I am starting to work on the specifications for a new PVR (Personal
Video Recorder). It will be PC-based but in a set top box. It will
have two 5 1/2 bays so I can mount an NEC 3550 burner and a HDD
removable bay.
Can anyone recommend a removable drive bay that uses DIN connectors
instead of Centronics?
I am also considering SATA HDDs where the connector is not an issue.
This drive will have a matching bay on my computer so I can swap it
back and forth. I also plan to connect Ethernet so I can swap files
around.
--
Govt is an insult to human dignity. With or without govt,
you would have good people doing good things and evil
people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil
things, that takes govt. Govt is the root of all evil.
> I am starting to work on the specifications for a new PVR
> (Personal Video Recorder). It will be PC-based but in a
> set top box. It will have two 5 1/2 bays so I can mount
> an NEC 3550 burner and a HDD removable bay.
> Can anyone recommend a removable drive bay
> that uses DIN connectors instead of Centronics?
> I am also considering SATA HDDs where the connector is not an issue.
It only makes sense to use sata removable drive bays
because only those dont flout the appropriate standard.
> This drive will have a matching bay on my computer so I can swap it
> back and forth. I also plan to connect Ethernet so I can swap files around.
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 04:47:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can anyone recommend a removable drive bay
>> that uses DIN connectors instead of Centronics?
>> I am also considering SATA HDDs where the connector is not an issue.
>It only makes sense to use sata removable drive bays
>because only those dont flout the appropriate standard.
Unfortunately SATA is not implemented on HDD DVDRs. But if I build a
PVR, I am likely to use SATA for several reasons, one of which you
point out. The PVR must have a removable drive bay, even though it may
have Ethernet. It all depends on the motherboard. If the MB is
PC-based, then I can have PATA, SATA, USB and Ethernet. If however
someone comes up with a special PVR MB, stripped down to save space,
then it may not have USB or Ethernet, in which case a removable HDD
bay would be necessary.
Dell Computer has gotten into the Home Entertainment arena, so it is
probably only a matter of time before they will offer PVRs in various
states of build thru their custom shop. Get their in-home extended
warranty and you will have the system of a lifetime. No more crappy
lasers burning out right after the warranty expires(*).
---
(*) The paranoid mentality would claim that the manufacturers record
the first day of use from the clock setting, and count down the
warranty period. Then they hit the laser with destructive voltages so
it rapidly deteriorates, providing "planned obsolescence".
But we know they don't do anything of the sort, don't we.
--
Govt is an insult to human dignity. With or without govt,
you would have good people doing good things and evil
people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil
things, that takes govt. Govt is the root of all evil.
Citizen Bob <spam@uce.gov> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Can anyone recommend a removable drive bay
>>> that uses DIN connectors instead of Centronics?
>>> I am also considering SATA HDDs where the connector is not an issue.
>> It only makes sense to use sata removable drive bays
>> because only those dont flout the appropriate standard.
> Unfortunately SATA is not implemented on HDD DVDRs.
Doesnt matter if you arent using one.
> But if I build a PVR, I am likely to use SATA for several reasons,
> one of which you point out. The PVR must have a removable
> drive bay, even though it may have Ethernet. It all depends
> on the motherboard. If the MB is PC-based,
I think you'd be mad to use anything else myself.
> then I can have PATA, SATA, USB and Ethernet. If however someone
> comes up with a special PVR MB, stripped down to save space,
I doubt anyone will bother.
> then it may not have USB or Ethernet,
In fact many of the media centers do come with all that, and wireless too now.
> in which case a removable HDD bay would be necessary.
> Dell Computer has gotten into the Home Entertainment arena,
> so it is probably only a matter of time before they will offer
> PVRs in various states of build thru their custom shop. Get their
> in-home extended warranty and you will have the system of a lifetime.
I'd rather build it myself, in fact I've done just that.
> No more crappy lasers burning out right after the warranty expires(*).
Complete yawn with DVD burners so cheap now.
> ---
>
> (*) The paranoid mentality would claim that the manufacturers record
> the first day of use from the clock setting, and count down the
> warranty period. Then they hit the laser with destructive voltages
> so it rapidly deteriorates, providing "planned obsolescence".
> But we know they don't do anything of the sort, don't we.
Nope, its just another mindless conspiracy theory.
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 04:41:17 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>If however someone
>>comes up with a special PVR MB, stripped down to save space,
>I doubt anyone will bother.
PVRs are going to become very popular once the manufacturers offer an
alternative to Windows Media Center.
Imagine a DVDR that you can use the DVD burner and HDD of your choice.
And then there's the matter of a dual channel TV card so you can
record two programs at the same time. Add an IR sensor and a
programmable remote like the UEIC product line and you have a custom
configured PVR. Throw in Ethernet and you can program the system using
VNC from your main computer. You can also stream all those files you
just downloaded.
