etc..
Stranger and stranger.
>>>>> - Then around an hour later it locked up again. I tried to
>>>>> reboot and it gave the same report saying that the booting
>>>>> device/option was changed, but didn't give the option to
>>>>> press F1 to continue like last time.
>>>>> - I checked the CMOS setting to find out that
>>>>> - Drive C: became Slave (100GB)
>>>>> - Drive D: became Master (250GB)
>>>>> I checked the jumper, changed cable, disabled Drive D: and
>>>>> changed Drive C: to single drive etc. but it still won't boot and
>>>>> still getting the same error message "Verifying DMI Pool Data"
>>>> That isnt an error message. Its an information message that is
>>>> there every time you boot. The reason you see it is because
>>>> normally it flashes by so fast you dont notice it unless you look
>>>> for it. In this situation it isnt managing to do what comes next,
>>>> so that stays on the screen and you can see it.
>>> The system froze and I can read the error right at the bottom of
>>> screen. IOW, it didn't continue to boot or rebooting so the error
>>> messages displayed on screen until I hit the RED or RESET button.
>> Yes, that's what I said, its an information message, not an error message.
> Could be as I never have any problem for so
> many years to learn any newer experience.
Yeah, that's usually the first time most actually notice that message,
when the system stalls after displaying it. It usually isnt shown for long.
> I only know that the mboard I have "Epox 8KDA3I" says it has built-in
> something to detect and report around 34 or 44 errors. Hmmm.. if I
> remember correctly the manual may say it reports Error #'s (LED) then
> I may have to check with manual to know more detail .... I forgot all about
> this and now can't find the manual (I still have the box but no manual <g>)
>>>> Its more likely that whatever changed the drives around
>>>> also change the drive type setting. It should be AUTO.
>>> I did change the drives around server times, changed the bootting order
>>> few times but none worked... because the system is on drive C: (it's the
>>> only bootable drive) and it was recognized as SLAVE of drive D:
>> Doesnt matter, any modern bios will boot a slave fine.
> This I do know newer windows have option to install
> and boot from different drive, but I never have more
> than one to have any experience with this option.
I was actually talking about the bios, not XP.
> About booting, I am still pretty much in DOS age <g> that
> format has option to copy the booting option (system file?)
> to make the drive bootable, and usually drive C:
Its much more complicated than that with XP.
> But like I said, I don't have much experience with the newer booting..
> don't even remember if FORMAT asks to transfer the system file or
> not (I can see that am falling behind now the current technology now ...
> even I started computing almost 30 years ago <g>)
A mere child, I started a full decade before that |-)
>>> All drives have been set to AUTO and the system was working
>>> fine for months. Also, I even have 2 power-case-fans (these
>>> set to around 1/5 or 1/4 of their power as each can suck around
>>> 105cfa/s (or minute?), and sound like vaccum or yet engines
>>> when running full speed) and 1 extra case fan.
>>> It's so weird that I have never seen nor expected this type of error,
>> Yeah, something is scrambling the cmos settings.
>>> and all the weird things going on right now.
>> I'd reset the cmos once you replace the battery and that may well fix it.
> CMOS! CMOS! CMOS! twenty some years ago I always trying to find
> something new to mess with the CMOS setting... but since the newer
> technology with everything AUTO .. first the newer technology made me
> lazy to look at the CMOS, after so many years falling behind I feel
> dizzy staring at so many newer stuffs (a jungle of strange
> options/features <g>), and now when I need to deal with it I start
> sweating <bg>
> Hahaha just few hours ago, I didn't even know what SATA is, didn't
> even know my mboard supports SATA until I got the 500GB SATA
> drive when I asked the saleman and learned about the SATA <g>
>>> Thanks for the advice, I will see how long this boot will last and
>>> will pay more attention to the battery, or even just replace the
>>> Mboard for good. I have an extra one laying around somewhere,
>>> it a brand new I got as a replacement for the defected one
>>> (ordered same time with the CPU), and I ordered the current
>>> cuz I worry it may take awhile for the replacement to arrive etc..
>> Yeah, it could easily be a flakey motherboard.
