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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 04:36 PM
jw@eldorado.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default ultra66 BIOS not installed

I ask this out of ignorance.
Please.

I am trying to install a new system including an add-on PCI IDE card
to use with hard drives. As I said in an earlier post, I am having
trouble.

However, I noticed that during boot, a message flashes on the screen
saying 'Ultra BIOS not installed'.

My question is - Does this mean that (1) there is a BIOS resident on
the card (which I have read there is), and (2) it cannot be installed
moved) into the desktop BIOS? I never realized the BIOS on the card
was transferred to the desktop BIOS, What can I do to enable the
install?

Or am I off-base here?

Duke

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:54 PM
Paul
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed

jw@eldorado.com wrote:
> I ask this out of ignorance.
> Please.
>
> I am trying to install a new system including an add-on PCI IDE card
> to use with hard drives. As I said in an earlier post, I am having
> trouble.
>
> However, I noticed that during boot, a message flashes on the screen
> saying 'Ultra BIOS not installed'.
>
> My question is - Does this mean that (1) there is a BIOS resident on
> the card (which I have read there is), and (2) it cannot be installed
> moved) into the desktop BIOS? I never realized the BIOS on the card
> was transferred to the desktop BIOS, What can I do to enable the
> install?
>
> Or am I off-base here?
>
> Duke


The BIOS code on an IDE card has a fixed function. It contains
instructions on how to use the card while booting. The code may also
support a setup page, where the user interacts with the card (such
as for setting up a RAID array).

On your card, the code would be INT 0x13 or extended INT 0x13 code.
It is not "loaded" into the motherboard BIOS. Nothing happens to your
motherboard chip - the code isn't stored permanently somewhere else,
when the card is plugged in. (Some enumeration info called DMI/ESCD is
stored, but that simply says PCI slot one has a Promise Ultra66 card
in it right now. That is inventory info that can be viewed with DMI Explorer
or similar.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INT_13

If a card does not have a BIOS (say, the BIOS was erased or the
chip was pulled), the card can still work - but it cannot be used
for booting. Such a PCI storage card would be for "data only" disks.

In terms of the BIOS, a typical scenario would be -

1) Main BIOS starts scanning PCI bus.
2) The config space of a PCI card is detected.
3) The main BIOS determines the card is a storage controller.
4) The presence of a BIOS chip on the PCI card is detected.
5) The motherboard BIOS does something to execute the
PCI card BIOS. I understand there is a small (128KB) area
in the 640KB memory area, where the BIOS code may be stored. The
size limitation typically causes a problem if three storage
cards of different types are present and all want to do their
INT 0x13 thing. The video card may use 64K of that space for
the VESA BIOS. A portion of the code is removed, once initialization
is complete. If a card refuses to boot, a possible cause is a lack
of space in that storage area in RAM (even though the computer can
have gigabytes of other RAM to use).
6) The PCI Card BIOS begins its scan of the IDE connectors, looking
for drives. If no drive is connected, then the PCI card BIOS
can be safely ignored/unloaded.
No drive = "Ultra BIOS not installed"
7) If a drive is present, then the drive may occupy a position
in the boot order, as part of the add-in BIOS function is to
"register" the drive with the main BIOS.

There used to be PCI storage cards, which would somehow
"steal" IRQ14/IRQ15 and effectively disable motherboard IDE
ports. I guess this was a feature rather than a bug, and
perhaps was intended to provide a driver free installation
of an older OS to a disk on the card. It's been a while since
I've seen an account of that kind of behavior. That might
have been associated with some version of CMD 0680 based
card.

The fact you got "Ultra BIOS not installed" would normally
mean that no disk was detected during the scan. Thus the
BIOS module could be safely unloaded, and the card ignored
during the subsequent final boot choice.

In the case where a drive was detected, it looks like the
next step in the main BIOS sequence is failing.

Your PCI storage card is very old, and perhaps you should be
Googling for more information about that particular version.
On a Promise card purchased in the last few years, I wouldn't
be too worried, as you'd probably be getting the most
recent BIOS code. On older cards, it pays to load a BIOS
known to function correctly, as well as a matching OS driver.
There seems to be a correspondence between the two, so mixing
different generations of drivers and BIOS is not recommended.
I'm not aware of what the technical issue is there, just that
I've heard that warning before from Promise card owners. I haven't
had a bit of trouble with my Untra100 and Ultra133 TX2 cards -
I may have even used the drivers from the floppy included in
the box the card came in. I've also managed to boot from the
cards. I have no experience with your Ultra66 card.

