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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2007, 08:15 PM
lbrtchx@hotmail.com
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Default scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

Hi,
~
I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
sale on compusa for some $88
~
The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it (http://
smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
~
sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
~
and I found the results of running truly scary
~
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 116 100 006 Pre-fail
Always - 104095144
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 096 096 000 Pre-fail
Always - 0
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
Always - 5
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 060 060 030 Pre-fail
Always - 1001493
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 9
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
Always - 9
187 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 0
189 Unknown_Attribute 0x003a 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 0
190 Unknown_Attribute 0x0022 059 057 045 Old_age
Always - 723517481
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 041 043 000 Old_age
Always - 41 (Lifetime Min/Max 0/32)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age
Always - 34277342
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age
Always - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0000 100 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
202 TA_Increase_Count 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age
Always - 0
~
I have heard manufactures "mean" something different by the numbers
What do these numbers actually mean for a MAXTOR?
~
Which other manufacturers give a little meaning to their SMART
reports?
~
This is probably why they were selling them with such a discount.
Should I just return the disk?
~
thanks
lbrtchx


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2007, 07:21 AM
Whoever
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A



On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
> ~
> I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
> sale on compusa for some $88
> ~
> The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it (http://
> smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
> ~
> sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
> smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> Always - 9


Looks like this is not a new disk.

> 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
> Always - 0
> 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
> Always - 9


Once again, does not look like it is new.

> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age
> Always - 34277342


Looks scary, but I don't think this is really an issue. Some disk types
seem to report very high numbers for this value.

There are no reallocated sectors reported, and IMHO, this is the key value
to watch for impending failure.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2007, 10:35 AM
Anton Ertl
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

Whoever <nobody@devnull.none> writes:
>
>
>On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> ~
>> I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
>> sale on compusa for some $88
>> ~
>> The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it (http://
>> smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
>> ~
>> sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
>> smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
>> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
>> Always - 9

>
>Looks like this is not a new disk.


It's 9 power-on hours old.

>> 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
>> Always - 0
>> 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
>> Always - 9

>
>Once again, does not look like it is new.


And he has power cycled the machine 9 times.

>> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age
>> Always - 34277342

>
>Looks scary, but I don't think this is really an issue. Some disk types
>seem to report very high numbers for this value.


The raw numbers are sometimes very strange; in that case look at the
VALUE and WORST numbers, which should be 100, 200, or 255 at best.

>There are no reallocated sectors reported, and IMHO, this is the key value
>to watch for impending failure.


It's one count that predicts failure. For more information, read the
following paper:

@InProceedings{pinheiro+07,
author = {Eduardo Pinheiro and Wolf-Dietrich Weber and Luiz
Andr\'e Barroso},
title = {Failure Trends in a Large Disk Drive Population},
booktitle = {5th USENIX Conference on File and Storage
Technologies (FAST '07)},
OPTpages = {},
year = {2007},
month = feb,
annote = {Reports data on the correlation of various hard disk
properties (in particular SMART output) with their
failure probability, based on $>100,000$ drives
installed at Google. The paper mentions that drive
model, manufacturer and vintage plays a role, but
does not give data on model and
manufacturer. Utilization and temperature did not
play a big role in failure probability (but the
drives were not run at really high temperatures (few
above 45C). From the SMART data, scan errors,
reallocations, offline reallocations and probational
counts were significantly correlated with failure
probability, whereas seek errors, calibration
retries and spin retries had little
significance. But on more than half of the failed
drives, the four strong indicators mentioned above
had no counts.}
}

Followups set to comp.os.linux.hardware.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2007, 11:41 PM
Rod Speed
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

Whoever <nobody@devnull.none> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> ~
>> I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
>> sale on compusa for some $88
>> ~
>> The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it
>> (http:// smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
>> ~
>> sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
>> smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
>> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
>> Always - 9

>
> Looks like this is not a new disk.
>
>> 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail
>> Always - 0
>> 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age
>> Always - 9

>
> Once again, does not look like it is new.
>
>> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age
>> Always - 34277342

>
> Looks scary, but I don't think this is really an issue. Some disk
> types seem to report very high numbers for this value.
>
> There are no reallocated sectors reported,


Wrong, pity about

5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
Always - 0

> and IMHO, this is the key value to watch for impending failure.


It is indeed, and that many in a new drive is a real problem.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2007, 12:21 AM
Folkert Rienstra
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message news:5eauk4F36i6okU1@mid.individual.net
> Whoever <nobody@devnull.none> wrote:
> > On Sun, 24 Jun 2007, lbrtchx@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > ~
> > > I recently bought a MAXTOR STM3320620A (the 300Gb one) that was on
> > > sale on compusa for some $88
> > > ~
> > > The first thing I did with it was running smartmontools on it
> > > (http:// smartmontools.sourceforge.net)
> > > ~
> > > sh-3.1# smartctl -a /dev/hda
> > > smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce
> > > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 9


> > Looks like this is not a new disk.


No, really? What makes you think that.

> >
> > > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail Always - 0
> > > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old_age Always - 9


> > Once again, does not look like it is new.


Indeed, once sold it is second hand. Very perceptive of you.

> >
> > > 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 068 065 000 Old_age Always - 34277342

> >
> > Looks scary, but I don't think this is really an issue. Some disk types seem to report very high numbers for this value.
> >
> > There are no reallocated sectors reported,

>
> Wrong, pity about
>
> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail Always - 0


Oh, what is wrong with 0 reallocated sectors?

