Go Back   Wireless and Wifi Forums > News > Newsgroups > alt.comp.hardware
Register FAQ Forum Rules Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Advertise Mark Forums Read

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 08:20 PM
void.no.spam.com@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?

Will the temperature of the CPU go up?

Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?

What else could happen?


Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 08:57 PM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote

> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?


The power supply fan isnt rotating at the correct speed.

> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?


Not usually unless thats the only fan that moves air from inside the case to outside.

> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?


Nope.

> What else could happen?


The power supply can die when it isnt getting adequate cooling
and that can kill stuff powered by it if its badly designed.



Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 09:45 PM
Ken
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dyingfan?

Rod Speed wrote:
> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote
>
>> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?

>
> The power supply fan isnt rotating at the correct speed.
>
>> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?

>
> Not usually unless thats the only fan that moves air from inside the case to outside.
>
>> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?

>
> Nope.


Ever heard of "Thermal runaway?" If the PS is supplying the voltages
to the MB and the PS gets too hot, please explain why this will not happen.


>
>> What else could happen?

>
> The power supply can die when it isnt getting adequate cooling
> and that can kill stuff powered by it if its badly designed.
>
>


Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 10:21 PM
DaveW
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

The PSU WOULD overheat, short out, and quite possibly fry the motherboard
during it's death.

--

DaveW

___________
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1173730849.566842.286880@t69g2000cwt.googlegr oups.com...
> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?
>
> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?
>
> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?
>
> What else could happen?
>




Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 11:00 PM
JAD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?


<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1173730849.566842.286880@t69g2000cwt.googlegr oups.com...
> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?
>
> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?
>
> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?
>
> What else could happen?
>

almost the same thing as running your car with no fan cooling the fluid. Cook baby cook
until you can least afford a catastrophic failure, then poof!



Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 06:34 AM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote


>>> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?


>> The power supply fan isnt rotating at the correct speed.


>>> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?


>> Not usually unless thats the only fan that moves air from inside the case to outside.


>>> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?


>> Nope.


> Ever heard of "Thermal runaway?"


Doesnt happen with power supplys.

> If the PS is supplying the voltages to the MB and the PS gets too hot, please explain why this
> will not happen.


Because the ATX specs say that if the output rails go out of limits, an
entirely separate system is supposed to shut the power supply down.

>>> What else could happen?


>> The power supply can die when it isnt getting adequate cooling
>> and that can kill stuff powered by it if its badly designed.




Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 06:36 AM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

DaveW <vorgons@rumba.org> wrote

> The PSU WOULD overheat, short out,


Not necessarily, I have seen plenty just get noticeably
hot when the fan isnt even rotating anymore.

> and quite possibly fry the motherboard during it's death.


> <void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote


>> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?


>> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?


>> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?


>> What else could happen?




Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 08:23 AM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On 12 Mar 2007 13:20:49 -0700, "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:

>What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?
>


Is this a trick question?

Fan isn't spinning, or spinning noticable slower, or getting
noisey like a vibration sort of sound.



>Will the temperature of the CPU go up?


Depends on whether your case cooling depends much on the PSU
for moving air around the CPU. In a good configuration for
a higher-powered/performance system, the CPU wouldn't get
much hotter but in some it would.


>
>Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?


If the PSU was getting terribly hot, maybe. If it's that
bad, you may have permanent stress to the PSU and should
replace it.


>
>What else could happen?


PSU goes up in smoke, components fried, fire, system won't
turn on next time you try it, etc.

It should be pretty obvious, either the fan is operating
smoothly as always or it isn't.


Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 11:26 AM
John Doe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

"void.no.spam.com@gmail.com" <void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:

> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?
>
> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?
>
> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?
>
> What else could happen?
>
>


The fumes cause you to cross post silly questions.

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 01:25 PM
Ken
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dyingfan?

Rod Speed wrote:
> Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote

>
>>>> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?

>
>>> The power supply fan isnt rotating at the correct speed.

>
>>>> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?

>
>>> Not usually unless thats the only fan that moves air from inside the case to outside.

>
>>>> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?

>
>>> Nope.

>
>> Ever heard of "Thermal runaway?"

>
> Doesnt happen with power supplys.


