Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
"Burt" <nospam@pacbell.net> wrote:
>"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
>news:muhpm3tjfbdelfm1cek9o4t3o90abek9pf@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:13:39 -0600, Tony
>> <tonythebengaltiger@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I am not into "Marketing drivel" I am an engineer and am into first hand
>>>experience and my comments are based on exactly that, my own experience.
>>
>> Yes, that's why your comment was inaccurate, because it is
>> based on a subjective experience of whether Vista was
>> suiting YOUR needs.
>>
>(clipped a very long, cynical attack on Tony - an honest, valued contributer
>to this NG)
>
>C'mon, Kony - If you've been on this NG for more than ten minutes you'd
>recognize Tony as a very straightforward guy who was very clear that this
>was his experience. It was not a MS promotion. No need to attack - why
>not contribute positively from YOUR own experience instead of tearing down a
>participant's honest post. The world has enough misanthropes. Lighten up.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:02:01 -0800, "Burt"
<nospam@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
>news:muhpm3tjfbdelfm1cek9o4t3o90abek9pf@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:13:39 -0600, Tony
>> <tonythebengaltiger@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I am not into "Marketing drivel" I am an engineer and am into first hand
>>>experience and my comments are based on exactly that, my own experience.
>>
>> Yes, that's why your comment was inaccurate, because it is
>> based on a subjective experience of whether Vista was
>> suiting YOUR needs.
>>
>(clipped a very long, cynical attack on Tony - an honest, valued contributer
>to this NG)
>
>C'mon, Kony - If you've been on this NG for more than ten minutes you'd
>recognize Tony as a very straightforward guy who was very clear that this
>was his experience. It was not a MS promotion. No need to attack - why
>not contribute positively from YOUR own experience instead of tearing down a
>participant's honest post. The world has enough misanthropes. Lighten up.
>
I'm sorry but even if you're a member of his fan club, my
opinion is not subject to your loyalty.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:55:58 -0600, Tony
<tonythebengaltiger@gmail.com> wrote:
>Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt to clarify
>what I said.
>The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and provided some
>links as evidence. These links are outdated and now largely irrelevant.
No, they aren't largely irrelevant. You can say it 100
times and it won't be more true than the first. Did you
actually read the links? Quite a lot of the information was
not just about some minor bug that's been patched.
>I said that I have many customers who are happy with Vista so it is NOT just my
>personal experience, I expressed an opinion based on real world experience
>(both mine and my customers). My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective, they
>are based on objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
>actually running a business, which my customers all do).
The number of people discontent with Vista is staggering.
Online polls bear this out. Perhaps you live in an
alternate reality where your customers aren't normal, or
perhaps you simply don't hear about their problems. Lots of
people don't take up problems with the seller of the system,
and the truth is all the bugs you are claiming are ok and
being fixed, are indeed bugs they are subject to.
By claiming it's getting better and will be better still
after the service pack, you are simultaneously conceding it
needs work - which is not the state an OS should be in for
serious use.
>For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over 100, none have
>had to consider going back to their previous OS.
"Had to consider" is a very vague concept. The factors
effecting viability of the OS are numerous. It may not be
the worst OS ever written, but claiming they didn't "have"
to use something else is beside the point that they may have
been better off using something else, and may actually have
problems or did have them, and we do know that these service
packs and patches aren't on a whim - they are indeed to
correct problems.
So basically you are ignoring your customers have problems
with the OS and saying it's ok if it's problematic because
another OS was problematic - but that other OS ISN'T so
problematic now.
It is arbitrary to make an excuse that in some point in the
past of computer history, something wasn't any worse, when
the relevant comparison is what the alternatives are right
now.
>I have many customers who have
>no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
>migrate until there is a reason to do so.
>I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
>made that assumption);
Self-serving doesn't have to mean making a buck, it can be
about ego and it certainly seems it is - because you so
easily dismiss that things are supposed to get better after
a service pack. How about waiting until things are hinging
on packs to fix things you thought were significant enough
to mention a service pack? Obviously you concede there are
problems but decide that's ok for others to deal with
because the service pack will *probably* fix something or
other - but historically, certainly not all problems and
probably new problems will arise from the service pack.