> The motherboard is running ok, but I don't like it much. Not because
> of the performace but it requires the specific NETWORK driver came
> with the motherboard to work, and sometime it takes few tries to get
> the network to work (internet connection). When all other mboards
> work fine with the network driver came with Windows.
> Well, I was about to order the Dual Core, but now
> I can wait to see how much luck I have on this one.
Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> That sounds like the cmos battery going bad.
>>>>> Battery is what I have in mind to, and I have my fingers crossed
>>>>> hoping for the luck. I just went to local store to get a 500GB
>>>>> SATA drive, and will try to find a way to transfer the system
>>>>> (just reinstalled WinXP few weeks ago) to other drive, and trying
>>>>> to figure out what eating 46GB or turning 100GB into 56GB drive.
>>>> Bet that is due to the drive type getting changed behind
>>>> your back, or you managed to change it yourself when
>>>> you were doing the changes you list below.
>>> It seems like it but I still can't figure out what causes all
>>> these problems. Right now, even the system is running
>>> but still don't know what eats 45GB of the 100GB drive
>> Yeah, odd given the new detail provided below.
> That's one of the reasons why I decided to join the newsgroup hoping
> to read more quesion/answer of the problem of newer technology
> which I haven't learned for so many years. Or I am still depending
> on experience of older system and the newer Plug-And-Pray.
>> I guess its possible that the flakey motherboard is somehow
>> getting in the road of the interrogation of the drive on its details,
>> particularly the size it claims to be, but I have never seen that happen.
>
>> What does Everest have to say about the drive ?
>> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
> I am downloading it now, but I don't know if it will find anything
> while the system is running (it has been runing for 24 hrs now),
Thats a check to see if there is any problem with the hard drive itself.
If there isnt, its more evidence that the problem is outside the drive.
> and it may not be able to detect anything when
> the system won't boot to run the program.
Yes, it wont help with that situation.
> But who knows, and I want to learn anything <g>
>>>> Ideally the drive type should always be AUTO, but
>>>> you may have chosen to use the CHS values earlier.
>>> All of them have been set to AUTO and they were still AUTO
>>> when I checked the first time. Matter fact, it has been more/less
>>> a decade I never done any manually ever since the first mboard
>>> had the auto-detect and setting. Before I had to follow the
>>> manual to set the Heads, Cyls, Tracks/Sectors etc..
>> Stranger and stranger.
> That was why I couldn't be able to nail the problem, and was about to
> build another system. Usually, if it won't boot (if not the sign of power
> supply) then at least I can just remove everything and put them back
> one-by-one, but this time it detected Master = Slave and Slave = Master
> which I have never experienced before to know what to go about.
> So, the only thing I can do is to replace the cable to make sure
> the cable is ok, check to make sure the connection, jumper is ok
> etc.. then I disabled drive D: and changed drive C: to Single_Drive
> etc., and still can't get WinXP to boot. And all problem solved
> when I replaced the fan of the video card.
Likely thats a coincidence or the time you took to do that
allowed the system cool down enough so it booted fine and
the problem is just getting it to boot, once its booted, it runs fine.
> And I figure that the video-card will only get warm after
> running for awhile, and hot video card may cause problem
> to system not changing Master->Slave and Slave->Master.
Shouldnt be relevant.
> And that's the reason why I post the problem here hoping
> other may learn something or sharing some information.
Sure.
>>> I only know that the mboard I have "Epox 8KDA3I" says it has
>>> built-in something to detect and report around 34 or 44 errors.
>>> Hmmm.. if I remember correctly the manual may say it reports
>>> Error #'s (LED) then I may have to check with manual to know
>>> more detail .... I forgot all about this and now can't find the
>>> manual (I still have the box but no manual <g>)
> You are good! Months ago when I first got the mboard,
> I did download the manual, and yesterday I did try to
> download manual but it's no longer available.
I could get it fine.
>>>>>> Its more likely that whatever changed the drives around
>>>>>> also change the drive type setting. It should be AUTO.
>>>>> I did change the drives around server times, changed the bootting
>>>>> order few times but none worked... because the system is on drive
>>>>> C: (it's the only bootable drive) and it was recognized as SLAVE
>>>>> of drive D:
>>>> Doesnt matter, any modern bios will boot a slave fine.