Dear Rod Speed,

I have good news and bad news. First the good news: I commend you for
trying to help posters seeking help, although sometimes I think your
choice of words and tone could be less insulting.

Now the bad news: I suggest you investigate your comment regarding
Thermal Runaway having no effect on power supplies. One of us got
cheated in our electronics schooling and experience. If on the other
hand you have some literature to support your theory, PLEASE post it as
I have always been eager to learn about electronic in my 40+ years of
practice. I readily admit there is much I do not know, and the field
changes daily. Also, I am sure that NASA, other government agencies,
and even the makers of power supplies would be appreciative to know that
heat is not a problem and they could forgo the cooling fans and heat
shielding they install. Just think, the gold being put on satellites to
reflect sunlight could also be eliminated.

I look forward to your reply.
>
>> If the PS is supplying the voltages to the MB and the PS gets too hot, please explain why this
>> will not happen.

>
> Because the ATX specs say that if the output rails go out of limits, an
> entirely separate system is supposed to shut the power supply down.
>
>>>> What else could happen?

>
>>> The power supply can die when it isnt getting adequate cooling
>>> and that can kill stuff powered by it if its badly designed.

>
>


Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 01:28 PM
Ken
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dyingfan?

Rod Speed wrote:
> Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote

>
>>>> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?

>
>>> The power supply fan isnt rotating at the correct speed.

>
>>>> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?

>
>>> Not usually unless thats the only fan that moves air from inside the case to outside.

>
>>>> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?

>
>>> Nope.

>
>> Ever heard of "Thermal runaway?"

>
> Doesnt happen with power supplys.



Dear Rod Speed,

I have good news and bad news. First the good news: I commend you
for trying to help posters seeking help, although sometimes I think your
choice of words and tone could be less insulting.

Now the bad news: I suggest you investigate your comment regarding
Thermal Runaway having no effect on power supplies. One of us got
cheated in our electronics schooling and experience. If on the other
hand you have some literature to support your theory, PLEASE post it as
I have always been eager to learn about electronics in my 40+ years of
practice. I readily admit there is much I do not know, and the field
changes daily. Also, I am sure that NASA, other government agencies,
and even the makers of power supplies would be appreciative to know that
heat is not a problem and they could forgo the cooling fans and heat
shielding they install. Just think, the gold being put on satellites to
reflect sunlight could also be eliminated.

I look forward to your reply.


>
>> If the PS is supplying the voltages to the MB and the PS gets too hot, please explain why this
>> will not happen.

>
> Because the ATX specs say that if the output rails go out of limits, an
> entirely separate system is supposed to shut the power supply down.
>
>>>> What else could happen?

>
>>> The power supply can die when it isnt getting adequate cooling
>>> and that can kill stuff powered by it if its badly designed.

>
>


Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 04:14 PM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:36:51 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>DaveW <vorgons@rumba.org> wrote
>
>> The PSU WOULD overheat, short out,

>
>Not necessarily, I have seen plenty just get noticeably
>hot when the fan isnt even rotating anymore.
>



Depends on how hot and for how long. Sooner or later it
will kill it, unless there was quite a bit of passive
airflow from a chassis positive or negative pressurization
independent of the PSU fan, or the PSU was loafing along
running at a small fraction of it's capabilities (even then,
it is a potential problem, no modern systems are so light on
power unless built to be so from the ground up).

No matter what else happens it is a safe bet the PSU have
substantially accelerated aging from running like that more
than a few moments (while previously cold at initial system
turn-on from an extended off state).

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 04:43 PM
void.no.spam.com@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On Mar 13, 4:23 am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
> On 12 Mar 2007 13:20:49 -0700, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>
> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?

>
> Is this a trick question?
>
> Fan isn't spinning, or spinning noticable slower, or getting
> noisey like a vibration sort of sound.
>
> >Will the temperature of the CPU go up?

>
> Depends on whether your case cooling depends much on the PSU
> for moving air around the CPU. In a good configuration for
> a higher-powered/performance system, the CPU wouldn't get
> much hotter but in some it would.
>
>
>
> >Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?

>
> If the PSU was getting terribly hot, maybe. If it's that
> bad, you may have permanent stress to the PSU and should
> replace it.
>
>
>
> >What else could happen?