You still need an operating system of some sort, even if it is just an
embedded standalone application which mimicks the standard DVDR
functions. I won't use Windows MC because those assholes at MS have
put every conceivable DRM crap in it. Anyway, when I get away from the
computer to watch DVDs the last thing I want to stare in the face is
another piece of crap Windows.
There are a couple attempts to build an embedded application, but they
are not quite ready for prime time. Maybe a year from now.
The entire DVD industry is at the knee region of the exponential
growth curve, so we can expect a real explosion of innovative things
to come in the next year. Two years ago, just about everything they
sold fell apart in less than a year. Last year the units managed to
last a year before they fell apart. This year the expectations are
that they will last a couple years. The smartest thing you can do is
buy an extended warranty.
>> then it may not have USB or Ethernet,
>In fact many of the media centers do come with all that, and wireless too now.
It is still hard to find USB on DVDRs and next to impossible to find
Ethernet, even on the expensive units.
>I'd rather build it myself, in fact I've done just that.
Did you publish your plans? I would be interested in finding out what
you used, especially the software.
>> No more crappy lasers burning out right after the warranty expires(*).
>Complete yawn with DVD burners so cheap now.
Actually I was talking about the crap they put in DVDRs.
The lasers in excellent products like the NEC 3550 won't burn out in a
year or two. Plus the laser alignment mechanism is much more
sophistocated in units like the 3550 compared to the junk in DVDRs. No
wonder they quit working so quickly.
We both know that heat is the killer of electronics, and those DVDRs
on the market are far too cramped to keep things cool. I just got a
Polaroid DRM-2001G HDD DVDR at WalMart for $220 which I am evaluating
for 90 days. It has a built in fan which if you are very quiet you can
barely hear running. Nevertheless I put the unit on 1" standoffs to
get more airflow underneath. Just something as simple as that
measurably lowered the case temperature.
--
Govt is an insult to human dignity. With or without govt,
you would have good people doing good things and evil
people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil
things, that takes govt. Govt is the root of all evil.
Citizen Bob <spam@uce.gov> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Citizen Bob <spam@uce.gov> wrote
>>> If however someone comes up with a special
>>> PVR MB, stripped down to save space,
>> I doubt anyone will bother.
> PVRs are going to become very popular once the
> manufacturers offer an alternative to Windows Media Center.
Sure, but there isnt a lot of point in a STIPPED DOWN PVR MB
when all the normal smaller motherboards will do fine in a PVR.
> Imagine a DVDR that you can use the DVD burner and HDD of
> your choice. And then there's the matter of a dual channel TV
> card so you can record two programs at the same time.
Sure, and I have assembled one of those myself, with 4 channels in fact.
You dont need a special STRIPPED DOWN motherboard and
in fact there is a lot to be said for using a standard motherboard
so you arent limited by the number of channels you can have.
> Add an IR sensor and a programmable remote like the UEIC
> product line and you have a custom configured PVR. Throw in
> Ethernet and you can program the system using VNC from your main
> computer. You can also stream all those files you just downloaded.
Yep, I do all that with a standard motherboard, in fact what used to
be the main system motherboard thats rather long in the tooth now.
Its only 900MHz celeron and it records 4 channels fine and plays back
at the same time fine and you can burn DVDs at the same time fine too.
> You still need an operating system of some sort, even if it is
> just an embedded standalone application which mimicks the
> standard DVDR functions. I won't use Windows MC because
> those assholes at MS have put every conceivable DRM crap in it.
Yeah, I just use XP Pro.
> Anyway, when I get away from the computer to watch DVDs the
> last thing I want to stare in the face is another piece of crap Windows.
I dont care and have a dedicated monitor on that PC, switching the
keyboard and mouse between that and the main PC using Synergy.
> There are a couple attempts to build an embedded application, but
> they are not quite ready for prime time. Maybe a year from now.
WebScheduler works fine for me.
> The entire DVD industry is at the knee region of the
> exponential growth curve, so we can expect a real
> explosion of innovative things to come in the next year.
I dont bother with DVD that much except to use DVD+RWs
for overflow storage. The main downside with digital DVRs
is that they use drive space like there is no tommorrow,
2-3G/channel/hour so I can need 50G of storage per evening
and I dont currently just record the entire evening on each
channel, I only record what I am likely to want to watch instead.
I play recorded stuff on the PVR, with
TV out to the big glass widescreen TV.
I used to mostly write the downloaded movies and TV series
to DVD+RW and play it on a multiformat DVD player, but now
I mostly just play them on the main system with another TV out.
> Two years ago, just about everything they sold fell apart
> in less than a year. Last year the units managed to last
> a year before they fell apart. This year the expectations
> are that they will last a couple years. The smartest thing
> you can do is buy an extended warranty.