There are still cards on the market if you want to buy a new
one. Check the reviews for the cards on Newegg, to get some
idea how much trouble they are.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816102007

This card is cheaper (uses an ITE 8212), but notice that
ATAPI optical support isn't really there. This may be the
fault of Masscool, for not insisting on a fully functional
add-in BIOS design from ITE. There are other cheap cards
that may work better than this, but they may only have one
IDE port on them.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815280002

Paul

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 06:33 PM
jw@eldorado.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:54:02 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

Thank you for taking the time to explain all this.

>The BIOS code on an IDE card has a fixed function. It contains
>instructions on how to use the card while booting. The code may also
>support a setup page, where the user interacts with the card (such
>as for setting up a RAID array).
>
>On your card, the code would be INT 0x13 or extended INT 0x13 code.
>It is not "loaded" into the motherboard BIOS. Nothing happens to your
>motherboard chip - the code isn't stored permanently somewhere else,
>when the card is plugged in. (Some enumeration info called DMI/ESCD is
>stored, but that simply says PCI slot one has a Promise Ultra66 card
>in it right now. That is inventory info that can be viewed with DMI Explorer
>or similar.)
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INT_13
>
>If a card does not have a BIOS (say, the BIOS was erased or the
>chip was pulled), the card can still work - but it cannot be used
>for booting. Such a PCI storage card would be for "data only" disks.


I know I was able to boot a hard drive via this card on another
computer last week. So I guess that means that the card does have a
BIOS. Not surprised.

>
>In terms of the BIOS, a typical scenario would be -
>
>1) Main BIOS starts scanning PCI bus.
>2) The config space of a PCI card is detected.
>3) The main BIOS determines the card is a storage controller.
>4) The presence of a BIOS chip on the PCI card is detected.
>5) The motherboard BIOS does something to execute the
> PCI card BIOS. I understand there is a small (128KB) area
> in the 640KB memory area, where the BIOS code may be stored. The
> size limitation typically causes a problem if three storage
> cards of different types are present and all want to do their
> INT 0x13 thing. The video card may use 64K of that space for
> the VESA BIOS. A portion of the code is removed, once initialization
> is complete. If a card refuses to boot, a possible cause is a lack
> of space in that storage area in RAM (even though the computer can
> have gigabytes of other RAM to use).
>6) The PCI Card BIOS begins its scan of the IDE connectors, looking
> for drives. If no drive is connected, then the PCI card BIOS
> can be safely ignored/unloaded.
> No drive = "Ultra BIOS not installed"
>7) If a drive is present, then the drive may occupy a position
> in the boot order, as part of the add-in BIOS function is to
> "register" the drive with the main BIOS.
>
>There used to be PCI storage cards, which would somehow
>"steal" IRQ14/IRQ15 and effectively disable motherboard IDE
>ports. I guess this was a feature rather than a bug, and
>perhaps was intended to provide a driver free installation
>of an older OS to a disk on the card. It's been a while since
>I've seen an account of that kind of behavior. That might
>have been associated with some version of CMD 0680 based
>card.
>
>The fact you got "Ultra BIOS not installed" would normally
>mean that no disk was detected during the scan. Thus the
>BIOS module could be safely unloaded, and the card ignored
>during the subsequent final boot choice.


I am getting this message despite the fact that I had a hard drive
connected. In fact, I tried two hard drives.
>
>In the case where a drive was detected, it looks like the
>next step in the main BIOS sequence is failing.


This must be where it is failing.

>
>Your PCI storage card is very old, and perhaps you should be
>Googling for more information about that particular version.


As I said, it worked last week. I could try it again in the other
computer, I guess.