>
> PSU goes up in smoke, components fried, fire, system won't
> turn on next time you try it, etc.
>
> It should be pretty obvious, either the fan is operating
> smoothly as always or it isn't.


I just wanted to make sure it is OK to continue using the computer
while I decide on a replacement PSU and wait for it to arrive. Since
my CPU has a fan on it, and I also have 4 case fans, I wasn't sure if
the PSU fan was that important or not. Also, the motherboard
monitoring software reports the CPU temperature as well as voltages,
so that's why I asked those questions.

The fan seems to be spinning OK though, even though it is making loud
noises (sounds like it is struggling to spin). Disappointing, as the
PSU is a Fortron Source (FSP400-60PFN), and I had read a lot of
positive comments on that brand. And it is only one year old (and
actually had started to make noises several months ago, but they were
off and on, and now the noises are pretty much constant).



Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 05:56 PM
JAD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?


<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1173804182.972046.23600@64g2000cwx.googlegrou ps.com...
> On Mar 13, 4:23 am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
>> On 12 Mar 2007 13:20:49 -0700, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>>
>> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?

>>
>> Is this a trick question?
>>
>> Fan isn't spinning, or spinning noticable slower, or getting
>> noisey like a vibration sort of sound.
>>
>> >Will the temperature of the CPU go up?

>>
>> Depends on whether your case cooling depends much on the PSU
>> for moving air around the CPU. In a good configuration for
>> a higher-powered/performance system, the CPU wouldn't get
>> much hotter but in some it would.
>>
>>
>>
>> >Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?

>>
>> If the PSU was getting terribly hot, maybe. If it's that
>> bad, you may have permanent stress to the PSU and should
>> replace it.
>>
>>
>>
>> >What else could happen?

>>
>> PSU goes up in smoke, components fried, fire, system won't
>> turn on next time you try it, etc.
>>
>> It should be pretty obvious, either the fan is operating
>> smoothly as always or it isn't.

>
> I just wanted to make sure it is OK to continue using the computer
> while I decide on a replacement PSU and wait for it to arrive. Since
> my CPU has a fan on it, and I also have 4 case fans, I wasn't sure if
> the PSU fan was that important or not. Also, the motherboard
> monitoring software reports the CPU temperature as well as voltages,
> so that's why I asked those questions.
>
> The fan seems to be spinning OK though, even though it is making loud
> noises (sounds like it is struggling to spin). Disappointing, as the
> PSU is a Fortron Source (FSP400-60PFN), and I had read a lot of
> positive comments on that brand. And it is only one year old (and
> actually had started to make noises several months ago, but they were
> off and on, and now the noises are pretty much constant).
>
>


you have blown it out with compressed air?
the fan blades are clean?
fortron is a good brand I'm a little surprised also. 1 year ...goes to show you...still a
crap shot when it comes to PSU's



Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 07:20 PM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote


>>>>> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?


>>>> The power supply fan isnt rotating at the correct speed.


>>>>> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?


>>>> Not usually unless thats the only fan that moves air from inside the case to outside.


>>>>> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?


>>>> Nope.


>>> Ever heard of "Thermal runaway?"


>> Doesnt happen with power supplys.


> Dear Rod Speed,


Cheap gutless,

> I have good news and bad news.


Nope, just puerile silly ****.

> First the good news: I commend you for trying to help posters seeking help,


You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
irrelevant. What you may or may not 'commend' in spades.

> although sometimes I think your choice of words and tone could be less insulting.


You have always been, and always will be, completely and
utterly irrelevant. What you may or may not 'think' in spades.

> Now the bad news:


Nope, just more pig ignorant silly ****.

> I suggest you investigate your comment regarding Thermal Runaway having no effect on power
> supplies.


I order you to take your suggestion and shove it where the sun dont shine.

And I didnt say that it has no effect on power supplys anyway.

> One of us got cheated in our electronics schooling and experience.


Just how many of you are there between those ears ?

> If on the other hand you have some literature to support your theory, PLEASE post it


YOU made the claim.

YOU get to do the posting.

THATS how it works.

> as I have always been eager to learn about electronics in my 40+ years of practice.


Mine is even longer thanks.

