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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2008, 10:04 AM
anselm1009@yahoo.com
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Default Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

5 is an arbitrary number, I know. I'm getting a defective laptop
replaced by the manufacturer and have been told the cause of the
overheating (that made me return it) was everything from MS Vista to a
possibly faulty battery, to a Core 2 Duo processor, to the fact that
the AC adapter acts as an electrical "ground" and the power cord of
*all* laptops spark when you plug them in the wall.

I don't think the battery or processor were responsible, because when
it felt like the machine was going to erupt in flames (no joke), and I
knew I was going to get rid of it, I wiped out Vista and installed a
version of Linux. No, I'm not here to push Linux, because it was a
pain in the butt, but it *did* completely take care of the
overheating.

I read through this newsgroup archive. Having taken apart a laptop
before, I believe it is next to impossible for an amateur laptop owner
to clean a system without damaging something. So if anyone with a
laptop cares to say what to do to prevent overheating and also how to
maintain system devices that cause overheating, I'd appreciate hearing
here, or getting links.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2008, 12:38 PM
kony
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:04:30 -0800 (PST),
anselm1009@yahoo.com wrote:

>5 is an arbitrary number, I know. I'm getting a defective laptop
>replaced by the manufacturer and have been told the cause of the
>overheating (that made me return it) was everything from MS Vista to a
>possibly faulty battery, to a Core 2 Duo processor, to the fact that
>the AC adapter acts as an electrical "ground" and the power cord of
>*all* laptops spark when you plug them in the wall.
>
>I don't think the battery or processor were responsible, because when
>it felt like the machine was going to erupt in flames (no joke), and I
>knew I was going to get rid of it, I wiped out Vista and installed a
>version of Linux. No, I'm not here to push Linux, because it was a
>pain in the butt, but it *did* completely take care of the
>overheating.
>
>I read through this newsgroup archive. Having taken apart a laptop
>before, I believe it is next to impossible for an amateur laptop owner
>to clean a system without damaging something. So if anyone with a
>laptop cares to say what to do to prevent overheating and also how to
>maintain system devices that cause overheating, I'd appreciate hearing
>here, or getting links.


A laptop has a custom designed cooling system, the only real
hacks to that you can do (beyond the obvious, keeping
intakes, exhaust, fan and sink areas free of dust) is
increase the intake and exhaust areas by cutting away
plastic or drilling holes. Where one would do these things
depends on the specifics of the model (which you did not
mention but even if you did it might only help if fellow
owners of that model had similar ideas).

If windows (or other OS) is not managing power properly it
might make it run hotter all the time and yet the cooling
subsystem should still be designed to cope with that.

Basically I would suspect CPU or GPU heatsinking problems if
the fans work ok still and airways are not impeded by too
much dust. In the former case I would take the heatsinks
off and examine the thermal interface, cleaning off the
factory pad and appling a fresh clean coat of quality
heatsink grease.

That may not be enough if the laptop is poorly engineered.
Taking advantage of a warranty (if present still) is the
first choice instead of voiding that warranty.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2008, 04:09 PM
Rui Maciel
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Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

anselm1009@yahoo.com wrote:

> So if anyone with a
> laptop cares to say what to do to prevent overheating and also how to
> maintain system devices that cause overheating, I'd appreciate hearing
> here, or getting links.


From my own personal experience, the main cause of laptop overheating is OEM
incompetence, whether regarding appalling ACPI support or even terrible
equipment assembly.

For example, I had an Acer laptop that had some serious overheating
problems, specially under linux. As I use linux practically exclusively and
at the time (about 4 years ago) no OEM supported linux, I thought that the
overheating problem was due to Acer's pathetic linux support. Later, I
realised that it wasn't exactly that.

A while ago the laptop died and, as it was under still warranty, I contacted
Acer and they had to repair it. After a painful customer support experience
and a couple of months of waiting for it to be repaired, I got it back and
decided to start using it exclusively with windows. So I picked up my
original Windows XP install CDs that came with the laptop (they even had he
Acer logo printed on it) and started to perform a clean reinstall.