>in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
>Microsoft product or service. My company is highly specialised and we stick to
>our core business, any and all questions regarding which OS or applications or
>internal hardware to use are referred to the customer's IT service provider (we
>never operate as an IT business). The only involvement we have with OS' is
>providing advice as to whether a particular printer or imaging device will work
>with a particular OS and this can be Windows, Linux, MAC and in rare
>circumstances some specialised industrial OS'.
>I answered the original comment because it was clearly biased, accusing me of
>bias because I attempted to provide some balance is laughable.
>Have a safe and happy Christmas.
>Tony
It's not balance to brush aside concerns and then backstep
to say upcoming patches somehow justify using a product that
doesn't yet have these patches applied. Can't have it both
ways, your own argument fouled you up.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
TJ wrote:
>
.... snip ...
>
> Burt, take note - This thread is cross-posted to 3 newsgroups. Kony
> could well be a regular of one other than comp.periphs.printers.
>
> <SIGH.> I should learn not to post anything about Linux anywhere but a
> Linux group if I don't want to start a flame war. Wasn't my intention.
Why? If a Linux installation will solve a problem, it is a
suitable answer. It is certainly cheaper and more maintainable
than anything from Microsoft.
--
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy New Year
Joyeux Noel, Bonne Annee.
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
Tony wrote:
>
> Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt
> to clarify what I said.
>
> The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and
> provided some links as evidence. These links are outdated and now
> largely irrelevant. I said that I have many customers who are happy
> with Vista so it is NOT just my personal experience, I expressed an
> opinion based on real world experience (both mine and my customers).
> My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective, they are based on
> objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
> actually running a business, which my customers all do).
>
> For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over
> 100, none have had to consider going back to their previous OS. I
> have many customers who have no plans to migrate to Vista and that
> is exactly what I would expect, why migrate until there is a reason
> to do so.
....
Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material. See the following links:
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
You should of course continue to post which ever way you prefer. I will do the
same.
I have no difficulty understanding posts that follow any of the conventions
used in Usenet, including top posting, even if they are mixed!
I agree that irrelevant material should be snipped and I have done that for
this reply.
Tony
CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
>with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
>irrelevant material.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
You keep changing your predications. First of all I am mysteriously making a
buck out of Vista and when I explain that your assumption was wrong I
apparently have another agenda (duh).
It's a fairly good trick to keep changing the ground rules in Usenet but not at
all hard for anybody with an iota of intelligence to see through.
Your posts are full of obfuscation and no longer worth reading. Hang on to one
word - Balance - something that is lacking in your "contribution" to this
thread.
End of thread as far as I'm concerned.
Tony (not posted anonymously)
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:55:58 -0600, Tony
><tonythebengaltiger@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt to clarify
>>what I said.
>>The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and provided
>>some
>>links as evidence. These links are outdated and now largely irrelevant.
>
>No, they aren't largely irrelevant. You can say it 100
>times and it won't be more true than the first. Did you
>actually read the links? Quite a lot of the information was
>not just about some minor bug that's been patched.
>
>
>
>>I said that I have many customers who are happy with Vista so it is NOT just
>>my
>>personal experience, I expressed an opinion based on real world experience
>>(both mine and my customers). My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective, they
>>are based on objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
>>actually running a business, which my customers all do).
>
>
>The number of people discontent with Vista is staggering.
>Online polls bear this out. Perhaps you live in an
>alternate reality where your customers aren't normal, or
>perhaps you simply don't hear about their problems. Lots of
>people don't take up problems with the seller of the system,
>and the truth is all the bugs you are claiming are ok and
>being fixed, are indeed bugs they are subject to.
>
>By claiming it's getting better and will be better still
>after the service pack, you are simultaneously conceding it
>needs work - which is not the state an OS should be in for
>serious use.
>
>
>
>>For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over 100, none
>>have
>>had to consider going back to their previous OS.
>
>"Had to consider" is a very vague concept. The factors
>effecting viability of the OS are numerous. It may not be
>the worst OS ever written, but claiming they didn't "have"
>to use something else is beside the point that they may have
>been better off using something else, and may actually have
>problems or did have them, and we do know that these service
>packs and patches aren't on a whim - they are indeed to
>correct problems.