>>> This I do know newer windows have option to install
>>> and boot from different drive, but I never have more
>>> than one to have any experience with this option.
>> I was actually talking about the bios, not XP.
> BIOS, yes, I see it has option to boot from so many different
> devices (4,5 or 6 different options I don't know them all <g>).
> I know some like CD-ROM, Hard Drive, Floppy, External Card ..
> and it has few more I don't even know what they are to remember.
> Yes, if has option to boot from different hard drive,
They always do and have done for a long time now.
> or option to re-anarage the hard drive's.
Not with the letter they get if that's what you mean. That's done by the OS.
> But I don't know if it will do any good when
> - Win XP is installed on Drive C:
> - Win XP booting should give instruction to load Windows
> from Drive C: and Drive C: got messed up.
Sure, it isnt relevant to that.
>>> About booting, I am still pretty much in DOS age <g> that
>>> format has option to copy the booting option (system file?)
>>> to make the drive bootable, and usually drive C:
>> Its much more complicated than that with XP.
> You are right! I came from DOS and was still using the same
> old DOS applications, was still using DOS command under Windows
> until I upgraded to Win XP probably less than 2 years ago ... when
> DOS Prompt and DOS Command are no longer user-friendly, and
> I was forced to learn to use Windows Explorer for the first time.
> It took me many months to get used to with Windows Explorer
Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> I guess its possible that the flakey motherboard is somehow
>>>> getting in the road of the interrogation of the drive on its details,
>>>> particularly the size it claims to be, but I have never seen that happen.
>>> I am downloading it now, but I don't know if it will find anything
>>> while the system is running (it has been runing for 24 hrs now),
>> Thats a check to see if there is any problem with the hard drive itself.
>> If there isnt, its more evidence that the problem is outside the drive.
> I downloaded, installed, and looking at the report right now.
> I haven't found any option to do any specific test
Correct, it just reports the drive SMART data. Thats
what tells you whether the drive has problems.
> but just run and check the report.
> - Computer Summary
> Drive C: 100GB (93GB)
> - Storage (Local Drives)
> Drive C: = 57498MB (used 17G, free 40GB)
> Hahaha even Everest gives me 2 different reports <bg>
The first one is likely to be what the drive claims to be.
The second one is likely to be what the OS reports about the partition.
Bit hard to be sure since you quote so little of the Everest report
and its not very clear which bits those two bits are coming from.
>>> So, the only thing I can do is to replace the cable to make sure
>>> the cable is ok, check to make sure the connection, jumper is ok
>>> etc.. then I disabled drive D: and changed drive C: to Single_Drive
>>> etc., and still can't get WinXP to boot. And all problem solved
>>> when I replaced the fan of the video card.
>> Likely thats a coincidence or the time you took to do that
>> allowed the system cool down enough so it booted fine and the
>> problem is just getting it to boot, once its booted, it runs fine.
> I wasn't about the heat, cuz it happened the nite before and I had
> the computer off overnite. The next day, I tried few times without
> any luck so I left it alone for hours trying to figure out what caused
> the problem (I usually take my time to solve problem), using other
> computer to google for information, and checking the price for
> another system etc.. then tried some more .. then decided to
> replace the fan while I had the case opened, and it decided to work.
OK, then its likely just a coincidence that it changed when you changed the fan.
> That's it! and now I still can't figure out why the 100GB
> becomes 56GB. 100GB is so cheap these days, I am not
> worry about it but I just want to know what is going on....
You should care because the same problem may well affect a new drive too.
> and even Everest gives to different reports <bg>
Yes, but likely for the reason I listed above.
>>> BIOS, yes, I see it has option to boot from so many different
>>> devices (4,5 or 6 different options I don't know them all <g>).
>>> I know some like CD-ROM, Hard Drive, Floppy, External Card ..
>>> and it has few more I don't even know what they are to remember.
>>> Yes, if has option to boot from different hard drive,
>> They always do and have done for a long time now.
>>> or option to re-anarage the hard drive's.
>> Not with the letter they get if that's what you mean. That's done by the OS.