I just recognise that DVD dual layer burners are now
so cheap that I just yawn if they dont last that long.
No point in an extended warranty, easier to buy a new drive.
>>> then it may not have USB or Ethernet,
>> In fact many of the media centers do come
>> with all that, and wireless too now.
> It is still hard to find USB on DVDRs and next to
> impossible to find Ethernet, even on the expensive units.
That isnt true with media centers.
>> I'd rather build it myself, in fact I've done just that.
> Did you publish your plans?
Its too simple to need any. I just have 4 digital TV tuner cards
in a very basic PC with a dual layer DVD burner in it, using XP
Pro as the OS and WebScheduler to do the actual recording.
> I would be interested in finding out what
> you used, especially the software.
See above.
>>> No more crappy lasers burning out right after the warranty expires(*).
>> Complete yawn with DVD burners so cheap now.
> Actually I was talking about the crap they put in DVDRs.
Another good reason to avoid those.
They dont have 4 channels either.
> The lasers in excellent products like the NEC 3550 won't burn
> out in a year or two. Plus the laser alignment mechanism is
> much more sophistocated in units like the 3550 compared
> to the junk in DVDRs. No wonder they quit working so quickly.
> We both know that heat is the killer of electronics, and those DVDRs
> on the market are far too cramped to keep things cool. I just got a
> Polaroid DRM-2001G HDD DVDR at WalMart for $220 which I am
> evaluating for 90 days. It has a built in fan which if you are very quiet you can
> barely hear running.
I deliberately chose very quite components for the DVR PC,
Intel's boxed fan, a very quiet power supply, no case fans at all.
> Nevertheless I put the unit on 1" standoffs to get more
> airflow underneath. Just something as simple as that
> measurably lowered the case temperature.
Sure, but that is another reason for assembling it yourself
by adding digital TV tuner cards to a basic PC. I dont care
if it doesnt look like a DVD player etc.
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 06:52:19 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Imagine a DVDR that you can use the DVD burner and HDD of
>> your choice. And then there's the matter of a dual channel TV
>> card so you can record two programs at the same time.
>Sure, and I have assembled one of those myself, with 4 channels in fact.
What software did you use?
>You dont need a special STRIPPED DOWN motherboard and
>in fact there is a lot to be said for using a standard motherboard
>so you arent limited by the number of channels you can have.
I would prefer to use a standard MB for several reasons. But I was
concerned about space and heat.
What kind of enclosure do you use for your standard MBs?
>Yep, I do all that with a standard motherboard, in fact what used to
>be the main system motherboard thats rather long in the tooth now.
>Its only 900MHz celeron and it records 4 channels fine and plays back
>at the same time fine and you can burn DVDs at the same time fine too.
Way too cool. I gotta get the specs from you.
>> You still need an operating system of some sort, even if it is
>> just an embedded standalone application which mimicks the
>> standard DVDR functions. I won't use Windows MC because
>> those assholes at MS have put every conceivable DRM crap in it.
>Yeah, I just use XP Pro.
I suppose I could use Win2K, or are there any major issues in this
application?
>> Anyway, when I get away from the computer to watch DVDs the
>> last thing I want to stare in the face is another piece of crap Windows.
>
>I dont care and have a dedicated monitor on that PC, switching the
>keyboard and mouse between that and the main PC using Synergy.
>
>> There are a couple attempts to build an embedded application, but
>> they are not quite ready for prime time. Maybe a year from now.
>
>WebScheduler works fine for me.
>I dont bother with DVD that much except to use DVD+RWs
>for overflow storage. The main downside with digital DVRs
>is that they use drive space like there is no tommorrow,
>2-3G/channel/hour so I can need 50G of storage per evening
>and I dont currently just record the entire evening on each
>channel, I only record what I am likely to want to watch instead.
Can't you lower the resolution to 4 hours (so-called "EP")?
>I just recognise that DVD dual layer burners are now
>so cheap that I just yawn if they dont last that long.
>No point in an extended warranty, easier to buy a new drive.
I was thinking of the lasers in DVDRs. I would never buy an extended
warranty for a DVD burner for the very reason you gave.
Unfortunately DVDRs do not allow the substitution of DVD burners so
you are stuck with the crap they put in the DVDRs.
>> Did you publish your plans?
>Its too simple to need any. I just have 4 digital TV tuner cards
Which kind?
How about dual channel cards like the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE?
>in a very basic PC with a dual layer DVD burner in it, using XP
>Pro as the OS and WebScheduler to do the actual recording.
What about the IR sensor and remote control?
>> Actually I was talking about the crap they put in DVDRs.
>Another good reason to avoid those.
Until I build a PVR I have no choice.
>Sure, but that is another reason for assembling it yourself
>by adding digital TV tuner cards to a basic PC. I dont care
>if it doesnt look like a DVD player etc.
