Replacement Cooler for Intel 478

I have a 2.4 GHz Celeron D which is a Socket 478 P4 Prescott chip with
a crippled pipeline cache.

If I run certain video conversion programs, the CPU internal
temperature as measured by MBM5, reaches 58C and then it levels off.
At the same time other processes slow down measurably leading me to
believe the internal clock was slowed down because of the high
temperature.

The problem appears to be made worse when the heat sink gets filled
with lint. I have 4 fans on the case, front, rear, side and PSU. There
are no filters on these or on the other means by which dust can enter
the case.

Please recommend which way the air should flow for each of these fans.
Also recommend an affordable method of keeping dust out of the cooler
assembly. I am considering putting a piece of porous foam on top of
the fan, the black conducting foam you get with boards that are
sensitive to static electricity.

I am also considering getting a replacement cooler but I don't want to
spend a lot of money. My son has a 3.2 GHz P4 Prescott and he had to
get a big Zalman copper-finned cooler with a huge fan. But that's
overkill for me.

http://www.directron.com/cnps7700cu.html

I found two coolers that might work

http://www.directron.com/vp47245.html
http://www.directron.com/sp420b82.html

I am concerned about noise but unfortunately there is a direct
correlation between noise level and air flow rate:

http://www.directron.com/noise.html
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/direc...annoisefigure3

Please let me know your recommendations. If you could provide a link
it would be helpful.

--

"All men seek to be enlightened. Religion is but the most ancient
and honorable way in which men have striven to make sense out of
God's universe. Scientists seek the lawfulness of events. It is
the task of religion to fit man into this lawfulness. Religion
must remain an outlet for people who say to themsleves, 'I am
not the kind of person I want to be'."
--Frank Herbert, "Dune"

"Citizen Bob" <spam@uce.gov> wrote in message
news:458a862c.102466734@news-server.houston.rr.com...
>I have a 2.4 GHz Celeron D which is a Socket 478 P4 Prescott chip with
> a crippled pipeline cache.
>
> If I run certain video conversion programs, the CPU internal
> temperature as measured by MBM5, reaches 58C and then it levels off.
> At the same time other processes slow down measurably leading me to
> believe the internal clock was slowed down because of the high
> temperature.
>
> The problem appears to be made worse when the heat sink gets filled
> with lint. I have 4 fans on the case, front, rear, side and PSU. There
> are no filters on these or on the other means by which dust can enter
> the case.

Hence the increase in temp

> Please recommend which way the air should flow for each of these fans.

Normally CPU fans blow on to the CPU cooler, but I would recommend
benchmarking both ways as every system is different - you might find that
sucking air through your cooler is more efficient.

> Also recommend an affordable method of keeping dust out of the cooler
> assembly. I am considering putting a piece of porous foam on top of
> the fan, the black conducting foam you get with boards that are
> sensitive to static electricity.

If dust is getting into the case, then it has to collect somewhere. By
adding a filter between the fan and target then you simply give the dust
somewhere to collect and will probably reduce airflow more rapidly, than
filtering nothing and doing a regular clean. Perhaps the general environment
should be examined around the PC - is it in a very dusty place? - could it
be moved?

All I can say on coolers is - You said that you don't really think something
large and copper based is relevant as it would be overkill for you, but at
the same time you say that your CPU is getting too hot and you are concerned
about noise.

The correlation is NOT between noise level and air flow rate, but noise
level and fan speed - this is important as a large fan can spin
slowly+silently and move the same amount of air as a small fan spinning
quickly+noisily.

You must decide if your priority is cool, silent, or a combination. A
combination will tend to cost more than just focussing on one or the other.
I say 'tend' because it can be done on the cheap...

I have a silent cooler from Zalman - the "Flower" heatsink with a 120mm fan
blowing over the heatsink. The fan is silent and moves as much air as an
80mm whiney fan would. I also have 2 80mm fans for case-in and case-out, but
both are under volted from 12v to 5v to slow them down and run them
silently. My Athlon 2500+ PC runs silently and never gets above 'warm'. The
only noise is the 'silent' Samsung Spinpoint hard disk.

This setup might not generate enough airflow for your system - benchmark and
test to find out. But you could do something similar with 120mm fans for
more airflow.

Have a look at http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/home for quiet coolers and
fans (and all sorts come to that!) (check their B-Grade pages).

