I’ve been butting heads for the past couple days with one of my APC
UPS(s). It’s an APC Smart UPS (DLA)1500.
A day or two ago it started with the beeps. Previous to this one of
my servers had randomly shut down a couple times, with the event logs
saying it was due to a command from the UPS service (we turned UPS
monitoring off the more important servers (the server that shutdown
was a backup domain controller)). So, the beeps start, and the
blinking red light. Both, seemingly, attempting to inform me that I
need to "Replace Battery." The Replace Battery light is on, so, I
replaced it. Well over 24 hours later, the light still shines, new
battery and all.
Now, I can only guess as to the problem. Maybe, the problem lies
within the cables connecting the battery to the rest of the UPS. But,
to be truthful, I’m a bit afraid to try to take off the metal plate,
that lies beyond the battery, to investigate the source of the cable.
I’m pretty much at a loss for ideas. I’ve never really had to deal
with UPS(s) before.
Advice, comments, complaints, questions, concerns... all welcome.
In message <42fa61ae.169392156@news-server.houston.rr.com> spam@uce.gov
(Bob) wrote:
>On 10 Aug 2005 15:38:26 -0400, mmX <UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Advice, comments, complaints, questions, concerns... all welcome.
>
>Take it back, get a refund and buy Tripp Lite 750 VA Internet UPS
>(UPS-INTERNET750U) for $62 from Directron.
And only half the capacity of the one that the parent spec'd out. Good
plan!
--
A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:38:26 -0300, mmX
<UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I’ve been butting heads for the past couple days with one of my APC
> UPS(s). It’s an APC Smart UPS (DLA)1500.
> A day or two ago it started with the beeps. Previous to this one of
> my servers had randomly shut down a couple times, with the event logs
> saying it was due to a command from the UPS service (we turned UPS
> monitoring off the more important servers (the server that shutdown
> was a backup domain controller)). So, the beeps start, and the
> blinking red light. Both, seemingly, attempting to inform me that I
> need to "Replace Battery." The Replace Battery light is on, so, I
> replaced it. Well over 24 hours later, the light still shines, new
> battery and all.
> Now, I can only guess as to the problem. Maybe, the problem lies
> within the cables connecting the battery to the rest of the UPS. But,
> to be truthful, I’m a bit afraid to try to take off the metal plate,
> that lies beyond the battery, to investigate the source of the cable.
> I’m pretty much at a loss for ideas. I’ve never really had to deal
> with UPS(s) before.
> Advice, comments, complaints, questions, concerns... all welcome.
did you ully condition the new battery and do a hard reset of the
monitoring circuit?
It would help to have as much information as possible. For example, I
had to tell them that my PSU is 350 W and my CRT draws 2.8 A. The
cable modem and NAT router are inconsequential. According to Tripp
Lite my system needs only 300 VA, so I have over twice the capacity.
Put only those things on the UPS that are critical to keeping the
system up. You do not need a printer during a power outage so leave it
off. Every bit of power consumed from the batteries is just that much
time lost for backup.
It is possible that the new battery is defective, or not taking on charge
properly. If the battery you bought is old stock from the dealer, this can
be a problem. The battery should be properly charged, and then load tested.
If it passes the load test, then you know for sure that the UPS is
defective.
--
JANA
_____
"mmX" <UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote in message
news:7_304325_5c2fb9263fa1c1cbbdd8d7f0e5ab3e26@har dwareforumz.com...
Hello,
I've been butting heads for the past couple days with one of my APC
UPS(s). It's an APC Smart UPS (DLA)1500.
A day or two ago it started with the beeps. Previous to this one of
my servers had randomly shut down a couple times, with the event logs
saying it was due to a command from the UPS service (we turned UPS
monitoring off the more important servers (the server that shutdown
was a backup domain controller)). So, the beeps start, and the
blinking red light. Both, seemingly, attempting to inform me that I
need to "Replace Battery." The Replace Battery light is on, so, I
replaced it. Well over 24 hours later, the light still shines, new
battery and all.
Now, I can only guess as to the problem. Maybe, the problem lies
within the cables connecting the battery to the rest of the UPS. But,
to be truthful, I'm a bit afraid to try to take off the metal plate,
that lies beyond the battery, to investigate the source of the cable.
I'm pretty much at a loss for ideas. I've never really had to deal
with UPS(s) before.
Advice, comments, complaints, questions, concerns... all welcome.
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 09:34:26 -0400, "JANA" <jana@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>It is possible that the new battery is defective, or not taking on charge
>properly. If the battery you bought is old stock from the dealer, this can
>be a problem. The battery should be properly charged, and then load tested.
>If it passes the load test, then you know for sure that the UPS is
>defective.
Please do not top post. Thanks.
The UPS should, at the very least, have an indicator that the battery
is charged.