Neither do I but I would still prefer not having a tower in the TV
room.
--
Govt is an insult to human dignity. With or without govt,
you would have good people doing good things and evil
people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil
things, that takes govt. Govt is the root of all evil.
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:01:45 GMT, spam@uce.gov (Citizen Bob)
wrote:
>>> You still need an operating system of some sort, even if it is
>>> just an embedded standalone application which mimicks the
>>> standard DVDR functions. I won't use Windows MC because
>>> those assholes at MS have put every conceivable DRM crap in it.
>
>>Yeah, I just use XP Pro.
>
>I suppose I could use Win2K, or are there any major issues in this
>application?
>
in *general*, no, Win2k can work fine for a HTPC. Specifics
are another matter though, you should make a list of all the
real requirements so you can weigh them against any
pros/cons of win2k.
Typical uses like running a software front end, or the video
tuner/capture card software will be fine on win2k. Some
later video codecs bundled with XP can be installed on 2k,
though some of those are even needing added to XP, all
depending on exactly what you're trying to do.
Generally speaking, any codec the video capture software
claims supported is either present in the OS they spec as
compatible, or installed with the software. Some cards have
support for 3rd party codecs like Divx, which will need
installed on any OS you'd choose. Then of course there's
the OS licensing- if you had one license for whichever, you
might not find moving to the other OS enough of a benefit to
care, as even though some bloat is added to XP, it can be
disabled. Further stripping down of either OS can be done
prior to installation, plus service packs and other patches
with "nLite" (Google it).
>>I dont bother with DVD that much except to use DVD+RWs
>>for overflow storage. The main downside with digital DVRs
>>is that they use drive space like there is no tommorrow,
>>2-3G/channel/hour so I can need 50G of storage per evening
>>and I dont currently just record the entire evening on each
>>channel, I only record what I am likely to want to watch instead.
>
>Can't you lower the resolution to 4 hours (so-called "EP")?
You can lower resolution, but IMO, most people don't want
to- we can't decide that for you. When I was capturing on a
system with limited drive space I just captured straight to
Divx because the software supported doing so. It wasn't a
primary or secondary system, just a spare I'd set up for
recording so eventually I'd filled up the HDD and then just
captured to Divx straight to a drive in a NAS, the files
never touched the HDD on the HTPC after that point... which
is your call to make too, I did it also because it was more
convenient to stream to any other systems, as this capturing
system I'd already described didn't stay turned on 24/7
while the NAS does, so saving to the NAS meant constant
availability of the files, including playback on the
capturing system if necessary.
>>Sure, but that is another reason for assembling it yourself
>>by adding digital TV tuner cards to a basic PC. I dont care
>>if it doesnt look like a DVD player etc.
>
>Neither do I but I would still prefer not having a tower in the TV
>room.
Pick out the case you want first, keeping in mind how many
cards you'll need, whether that case needs accomodate full
ATX boards or if mATX will do, AND how tall those cards are,
whether a low-profile case will work. If you use hardware
MPEG2 encoder cards like the one you mentioned (or another
of course), you don't need a powerful CPU in the system
unless it's for high-res playback on a software applying a
lot of realtime filtering.
Capturing to a soft(ware)-codec will require more CPU
muscle, but then you get the space savings... but if you're
wanting MPEG2 for set-top players' compatibility sake,
there's no point in doing that in software unless you need a
higher resolution than the encoder card supports (or a
higher framerate, some of the really picky folks are
capturing to higher than 30 FPS and I have to admit it does
look nicer but again it's a person decision whether you want
to do that and if your source supports it or even looks
better or just ends up as larger files).
Citizen Bob <spam@uce.gov> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Imagine a DVDR that you can use the DVD burner and HDD of
>>> your choice. And then there's the matter of a dual channel TV
>>> card so you can record two programs at the same time.
>> Sure, and I have assembled one of those myself, with 4 channels in fact.
> What software did you use?
WebScheduler.
>> You dont need a special STRIPPED DOWN motherboard and
>> in fact there is a lot to be said for using a standard motherboard
>> so you arent limited by the number of channels you can have.
> I would prefer to use a standard MB for several reasons.
> But I was concerned about space and heat.
> What kind of enclosure do you use for your standard MBs?
Dirt cheap non name tower cases. I dont bother with the covers.
>> Yep, I do all that with a standard motherboard, in fact what used to
>> be the main system motherboard thats rather long in the tooth now.
>> Its only 900MHz celeron and it records 4 channels fine and plays back
>> at the same time fine and you can burn DVDs at the same time fine too.
> Way too cool. I gotta get the specs from you.
Its completely bog standard with 4 digital TV tuner cards.
If I was doing it again now I'd used 2 dual channel digital TV tuner cards.