>On a Promise card purchased in the last few years, I wouldn't
>be too worried, as you'd probably be getting the most
>recent BIOS code. On older cards, it pays to load a BIOS
>known to function correctly, as well as a matching OS driver.
>There seems to be a correspondence between the two, so mixing
>different generations of drivers and BIOS is not recommended.
>I'm not aware of what the technical issue is there, just that
>I've heard that warning before from Promise card owners. I haven't
>had a bit of trouble with my Untra100 and Ultra133 TX2 cards -
>I may have even used the drivers from the floppy included in
>the box the card came in. I've also managed to boot from the
>cards. I have no experience with your Ultra66 card.


Well, this new computer is much more advanced than the older one which
is a Machspeed K8M8MSR2-VC with AMD Athlon64 3200+ w/1GB DDR.
The card? I don't remember when I bought it. A while ago for sure.
This may be my problem, huh?

>
>There are still cards on the market if you want to buy a new
>one. Check the reviews for the cards on Newegg, to get some
>idea how much trouble they are.
>
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816102007
>
>This card is cheaper (uses an ITE 8212), but notice that
>ATAPI optical support isn't really there. This may be the
>fault of Masscool, for not insisting on a fully functional
>add-in BIOS design from ITE. There are other cheap cards
>that may work better than this, but they may only have one
>IDE port on them.
>
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815280002
>
> Paul


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 07:37 PM
Mike Walsh
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed



jw@eldorado.com wrote:
>
> I ask this out of ignorance.
> Please.
>
> I am trying to install a new system including an add-on PCI IDE card
> to use with hard drives. As I said in an earlier post, I am having
> trouble.
>
> However, I noticed that during boot, a message flashes on the screen
> saying 'Ultra BIOS not installed'.
>
> My question is - Does this mean that (1) there is a BIOS resident on
> the card (which I have read there is)


Yes.

> (2) it cannot be installed
> moved) into the desktop BIOS? I never realized the BIOS on the card
> was transferred to the desktop BIOS, What can I do to enable the
> install?


It is normal for the message "BIOS not installed" to appear if there are no bootable devices connected to the card. If there are bootable devices attached to the card the devices will be listed and the BIOS "installed" i.e. loaded into memory.
The Ultra card BIOS is needed to boot from an attached drive. The Ultra card emulates SCSI and must be selected in the system BIOS configuration as the boot device if you want to boot from the drive attached to the Ultra card.

> Or am I off-base here?
>
> Duke


--
Mike Walsh

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:47 PM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:33:04 -0500, jw@eldorado.com wrote:


>>The fact you got "Ultra BIOS not installed" would normally
>>mean that no disk was detected during the scan. Thus the
>>BIOS module could be safely unloaded, and the card ignored
>>during the subsequent final boot choice.

>
>I am getting this message despite the fact that I had a hard drive
>connected. In fact, I tried two hard drives.




Keep in mind that an Ultra66, unlike Ultra100 or 133,
doesn't support 48bit LBA, drives over 128GB in size. They
never released a bios that allows 48bit LBA either. I once
wondered what would happen if I flashed a Ultra100 bios to a
Ultra66 card but never got around to trying it.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 01:21 AM
jw@eldorado.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:47:53 -0500, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:


>Keep in mind that an Ultra66, unlike Ultra100 or 133,
>doesn't support 48bit LBA, drives over 128GB in size.



Most of my drives that I am trying do not exceed 80Mb.
Thanks for the tip.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 02:59 PM
John McGaw
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed

jw@eldorado.com wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:54:02 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you for taking the time to explain all this.
>
>> The BIOS code on an IDE card has a fixed function. It contains
>> instructions on how to use the card while booting. The code may also
>> support a setup page, where the user interacts with the card (such
>> as for setting up a RAID array).
>>
>> On your card, the code would be INT 0x13 or extended INT 0x13 code.
>> It is not "loaded" into the motherboard BIOS. Nothing happens to your
>> motherboard chip - the code isn't stored permanently somewhere else,
>> when the card is plugged in. (Some enumeration info called DMI/ESCD is
>> stored, but that simply says PCI slot one has a Promise Ultra66 card
>> in it right now. That is inventory info that can be viewed with DMI Explorer
>> or similar.)
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INT_13
>>
>> If a card does not have a BIOS (say, the BIOS was erased or the
>> chip was pulled), the card can still work - but it cannot be used
>> for booting. Such a PCI storage card would be for "data only" disks.