> Not the letter, just the order of the hard drives. Example
> like below (they have more info but I make it shorter)
> ... and I don't even know exactly what it does.. booting order?
Yeah, that's what that will be.
> But I don't think I will need to know much about this (?)
Yeah, its not likely to be relevant.
> It's still running... still dunno where 46GB of drive C: has gone for
> vacation. I guess I can find a backup program to backup drive C:
> to one of my portable storages (I use to store digital photos while
> shooting events or out of states) then re-partition, re-format to see
> if I can get back the 46GB (it may take awhile as I am not hurry).
Its likely just got the partition table scrambled on the 100G drive.
Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote:
> Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote:
>
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>> <snip>
>>>>> I guess its possible that the flakey motherboard is somehow
>>>>> getting in the road of the interrogation of the drive on its
>>>>> details, particularly the size it claims to be, but I have never
>>>>> seen that happen.
>>>>
>>>>> What does Everest have to say about the drive ?
>>>>> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
>>>
>>>> I am downloading it now, but I don't know if it will find anything
>>>> while the system is running (it has been runing for 24 hrs now),
>>>
>>> Thats a check to see if there is any problem with the hard drive
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> If there isnt, its more evidence that the problem is outside the
>>> drive.
>>
>> I downloaded, installed, and looking at the report right now. I
>> haven't found any option to do any specific test but just run and
>> check the report.
>>
>> - Computer Summary
>>
>> Drive C: 100GB (93GB)
>>
>> - Storage (Local Drives)
>>
>> Drive C: = 57498MB (used 17G, free 40GB)
>>
>> Hahaha even Everest gives me 2 different reports <bg>
>
> <snip>
>
> Some correction here. Everest reports 3 hard drives
>
> - Computer Summary
>
> 1. 100GB
> 2. 250GB
> 3 250GB
>
> - Sorage (Local Devices)
>
> 1. Drive C = 56GB
>
> So, Everest does detect the 100GB drive, but like Win XP it doesn't
> know where the 44GB's gone.
Likely the partition table on that drive has got scrambled,
maybe due to a problem with the drive, but more likely
due to a problem outside the drive. The Everest SMART
report should show whether the drive itself has a problem.
Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> I downloaded, installed, and looking at the report right now.
>>>> I haven't found any option to do any specific test but just run
>>>> and check the report.
>>>> - Computer Summary
>>>> Drive C: 100GB (93GB)
>>>> - Storage (Local Drives)
>>>> Drive C: = 57498MB (used 17G, free 40GB)
>>>> Hahaha even Everest gives me 2 different reports <bg>
>>> Some correction here. Everest reports 3 hard drives
>>> - Computer Summary
>>> 1. 100GB
>>> 2. 250GB
>>> 3 250GB
>>> - Sorage (Local Devices)
>>> 1. Drive C = 56GB
>>> So, Everest does detect the 100GB drive, but like
>>> Win XP it doesn't know where the 44GB's gone.
>> Likely the partition table on that drive has got scrambled,
>> maybe due to a problem with the drive, but more likely
>> due to a problem outside the drive. The Everest SMART
>> report should show whether the drive itself has a problem.
> That's what it seems happening, and the whole thing
> is so weird that I have never seen before. Lets see
> 1. First the system started locking up for about
> 3-4 days (or 4-5 day?) then won't boot
Thats likely when the partition table got stomped on.
> 2. After the first several locking up it gave the option
> to press F1 to continue and it ran for few hrs.
Some bios will do that if it gets confused about the
cpu params for some reason, essentially gets you to
confirm that the cpu params are appropriate with F1.
> 3. CMOS still recognize the 100GB but changed from Master to Slave
Thats the really weird bit. I meant to suggest checking the
drive jumpering before and managed to forget to do that.
If both drives arent correctly jumpered, quite a few pairs will come
up fine even with incorrect jumper settings. Its possible that with
incorrect jumper settings you might get a different result on some boots.
The other possibility is a flakey cable with the drives jumpered for cable select.
Another obvious possibility is either a flakey jumper itself, too loose,
or a dry joint or cracked trace associated with the jumpers on one drive.