>>> You still need an operating system of some sort, even if it is
>>> just an embedded standalone application which mimicks the
>>> standard DVDR functions. I won't use Windows MC because
>>> those assholes at MS have put every conceivable DRM crap in it.
>> Yeah, I just use XP Pro.
> I suppose I could use Win2K, or are there any major issues in this application?
I havent tried it but I doubt it. Should work fine.
>>> Anyway, when I get away from the computer to watch DVDs the
>>> last thing I want to stare in the face is another piece of crap Windows.
>> I dont care and have a dedicated monitor on that PC, switching the
>> keyboard and mouse between that and the main PC using Synergy.
>>> There are a couple attempts to build an embedded application, but
>>> they are not quite ready for prime time. Maybe a year from now.
>> I dont bother with DVD that much except to use DVD+RWs
>> for overflow storage. The main downside with digital DVRs
>> is that they use drive space like there is no tommorrow,
>> 2-3G/channel/hour so I can need 50G of storage per evening
>> and I dont currently just record the entire evening on each
>> channel, I only record what I am likely to want to watch instead.
> Can't you lower the resolution to 4 hours (so-called "EP")?
Nope.
>> I just recognise that DVD dual layer burners are now
>> so cheap that I just yawn if they dont last that long.
>> No point in an extended warranty, easier to buy a new drive.
> I was thinking of the lasers in DVDRs. I would never buy an
> extended warranty for a DVD burner for the very reason you gave.
> Unfortunately DVDRs do not allow the substitution of DVD burners
> so you are stuck with the crap they put in the DVDRs.
Yeah, that's another reason I avoid them.
>>> Did you publish your plans?
>> Its too simple to need any. I just have 4 digital TV tuner cards
> Which kind?
DigitalNow DVTV Live.
> How about dual channel cards like the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE?
Yeah, I'd definitely go dual channel if I was doing it again.
They werent available when I assembled it.
The Hauppauge should be fine.
>> in a very basic PC with a dual layer DVD burner in it, using XP
>> Pro as the OS and WebScheduler to do the actual recording.
> What about the IR sensor and remote control?
I dont bother with a remote. I just use the
standard keyboard and mouse using Synergy.
>>> Actually I was talking about the crap they put in DVDRs.
>> Another good reason to avoid those.
> Until I build a PVR I have no choice.
>> Sure, but that is another reason for assembling it yourself
>> by adding digital TV tuner cards to a basic PC. I dont care
>> if it doesnt look like a DVD player etc.
> Neither do I but I would still prefer not having a tower in the TV room.
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 05:58:14 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>If I was doing it again now I'd used 2 dual channel digital TV tuner cards.
Which brand and model?
I am only aware of the Hauppauge offering in dual channel cards.
>> Can't you lower the resolution to 4 hours (so-called "EP")?
>Nope.
Which brings up a question about the on-board MPEG encoders. It is my
understanding that the only ones available are MPEG2.
If I need MPEG2 DVD format (VOBs) I can convert quickly and easily
with ConvertXtoDVD. But to pull off capturing to AVIs, you need to be
able to control the resolution parameters, which are typically frame
size and bitrate.
>> Neither do I but I would still prefer not having a tower in the TV room.
>I dont care myself.
There is a way to separate the capture process from the playing
process. There are Ethernet-based devices that are players only that
connect to the TV and use a remote. They are fed by a computer
elsewhere. Hauppauge calls their version a " MediaMVP Digital Media
Player for Home Network w/ Remote Control"
That is representative - I have not done an exhaustive search. It
presumably also plays DivX, which means it should be able to do XviD
AVIs. There is a wireless version of the MVP with 802.11G built in.
Therefore you could use your DVB computer to capture the TV shows and
store them on hard disk. You really do not need to be sitting in front
of a TV to schedule and capture TV programs - that can be done in a
broom closet if you wanted.
As long as you have a LAN connection you can play the video files on
the player unit and get to use a remote control. In fact you can
network these two together directly with a crossover cable and not
have to connect it to the house LAN. That way you can hide the
computer out of the way.
However when it comes to playing DVDs, you will have to use the
computer to play them, which is a slight nuisance. However it is easy
enough to put the DVD on hard disk temporarily.
I wonder if you can use a dual channel Hauppauge card (or two single
channel cards) in a 2.4GHZ Celeron D computer and run DVB in
background. If so I could use my main computer.
The shows I record are typically at night when I do not use the
computer, so DVB would have the machine all to itself. However, I can
get a used P3 machine from Directron for $69 which at 933 MHz should
be sufficient processing power for two channels:
so this is really not a big deal. I prefer a KVM box and there are
some good ones out there for a reasonable price.
If I could pull that off, then for a couple hundred bucks I would have
a PVR system that does exactly what I want with one exception: MPEG4
decoding.