>
> I know I was able to boot a hard drive via this card on another
> computer last week. So I guess that means that the card does have a
> BIOS. Not surprised.
>
>> In terms of the BIOS, a typical scenario would be -
>>
>> 1) Main BIOS starts scanning PCI bus.
>> 2) The config space of a PCI card is detected.
>> 3) The main BIOS determines the card is a storage controller.
>> 4) The presence of a BIOS chip on the PCI card is detected.
>> 5) The motherboard BIOS does something to execute the
>> PCI card BIOS. I understand there is a small (128KB) area
>> in the 640KB memory area, where the BIOS code may be stored. The
>> size limitation typically causes a problem if three storage
>> cards of different types are present and all want to do their
>> INT 0x13 thing. The video card may use 64K of that space for
>> the VESA BIOS. A portion of the code is removed, once initialization
>> is complete. If a card refuses to boot, a possible cause is a lack
>> of space in that storage area in RAM (even though the computer can
>> have gigabytes of other RAM to use).
>> 6) The PCI Card BIOS begins its scan of the IDE connectors, looking
>> for drives. If no drive is connected, then the PCI card BIOS
>> can be safely ignored/unloaded.
>> No drive = "Ultra BIOS not installed"
>> 7) If a drive is present, then the drive may occupy a position
>> in the boot order, as part of the add-in BIOS function is to
>> "register" the drive with the main BIOS.
>>
>> There used to be PCI storage cards, which would somehow
>> "steal" IRQ14/IRQ15 and effectively disable motherboard IDE
>> ports. I guess this was a feature rather than a bug, and
>> perhaps was intended to provide a driver free installation
>> of an older OS to a disk on the card. It's been a while since
>> I've seen an account of that kind of behavior. That might
>> have been associated with some version of CMD 0680 based
>> card.
>>
>> The fact you got "Ultra BIOS not installed" would normally
>> mean that no disk was detected during the scan. Thus the
>> BIOS module could be safely unloaded, and the card ignored
>> during the subsequent final boot choice.

>
> I am getting this message despite the fact that I had a hard drive
> connected. In fact, I tried two hard drives.
>> In the case where a drive was detected, it looks like the
>> next step in the main BIOS sequence is failing.

>
> This must be where it is failing.
>
>> Your PCI storage card is very old, and perhaps you should be
>> Googling for more information about that particular version.

>
> As I said, it worked last week. I could try it again in the other
> computer, I guess.
>
>> On a Promise card purchased in the last few years, I wouldn't
>> be too worried, as you'd probably be getting the most
>> recent BIOS code. On older cards, it pays to load a BIOS
>> known to function correctly, as well as a matching OS driver.
>> There seems to be a correspondence between the two, so mixing
>> different generations of drivers and BIOS is not recommended.
>> I'm not aware of what the technical issue is there, just that
>> I've heard that warning before from Promise card owners. I haven't
>> had a bit of trouble with my Untra100 and Ultra133 TX2 cards -
>> I may have even used the drivers from the floppy included in
>> the box the card came in. I've also managed to boot from the
>> cards. I have no experience with your Ultra66 card.

>
> Well, this new computer is much more advanced than the older one which
> is a Machspeed K8M8MSR2-VC with AMD Athlon64 3200+ w/1GB DDR.
> The card? I don't remember when I bought it. A while ago for sure.
> This may be my problem, huh?
>
>> There are still cards on the market if you want to buy a new
>> one. Check the reviews for the cards on Newegg, to get some
>> idea how much trouble they are.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816102007
>>
>> This card is cheaper (uses an ITE 8212), but notice that
>> ATAPI optical support isn't really there. This may be the
>> fault of Masscool, for not insisting on a fully functional
>> add-in BIOS design from ITE. There are other cheap cards
>> that may work better than this, but they may only have one
>> IDE port on them.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815280002
>>
>> Paul


I have run similar cards to yours with a variety of computers. Just got
done moving a pair of them from an ancient dual-PIII MB into a newly-built
Celeron MB in my "server" and the operation was identical in both. Despite
the cards being from Adaptec and Rosewill the guts are identically Silicon
Image controller chips and both use the same driver. Both cards announce
their BIOS upon startup. The Adaptec tells me to press F3 for
configuration, but the Rosewill has no setup. Once the system is booted
into Windoze the on-card BIOSs are ignored and access to the associated
five drives is via normal driver methods.