> I readily admit there is much I do not know, and the field changes daily. Also, I am sure that
> NASA, other government agencies, and even the makers of power supplies would be appreciative to
> know that heat is not a problem and they could forgo the cooling fans and heat shielding they
> install.


Have fun explaining all those PC power supplys that
dont exhibit thermal runaway when the fan dies.

There might just be a reason why they dont.

> Just think, the gold being put on satellites to reflect sunlight could also be eliminated.


Completely and utterly irrelevant to PC power
supplys, you pathetic excuse for a ******** artist.

> I look forward to your reply.


You're always welcome to look anywhere you like.

>>> If the PS is supplying the voltages to the MB and the PS gets too hot, please explain why this
>>> will not happen.


>> Because the ATX specs say that if the output rails go out of limits, an entirely separate system
>> is supposed to shut the power supply down.


>>>>> What else could happen?


>>>> The power supply can die when it isnt getting adequate cooling
>>>> and that can kill stuff powered by it if its badly designed.




Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 07:25 PM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> DaveW <vorgons@rumba.org> wrote


>>> The PSU WOULD overheat, short out,


>> Not necessarily, I have seen plenty just get noticeably
>> hot when the fan isnt even rotating anymore.


> Depends on how hot and for how long.


Must be one of those rocket scientist pathetic excuses for a ******** artist.

> Sooner or later it will kill it,


Have fun explaining the ones I have seen that carry on regardless for years,
because the user didnt even notice and I did when I did some work on it.

> unless there was quite a bit of passive airflow from a chassis positive
> or negative pressurization independent of the PSU fan, or the PSU
> was loafing along running at a small fraction of it's capabilities


Or it was an older system which has no fans except
in the power supply and the cpu and which carrys on
fine essentially because the load isnt anything too dramatic.

> (even then, it is a potential problem, no modern systems are
> so light on power unless built to be so from the ground up).


You dont know that his is a 'modern system'

> No matter what else happens it is a safe bet the PSU have
> substantially accelerated aging from running like that more
> than a few moments (while previously cold at initial system
> turn-on from an extended off state).


Have fun explaining the ones I have seen that carry on regardless for years,
because the user didnt even notice and I did when I did some work on it.



Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2007, 12:35 AM
Ken
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dyingfan?

Rod Speed wrote:
> Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote

>
>>>>>> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?

>
>>>>> The power supply fan isnt rotating at the correct speed.

>
>>>>>> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?

>
>>>>> Not usually unless thats the only fan that moves air from inside the case to outside.

>
>>>>>> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?

>
>>>>> Nope.

>
>>>> Ever heard of "Thermal runaway?"

>
>>> Doesnt happen with power supplys.

>
>> Dear Rod Speed,

>
> Cheap gutless,
>
>> I have good news and bad news.

>
> Nope, just puerile silly ****.
>
>> First the good news: I commend you for trying to help posters seeking help,

>
> You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
> irrelevant. What you may or may not 'commend' in spades.
>
>> although sometimes I think your choice of words and tone could be less insulting.

>
> You have always been, and always will be, completely and
> utterly irrelevant. What you may or may not 'think' in spades.
>
>> Now the bad news:

>
> Nope, just more pig ignorant silly ****.
>
>> I suggest you investigate your comment regarding Thermal Runaway having no effect on power
>> supplies.

>
> I order you to take your suggestion and shove it where the sun dont shine.
>
> And I didnt say that it has no effect on power supplys anyway.
>
>> One of us got cheated in our electronics schooling and experience.

>
> Just how many of you are there between those ears ?
>
>> If on the other hand you have some literature to support your theory, PLEASE post it

>
> YOU made the claim.
>
> YOU get to do the posting.
>
> THATS how it works.
>
>> as I have always been eager to learn about electronics in my 40+ years of practice.

>
> Mine is even longer thanks.
>
>> I readily admit there is much I do not know, and the field changes daily. Also, I am sure that
>> NASA, other government agencies, and even the makers of power supplies would be appreciative to
>> know that heat is not a problem and they could forgo the cooling fans and heat shielding they
>> install.

>
> Have fun explaining all those PC power supplys that
> dont exhibit thermal runaway when the fan dies.
>
> There might just be a reason why they dont.
>
>> Just think, the gold being put on satellites to reflect sunlight could also be eliminated.