> and won't boot
That may just be due to either the bios now attempting
to boot the wrong drive once the master/slave stuff has
changed, or due to the relatively complex NT boot process
getting confused by the master/slave stuff changing.
> 4. After I replaced the dead fan of the
> video card the system works again,
I bet that's a coincidence and whatever flakeyness caused
the master/slave stuff to change changed back again and
would have done that even if you hadnt changed the fan.
> but the 100GB drive becomes 56GB.
Likely thats just a damaged partition table and may well
have happened earlier, when it would no longer boot.
> Everest and CMOS still recognize 100GB but not Windows.
Because the partition table is damaged.
> Also, Everest recognizes as 100GB drive but also report 56GB total.
Because it gets the data from the drive itself, and from the partition table too.
> I checked (a little) drive C: to find any strange folder or file
> (since I just reinstalled Win XP few weeks and only use this for
> Windows so don't have lot of junks) and didn't find any, I also
> SORTED by SIZE hoping to detect easier but can't find any large file
> either.
I bet its the partition table thats the problem.
> But didn't check very closely so I am not 100% sure,
> so right now partition is the only thing left ... but still
> can't figure out how or what can change the partition
Likely that happened when the master/slave changed.
> (but seem like it did fool the CMOS about the Mster/Slave ...
> but how it changed them back to normal??????).
You could certainly get that with something intermittent in what determines
the master/slave, the jumpering or bad cable if cable select is used.
> It's just so weird <bg>
You should put heaps of garlic into the case and drive a
stake thru its 'heart' at midnight on a night of the full moon |-(
Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA
Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> 1. First the system started locking up for about
>>> 3-4 days (or 4-5 day?) then won't boot
>> Thats likely when the partition table got stomped on.
> Hard drive is what I think
Yeah, could be with that master/slave changing if that did actually happen.
> and also hoping the problem is hard drive than either mboard or CPU
Very unlikely indeed to be the cpu, they usually work or they dont.
>>> 2. After the first several locking up it gave the option
>>> to press F1 to continue and it ran for few hrs.
>> Some bios will do that if it gets confused about the
>> cpu params for some reason, essentially gets you to
>> confirm that the cpu params are appropriate with F1.
> F1 to continue is the problem I have with my grandkids' system,
> for some reason none of my systems like Maxtor drive (it's 250GB)
> so I took it off my system and installed on my grandkids' system.
> And about 95-99% it pasues at botting and give the 2 options.
> 1. F1 to continue without Maxtor 250GB
Does it actually name the drive like that or is it
actually asking about booting with no hard drive ?
> 2. DEL to go to CMOS to enable it (again)
> for system to recognize the Maxtor.
You can get that effect with elderly systems that expect
the drive to spin up quite quickly and dont allow enough
time for the drive to spin up in the hard drive polling phase.
You may be able to fix that by turning off the quick memory
check in the bios. That takes longer and so gives the drive
more time to spin up before it polls for drives.
The Everest SMART report should list the spin up
time and you may find that that is longer than normal.
It can be longer than normal if the 12V rail is below spec too.
Best to check that with a multimeter if you have one, the
voltages shown in the bios if it can do that arent that accurate.
> For some reason I just don't have any luck with Maxtor drive,
> I don't remember the exact size but my first Maxtor was under
> 100MB (probably around 60-60MB?), then I moved up to
> around 180MB (?), then around 350-380MB, and the last
> one was about 500MB then I decided to stop using Maxtor.
You arent alone on that. And they have a real tendency
to die early if they dont get adequate cooling too.
> One thing, all Maxtor HD had 5-yrs warrantee and Maxtor
> replaced without question asked, I just toss the older one
> cuz they became too small to upgrade to karger drive.
> Then 16-20 years later, I guessed it would get
> better so I decided to give 250GB Maxtor a try.
> This one worked on my system for about 3 months before
> I acted up, Maxtor replaced it and I decided not to install on
> my system, so I tried to install in the external case enclosure
> and I can't get it to work.. then I decided to install it on my
> grandkids' system and have been getting the F1 = continue <bg>
I'd put a stake thru its heart too |-)
You sure you stopped that furious drunken grave dancing you were warned about ?
