On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:25:07 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>"kornball"wrote:
>> Tim likes pretending he has some advanced new insight into
>> common things, but as always when it comes right down to
>> demonstrating any benefit from his theories, he goes into
>> troll mode.
>
> Here's "troll mode"
Tim you don't have to announce Troll mode, with you it's
implied already.
Did it not occur to you that an applicable demonstration is
of what you are proposing, not of some other thing that
merely has turbulence as a variable?
Timothy Daniels wrote:
> "David Maynard" wrote:
>
>>> Turbulence is turbulence. Nothing "micro" and "macro"
>>> about it, except that they are neat terms.
>>
>>
>> Nope and you should have read it all before knee jerk replying.
<snip of wasted breath>
>> The problem is your interpretation of it.
>
> Interpretation of what? Could you be more specific?
> What is to be "interpreted", and how have I done
> that incorrectly?
I've already explained it and I'm not going to go around in circles with
you. Boundary layer turbulence is dealt with at the component level and at
the case level the primary concern is minimizing flow restriction, not
creating 'turbulence' because, to repeat, that's dealt with at the
component level. Either learn it or cling to whatever amuses you.
"David Maynard" backed down:
> I've already explained it and I'm not going to go around in circles
> with you.
All you've done is issue terse denials with no substantiating
reasoning or evidence. "Nope" and "you haven't a clue"
don't qualify as reasoning.
It's clear to me that you confuse "turbulence" with "boundary
layer turbulence", and since you think all boundary layers are
microscopic, you believe all turbulence is microscopic.
In fact, boundary layers can be quite large. On an airplane
wing, the boundary layer can be thicker than the cross-section
of the wing. The boundary layer in the plasma streaming from
the sun past Earth can be many times larger the planet. It is
your confused concept of a boundary layer which has blocked
your understanding of turbulence.
> Boundary layer turbulence is dealt with at the component level
Why? You still haven't said why.
And who does this "dealing"? Passive Voice is poor reporting,
Maynard. Put it into the Active Voice. WHO deals with boundary
layer turbulence, and HOW and WHAT does he/she do?
> and at the case level the primary concern is minimizing flow restriction,
> not creating 'turbulence' because, to repeat, that's dealt with at the
> component level.
WHOSE "primary concern"? Who is this smart guy and why
does he do what you claim he does? Who is this guy? Is he
just some "expert" that you made up?
To say "the primary concern is minimizing flow restriction" is
to beg the question about WHY the primary concern is to be
minimizing flow restriction. Obviously, you have been taking
this as a given all your life, and it hasn't occurred to you that
it might not be true. Think about WHY you believe such a
thing.
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:53:18 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>"David Maynard" backed down:
>> I've already explained it and I'm not going to go around in circles
>> with you.
>
> All you've done is issue terse denials with no substantiating
> reasoning or evidence.
LOL
Tim tersely denies millions of ATX systems cooled fine
without any thought towards creating additional turbulence,
no substantiated reasoning why they aren't overheating.
Test, Tim. Get a working and reproducible model as proof.
That's called evidence.
"kornball" tries to change the subject:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>
>>"David Maynard" backed down:
>>> I've already explained it and I'm not going to go around in circles
>>> with you.
>>
>> All you've done is issue terse denials with no substantiating
>> reasoning or evidence.
>
> LOL
>
> Tim tersely denies millions of ATX systems cooled fine
Please point out where I denied that millions of ATX
systems "cooled fine". I would add, though, that
millions of ATX systems could cool better if modders
didn't strive to reduce turbulence.
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 20:44:37 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>"kornball" tries to change the subject:
>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>>
>>>"David Maynard" backed down:
>>>> I've already explained it and I'm not going to go around in circles
>>>> with you.
>>>
>>> All you've done is issue terse denials with no substantiating
>>> reasoning or evidence.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> Tim tersely denies millions of ATX systems cooled fine
>
>
> Please point out where I denied that millions of ATX
> systems "cooled fine".
You suggested evidence contradicted by millions of ATX
systems without cooling problems. Several times. I'm not
going to link every single time, that'd take forever. Did
you ever learn how to use a newsreader so you can look back
through your posts?