Well, that was what I had planned. The thing is, even the windows XP install
process, ran from Acer's very own original Windows XP install CDs that came
with the laptop, made it overheat. I mean, 5 minutes into the install
process and the laptop would die or hang.

So in some circumstances it isn't a matter of "preventing overheating". Some
OEMs simply sell horribly designed products that can barely function under
ideal conditions. Companies like Acer then charge you over 1200 euros for a
laptop which you believe is safe to use but then, after you give them your
hard-earned money, It doesn't matter to them if your laptop explodes. They
just hang on to their pathetic customer support, they wait until the
warranty period dies out and then, once again, you are forced to shelve
another 1200 euros for a product that, under different circumstances, would
have never died in the first place.

So in the end the best thing that you can do to prevent overheating is buy a
laptop from a company that doesn't build shoddy products. Regarding this
case, there is a reason why we see 10 year old thinkpads being resold in
ebay but we can't even see a single 3 year old Acer in there.


Rui Maciel

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2008, 06:21 PM
philo
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat


<snip>.
>
> So in some circumstances it isn't a matter of "preventing overheating".

Some
> OEMs simply sell horribly designed products that can barely function under
> ideal conditions. Companies like Acer then charge you over 1200 euros for

a
> laptop which you believe is safe to use but then, after you give them your
> hard-earned money, It doesn't matter to them if your laptop explodes. They
> just hang on to their pathetic customer support, they wait until the
> warranty period dies out and then, once again, you are forced to shelve
> another 1200 euros for a product that, under different circumstances,

would
> have never died in the first place.
>
> So in the end the best thing that you can do to prevent overheating is buy

a
> laptop from a company that doesn't build shoddy products. Regarding this
> case, there is a reason why we see 10 year old thinkpads being resold in
> ebay but we can't even see a single 3 year old Acer in there.
>
>
> Rui Maciel



Maybe you could sell you laptop to someone in Antarctica who needs to use it
outdoors.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008, 10:51 AM
anselm1009@yahoo.com
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Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

On Jan 13, 12:09 pm, Rui Maciel <rui.mac...@gmail.com> wrote:

> From my own personal experience, the main cause of laptop overheating is OEM
> incompetence, whether regarding appalling ACPI support or even terrible
> equipment assembly.


SNIP

> So in the end the best thing that you can do to prevent overheating is buy a
> laptop from a company that doesn't build shoddy products. Regarding this
> case, there is a reason why we see 10 year old thinkpads being resold in
> ebay but we can't even see a single 3 year old Acer in there.


Yeah, I'm starting to get the creeping feeling you're right. (The
ironic thing is that the defective laptop I sent back was a thinkpad,
but the tech support lenovo has--particularly in the early AM hours--
is just incredible, as opposed to Acer's, which even finding is like
Where's Waldo.)

You seem to agree that the problem was Windows. Why did you try to
reinstall XP (which in the heat department, doesn't hold a candle :)
to Vista)? I got sick of Ubuntu because of the arcana--and I used a
Terminal exclusively for all Internet-related stuff from 1994--2001.
It seemed specious that geniuses who could create operating systems
couldn't somehow work their way around proprietary soft modem issues,
which in my case rendered a $1K laptop just a fancy--if cool-running--
word processor. I mean, I must have spent 60 hours a week between
Thanksgiving and Christmas trying to find a driver and/or code that
would let me use the "modem" that came on my system.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008, 12:54 PM
Rui Maciel
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

anselm1009@yahoo.com wrote:

> Yeah, I'm starting to get the creeping feeling you're right. *(The
> ironic thing is that the defective laptop I sent back was a thinkpad,
> but the tech support lenovo has--particularly in the early AM hours--
> is just incredible, as opposed to Acer's, which even finding is like
> Where's Waldo.)


Indeed. Acer's customer support is a joke. In my case, I spent 3 to 4 weeks
writing emails to them to know where the hell was my laptop and the only
thing that they were able to do is that it would arrive in a couple of
days. When I finally got it, which meant being deprived from my laptop for
about two months, not only it was poorly assembled (some parts weren't even
in place) but it also arrived with saw dust all over the keyboard/monitor.
That's Acer for you.