I would like an MPEG4 TV card so the capture goes directly to an XviD
AVI. I will have to search for one of those unless you or anyone else
knows of one. The Hauppauge dual channel is MPEG2. However MPEG4
(especially XviD) is catching on so Hauppauge will undoubtedly have
one sometime soon, assuming there is a decoder chip available.
--
"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
>>> Can't you lower the resolution to 4 hours (so-called "EP")?
>> Nope.
> Which brings up a question about the on-board MPEG encoders.
> It is my understanding that the only ones available are MPEG2.
Mine certainly are, but I havent checked what is available carefully.
> If I need MPEG2 DVD format (VOBs) I can
> convert quickly and easily with ConvertXtoDVD.
Why do you actually need that ? The only time I actually need that is
when I want to burn a DVD for someone who has an elderly DVD player
that cant play the dvr-ms files I normally capture or the ts files.
If its for your own use, I dont find its worth burning DVDs to play them
myself, and if you insist on doing that, it makes a lot more sense to get
a DVD player that can play the mpeg files directly instead. They dont
necessarily cost any more than basic DVD players.
> But to pull off capturing to AVIs, you need to be able to control the
> resolution parameters, which are typically frame size and bitrate.
Yes, again, I dont need to do that, better to play it in the captured format instead.
>>> Neither do I but I would still prefer not having a tower in the TV room.
>> I dont care myself.
> There is a way to separate the capture process from the playing
> process. There are Ethernet-based devices that are players only
> that connect to the TV and use a remote. They are fed by a
> computer elsewhere. Hauppauge calls their version a " MediaMVP
> Digital Media Player for Home Network w/ Remote Control"
Yes, they will play almost anything, including mpeg files, dvr-ms files and ts files.
> Therefore you could use your DVB computer to capture the
> TV shows and store them on hard disk. You really do not
> need to be sitting in front of a TV to schedule and capture TV
> programs - that can be done in a broom closet if you wanted.
Yes, I just find it convenient to setup the schedule of what I want
to record on that system and its most convenient to do that with
a dedicated screen for the PVR and to use synergy to switch
the keyboard and mouse between that and the main system.
The other approach would be to just capture the entire 24 hours
of all 4 channels onto a sufficiently large drive and then watch what
you want to watch from those large files and edit those files back
to the stuff you want to keep with the stuff you dont watch the next
day. You do need to edit tho because of the massive 2-3G/hour/channel
disk space requirement. And editing isnt that fast currently. Since its just
a mindless bit by bit copy of the bit of the file you want, it should be very
quick to just drop the bits you dont want, but none of the current editors
actually bother to do it like that.
> As long as you have a LAN connection you can play the video
> files on the player unit and get to use a remote control. In fact
> you can network these two together directly with a crossover
> cable and not have to connect it to the house LAN. That way
> you can hide the computer out of the way.
Yes, but I dont care about hiding it. I prefer to watch captured
TV with a normal PC off to the side so I can check my database
on what I have watched previously, select what I want to watch
from that database, and do stuff like browse the net for movie
reviews etc to decide what is worth watching etc.
> However when it comes to playing DVDs, you will have to
> use the computer to play them, which is a slight nuisance.
You dont have to, DVD players are so cheap that you might
as well have one of those as well just for the convenience.
I dont bother with DVDs myself, too much farting around.
> However it is easy enough to put the DVD on hard disk temporarily.
Not a lot of point with DVD players so cheap.
> I wonder if you can use a dual channel Hauppauge card (or two
> single channel cards) in a 2.4GHZ Celeron D computer and run
> DVB in background. If so I could use my main computer.
Should be fine.
> The shows I record are typically at night when I do not use the
> computer, so DVB would have the machine all to itself. However,
> I can get a used P3 machine from Directron for $69 which at 933
> MHz should be sufficient processing power for two channels:
Yeah, I run 4 fine on mine which is the same performance.
> so this is really not a big deal. I prefer a KVM box and there
> are some good ones out there for a reasonable price.
You want to try synergy, its much more convenient than a kvm. So
much more convenient that when I am working on a foreign system
I put it on synergy too, even tho I have a 4 channel kvm. Much more
convenient to just mouse over from one monitor to the other.
> If I could pull that off, then for a couple hundred bucks
> I would have a PVR system that does exactly what
> I want with one exception: MPEG4 decoding.
Like I said, I cant see the point in mpeg4 except
as far as hard drive space is concerned.
> I would like an MPEG4 TV card so the capture goes directly to an XviD
> AVI. I will have to search for one of those unless you or anyone else
> knows of one. The Hauppauge dual channel is MPEG2. However MPEG4
> (especially XviD) is catching on so Hauppauge will undoubtedly have
> one sometime soon, assuming there is a decoder chip available.
Trouble is the horsepower required to do the transcoding.