> I would add, though, that
> millions of ATX systems could cool better if modders
> didn't strive to reduce turbulence.
You can spew anything you want, because you're 100% FOS.
Timothy Daniels wrote:
> "David Maynard" backed down:
>
>> I've already explained it and I'm not going to go around in circles
>> with you.
>
>
> All you've done is issue terse denials with no substantiating
> reasoning or evidence.
I went in great detail in the FIRST post and the second was only in
response to you repeating the same nonsense over and over again while
ignoring what was written. Which is why I'm not going to do it again, and
again, and again, and again.
"David Maynard" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "David Maynard" backed down:
>>
>>> I've already explained it and I'm not going to go around in circles
>>> with you.
>>
>>
>> All you've done is issue terse denials with no substantiating
>> reasoning or evidence.
>
> I went in great detail in the FIRST post and the second was only in
> response to you repeating the same nonsense over and over again while
> ignoring what was written. Which is why I'm not going to do it again, and
> again, and again, and again.
>
> <snip>
I would like to understand your reasoning, Dave, if only
as a forensic exercise. But you really haven't presented
any of it.
"kornball" gets lamer by the minute:
> You suggested evidence contradicted by millions of ATX
> systems without cooling problems. Several times. I'm not
> going to link every single time, that'd take forever. Did
> you ever learn how to use a newsreader so you can look back
> through your posts?
<LOL> You can't use a news reader to prove your claim
because your claim is false.
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:50:03 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>"kornball" gets lamer by the minute:
>> You suggested evidence contradicted by millions of ATX
>> systems without cooling problems. Several times. I'm not
>> going to link every single time, that'd take forever. Did
>> you ever learn how to use a newsreader so you can look back
>> through your posts?
>
>
> <LOL> You can't use a news reader to prove your claim
> because your claim is false.
>
>*TimDaniels*
I'm not the one who made the claim Tim, I only wrote
"millions" (and the rest) after you had already made a claim
you couldn't back up.
"kornball" does the Wriggle and Squirm:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>
>>"kornball" gets lamer by the minute:
>>> You suggested evidence contradicted by millions of ATX
>>> systems without cooling problems. Several times. I'm not
>>> going to link every single time, that'd take forever. Did
>>> you ever learn how to use a newsreader so you can look back
>>> through your posts?
>>
>>
>> <LOL> You can't use a news reader to prove your claim
>> because your claim is false.
>>
>>*TimDaniels*
>
>
> I'm not the one who made the claim Tim, I only wrote
> "millions" (and the rest) after you had already made a claim
> you couldn't back up.
Always trying to change the subject. This thread is about the
efficacy of turbulence in heat transfer between a solid and
a liquid. Stick to the subject, which is:
"To induce turbulence within the fins and improve thermal
transmission between the air and metal, Thermalright have
modified the aluminum fins by adding 'proprietary bent winglets'."
"Simple convection is not as effective (even for the same rate
of flow of air), because of the "laminar" flow of air (where the
air at the surface of the heatsink moves slower than that further
away). This effect can be easily seen on a windy day. If you stay
close to a wall or other large area (lying on the ground works too),
it will be noticed that it is less windy than out in the open. Exactly
the same thing happens with heatsinks (but on a somewhat
reduced scale). Creating turbulence is an excellent way to defeat
this process, but this requires fans, and fans are noisy."
"The heat transfer towards the flowing air that can be achieved
with plain fins is relatively restricted. The laminar air flow that
emerges is not sufficient to carry off the heat. Therefore, attempts
are being made to improve heat transfer (fins to air) by producing
more turbulent flow using an appropriate fin geometry."
"Optimizing cooling efficiency in an LIA is achieved by using
a heatsink-based aluminum reflector, where the material has
a high thermal conductivity and the design maximizes the effects
of surface area and turbulence. Within reason, the more surface
area the better the lamp cooling. Also important is turbulence,
because of the skin effect in cooling. A thin layer of air surrounding
a cooling surface acts as a thermal insulator impeding the effect
of forced air-cooling. This layer needs to be disrupted by turbulent
airflow, which can be created by providing irregular fins and fin
geometries."