Does your card use a driver and is it current? Does your BIOS have _any_
switches having to do with I/O functions such as the card provides?

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:20 PM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed

On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 09:59:10 -0500, John McGaw
<nobody@nowh.ere> wrote:


>I have run similar cards to yours with a variety of computers. Just got
>done moving a pair of them from an ancient dual-PIII MB into a newly-built
>Celeron MB in my "server" and the operation was identical in both. Despite
>the cards being from Adaptec and Rosewill the guts are identically Silicon
>Image controller chips and both use the same driver. Both cards announce
>their BIOS upon startup. The Adaptec tells me to press F3 for
>configuration, but the Rosewill has no setup. Once the system is booted
>into Windoze the on-card BIOSs are ignored and access to the associated
>five drives is via normal driver methods.
>
>Does your card use a driver and is it current? Does your BIOS have _any_
>switches having to do with I/O functions such as the card provides?



Having ran a couple of the Silicon Image cards in multiple
different systems myself, I find that which card's bios pops
up the "Hit F3" depends on which slot they're in. IOW, if
you swapped the slot positions of the Adaptec and Rosewill
cards, I'd expect you then have the Rosewill popping up the
F3 config message instead of the Adaptec. In some
motherboards, I couldn't get both of the cards to work, so
it seems the bios or other factors matter. Ironically
enough one of the systems in which they worked was a Compaq
OEM board with very few user changeable bios settings, all
left at their defaults.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:37 PM
John McGaw
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed

kony wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 09:59:10 -0500, John McGaw
> <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote:
>
>
>> I have run similar cards to yours with a variety of computers. Just got
>> done moving a pair of them from an ancient dual-PIII MB into a newly-built
>> Celeron MB in my "server" and the operation was identical in both. Despite
>> the cards being from Adaptec and Rosewill the guts are identically Silicon
>> Image controller chips and both use the same driver. Both cards announce
>> their BIOS upon startup. The Adaptec tells me to press F3 for
>> configuration, but the Rosewill has no setup. Once the system is booted
>> into Windoze the on-card BIOSs are ignored and access to the associated
>> five drives is via normal driver methods.
>>
>> Does your card use a driver and is it current? Does your BIOS have _any_
>> switches having to do with I/O functions such as the card provides?

>
>
> Having ran a couple of the Silicon Image cards in multiple
> different systems myself, I find that which card's bios pops
> up the "Hit F3" depends on which slot they're in. IOW, if
> you swapped the slot positions of the Adaptec and Rosewill
> cards, I'd expect you then have the Rosewill popping up the
> F3 config message instead of the Adaptec. In some
> motherboards, I couldn't get both of the cards to work, so
> it seems the bios or other factors matter. Ironically
> enough one of the systems in which they worked was a Compaq
> OEM board with very few user changeable bios settings, all
> left at their defaults.


That might well be it. I noticed when I moved the cards to the new computer
that rather than both cards' BIOS messages popping up sequentially on a
single black screen as they used to in the old system they now appear on
different screens. In any case there is really nothing I want or need to do
with the cards' BIOS settings and I have never even tried to see what F3
would do. As long as the drives are pumping bytes and extending the useful
lives of my old storage hardware I'm happy...

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2009, 01:23 PM
larry moe 'n curly
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: ultra66 BIOS not installed



j...@eldorado.com wrote:

> I am trying to install a new system including an add-on PCI IDE card
> to use with hard drives. As I said in an earlier post, I am having
> trouble.
>
> However, I noticed that during boot, a message flashes on the screen
> saying 'Ultra BIOS not installed'.


I had major problems using a Promise/Maxtor Ultra 100 card and a
Silicon Image 680 card with a couple of nVidia based PCI-e mobos, an
ECS GeForce6100SM-M and nForce6M-A. One of the cards caused
continuous rebooting, and the Promise card didn't get along with the
first mobo's own PATA controller. There were no problems using them
with an nForce 3 mobo with AGP slot.


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