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:09:42 GMT, spam@uce.gov (Bob) wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:54:04 -0600, DevilsPGD <spamsucks@crazyhat.net>
>wrote:
>
>>>Take it back, get a refund and buy Tripp Lite 750 VA Internet UPS
>>>(UPS-INTERNET750U) for $62 from Directron.
>
>>And only half the capacity of the one that the parent spec'd out. Good
>>plan!
>
>Contact Tripp Lite tech support and they can spec your system.
>
>http://www.tripplite.com/about/contact/tech_request.cfm
>
>It would help to have as much information as possible. For example, I
>had to tell them that my PSU is 350 W and my CRT draws 2.8 A. The
>cable modem and NAT router are inconsequential. According to Tripp
>Lite my system needs only 300 VA, so I have over twice the capacity.
No, you can't presume a 300VA will supply enough current as
a simple 300/110 equation. 500VA in a (consumer rated UPS
like you mentioned) would be bare minimum useful for a
modern system using a (17" or larger) CRT monitor. Unlike a
basic lead-acid battery alone, they cannot be presumed to be
capable of higher current for shorter duration- the
transformer and (probably a few other parts) aren't large
enough. The typical 350VA consumer grade types will (and
have often been seen to) shut down from overload when a
modern system with no more than a 350W PSU and CRT are
connected.
A larger monitor and more powerful PC system alone can be
too much for a 500VA APC/etc consumer series UPS.
>
>Put only those things on the UPS that are critical to keeping the
>system up. You do not need a printer during a power outage so leave it
>off. Every bit of power consumed from the batteries is just that much
>time lost for backup.
True, though an inkjet is a relatively light load, if you
find you suddenly need a critical backup made you can
always, simply unplug the printer at that time.
IMO, better to spec at least 750VA for a modern system with
a CRT.
On 10 Aug 2005 15:38:26 -0400, mmX
<UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I’ve been butting heads for the past couple days with one of my APC
>UPS(s). It’s an APC Smart UPS (DLA)1500.
>A day or two ago it started with the beeps. Previous to this one of
>my servers had randomly shut down a couple times, with the event logs
>saying it was due to a command from the UPS service (we turned UPS
>monitoring off the more important servers (the server that shutdown
>was a backup domain controller)). So, the beeps start, and the
>blinking red light. Both, seemingly, attempting to inform me that I
>need to "Replace Battery." The Replace Battery light is on, so, I
>replaced it. Well over 24 hours later, the light still shines, new
>battery and all.
>Now, I can only guess as to the problem. Maybe, the problem lies
>within the cables connecting the battery to the rest of the UPS. But,
>to be truthful, I’m a bit afraid to try to take off the metal plate,
>that lies beyond the battery, to investigate the source of the cable.
>I’m pretty much at a loss for ideas. I’ve never really had to deal
>with UPS(s) before.
>Advice, comments, complaints, questions, concerns... all welcome.
Check for a reset button.
Does the UPS work properly beyond that issue of the light
shining?
Check the battery voltage.
UPS naturally have high voltage potential inside, given that
you are weary of opening it up, it could be best to take it
to a qualified repair person or simly replace it IF the
above doesn't help.
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:53:35 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>>It would help to have as much information as possible. For example, I
>>had to tell them that my PSU is 350 W and my CRT draws 2.8 A. The
>>cable modem and NAT router are inconsequential. According to Tripp
>>Lite my system needs only 300 VA, so I have over twice the capacity.
>No, you can't presume a 300VA will supply enough current as
>a simple 300/110 equation.
Here's what happened. I called T-L and a woman took my call. She
sounded inexperienced. When I gave her the figures she did a
calculation similar to the one you are doing. The result exceeded the
capacity of my UPS. Then later I called again on another matter and
got a man who sounded experienced. He is the one who told me the
manual had errors - something the woman failed to tell me about yet we
were working from the manual. The man ran my data thru a program he
uses to calculate the real power consumption. He came up with 300 VA.
I challenged him using the calculations the woman had presented to me
and he laughed - he said that those calculations do not take into
account the actual consumption, only the maximum under stress
conditions. He said that as long as I was not stressing my system the
300 VA figure would work. Later I tested the UPS by cutting power off
at the circuit breaker (which maintains proper grounding) and I got 15
minutes of backup, which is what I set the backup for before shutting
the computer down remotely (the UPS has a USB connection). If I had
used the woman's calculations, the UPS would have never gone on backup
much less operated for 15 minutes.
The lesson to be learned here is to be sure to consult the experts.
Not everything works according to some theoretical formula.
>IMO, better to spec at least 750VA for a modern system with
>a CRT.