"at least some said protrusions affect said streaming of said
fluid so as to enhance the turbulence of said streaming of said
fluid, thereby enhancing convective heat transfer from said
object to said fluid."
"Turbulent air cools better. Say, for sake of argument,
you have a simple tube with a fan in the middle. The fan pulls
air from one side of the tube, and blows into the other. If you
have a hot component on the exhaust side of the fan, it will
be more efficiently cooled than on the intake side.
"This is because the air on the exhaust side of the fan
is more turbulent. For lack of a better explanation, the loops
and whorls of turbulent air moving across the surface pick
up more heat. The effective surface area of the object is
increased. (Actually, it was explained to me by saying the
effective surface area of the air is increased.) The total
volume of airflow remains the same, but turbulent air just
cools better."
"Turbulent flow is the most common form of motion of liquids
and gases playing the role of the heat-transfer medium in thermal
systems. The complexity of turbulent flow and the importance of
hydrodynamics and heat transfer in practice inspired continuing
research for methods of efficient heat augmentation by the
Lithuanian Energy Institute. The solution of this problem was directly
linked with the determination of the reaction of flow in the boundary
layer to the effect of various factors and heat transfer rate under
given conditions. The investigated factors included elevated degree
of turbulence of the external flow as well as strong acceleration and
turbulization of flow near the wall by surface roughness. The material
in this volume shows that it is possible to control the efficiency of
turbulent transfer when the vortical structure of the turbulent flow is
known."
"Comparatively speaking, turbulent flows often lead to higher
transport rate of momentum, energy and mass than laminar flows.
These features are widely made use of in energy systems in industry.
For example, turbulence enhancers such as ribs are added to
cooling systems of turbine blades and microelectronic devices
to create more turbulent motions so that the overall heat transfer
efficiency can be improved."
"To induce turbulence within the fins and improve thermal
transmission between the air and metal, Thermalright have
modified the aluminum fins by adding 'proprietary bent winglets'."
"Simple convection is not as effective (even for the same rate
of flow of air), because of the "laminar" flow of air (where the
air at the surface of the heatsink moves slower than that further
away). This effect can be easily seen on a windy day. If you stay
close to a wall or other large area (lying on the ground works too),
it will be noticed that it is less windy than out in the open. Exactly
the same thing happens with heatsinks (but on a somewhat
reduced scale). Creating turbulence is an excellent way to defeat
this process, but this requires fans, and fans are noisy."
"The heat transfer towards the flowing air that can be achieved
with plain fins is relatively restricted. The laminar air flow that
emerges is not sufficient to carry off the heat. Therefore, attempts
are being made to improve heat transfer (fins to air) by producing
more turbulent flow using an appropriate fin geometry."
"Optimizing cooling efficiency in an LIA is achieved by using
a heatsink-based aluminum reflector, where the material has
a high thermal conductivity and the design maximizes the effects
of surface area and turbulence. Within reason, the more surface
area the better the lamp cooling. Also important is turbulence,
because of the skin effect in cooling. A thin layer of air surrounding
a cooling surface acts as a thermal insulator impeding the effect
of forced air-cooling. This layer needs to be disrupted by turbulent
airflow, which can be created by providing irregular fins and fin
geometries."
"at least some said protrusions affect said streaming of said
fluid so as to enhance the turbulence of said streaming of said
fluid, thereby enhancing convective heat transfer from said
object to said fluid."
"Turbulent air cools better. Say, for sake of argument,
you have a simple tube with a fan in the middle. The fan pulls
air from one side of the tube, and blows into the other. If you
have a hot component on the exhaust side of the fan, it will
be more efficiently cooled than on the intake side.
"This is because the air on the exhaust side of the fan
is more turbulent. For lack of a better explanation, the loops
and whorls of turbulent air moving across the surface pick
up more heat. The effective surface area of the object is
increased. (Actually, it was explained to me by saying the
effective surface area of the air is increased.) The total
volume of airflow remains the same, but turbulent air just
cools better."