> You seem to agree that the problem was Windows. *Why did you try to
> reinstall XP (which in the heat department, doesn't hold a candle :)
> to Vista)? *


I don't believe the problem was necessarily due to Windows. I do believe
that the problem was caused by Acer's incompetence, as it built a laptop
with broken ACPI support, that could (and did) cause problems whether I was
running Windows or Linux.

Naturally, linux has the power to minimize this type of problems, as it
offers an easy way to hand-tweak the CPU stepping limit while any version
of Windows comes with the hood welded shut. Nonetheless, who in their right
mind spends over 1200 euros for a laptop to then be forced to operate it at
800MHz and do his best to avoid doing anything mildly CPU-intensive?


> I got sick of Ubuntu because of the arcana--and I used a
> Terminal exclusively for all Internet-related stuff from 1994--2001.
> It seemed specious that geniuses who could create operating systems
> couldn't somehow work their way around proprietary soft modem issues,
> which in my case rendered a $1K laptop just a fancy--if cool-running--
> word processor. *I mean, I must have spent 60 hours a week between
> Thanksgiving and Christmas trying to find a driver and/or code that
> would let me use the "modem" that came on my system.


Well, that isn't a linux problem nor Ubuntu problem. That's a hardware
support problem, which is of the sole responsibility of the hardware
makers. If the hardware builders sell you their hardware but don't even
care if you can run it nor do they make it possible for other to make it
run, then how exactly is this a operating system problem?

Unfortunately, the retards at Acer also pull this kind of crap on their
customers, even if they only run Windows. In my case, my Acer laptop had an
AMD Athlon 64 processor. When I bought it, I intended to use an 64-bit OS
on it. Then I found out that, although Acer made ample use of the 64-bit
label all over their marketing campaign, they didn't offered any support
whatsoever for their hardware on any 64-bit enabled OS. They didn't offered
a single driver for the 64-bit version of Windows. At all.


Rui Maciel

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2008, 10:02 AM
anselm1009@yahoo.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

On Jan 14, 8:54 am, Rui Maciel <rui.mac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't believe the problem was necessarily due to Windows. I do believe
> that the problem was caused by Acer's incompetence, as it built a laptop
> with broken ACPI support, that could (and did) cause problems whether I was
> running Windows or Linux.


I don't know if my problem is characteristic of computer users who
understand many but not all computer technology-related concepts, but
some processes I understand completely and some not at all. I do not
understand ACPI, so I'll take your word for it.

> Naturally, linux has the power to minimize this type of problems, as it
> offers an easy way to hand-tweak the CPU stepping limit while any version
> of Windows comes with the hood welded shut. Nonetheless, who in their right
> mind spends over 1200 euros for a laptop to then be forced to operate it at
> 800MHz and do his best to avoid doing anything mildly CPU-intensive?


I wasn't aware of this Linux capability at all. But you're right: a
computer-hating friend of mine is fond of saying that the price mark-
up of laptops must be 2000%. If computer manufacturers *know* the
programs they advertise and want people's money for are exactly the
things that will cause the unit to burn up, then it would stand to
reason that the more advanced video, sound, graphics, etc., become,
the cheaper laptops should be. Once you look under the hood, you get
sick to your stomach realizing how bad you were overcharged and how
execs are sailing in the Bahamas on your hard-earned euros or dollars.
>
> > I got sick of Ubuntu because of the arcana--and I used a
> > Terminal exclusively for all Internet-related stuff from 1994--2001.
> > It seemed specious that geniuses who could create operating systems
> > couldn't somehow work their way around proprietary soft modem issues,
> > which in my case rendered a $1K laptop just a fancy--if cool-running--
> > word processor. I mean, I must have spent 60 hours a week between
> > Thanksgiving and Christmas trying to find a driver and/or code that
> > would let me use the "modem" that came on my system.