> Hahaha that's my old F1 story <g>
>>> 3. CMOS still recognize the 100GB but changed from Master to Slave
>> Thats the really weird bit. I meant to suggest checking the
>> drive jumpering before and managed to forget to do that.
> I know it's so weird so I don't want to re-partition or re-format the
> HD hoping some weird idea may pop out, and to have the chance
> to know the main reason causing the problem. IOW, I don't care
> about the HD as I already got the 500GB ready to replace it
Yeah, I prefer to understand what's going on rather than just give up.
>> If both drives arent correctly jumpered, quite a few pairs will come
>> up fine even with incorrect jumper settings. Its possible that with
>> incorrect jumper settings you might get a different result on some
>> boots.
> Yup! both HDs have to have correct jumper for them to work 1-2 years before,
Nope. Plenty of drives will work fine with incorrect jumpering.
> and about 6 months on newer system, and still working now
> (after it decided to work again). And yes, I did check the
> jumper and even changed the cable but none worked until
> I changed the fan of video card (it's still too weird...
You can get an effect like that with an intermittent fault,
either a flakey jumper which doesnt always make good
contact with the pins, or a drive which has a dry joint
or cracked trace associated with the jumper pins.
> and I still think may be something else not the fan ..
Cant see how it could possibly be the fan.
Its gotta be a coincidence.
I guess a bad fan might conceivably load down the 12V
rail to below specs, but its regulated down to lower
voltages on the motherboard so that shouldnt affect the
motherboard. Might affect the hard drive tho in theory, but
its used for the rotation motor, not the logic on the hard drive.
> but who knows?).
>> The other possibility is a flakey cable
>> with the drives jumpered for cable select.
>> Another obvious possibility is either a flakey jumper itself, too loose,
>> or a dry joint or cracked trace associated with the jumpers on one drive.
>>> and won't boot
>> That may just be due to either the bios now attempting
>> to boot the wrong drive once the master/slave stuff has
>> changed, or due to the relatively complex NT boot process
>> getting confused by the master/slave stuff changing.
>>> 4. After I replaced the dead fan of the
>>> video card the system works again,
>> I bet that's a coincidence and whatever flakeyness caused
>> the master/slave stuff to change changed back again and
>> would have done that even if you hadnt changed the fan.
>>> but the 100GB drive becomes 56GB.
>> Likely thats just a damaged partition table and may well
>> have happened earlier, when it would no longer boot.
> .. and I didn't (still haven't) even have the chance to look
> at the the partition to fix or change the partition ... so,
> whatever damaged/changed the partition, and whatever
> fixed the damaged partition is still a mystery <g>
It didnt necessarily ever get fixed. When the master/slave was
back the way it was initially, that may well have allowed it to
boot when it couldnt boot with it the wrong way around, and the
partition table blemish just affects the size reported at the OS level.
>>> Everest and CMOS still recognize 100GB but not Windows.
>> Because the partition table is damaged.
>>> Also, Everest recognizes as 100GB drive but also report 56GB total.
>> Because it gets the data from the drive itself, and from the partition table too.
>>> I checked (a little) drive C: to find any strange folder or file
>>> (since I just reinstalled Win XP few weeks and only use this for
>>> Windows so don't have lot of junks) and didn't find any, I also
>>> SORTED by SIZE hoping to detect easier but can't find any large file
>>> either.
>> I bet its the partition table thats the problem.
>>> But didn't check very closely so I am not 100% sure,
>>> so right now partition is the only thing left ... but still
>>> can't figure out how or what can change the partition
>> Likely that happened when the master/slave changed.
>>> (but seem like it did fool the CMOS about the Mster/Slave ...
>>> but how it changed them back to normal??????).
>> You could certainly get that with something intermittent in what determines
>> the master/slave, the jumpering or bad cable if cable select is used.
>>> It's just so weird <bg>
>> You should put heaps of garlic into the case and drive a
>> stake thru its 'heart' at midnight on a night of the full moon |-(
> It's already too late now (it's late Sunday evening), next
> Sunday I will spray it with the Holly Water for good <g>
Re: Problem already solved but Iwant to learn what caused the problem. TIA 
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