"Turbulent flow is the most common form of motion of liquids
and gases playing the role of the heat-transfer medium in thermal
systems. The complexity of turbulent flow and the importance of
hydrodynamics and heat transfer in practice inspired continuing
research for methods of efficient heat augmentation by the
Lithuanian Energy Institute. The solution of this problem was directly
linked with the determination of the reaction of flow in the boundary
layer to the effect of various factors and heat transfer rate under
given conditions. The investigated factors included elevated degree
of turbulence of the external flow as well as strong acceleration and
turbulization of flow near the wall by surface roughness. The material
in this volume shows that it is possible to control the efficiency of
turbulent transfer when the vortical structure of the turbulent flow is
known."
"Comparatively speaking, turbulent flows often lead to higher
transport rate of momentum, energy and mass than laminar flows.
These features are widely made use of in energy systems in industry.
For example, turbulence enhancers such as ribs are added to
cooling systems of turbine blades and microelectronic devices
to create more turbulent motions so that the overall heat transfer
efficiency can be improved."
"kornball" gets ridiculous:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>> You have said that turbulence should be minimized or reduced.
>
> Yes, before or after the hot part, never did I claim ON the
> part.
And HOW do you propose to reduce turbulence "after the hot part"?
And wouldn't turbulenced induced "ON the hot part" reduce your
revered bulk flow rate?
C'mon, kornball, you keep pointing out that the generation of
turbulence would cut down the flow rate, but you keep promoting
turbulence "ON the hot part". What are you, schizoid or cross-eyed
or dyslexic? You should look into that: https://www.amidyslexic.com/ .
"kornball" wrote:
> Did it not occur to you that an applicable demonstration is
> of what you are proposing, not of some other thing that
> merely has turbulence as a variable?
"Turbulence as a variable" is exactly what is called for,
and that is what the experiment in BenchTest.com
provided. That the experimenter didn't plan it that way
is immaterial - that's what discoveries frequently are:
unplanned results.
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:28:14 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>"kornball" gets ridiculous:
>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>>> You have said that turbulence should be minimized or reduced.
>>
>> Yes, before or after the hot part, never did I claim ON the
>> part.
>
>
> And HOW do you propose to reduce turbulence "after the hot part"?
> And wouldn't turbulenced induced "ON the hot part" reduce your
> revered bulk flow rate?
Minimization of obstructions. Surely this was obvious? If
not, it's starting to become clear why you feel ATX is a
problem.
>
> C'mon, kornball, you keep pointing out that the generation of
> turbulence would cut down the flow rate, but you keep promoting
> turbulence "ON the hot part". What are you, schizoid or cross-eyed
> or dyslexic? You should look into that: https://www.amidyslexic.com/ .
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:43:51 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>"kornball" wrote:
>> Did it not occur to you that an applicable demonstration is
>> of what you are proposing, not of some other thing that
>> merely has turbulence as a variable?
>
>
> "Turbulence as a variable" is exactly what is called for,
> and that is what the experiment in BenchTest.com
> provided. That the experimenter didn't plan it that way
> is immaterial - that's what discoveries frequently are:
> unplanned results.
We already know lowering intake rate reduces turbulence on
the hot parts inside. A thermal sensor isn't a hot part,
it's not cooled more by a higher rate of the same temp air,
rather change in airflow patterns is what effects it.
Try again, and be refuted again, or test like everybody
else.
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:15:28 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>"kornball" does the Wriggle and Squirm:
>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>>
>>>"kornball" gets lamer by the minute:
>>>> You suggested evidence contradicted by millions of ATX
>>>> systems without cooling problems. Several times. I'm not
>>>> going to link every single time, that'd take forever. Did
>>>> you ever learn how to use a newsreader so you can look back
>>>> through your posts?
>>>
>>>
>>> <LOL> You can't use a news reader to prove your claim
>>> because your claim is false.
>>>
>>>*TimDaniels*
>>
>>
>> I'm not the one who made the claim Tim, I only wrote
>> "millions" (and the rest) after you had already made a claim
>> you couldn't back up.
>
>
> Always trying to change the subject. This thread is about ...
.... you not accepting that you jumped to a conclusion
prematurely without testing.