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 05:20:23 GMT, spam@uce.gov (Bob) wrote:
>Here's what happened. I called T-L and a woman took my call. She
>sounded inexperienced. When I gave her the figures she did a
>calculation similar to the one you are doing. The result exceeded the
>capacity of my UPS. Then later I called again on another matter and
>got a man who sounded experienced. He is the one who told me the
>manual had errors - something the woman failed to tell me about yet we
>were working from the manual. The man ran my data thru a program he
>uses to calculate the real power consumption. He came up with 300 VA.
>I challenged him using the calculations the woman had presented to me
>and he laughed - he said that those calculations do not take into
>account the actual consumption, only the maximum under stress
>conditions. He said that as long as I was not stressing my system the
>300 VA figure would work. Later I tested the UPS by cutting power off
>at the circuit breaker (which maintains proper grounding) and I got 15
>minutes of backup, which is what I set the backup for before shutting
>the computer down remotely (the UPS has a USB connection). If I had
>used the woman's calculations, the UPS would have never gone on backup
>much less operated for 15 minutes.
>
>The lesson to be learned here is to be sure to consult the experts.
>Not everything works according to some theoretical formula.
True, and unfortunately some compare apples and others
oranges. Unfortunately with an UPS it isn't just a matter
of runtime, many users might like to have a mere 5 minutes
to save work and shut down if not 15+ minutes, but the
sustained current capability of the smaller VA UPS is also
lower. I have a fairly recent vintage APC 350VA UPS around
here somewhere- it won't power half of my most modern
systems for ANY period of time, the moment the power cuts
off the UPS shuts off too becaues it's overloaded from only
a box and CRT monitor. A 500VA APC UPS in same scenario
usually doesn't shut down for a few minutes.
Stripping the two units down they're quire similar inside,
one with a 3(?) AH battery and the other 7AH but primarily
the 500VA has a larger transformer. The casing on the two
is actually identical but for an obviously-removable
paritition-molding scheme used to fill in the remainder of
the battery chamber for models using the 3(?)AH battery
rather than the 7AH.
>
>>IMO, better to spec at least 750VA for a modern system with
>>a CRT.
>
>That's what I have - a 750 VA UPS.
>
It's a nice size- they start getting rather expensive if you
go much higher.
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 10:49:11 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>I have a fairly recent vintage APC 350VA UPS around
>here somewhere- it won't power half of my most modern
>systems for ANY period of time, the moment the power cuts
>off the UPS shuts off too becaues it's overloaded from only
>a box and CRT monitor. A 500VA APC UPS in same scenario
>usually doesn't shut down for a few minutes.
What do you consider a "modern system"?
Although the tech support guy claimed that my system as I described it
- 350 W PSU and 21" Viewsonic graphics CTR with 2.8 A max current -
would only require 300 VA, I would not want to run it on a 350 VA UPS.
But it does run for at least 15 min on my 750 VA unit. so everything
worked out.
I suspect that 2.8 A max for the CRT is a turn on surge rating, and
the steady run current is a lot less. 2.8 A at 120 VAC is 336 W which
is a bit warm. Yet my CRT does not appear to be generating that kind
of heat.
The prospective UPS buyer is well served by doing the necessary
research in advance of the purchase. But then that is a good rule to
follow on most major system components.
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:44:41 GMT, spam@uce.gov (Bob) wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 10:49:11 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>I have a fairly recent vintage APC 350VA UPS around
>>here somewhere- it won't power half of my most modern
>>systems for ANY period of time, the moment the power cuts
>>off the UPS shuts off too becaues it's overloaded from only
>>a box and CRT monitor. A 500VA APC UPS in same scenario
>>usually doesn't shut down for a few minutes.
>
>What do you consider a "modern system"?
? Depends on context. Here I'd call it anything less than
2 years old.
>
>Although the tech support guy claimed that my system as I described it
>- 350 W PSU and 21" Viewsonic graphics CTR with 2.8 A max current -
>would only require 300 VA, I would not want to run it on a 350 VA UPS.
>But it does run for at least 15 min on my 750 VA unit. so everything
>worked out.
Remember that a tech support guy is simply a phone-operator,
a CSR, not one of the design engineers. If they claim the
calculations result in a "300VA" unit being able to run a
modern system (including a 17" or larger CRT) for ANY amount
of time then by their own accounts their 350VA UPS may be
defective or false-advertised.
>
>I suspect that 2.8 A max for the CRT is a turn on surge rating, and
>the steady run current is a lot less. 2.8 A at 120 VAC is 336 W which
>is a bit warm. Yet my CRT does not appear to be generating that kind
>of heat.
Yes it is only a surge rating, I dont' recall exact figures
but closer to 1.2A seems more reasonable for a 19" CRT
running a typical environement with mostly light-colored
background (brightness).
>
>The prospective UPS buyer is well served by doing the necessary
>research in advance of the purchase. But then that is a good rule to
>follow on most major system components.