>
> Well, that isn't a linux problem nor Ubuntu problem. That's a hardware
> support problem, which is of the sole responsibility of the hardware
> makers. If the hardware builders sell you their hardware but don't even
> care if you can run it nor do they make it possible for other to make it
> run, then how exactly is this a operating system problem?


I'm not saying it is an operating system problem. It's just that the
politics of Linux (basically a 60's hippie-ish "Show it to the M-a-n")
would have led me to believe that some Linux tinkerer, somewhere,
could have worked around the fine points of co-opting or creating
drivers for something as basic as a modem.

> Unfortunately, the retards at Acer also pull this kind of crap on their
> customers, even if they only run Windows. In my case, my Acer laptop had an
> AMD Athlon 64 processor. When I bought it, I intended to use an 64-bit OS
> on it. Then I found out that, although Acer made ample use of the 64-bit
> label all over their marketing campaign, they didn't offered any support
> whatsoever for their hardware on any 64-bit enabled OS. They didn't offered
> a single driver for the 64-bit version of Windows. At all.


Personally, I don't know how this company stays in business. Can't
fathom it at all (am speaking from personal experience).

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2008, 01:13 PM
GT
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

<anselm1009@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c7a33a36-591b-40ba-aac5-3f515a94f57d@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>5 is an arbitrary number, I know. I'm getting a defective laptop
> replaced by the manufacturer and have been told the cause of the
> overheating (that made me return it) was everything from MS Vista to a
> possibly faulty battery, to a Core 2 Duo processor, to the fact that
> the AC adapter acts as an electrical "ground" and the power cord of
> *all* laptops spark when you plug them in the wall.
>
> I don't think the battery or processor were responsible, because when
> it felt like the machine was going to erupt in flames (no joke), and I
> knew I was going to get rid of it, I wiped out Vista and installed a
> version of Linux. No, I'm not here to push Linux, because it was a
> pain in the butt, but it *did* completely take care of the
> overheating.
>
> I read through this newsgroup archive. Having taken apart a laptop
> before, I believe it is next to impossible for an amateur laptop owner
> to clean a system without damaging something. So if anyone with a
> laptop cares to say what to do to prevent overheating and also how to
> maintain system devices that cause overheating, I'd appreciate hearing
> here, or getting links.


The most common reason for a laptop to overheat these days is down to their
unfortunate name - laptop - implying that you can use it on top of your lap.
Every single laptop (except a mac) that I have encountered in the last few
years have the air intake or exhaust on the bottom of the machine, so that
if you use it on your lap, you block all airflow!



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2008, 02:14 PM
Rui Maciel
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

GT wrote:

> The most common reason for a laptop to overheat these days is down to
> their unfortunate name - laptop - implying that you can use it on top of
> your lap. Every single laptop (except a mac) *that I have encountered in
> the last few years have the air intake or exhaust on the bottom of the
> machine, so that if you use it on your lap, you block all airflow!


I remember a while back, when Apple started shipping laptops which suffered
from overheating problems and the customers started complaining, that Apple
itself claimed that their laptops were running as expected and that they
should not be used over the lap. Then it was discovered that the Apple
laptops were overheating thanks to bad design, a problem which was made
worse due to the laptops being poorly assembled (too much thermal paste
that hindered heat dissipation).

But even ignoring incidents like this one, you are claiming that laptops
overheat due to not being designed to be used on the top of a desk. How
could this use case be possibly missed in the design process? How, exactly,
is this not a poor design decision?


Rui Maciel

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2008, 03:27 PM
GT
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

"Rui Maciel" <rui.maciel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:478ccdcf$0$17645$a729d347@news.telepac.pt...
> GT wrote:
>
>> The most common reason for a laptop to overheat these days is down to
>> their unfortunate name - laptop - implying that you can use it on top of
>> your lap. Every single laptop (except a mac) that I have encountered in
>> the last few years have the air intake or exhaust on the bottom of the
>> machine, so that if you use it on your lap, you block all airflow!