"kornball" repeated:
> Test it, provide a reproducible model.
Why is it that you've never produced test results,
reproducible or otherwise, that show that laminar
flow cools best - in contradiction to proven fluid
mechanics and aerodynamics? Could it be that it
would be embarrassing to you to find that the world's
scientists have been correct all along? Just look
at this to see how utterly wrong you are:
"To induce turbulence within the fins and improve thermal
transmission between the air and metal, Thermalright have
modified the aluminum fins by adding 'proprietary bent winglets'."
"Simple convection is not as effective (even for the same rate
of flow of air), because of the "laminar" flow of air (where the
air at the surface of the heatsink moves slower than that further
away). This effect can be easily seen on a windy day. If you stay
close to a wall or other large area (lying on the ground works too),
it will be noticed that it is less windy than out in the open. Exactly
the same thing happens with heatsinks (but on a somewhat
reduced scale). Creating turbulence is an excellent way to defeat
this process, but this requires fans, and fans are noisy."
"The heat transfer towards the flowing air that can be achieved
with plain fins is relatively restricted. The laminar air flow that
emerges is not sufficient to carry off the heat. Therefore, attempts
are being made to improve heat transfer (fins to air) by producing
more turbulent flow using an appropriate fin geometry."
"Optimizing cooling efficiency in an LIA is achieved by using
a heatsink-based aluminum reflector, where the material has
a high thermal conductivity and the design maximizes the effects
of surface area and turbulence. Within reason, the more surface
area the better the lamp cooling. Also important is turbulence,
because of the skin effect in cooling. A thin layer of air surrounding
a cooling surface acts as a thermal insulator impeding the effect
of forced air-cooling. This layer needs to be disrupted by turbulent
airflow, which can be created by providing irregular fins and fin
geometries."
"at least some said protrusions affect said streaming of said
fluid so as to enhance the turbulence of said streaming of said
fluid, thereby enhancing convective heat transfer from said
object to said fluid."
"Turbulent air cools better. Say, for sake of argument,
you have a simple tube with a fan in the middle. The fan pulls
air from one side of the tube, and blows into the other. If you
have a hot component on the exhaust side of the fan, it will
be more efficiently cooled than on the intake side.
"This is because the air on the exhaust side of the fan
is more turbulent. For lack of a better explanation, the loops
and whorls of turbulent air moving across the surface pick
up more heat. The effective surface area of the object is
increased. (Actually, it was explained to me by saying the
effective surface area of the air is increased.) The total
volume of airflow remains the same, but turbulent air just
cools better."
"Turbulent flow is the most common form of motion of liquids
and gases playing the role of the heat-transfer medium in thermal
systems. The complexity of turbulent flow and the importance of
hydrodynamics and heat transfer in practice inspired continuing
research for methods of efficient heat augmentation by the
Lithuanian Energy Institute. The solution of this problem was directly
linked with the determination of the reaction of flow in the boundary
layer to the effect of various factors and heat transfer rate under
given conditions. The investigated factors included elevated degree
of turbulence of the external flow as well as strong acceleration and
turbulization of flow near the wall by surface roughness. The material
in this volume shows that it is possible to control the efficiency of
turbulent transfer when the vortical structure of the turbulent flow is
known."
"Comparatively speaking, turbulent flows often lead to higher
transport rate of momentum, energy and mass than laminar flows.
These features are widely made use of in energy systems in industry.
For example, turbulence enhancers such as ribs are added to
cooling systems of turbine blades and microelectronic devices
to create more turbulent motions so that the overall heat transfer
efficiency can be improved."
"kornball" dodged a question:
> "Timothy Daniels" asked:
>> And HOW do you propose to reduce turbulence "after the hot part"?
>
> Minimization of obstructions. Surely this was obvious? If
> not, it's starting to become clear why you feel ATX is a
> problem.
So you would simply WAIT for the turbulence to die down.
How admirably PATIENT of you! Meanwhile, the hot air
coming off the CPU heatsink is about a half-second away
from other parts downstream. If you believe that turbulence
will die out due to viscosity in half a second, you haven't
spoken with any aircraft pilots.