Research is good, of course, but to a certain extent it
could be easier to just buy a 500VA UPS for aging systems
and 750VA or more for a modern system. That is at least
within the context of the consumer-grade UPS where corners
are cut as much as (reasonably?) possible to reach low
price-points.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:27:23 GMT, spam@uce.gov (Bob) wrote:
>On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:23:08 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>Remember that a tech support guy is simply a phone-operator,
>>a CSR, not one of the design engineers.
>
>That is not universally true, especially for specialty items.
>
>Anyway this guy knew a lot more than any Level 1 phone-operator.
>
>
It's certainly possible he was very knowledgeable, but not
necessarily a sign of complete knowledge on the topic,
enough to have (for example) an exact, accurate figure on
max current per UPS model to keep it under the
shut-off/overload threshold. I'd love it if we could call a
company and talk directly to the responsible engineers...
but then on the other hand, they might have better things to
do with their time than talking to customers.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 03:34:44 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>>Anyway this guy knew a lot more than any Level 1 phone-operator.
>It's certainly possible he was very knowledgeable, but not
>necessarily a sign of complete knowledge on the topic,
>enough to have (for example) an exact, accurate figure on
>max current per UPS model to keep it under the
>shut-off/overload threshold.
Neither of us has any way to know whether he did or did not possess
"complete knowledge" on the topic. From what he did say to me, he
showed that he knew what he was talking about. He gave me the
impression of having direct hands-on experience. He explained what was
going on, rather than just read from a knowledge base on the computer
in front of him. That's the fastest way I know of validating someone -
ask them why something happens and then assess the level of response.
This guy had detailed hands-on knowledge. For all I know the computer
program he used to assess my requirements was a proprietary
engineering design program that a real Level 1 would never use. The
first person I talked to was most definitely a L1 and she did not use
any program. In fact she came up with a requirement higher than 750
VA. Yet the UPS was able to operate for at least 15 minutes with no
sign of the battery being drained to a critical level. So he was right
and she was wrong.
>I'd love it if we could call a
>company and talk directly to the responsible engineers...
>but then on the other hand, they might have better things to
>do with their time than talking to customers.
They have time for real customers - the OEMs. They just don't have
time for end user consumers.
And I can't blame them. Most consumer calls are from idiots who can't
think for themselves.
That's why Level 1 is populated by telephone-operators, which is a
kinder, gentler way of referring to another kind of idiot.
My experience with various brands of smaller UPSs is that the battery monitors are essentially useless. They will indicated that a good battery is bad, or that a bad battery is good. I test them by connecting a volt meter to the battery, use a light bulb for a dummy load, and pull the plug from the wall outlet.
mmX wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I’ve been butting heads for the past couple days with one of my APC
> UPS(s). It’s an APC Smart UPS (DLA)1500.
> A day or two ago it started with the beeps. Previous to this one of
> my servers had randomly shut down a couple times, with the event logs
> saying it was due to a command from the UPS service (we turned UPS
> monitoring off the more important servers (the server that shutdown
> was a backup domain controller)). So, the beeps start, and the
> blinking red light. Both, seemingly, attempting to inform me that I
> need to "Replace Battery." The Replace Battery light is on, so, I
> replaced it. Well over 24 hours later, the light still shines, new
> battery and all.
> Now, I can only guess as to the problem. Maybe, the problem lies
> within the cables connecting the battery to the rest of the UPS. But,
> to be truthful, I’m a bit afraid to try to take off the metal plate,
> that lies beyond the battery, to investigate the source of the cable.
> I’m pretty much at a loss for ideas. I’ve never really had to deal
> with UPS(s) before.
> Advice, comments, complaints, questions, concerns... all welcome.
>
> --
> Posted using the http://www.hardwareforumz.com interface, at author's request
> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
> Topic URL: http://www.hardwareforumz.com/Genera...pict60219.html
> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse: http://www.hardwareforumz.com/eform.php?p=304325
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:26:54 -0400, Mike Walsh <spamscks@netrox.net>
wrote:
>My experience with various brands of smaller UPSs is that the battery monitors are essentially useless. They will indicated that a good battery is bad, or that a bad battery is good. I test them by connecting a volt meter to the battery, use a light bulb for a dummy load, and pull the plug from the wall outlet.
It is recommended that you trip the circuit breaker instead of pulling
the plug at the recepticle. The reason is that you will lose ground
which makes everything connected to the UPS float above ground. If you
have other equipement connected that is grounded, such as devices on a
LAN, they will see the neutral wire of the Ethernet cable different
from ground.
Some people do not think this is important, and for all I know it
isn't. But I was warned by Tripp Lite so I follow their advice. But if
you don't care if you fry other devices, go ahead and listen to those
who know better.
What can the collective say about a UPS? 
Linear Mode