Thats quite a bit even with a modern PC, cant see that it
will be embedded in the capture card any time soon.
I have been considering adding a high horsepower system
to do the transcoding, to reduce the size of the stuff that
I wont be watching soon. Currently I just write those in
the mpeg2 format to DVD+RWs. That does go thru DVD+RWs
tho, you only get a couple of hours per DVD+RW.
But you can make a case that it makes no sense to keep
stuff like that. I basically capture stuff that I might decide
to watch, mostly docos, and dont get around to watching
them so it would make more sense to bin them instead
if I havent watched them in 6 months etc. Basically I am
watching less than I capture and there can never be any
solution to that approach.
I have no need for more than 2 channels since I do not have cable or
satellite - just broadcast channels
>If its for your own use, I dont find its worth burning DVDs to play them
>myself, and if you insist on doing that, it makes a lot more sense to get
>a DVD player that can play the mpeg files directly instead. They dont
>necessarily cost any more than basic DVD players.
I have players and recorders.
I like to make DVDs for my son. I use the AVI format so I can get as
many on a disc as possible. I also rent movies. But your point is well
taken - just use a player connected to a A-B A/V box connected to the
TV.
>Yes, they will play almost anything, including mpeg files, dvr-ms files and ts files.
Then you endorse using one if I were to build the DVB facility on my
main 2.4GHz computer solely for capturing and use a separate DVD
player for DVDs. If I have to make AVIs for DVD storage, then I can
use Auto Gordian Knot.
>You dont have to, DVD players are so cheap that you might
>as well have one of those as well just for the convenience.
Indeed. I was still thinking inside the old box.
>> I wonder if you can use a dual channel Hauppauge card (or two
>> single channel cards) in a 2.4GHZ Celeron D computer and run
>> DVB in background. If so I could use my main computer.
>Should be fine.
I assume the format for captured files is compatible with that
Hauppauge MediaMVP. If they are TS/VOB then the MVP should be able to
play them.
>You want to try synergy, its much more convenient than a kvm.
This is a moot point since you said I could put a dual TV card in my
2.4GHz computer and run DVB.
>I have been considering adding a high horsepower system
>to do the transcoding, to reduce the size of the stuff that
>I wont be watching soon. Currently I just write those in
>the mpeg2 format to DVD+RWs.
Why not use removable hard disks? Fill one up, clean it, fill it
again, and eventually when it fills up completely with saved content,
yank it out and put in an empty disk and start the process over.
Recap: Citizen Bob's PVR:
Hauppauge MediaMVP.
Hauppauge dual channel TV card in my existing computer running DVB
WebScheduler.
LAN connection (I have spare ports on my router).
Separate conventional DVD player connected to A-B A/V box along with
the MVP.
It can't get any simpler than that.
You have been a great help - thanks a bunch.
--
"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
> I have no need for more than 2 channels since I do
> not have cable or satellite - just broadcast channels
OK. I need 4 for just broadcast channels.
>> If its for your own use, I dont find its worth burning DVDs to play them
>> myself, and if you insist on doing that, it makes a lot more sense to get
>> a DVD player that can play the mpeg files directly instead. They dont
>> necessarily cost any more than basic DVD players.
> I have players and recorders.
> I like to make DVDs for my son. I use the AVI format
> so I can get as many on a disc as possible.
OK, I'd transcode on the PC for that, get it to do that overnight etc.
> I also rent movies. But your point is well taken - just use a
> player connected to a A-B A/V box connected to the TV.
>> Yes, they will play almost anything, including
>> mpeg files, dvr-ms files and ts files.
> Then you endorse using one if I were to build the DVB
> facility on my main 2.4GHz computer solely for capturing
> and use a separate DVD player for DVDs.
I currently play what I want to watch on the
PVR too, using the TV out on that system.
One of those media centers would give you
better image quality on the big widescreen TV.
> If I have to make AVIs for DVD storage,
> then I can use Auto Gordian Knot.
There's hordes of things that can transcode
what the card captures into avis.
>> You dont have to, DVD players are so cheap that you might
>> as well have one of those as well just for the convenience.
> Indeed. I was still thinking inside the old box.
>>> I wonder if you can use a dual channel Hauppauge card (or two
>>> single channel cards) in a 2.4GHZ Celeron D computer and run
>>> DVB in background. If so I could use my main computer.
>> Should be fine.
> I assume the format for captured files is compatible
> with that Hauppauge MediaMVP. If they are TS/VOB
> then the MVP should be able to play them.
Yep.
>> You want to try synergy, its much more convenient than a kvm.
> This is a moot point since you said I could put a dual
> TV card in my 2.4GHz computer and run DVB.
True.