>> And wouldn't turbulenced induced "ON the hot part" reduce your
>> revered bulk flow rate?
[kornball doesn't anwer the question above because he can't.]
C'mon, kornball, you've been repeatedly talking about how
turbulence saps the bulk flow rate. How're you going to get
it going "on the hot part" without reducing the bulk flow rate?
*TimDaniels*
>
>
>
>>
>> C'mon, kornball, you keep pointing out that the generation of
>> turbulence would cut down the flow rate, but you keep promoting
>> turbulence "ON the hot part". What are you, schizoid or cross-eyed
>> or dyslexic? You should look into that: https://www.amidyslexic.com/ .
>
> It's too bad you are stuck.
"kornball" double-talks:
> A thermal sensor isn't a hot part,
> it's not cooled more by a higher rate of the same temp air,
> rather change in airflow patterns is what effects it.
How do you know it wasn't in contact with a hot part?
"kornball" gets lamer and lamer:
> ... you not accepting that you jumped to a conclusion
> prematurely without testing.
I accept what generations of scientists have found
about fluid dynamics and aerodynamics in the last
one or two hundred years. I don't have to test for
gravity to know it exists and what it does. You, on
the other hand, still deny these:
"To induce turbulence within the fins and improve thermal
transmission between the air and metal, Thermalright have
modified the aluminum fins by adding 'proprietary bent winglets'."
"Simple convection is not as effective (even for the same rate
of flow of air), because of the "laminar" flow of air (where the
air at the surface of the heatsink moves slower than that further
away). This effect can be easily seen on a windy day. If you stay
close to a wall or other large area (lying on the ground works too),
it will be noticed that it is less windy than out in the open. Exactly
the same thing happens with heatsinks (but on a somewhat
reduced scale). Creating turbulence is an excellent way to defeat
this process, but this requires fans, and fans are noisy."
"The heat transfer towards the flowing air that can be achieved
with plain fins is relatively restricted. The laminar air flow that
emerges is not sufficient to carry off the heat. Therefore, attempts
are being made to improve heat transfer (fins to air) by producing
more turbulent flow using an appropriate fin geometry."
"Optimizing cooling efficiency in an LIA is achieved by using
a heatsink-based aluminum reflector, where the material has
a high thermal conductivity and the design maximizes the effects
of surface area and turbulence. Within reason, the more surface
area the better the lamp cooling. Also important is turbulence,
because of the skin effect in cooling. A thin layer of air surrounding
a cooling surface acts as a thermal insulator impeding the effect
of forced air-cooling. This layer needs to be disrupted by turbulent
airflow, which can be created by providing irregular fins and fin
geometries."
"at least some said protrusions affect said streaming of said
fluid so as to enhance the turbulence of said streaming of said
fluid, thereby enhancing convective heat transfer from said
object to said fluid."
"Turbulent air cools better. Say, for sake of argument,
you have a simple tube with a fan in the middle. The fan pulls
air from one side of the tube, and blows into the other. If you
have a hot component on the exhaust side of the fan, it will
be more efficiently cooled than on the intake side.
"This is because the air on the exhaust side of the fan
is more turbulent. For lack of a better explanation, the loops
and whorls of turbulent air moving across the surface pick
up more heat. The effective surface area of the object is
increased. (Actually, it was explained to me by saying the
effective surface area of the air is increased.) The total
volume of airflow remains the same, but turbulent air just
cools better."
"Turbulent flow is the most common form of motion of liquids
and gases playing the role of the heat-transfer medium in thermal
systems. The complexity of turbulent flow and the importance of
hydrodynamics and heat transfer in practice inspired continuing
research for methods of efficient heat augmentation by the
Lithuanian Energy Institute. The solution of this problem was directly
linked with the determination of the reaction of flow in the boundary
layer to the effect of various factors and heat transfer rate under
given conditions. The investigated factors included elevated degree
of turbulence of the external flow as well as strong acceleration and
turbulization of flow near the wall by surface roughness. The material
in this volume shows that it is possible to control the efficiency of
turbulent transfer when the vortical structure of the turbulent flow is
known."