>
> I remember a while back, when Apple started shipping laptops which
> suffered
> from overheating problems and the customers started complaining, that
> Apple
> itself claimed that their laptops were running as expected and that they
> should not be used over the lap. Then it was discovered that the Apple
> laptops were overheating thanks to bad design, a problem which was made
> worse due to the laptops being poorly assembled (too much thermal paste
> that hindered heat dissipation).
>
> But even ignoring incidents like this one, you are claiming that laptops
> overheat due to not being designed to be used on the top of a desk. How
> could this use case be possibly missed in the design process? How,
> exactly,
> is this not a poor design decision?


I would say that something designed as a "lap top PC", should be usable on a
lap without the aid of a large book or board to allow airflow and prevent
the user from burning their legs! This absolutely IS a bad design and I
don't know why you would suggest that I have said otherwise?

My reply answered your question directly - you asked for the top 5 reasons
for overheating laptops, I have listed the number 1 reason in my
experience/opinion. Number 2 would be dust build-up. Number 3 would be type
of use - any OS or application that 'thrashes' the hard disk will heat up a
laptop. Number 4 would be modern games + GFX chips. Number 5 would be some
kind of fault in the cooling system.



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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2008, 05:13 PM
kony
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:14:21 +0000, Rui Maciel
<rui.maciel@gmail.com> wrote:

>GT wrote:
>
>> The most common reason for a laptop to overheat these days is down to
>> their unfortunate name - laptop - implying that you can use it on top of
>> your lap. Every single laptop (except a mac) *that I have encountered in
>> the last few years have the air intake or exhaust on the bottom of the
>> machine, so that if you use it on your lap, you block all airflow!

>


>But even ignoring incidents like this one, you are claiming that laptops
>overheat due to not being designed to be used on the top of a desk.


No, he wrote used on a lap not desk. The difference is a
desk is flat enough the feet on the bottom leave some space
for an intake on the bottom to still draw in air instead of
being blocked, while in a lap the typical side placement
(instead of middle) of the intake is more likely to rest on
one's legs.


>How
>could this use case be possibly missed in the design process? How, exactly,
>is this not a poor design decision?


All designs have tradeoffs. Noise, airflow, size, cost
among a few. The intake and exhaust are typically situated
where it makes the mose sense to do so as some parts can't
be moved without interfering with functionality like the
keyboard, touchpad, screen. I suppose they could omit a
drive or two and/or some ports on the sides to create intake
or exhaust there - and some do, but ultimately there are
several designs and it is up to the buyer to educate
themselves as much as possible before making a purchase
keeping in mind that with each design there are tradeoffs.

This does not excuse cooling that is marginal to
insufficient even in the best of situations, I was only
addressing the issue of airflow routing.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2008, 09:12 PM
Paul
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Top 5 Reasons for Laptop Overheat

Rui Maciel wrote:
> GT wrote:
>
>> The most common reason for a laptop to overheat these days is down to
>> their unfortunate name - laptop - implying that you can use it on top of
>> your lap. Every single laptop (except a mac) that I have encountered in
>> the last few years have the air intake or exhaust on the bottom of the
>> machine, so that if you use it on your lap, you block all airflow!

>
> I remember a while back, when Apple started shipping laptops which suffered
> from overheating problems and the customers started complaining, that Apple
> itself claimed that their laptops were running as expected and that they
> should not be used over the lap. Then it was discovered that the Apple
> laptops were overheating thanks to bad design, a problem which was made
> worse due to the laptops being poorly assembled (too much thermal paste
> that hindered heat dissipation).
>
> But even ignoring incidents like this one, you are claiming that laptops
> overheat due to not being designed to be used on the top of a desk. How
> could this use case be possibly missed in the design process? How, exactly,
> is this not a poor design decision?
>
>
> Rui Maciel


You need something with a vent in the back. Like this one - Asus C90.

http://www.hwupgrade.it/immagini/4-7-2007_asus1.jpg
http://www.gadgetmania.ro/wp-content...asus_c90_2.jpg
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1...41&modelmenu=1

Paul

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