>
> Completely and utterly irrelevant to PC power
> supplys, you pathetic excuse for a ******** artist.
>
>> I look forward to your reply.

>
> You're always welcome to look anywhere you like.


Well I guess we know who got cheated in our electronics schooling and
experience!!! Less time spent in Vulgarity 101 and more in Fundamental
Electronics would have been wise. I notice you slammed others who
challenged your theory on the effects of heat on semiconductors.


>
>>>> If the PS is supplying the voltages to the MB and the PS gets too hot, please explain why this
>>>> will not happen.

>
>>> Because the ATX specs say that if the output rails go out of limits, an entirely separate system
>>> is supposed to shut the power supply down.

>
>>>>>> What else could happen?

>
>>>>> The power supply can die when it isnt getting adequate cooling
>>>>> and that can kill stuff powered by it if its badly designed.

>
>


Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2007, 01:33 AM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Ken <user@domain.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote


>>>>>>> What are the symptoms of a power supply with a dying fan?


>>>>>> The power supply fan isnt rotating at the correct speed.


>>>>>>> Will the temperature of the CPU go up?


>>>>>> Not usually unless thats the only fan that moves air from inside
>>>>>> the case to outside.


>>>>>>> Will the voltages on the motherboard start to fluctuate?


>>>>>> Nope.


>>>>> Ever heard of "Thermal runaway?"


>>>> Doesnt happen with power supplys.


>>> Dear Rod Speed,


>> Cheap gutless,


>>> I have good news and bad news.


>> Nope, just puerile silly ****.


>>> First the good news: I commend you for trying to help posters
>>> seeking help,


>> You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
>> irrelevant. What you may or may not 'commend' in spades.


>>> although sometimes I think your choice of words and tone could be
>>> less insulting.


>> You have always been, and always will be, completely and
>> utterly irrelevant. What you may or may not 'think' in spades.


>>> Now the bad news:


>> Nope, just more pig ignorant silly ****.


>>> I suggest you investigate your comment regarding Thermal Runaway
>>> having no effect on power supplies.


>> I order you to take your suggestion and shove it where the sun dont shine.


>> And I didnt say that it has no effect on power supplys anyway.


>>> One of us got cheated in our electronics schooling and experience.


>> Just how many of you are there between those ears ?


>>> If on the other hand you have some literature to support your theory, PLEASE post it


>> YOU made the claim.


>> YOU get to do the posting.


>> THATS how it works.


>>> as I have always been eager to learn about electronics in my 40+
>>> years of practice.


>> Mine is even longer thanks.


>>> I readily admit there is much I do not know, and the field changes
>>> daily. Also, I am sure that NASA, other government agencies, and
>>> even the makers of power supplies would be appreciative to know
>>> that heat is not a problem and they could forgo the cooling fans
>>> and heat shielding they install.


>> Have fun explaining all those PC power supplys that
>> dont exhibit thermal runaway when the fan dies.


>> There might just be a reason why they dont.


>>> Just think, the gold being put on satellites to reflect sunlight
>>> could also be eliminated.


>> Completely and utterly irrelevant to PC power
>> supplys, you pathetic excuse for a ******** artist.


>>> I look forward to your reply.


>> You're always welcome to look anywhere you like.


> Well I guess we know who got cheated in our electronics schooling and experience!!!


Just how many of you are there between those ears, gutless ?

> Less time spent in Vulgarity 101 and more in
> Fundamental Electronics would have been wise.


You should have taken ********ting 101, gutless.

> I notice you slammed others who challenged your theory on the effects of heat on semiconductors.


Only one particular gutless fool that cant manage to
grasp that not all power supplys die when the fan fails.

The ATX specs REQUIRE that there is an independant system that
monitors the output rails and shuts down the supply if they go out of
spec, and that and the power supplys that shut down when the fan
fails is the reason you dont see thermal runaway in PC power supplys.

>>>>> If the PS is supplying the voltages to the MB and the PS gets too hot, please explain why this
>>>>> will not happen.


>>>> Because the ATX specs say that if the output rails go out of limits, an entirely separate
>>>> system is supposed to shut the power supply down.


>>>>>>> What else could happen?