>> I have been considering adding a high horsepower system
>> to do the transcoding, to reduce the size of the stuff that
>> I wont be watching soon. Currently I just write those in
>> the mpeg2 format to DVD+RWs.
> Why not use removable hard disks?
Basically DVD+RWs are cheaper per GB.
> Fill one up, clean it, fill it again, and eventually when
> it fills up completely with saved content, yank it out
> and put in an empty disk and start the process over.
Basically DVD+RWs are cheaper per GB.
> Recap: Citizen Bob's PVR:
> Hauppauge MediaMVP.
> Hauppauge dual channel TV card in my
> existing computer running DVB WebScheduler.
> LAN connection (I have spare ports on my router).
> Separate conventional DVD player connected to
> A-B A/V box along with the MVP.
Yes, that will work fine.
> It can't get any simpler than that.
> You have been a great help - thanks a bunch.
No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are all about.
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:30:06 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hauppauge MediaMVP.
>> Hauppauge dual channel TV card in my
>> existing computer running DVB WebScheduler.
>> LAN connection (I have spare ports on my router).
>> Separate conventional DVD player connected to
>> A-B A/V box along with the MVP.
>Yes, that will work fine.
And if I want to avoid buying the MVP I can use a $60 DVD player with
a USB port and a USB external hard disk. And there are DVD recorders
with an Ethernet connection. That would be the ultimate system because
of the recording capability. In fact since I need only 2 channels I
could use the DVB for one and the DVDR for the other. Or I could get
two Ethernet recorders and set one up to play from the HDD on the
other. However there would be a remote control problem.
I like the system we discussed because it puts the acquisition of
content at my main computer. That's where I edit and convert and burn
DVDs. The playing function is really quite separate functionally
except for the feed and that is a simple Ethernet connection. Now the
playing of the content is done with a remote as it should be, with
familiar DVD player screens on the TV.
>> You have been a great help - thanks a bunch.
>No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are all about.
Yeah, but you have been really helpful. Now I know the direction I
want to go. You got me to think outside the DVDR box.
--
"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
Citizen Bob <spam@uce.gov> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Citizen Bob <spam@uce.gov> wrote
>>> Hauppauge MediaMVP.
>>> Hauppauge dual channel TV card in my
>>> existing computer running DVB WebScheduler.
>>> LAN connection (I have spare ports on my router).
>>> Separate conventional DVD player connected to
>>> A-B A/V box along with the MVP.
>> Yes, that will work fine.
> And if I want to avoid buying the MVP I can use a $60
> DVD player with a USB port and a USB external hard disk.
Or just use a video card with TV out.
> And there are DVD recorders with an Ethernet connection. That
> would be the ultimate system because of the recording capability.
I prefer to go the PVR route myself, basically because it makes
the programming of what I want to record much cleaner.
> In fact since I need only 2 channels I could use
> the DVB for one and the DVDR for the other.
I wouldnt myself, because the programming is too messy.
> Or I could get two Ethernet recorders and set one up to play from the
> HDD on the other. However there would be a remote control problem.
And its nowhere near as convenient to program what you want to record.
I may well assemble another 4 channel PVR and have it just record the
entire 24/7 4 broadcast channels in an endless loop, mainly as a backup
for when the program guide is wrong, we get an unusual event like 9/11
which sees the program guide tossed in the bin, or when one of the
digital TV broadcast channels goes flat on its face. I can just use the
recorded analog TV broadcast channel instead.
In other words I wouldnt even touch this machine unless
something has come unstuck, its a pure backup and
what's recorded gets auto written over at say a 2 day cycle.
> I like the system we discussed because it puts the acquisition
> of content at my main computer. That's where I edit and convert
> and burn DVDs. The playing function is really quite separate functionally
> except for the feed and that is a simple Ethernet connection. Now
> the playing of the content is done with a remote as it should be,
> with familiar DVD player screens on the TV.
I prefer to play by automating that from my Access
database so I can play by program guide entry.
>>> You have been a great help - thanks a bunch.
>> No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are all about.
> Yeah, but you have been really helpful. Now I know the direction
> I want to go. You got me to think outside the DVDR box.
No problem, discussing the detail often helps a lot with stuff like that.
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 07:57:53 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> And if I want to avoid buying the MVP I can use a $60
>> DVD player with a USB port and a USB external hard disk.
>Or just use a video card with TV out.
I do not want a computer for a player. I want a DVD player or
equivalent, with a remote control and the basic functionality of a DVD
player.
>I prefer to go the PVR route myself, basically because it makes
>the programming of what I want to record much cleaner.
I agree with you for the capture side, but not for the playback side.
>I prefer to play by automating that from my Access
>database so I can play by program guide entry.
You have far more shows to manage than I do. We watch at most a dozen
shows a week.
--
"Nothing in the world can take the place of perseverence. Talent
will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education
will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent."
--Calvin Coolidge
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