>
> > and IMHO, this is the key value to watch for impending failure.


> It is indeed, and that many in a new drive is a real problem.


If you say so, Roddles.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2007, 03:47 AM
Robert Nichols
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

In article <5eauk4F36i6okU1@mid.individual.net>,
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
:Whoever <nobody@devnull.none> wrote:
:>
:> There are no reallocated sectors reported,
:
:Wrong, pity about
:
: 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail
:Always - 0
:
:> and IMHO, this is the key value to watch for impending failure.
:
:It is indeed, and that many in a new drive is a real problem.

The raw number on that parameter is zero, and I find it hard to imagine
how that equates to "that many in a new drive is a real problem." The
normalized values (current=100, worst=100) indicate the drive is in
perfect condition (higher is better, and looking at the overall report
it appears that 100 is "best"). The threshold value (36) just indicates
how low the normalized value would have to drop before the manufacturer
would consider the drive to be in a "Pre-fail" condition.

The following is an excerpt from the smartctl manpage, explaining the
meaning of these fields

========

Each Attribute has a "Raw" value, printed under the heading
"RAW_VALUE", and a "Normalized" value printed under the heading
"VALUE". [Note: smartctl prints these values in base-10.] In the
example just given, the "Raw Value" for Attribute 12 would be the
actual number of times that the disk has been power-cycled, for
example 365 if the disk has been turned on once per day for exactly
one year. Each vendor uses their own algorithm to convert this "Raw"
value to a "Normalized" value in the range from 1 to 254. Please keep
in mind that smartctl only reports the different Attribute types,
values, and thresholds as read from the device. It does not carry out
the conversion between "Raw" and "Normalized" values: this is done by
the disk's firmware.

The conversion from Raw value to a quantity with physical units is not
specified by the SMART standard. In most cases, the values printed by
smartctl are sensible. For example the temperature Attribute generally
has its raw value equal to the temperature in Celsius. However in some
cases vendors use unusual conventions. For example the Hitachi disk on
my laptop reports its power-on hours in minutes, not hours. Some IBM
disks track three temperatures rather than one, in their raw
values. And so on.

Each Attribute also has a Threshold value (whose range is 0 to 255)
which is printed under the heading "THRESH". If the Normalized value
is less than or equal to the Threshold value, then the Attribute is
said to have failed. If the Attribute is a pre-failure Attribute, then
disk failure is imminent.

Each Attribute also has a "Worst" value shown under the heading
"WORST". This is the smallest (closest to failure) value that the disk
has recorded at any time during its lifetime when SMART was
enabled. [Note however that some vendors firmware may actually
increase the "Worst" value for some "rate-type" Attributes.]

The Attribute table printed out by smartctl also shows the "TYPE" of
the Attribute. Attributes are one of two possible types: Pre-failure
or Old age. Pre-failure Attributes are ones which, if less than or
equal to their threshold values, indicate pending disk failure. Old
age, or usage Attributes, are ones which indicate end-of-product life
from old-age or normal aging and wearout, if the Attribute value is
less than or equal to the threshold. Please note: the fact that an
Attribute is of type 'Pre-fail' does not mean that your disk is about
to fail! It only has this meaning if the Attribute's current
Normalized value is less than or equal to the threshold value.

If the Attribute's current Normalized value is less than or equal to
the threshold value, then the "WHEN_FAILED" column will display
"FAILING_NOW". If not, but the worst recorded value is less than or
equal to the threshold value, then this column will display
"In_the_past". If the "WHEN_FAILED" column has no entry (indicated by
a dash: '-') then this Attribute is OK now (not failing) and has also
never failed in the past.

The table column labeled "UPDATED" shows if the SMART Attribute values
are updated during both normal operation and off-line testing, or only
during offline testing. The former are labeled "Always" and the latter
are labeled "Offline".

So to summarize: the Raw Attribute values are the ones that might have
a real physical interpretation, such as "Temperature Celsius",
"Hours", or "Start-Stop Cycles". Each manufacturer converts these,
using their detailed knowledge of the disk's operations and failure
modes, to Normalized Attribute values in the range 1-254. The current
and worst (lowest measured) of these Normalized Attribute values are
stored on the disk, along with a Threshold value that the manufacturer
has determined will indicate that the disk is going to fail, or that
it has exceeded its design age or aging limit. smartctl does not
calculate any of the Attribute values, thresholds, or types, it merely
reports them from the SMART data on the device.

========

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:51 PM
Folkert Rienstra
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: scary results after running smartmontools on a MAXTOR STM3320620A

"Robert Nichols" <SEE_SIGNATURE@localhost.localdomain.invalid> wrote in message news:f5pun4$itq$1@omega-3a.local
> In article 5eauk4F36i6okU1@mid.individual.net, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Whoever <nobody@devnull.none> wrote:
> > >
> > > There are no reallocated sectors reported,

> >
> > Wrong, pity about
> >
> > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 036 Pre-fail Always - 0
> >
> > > and IMHO, this is the key value to watch for impending failure.

> >
> > It is indeed, and that many in a new drive is a real problem.


> The raw number on that parameter is zero, and I find it hard to imagine
> how that equates to "that many in a new drive is a real problem."


Roddles never had much luck explaining S.M.A.R.T. logs.

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