>>>>>> The power supply can die when it isnt getting adequate cooling
>>>>>> and that can kill stuff powered by it if its badly designed.




Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2007, 06:02 AM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 06:25:19 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> DaveW <vorgons@rumba.org> wrote

>
>>>> The PSU WOULD overheat, short out,

>
>>> Not necessarily, I have seen plenty just get noticeably
>>> hot when the fan isnt even rotating anymore.

>
>> Depends on how hot and for how long.

>
>Must be one of those rocket scientist pathetic excuses for a ******** artist.
>
>> Sooner or later it will kill it,

>
>Have fun explaining the ones I have seen that carry on regardless for years,
>because the user didnt even notice and I did when I did some work on it.
>



So did the power supply hop out of the case, waltz over the
the calendar and mark the date it decided to quit using it's
fan, so you'd have some reasonable guess that it had "carry
on regardless for years"?

Hardly, for all we know the fan had just failed and the
system suddenly went down, so they called you.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, that was fun.

Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2007, 06:25 AM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On 13 Mar 2007 09:43:03 -0700, "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:


>I just wanted to make sure it is OK to continue using the computer
>while I decide on a replacement PSU and wait for it to arrive. Since
>my CPU has a fan on it, and I also have 4 case fans, I wasn't sure if
>the PSU fan was that important or not.


Generally speaking, it is not safe to do it. A very big
gamble that is unnecessary since the typical PSU fan failure
only needs a drop of oil in the fan bearing to revive it for
long enough to get you by till the replacement is available.
However, if the fan is what I expect from the brand of PSU,
it is a dual ball bearing Nidec fan which, since it's not
sleeve bearing, won't respond to the drop of oil... but it
makes me wonder what it's doing as ball bearing fans tend to
get whiney then sort of a grating sound right before they
lockup, not contining to run very long once they're really
loud.


>Also, the motherboard
>monitoring software reports the CPU temperature as well as voltages,
>so that's why I asked those questions.
>
>The fan seems to be spinning OK though, even though it is making loud
>noises (sounds like it is struggling to spin).


So it's definitely that fan? If in doubt you might stick a
plastic straw in while the system is off, turn it on and see
if the noise persists while straw blocks the fan.

I'm just wondering because if it's spinning ok, not
drastically low RPM, those dual ball bearing fans tend to
get really whiney before they fail, a quite different sound
than most PSU fans make from running dry and chewing up
their bearing. I wouldn't call the whiney noise loud, just
annoying due to the pitch of it.


Disappointing, as the
>PSU is a Fortron Source (FSP400-60PFN), and I had read a lot of
>positive comments on that brand. And it is only one year old (and
>actually had started to make noises several months ago, but they were
>off and on, and now the noises are pretty much constant).
>


That's surprising, those PSU usually use dual ball bearing
Nidec fans which are about as good as it gets for a PC PSU.
Maybe you're just unlucky enough to have the one in a
million that's bad, I routinely replace crap fans in PSU
WITH the Nidecs and haven't had any fail.

Is it possible the system is just running so cool that the
PSU is trying to throttle the fan down more than (the
designers) could have anticipated? Some fans just don't
throttle down as well as others, unfortunately it's usually
the better ones that do worse at this as they have higher
torque motors and better magnets.

Anyway, it's just a standard fan. So long as the present
fan doesn't die and let the PSU bake, you could save quite
bit of money by just putting a replacement fan in it.
Should be 80x25mm, IIRC the current was probably around
0.20A on those Fortron used, but with a thermal control.
You might try something like this but I don't really if they
used a 0.1" spaced bi-pin connector on that fan or soldered
it to the circuit board, in which case you'd need to splice
the fan to the existing leads or pull whole circuit board
out to fix it. Anyway, this is about the lowest cost fix if
you're in the US as SVC has really cheap US postal rates for
a single small item.
http://www.svc.com/fba08a12m.html

Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2007, 06:28 AM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:56:50 -0700, "JAD" <john
doe@harvesting.addys.for.****.spam> wrote:


>
>you have blown it out with compressed air?
>the fan blades are clean?
>fortron is a good brand I'm a little surprised also. 1 year ...goes to show you...still a
>crap shot when it comes to PSU's
>



Fortron is pretty good but the Nidec fans they often used
were even better, what you'd typically find in server PSU
besides Sanyos. Some Fortrons used NMB fans, also quite
good, and Yate Loons, quite bad fans. It's wierd they chose
opposite extremes like that, though the Yate Loons were
usually in their budget OEM PSUs like those bundled with
cases, though also in the 120mm sizes on recent PSU but I
thought they started using something else because of the
Yate Loons' lifespan problems.

Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:00 PM
void.no.spam.com@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On Mar 14, 2:25 am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
> On 13 Mar 2007 09:43:03 -0700, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>
> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I just wanted to make sure it is OK to continue using the computer
> >while I decide on a replacement PSU and wait for it to arrive. Since
> >my CPU has a fan on it, and I also have 4 case fans, I wasn't sure if
> >the PSU fan was that important or not.

>
> Generally speaking, it is not safe to do it. A very big
> gamble that is unnecessary since the typical PSU fan failure
> only needs a drop of oil in the fan bearing to revive it for
> long enough to get you by till the replacement is available.
> However, if the fan is what I expect from the brand of PSU,
> it is a dual ball bearing Nidec fan which, since it's not
> sleeve bearing, won't respond to the drop of oil... but it
> makes me wonder what it's doing as ball bearing fans tend to
> get whiney then sort of a grating sound right before they
> lockup, not contining to run very long once they're really
> loud.


You are right, it is a Nidec fan.


> So it's definitely that fan?


I suspect it is, because my computer didn't start making these noises
until after I installed that PSU.

But I can turn off some of the case fans to make sure one of them
isn't doing it.

My motherboard monitoring software also reports the CPU fan speed, and
it has been spinning at its normal RPM whenever the noise is being
made.


> If in doubt you might stick a
> plastic straw in while the system is off, turn it on and see
> if the noise persists while straw blocks the fan.


What about sticking something in there while the system in on?
Because now when I turn on my computer it doesn't make any noise. (I
typically leave my computer on all the time, but the last few days
I've turned it off when I'm done using it.) But it might start to
make noise after it's on for a while.


> I'm just wondering because if it's spinning ok, not
> drastically low RPM, those dual ball bearing fans tend to
> get really whiney before they fail, a quite different sound
> than most PSU fans make from running dry and chewing up
> their bearing. I wouldn't call the whiney noise loud, just
> annoying due to the pitch of it.


Is it the case that once they start making a noise, they will continue
to make a noise until they die? Because my noise seems to be off and
on.


> >Disappointing, as the PSU is a Fortron Source (FSP400-60PFN), and I had read a lot of
> >positive comments on that brand. And it is only one year old (and
> >actually had started to make noises several months ago, but they were
> >off and on, and now the noises are pretty much constant).

>
> That's surprising, those PSU usually use dual ball bearing
> Nidec fans which are about as good as it gets for a PC PSU.
> Maybe you're just unlucky enough to have the one in a
> million that's bad, I routinely replace crap fans in PSU
> WITH the Nidecs and haven't had any fail.
>
> Is it possible the system is just running so cool that the
> PSU is trying to throttle the fan down more than (the
> designers) could have anticipated? Some fans just don't
> throttle down as well as others, unfortunately it's usually
> the better ones that do worse at this as they have higher
> torque motors and better magnets.


Hmm, I'll see if it makes any noises the next few days (it's supposed
to get colder).


> Anyway, it's just a standard fan. So long as the present
> fan doesn't die and let the PSU bake, you could save quite
> bit of money by just putting a replacement fan in it.
> Should be 80x25mm, IIRC the current was probably around
> 0.20A on those Fortron used, but with a thermal control.
> You might try something like this but I don't really if they
> used a 0.1" spaced bi-pin connector on that fan or soldered
> it to the circuit board, in which case you'd need to splice
> the fan to the existing leads or pull whole circuit board
> out to fix it. Anyway, this is about the lowest cost fix if
> you're in the US as SVC has really cheap US postal rates for
> a single small item.http://www.svc.com/fba08a12m.html




Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 05:36 PM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On 15 Mar 2007 08:00:34 -0700, "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:


>> So it's definitely that fan?

>
>I suspect it is, because my computer didn't start making these noises
>until after I installed that PSU.