"Comparatively speaking, turbulent flows often lead to higher
transport rate of momentum, energy and mass than laminar flows.
These features are widely made use of in energy systems in industry.
For example, turbulence enhancers such as ribs are added to
cooling systems of turbine blades and microelectronic devices
to create more turbulent motions so that the overall heat transfer
efficiency can be improved."
"kornball" wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" asked:
>> C'mon, kornball, you keep pointing out that the generation of
>> turbulence would cut down the flow rate, but you keep promoting
>> turbulence "ON the hot part". What are you, schizoid or cross-eyed
>> or dyslexic? You should look into that: https://www.amidyslexic.com/ .
>
> It's too bad you are stuck.
C'mon, kornball, which is it? Are schizoid, cross-eyed, or are
you dyslexic? When are you going to read these webpages:
"To induce turbulence within the fins and improve thermal
transmission between the air and metal, Thermalright have
modified the aluminum fins by adding 'proprietary bent winglets'."
"Simple convection is not as effective (even for the same rate
of flow of air), because of the "laminar" flow of air (where the
air at the surface of the heatsink moves slower than that further
away). This effect can be easily seen on a windy day. If you stay
close to a wall or other large area (lying on the ground works too),
it will be noticed that it is less windy than out in the open. Exactly
the same thing happens with heatsinks (but on a somewhat
reduced scale). Creating turbulence is an excellent way to defeat
this process, but this requires fans, and fans are noisy."
"The heat transfer towards the flowing air that can be achieved
with plain fins is relatively restricted. The laminar air flow that
emerges is not sufficient to carry off the heat. Therefore, attempts
are being made to improve heat transfer (fins to air) by producing
more turbulent flow using an appropriate fin geometry."
"Optimizing cooling efficiency in an LIA is achieved by using
a heatsink-based aluminum reflector, where the material has
a high thermal conductivity and the design maximizes the effects
of surface area and turbulence. Within reason, the more surface
area the better the lamp cooling. Also important is turbulence,
because of the skin effect in cooling. A thin layer of air surrounding
a cooling surface acts as a thermal insulator impeding the effect
of forced air-cooling. This layer needs to be disrupted by turbulent
airflow, which can be created by providing irregular fins and fin
geometries."
"at least some said protrusions affect said streaming of said
fluid so as to enhance the turbulence of said streaming of said
fluid, thereby enhancing convective heat transfer from said
object to said fluid."
"Turbulent air cools better. Say, for sake of argument,
you have a simple tube with a fan in the middle. The fan pulls
air from one side of the tube, and blows into the other. If you
have a hot component on the exhaust side of the fan, it will
be more efficiently cooled than on the intake side.
"This is because the air on the exhaust side of the fan
is more turbulent. For lack of a better explanation, the loops
and whorls of turbulent air moving across the surface pick
up more heat. The effective surface area of the object is
increased. (Actually, it was explained to me by saying the
effective surface area of the air is increased.) The total
volume of airflow remains the same, but turbulent air just
cools better."
"Turbulent flow is the most common form of motion of liquids
and gases playing the role of the heat-transfer medium in thermal
systems. The complexity of turbulent flow and the importance of
hydrodynamics and heat transfer in practice inspired continuing
research for methods of efficient heat augmentation by the
Lithuanian Energy Institute. The solution of this problem was directly
linked with the determination of the reaction of flow in the boundary
layer to the effect of various factors and heat transfer rate under
given conditions. The investigated factors included elevated degree
of turbulence of the external flow as well as strong acceleration and
turbulization of flow near the wall by surface roughness. The material
in this volume shows that it is possible to control the efficiency of
turbulent transfer when the vortical structure of the turbulent flow is
known."
"Comparatively speaking, turbulent flows often lead to higher
transport rate of momentum, energy and mass than laminar flows.
These features are widely made use of in energy systems in industry.
For example, turbulence enhancers such as ribs are added to
cooling systems of turbine blades and microelectronic devices
to create more turbulent motions so that the overall heat transfer
efficiency can be improved."
Re: turbulent flow not bad for cooling 
Linear Mode