Citizen Bob wrote:
> I have a 2.4 GHz Celeron D which is a Socket 478 P4 Prescott chip with
> a crippled pipeline cache.
>
> If I run certain video conversion programs, the CPU internal
> temperature as measured by MBM5, reaches 58C and then it levels off.
> At the same time other processes slow down measurably leading me to
> believe the internal clock was slowed down because of the high
> temperature.
>
> The problem appears to be made worse when the heat sink gets filled
> with lint. I have 4 fans on the case, front, rear, side and PSU. There
> are no filters on these or on the other means by which dust can enter
> the case.
>
> Please recommend which way the air should flow for each of these fans.
> Also recommend an affordable method of keeping dust out of the cooler
> assembly. I am considering putting a piece of porous foam on top of
> the fan, the black conducting foam you get with boards that are
> sensitive to static electricity.
>
> I am also considering getting a replacement cooler but I don't want to
> spend a lot of money. My son has a 3.2 GHz P4 Prescott and he had to
> get a big Zalman copper-finned cooler with a huge fan. But that's
> overkill for me.
>
> http://www.directron.com/cnps7700cu.html
>
> I found two coolers that might work
>
> http://www.directron.com/vp47245.html
> http://www.directron.com/sp420b82.html
>
> I am concerned about noise but unfortunately there is a direct
> correlation between noise level and air flow rate:
>
> http://www.directron.com/noise.html
> http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/direc...annoisefigure3
>
> Please let me know your recommendations. If you could provide a link
> it would be helpful.
>

I use a CNPS7000-AlCu on a Northwood 3.2GHz. It is a bit cheaper and
seems to do the job. Theta_R is 0.22C/W at full fan speed, which is
the way I use it. 0.22C/W * 84W would be a 18.5C temp rise above
case air temp. The CNPS7700-Cu is 0.19C/W by comparison.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118112 ($30)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118115 ($35)
http://processorfinder.intel.com/det...px?sSpec=SL7VW

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/...x=142&code=009 (CNPS7000-AlCu)
http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/...x=145&code=009 (CNPS7700-Cu)

It is too bad more companies didn't include theta_R in their specs.

Paul

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:17:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

>I use a CNPS7000-AlCu on a Northwood 3.2GHz.

My son uses the all Cu unit in his Prescott 3.2 GHz.

I suppose this would be the ultimate solution. But my mainboard is not
listed in the compatibility table. Anyway, it seems like overkill for
a 2.4 GHz Celeron D.

>It is a bit cheaper and seems to do the job.

Ironically it is more expensive than its all-copper counterpart,
albeit by only a penny.

http://www.directron.com/cnps7000alcu.html
http://www.directron.com/cnps7000b.html

>Theta_R is 0.22C/W at full fan speed, which is
>the way I use it. 0.22C/W * 84W would be a 18.5C temp rise above
>case air temp. The CNPS7700-Cu is 0.19C/W by comparison.

That works out to 16C, which is not very much more for the all Cu unit
compared to the Al-Cu hybrid. But then Al is a very good thermal
conductor, having pretty much the same physical properties as Cu.

>It is too bad more companies didn't include theta_R in their specs.

My problem is dust collection in the heat sink.


--

"All men seek to be enlightened. Religion is but the most ancient
and honorable way in which men have striven to make sense out of
God's universe. Scientists seek the lawfulness of events. It is
the task of religion to fit man into this lawfulness. Religion
must remain an outlet for people who say to themsleves, 'I am
not the kind of person I want to be'."
--Frank Herbert, "Dune"

"Citizen Bob" <spam@uce.gov> wrote in message
news:458be1a3.44170046@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:17:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
>>I use a CNPS7000-AlCu on a Northwood 3.2GHz.
>
> My son uses the all Cu unit in his Prescott 3.2 GHz.
>
> I suppose this would be the ultimate solution. But my mainboard is not
> listed in the compatibility table. Anyway, it seems like overkill for
> a 2.4 GHz Celeron D.
>
>>It is a bit cheaper and seems to do the job.
>
> Ironically it is more expensive than its all-copper counterpart,
> albeit by only a penny.
>
> http://www.directron.com/cnps7000alcu.html
> http://www.directron.com/cnps7000b.html
>
>>Theta_R is 0.22C/W at full fan speed, which is
>>the way I use it. 0.22C/W * 84W would be a 18.5C temp rise above
>>case air temp. The CNPS7700-Cu is 0.19C/W by comparison.
>
> That works out to 16C, which is not very much more for the all Cu unit
> compared to the Al-Cu hybrid. But then Al is a very good thermal
> conductor, having pretty much the same physical properties as Cu.
>
>>It is too bad more companies didn't include theta_R in their specs.
>
> My problem is dust collection in the heat sink.
>

How long does it take for the dust to build up in your heatsink, once you
have cleaned it out? If just cleaning it out fixes the temperature problem,
then just do that - its cheaper and easier!

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 14:36:39 -0000, "GT"
<ContactGT_remove_@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> My problem is dust collection in the heat sink.

>How long does it take for the dust to build up in your heatsink, once you
>have cleaned it out? If just cleaning it out fixes the temperature problem,
>then just do that - its cheaper and easier!