Well... that doesn't necessarily tell US anything though it
might tell you. We would have to wonder if there is some
possiblity a wire is hanging down into a fan blade path or
something like this, particularly when installing a PSU the
wiring is quite subject to routing and securement issues.



>
>But I can turn off some of the case fans to make sure one of them
>isn't doing it.


I'm mainly asking because that fan was likely the highest
quality one in the system, playing odds it is higher quality
than just about any other fan sold in "PC" parts... but that
doesn't make 100% of them last forever of course, somebody
is bound to get one with a defect.


>
>My motherboard monitoring software also reports the CPU fan speed, and
>it has been spinning at its normal RPM whenever the noise is being
>made.
>
>
>> If in doubt you might stick a
>> plastic straw in while the system is off, turn it on and see
>> if the noise persists while straw blocks the fan.

>
>What about sticking something in there while the system in on?


That is best avoided, as it can gouge the blade or jar the
bearing. You "might" be able to do it without harm, but the
default answer is: Blocking a fan from spinning in the
first place is a lot safer for it than trying to stop it,
particularly when you only have access to the back so
pressure can't be applied to the middle of the hub.


>Because now when I turn on my computer it doesn't make any noise. (I
>typically leave my computer on all the time, but the last few days
>I've turned it off when I'm done using it.) But it might start to
>make noise after it's on for a while.


If you haven't checked your fans recently... it's time,
because a failing fan will often just refuse to start
spinning after a cooldown.


>> I'm just wondering because if it's spinning ok, not
>> drastically low RPM, those dual ball bearing fans tend to
>> get really whiney before they fail, a quite different sound
>> than most PSU fans make from running dry and chewing up
>> their bearing. I wouldn't call the whiney noise loud, just
>> annoying due to the pitch of it.

>
>Is it the case that once they start making a noise, they will continue
>to make a noise until they die? Because my noise seems to be off and
>on.


Generally with a ball bearing fan, it begins to get whiney
and then runs for a few more months with this mild (yet
annoying because of the high pitch) noise. Seldom will one
stop making noise once it starts, but sleeve bearing fans
can be the opposite, that they may make more noise when cold
but better when warmed up (till they get really badly worn).
That doesn't make it impossible to stop by any stretch, if
your Nidec is failing then you do have an unusual case
unless it's what I described previously, that the PSU is
trottling it down too far, but I can't hear what the noise
sounds like, how loud it is. You could even have a PSU
defect or failure besides the fan, though it seems far less
likely.





Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2007, 05:17 AM
void.no.spam.com@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

Tonight it has been making a faint noise or no noise at all.

But I just noticed something strange. If I push my computer so that
it is leaning back a bit (so that the front is raised off the floor
and only the back is touching the floor), then the noise becomes
louder. But then when I let go and the computer returns to its normal
position, the noise either gets quieter or disappears.

What do you think that means?


Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2007, 12:05 PM
kony
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan?

On 15 Mar 2007 22:17:57 -0700, "void.no.spam.com@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam.com@gmail.com> wrote:

>Tonight it has been making a faint noise or no noise at all.
>
>But I just noticed something strange. If I push my computer so that
>it is leaning back a bit (so that the front is raised off the floor
>and only the back is touching the floor), then the noise becomes
>louder. But then when I let go and the computer returns to its normal
>position, the noise either gets quieter or disappears.
>
>What do you think that means?



That you need to open the system up and get a positive
confirmation of exactly where this noise is coming from.

Reply With Quote
Reply


« Pentium v. Celeron or Athlon v. Sempron? | Sata Hard Disk »
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re: What are the consequences of using a power supply with dying fan? philo alt.comp.hardware 0 03-12-2007 08:22 PM
Colours of wires from old Mitsubishi power supply James Midolo alt.comp.hardware 2 02-15-2007 10:51 PM
Dell Dimension 5000 power supply - replacemant. timisbrill@aol.com alt.comp.hardware 12 08-26-2006 12:40 AM
New ATX Power Supply on old Motherboard jagemail@gmail.com alt.comp.hardware 1 10-10-2005 10:18 PM
New ATX Power Supply on old Motherboard jagemail@gmail.com alt.comp.hardware 14 10-10-2005 10:14 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:27 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45