I clean it twice a year - mid year and at the end of the year.
Therefore it is due for a cleaning.

Once I clean it I do not see any problem for about 3 months. Then it
begins to rise slowly until the other 3 months are up. I may have to
clean it quarterly for optimum performance.

I wish I could find an air duct so I could use an external filter that
I could clean often. I have a side fan which I could use to blow air
directly onto the cooler fan but I need the duct work. Maybe I can rig
something. Or maybe I can rig a duct that goes at right angles to the
back where there is another fan I could use. Then it would be
permanent and not the hassle I would have with taking the side cover
off.

There are such ducts but they are custom designed for particular
cases. Next time I may use one of those cases.




--

"All men seek to be enlightened. Religion is but the most ancient
and honorable way in which men have striven to make sense out of
God's universe. Scientists seek the lawfulness of events. It is
the task of religion to fit man into this lawfulness. Religion
must remain an outlet for people who say to themsleves, 'I am
not the kind of person I want to be'."
--Frank Herbert, "Dune"

Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote:
> spam@uce.gov (Citizen Bob) wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 14:36:39 -0000, "GT"
>> <ContactGT_remove_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> My problem is dust collection in the heat sink.
>>
>>> How long does it take for the dust to build up in your heatsink,
>>> once you have cleaned it out? If just cleaning it out fixes the
>>> temperature problem, then just do that - its cheaper and easier!
>>
>> I clean it twice a year - mid year and at the end of the year.
>> Therefore it is due for a cleaning.
>>
>> Once I clean it I do not see any problem for about 3 months. Then it
>> begins to rise slowly until the other 3 months are up. I may have to
>> clean it quarterly for optimum performance.
>>
>> I wish I could find an air duct so I could use an external filter
>> that I could clean often. I have a side fan which I could use to
>> blow air directly onto the cooler fan but I need the duct work.
>> Maybe I can rig something. Or maybe I can rig a duct that goes at
>> right angles to the back where there is another fan I could use.
>> Then it would be permanent and not the hassle I would have with
>> taking the side cover off.
>>
>> There are such ducts but they are custom designed for particular
>> cases. Next time I may use one of those cases.
>
> I have 2 powerful fans in the back of the case that can suck the whole
> mboard out of the case <g> that I have to use Fan Controller to
> reduce the power (or it sounds like vacuum) and a regular case fan
> (side) to keep the system cool (cuz I run 24/7). And I still have to
> use air compressor to clean the fans of both power supply and CPU
> once every few months.

> Yup! I have read people suggested not to use
> air compressor on computer (cuz of the moisture),

Nope, because of the possibility of static.

> but I have been using air compressor for over 2 decades

I've used it for a lot longer than that with no problems.

> (since I first got an air compressor) and so far no problem.

Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> I have 2 powerful fans in the back of the case that can suck the
>>> whole mboard out of the case <g> that I have to use Fan Controller
>>> to reduce the power (or it sounds like vacuum) and a regular case
>>> fan (side) to keep the system cool (cuz I run 24/7). And I still
>>> have to use air compressor to clean the fans of both power supply
>>> and CPU once every few months.

>>> Yup! I have read people suggested not to use
>>> air compressor on computer (cuz of the moisture),

>> Nope, because of the possibility of static.

> Static is one of the techniques I use by blowing air to
> a fine brush to build-up static to clean camera sensor.

> BTW, I did read they mentioned because air
> compressure often have some water inside the tank,

Not a problem due to the way compressors work.

> and they suggested to use oxygen tank.

Makes more sense to use commercial dry nitrogen if you care about that.

>>> but I have been using air compressor for over 2 decades

>> I've used it for a lot longer than that with no problems.

> Yup! I use once every few months and so far no problem but great result.

I dont bother to do it obsessively like that, just blow the dust
out before working on a system, mainly for my convenience.

>>> (since I first got an air compressor) and so far no problem.

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 11:46:58 -0600, Joel <Joel@NoSpam.com> wrote:

> Yup! I have read people suggested not to use air compressor on computer
>(cuz of the moisture), but I have been using air compressor for over 2
>decades (since I first got an air compressor) and so far no problem.

I used to use compressed air but I have to take the computer out to
the garage where the compressor is. I got lazy and bought some 3M
compressed gas in a can and now I just open the side case and give the
heat sink a couple squirts.


--

"All men seek to be enlightened. Religion is but the most ancient
and honorable way in which men have striven to make sense out of
God's universe. Scientists seek the lawfulness of events. It is
the task of religion to fit man into this lawfulness. Religion
must remain an outlet for people who say to themsleves, 'I am
not the kind of person I want to be'."
--Frank Herbert, "Dune"