>
>So basically you are ignoring your customers have problems
>with the OS and saying it's ok if it's problematic because
>another OS was problematic - but that other OS ISN'T so
>problematic now.
>
>It is arbitrary to make an excuse that in some point in the
>past of computer history, something wasn't any worse, when
>the relevant comparison is what the alternatives are right
>now.
>
>
>>I have many customers who have
>>no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
>>migrate until there is a reason to do so.
>>I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
>>made that assumption);
>
>Self-serving doesn't have to mean making a buck, it can be
>about ego and it certainly seems it is - because you so
>easily dismiss that things are supposed to get better after
>a service pack. How about waiting until things are hinging
>on packs to fix things you thought were significant enough
>to mention a service pack? Obviously you concede there are
>problems but decide that's ok for others to deal with
>because the service pack will *probably* fix something or
>other - but historically, certainly not all problems and
>probably new problems will arise from the service pack.
>
>
>
>>in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
>>Microsoft product or service. My company is highly specialised and we stick
>>to
>>our core business, any and all questions regarding which OS or applications
>>or
>>internal hardware to use are referred to the customer's IT service provider
>>(we
>>never operate as an IT business). The only involvement we have with OS' is
>>providing advice as to whether a particular printer or imaging device will
>>work
>>with a particular OS and this can be Windows, Linux, MAC and in rare
>>circumstances some specialised industrial OS'.
>>I answered the original comment because it was clearly biased, accusing me of
>>bias because I attempted to provide some balance is laughable.
>>Have a safe and happy Christmas.
>>Tony
>
>It's not balance to brush aside concerns and then backstep
>to say upcoming patches somehow justify using a product that
>doesn't yet have these patches applied. Can't have it both
>ways, your own argument fouled you up.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:9hbrm3t51vilpoc8uaq6pd87credpailgr@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:55:58 -0600, Tony
> <tonythebengaltiger@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt to
>>clarify
>>what I said.
>>The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and provided
>>some
>>links as evidence. These links are outdated and now largely irrelevant.
>
> No, they aren't largely irrelevant. You can say it 100
> times and it won't be more true than the first. Did you
> actually read the links? Quite a lot of the information was
> not just about some minor bug that's been patched.
>
>
>
>>I said that I have many customers who are happy with Vista so it is NOT
>>just my
>>personal experience, I expressed an opinion based on real world experience
>>(both mine and my customers). My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective,
>>they
>>are based on objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
>>actually running a business, which my customers all do).
>
>
> The number of people discontent with Vista is staggering.
> Online polls bear this out. Perhaps you live in an
> alternate reality where your customers aren't normal, or
> perhaps you simply don't hear about their problems. Lots of
> people don't take up problems with the seller of the system,
> and the truth is all the bugs you are claiming are ok and
> being fixed, are indeed bugs they are subject to.
>
> By claiming it's getting better and will be better still
> after the service pack, you are simultaneously conceding it
> needs work - which is not the state an OS should be in for
> serious use.
>
>
>
>>For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over 100, none
>>have
>>had to consider going back to their previous OS.
>
> "Had to consider" is a very vague concept. The factors
> effecting viability of the OS are numerous. It may not be
> the worst OS ever written, but claiming they didn't "have"
> to use something else is beside the point that they may have
> been better off using something else, and may actually have
> problems or did have them, and we do know that these service
> packs and patches aren't on a whim - they are indeed to
> correct problems.
>
> So basically you are ignoring your customers have problems
> with the OS and saying it's ok if it's problematic because
> another OS was problematic - but that other OS ISN'T so
> problematic now.
>
> It is arbitrary to make an excuse that in some point in the
> past of computer history, something wasn't any worse, when
> the relevant comparison is what the alternatives are right
> now.
>
>
>>I have many customers who have
>>no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
>>migrate until there is a reason to do so.
>>I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity
>>you
>>made that assumption);
>
> Self-serving doesn't have to mean making a buck, it can be
> about ego and it certainly seems it is - because you so
> easily dismiss that things are supposed to get better after
> a service pack. How about waiting until things are hinging
> on packs to fix things you thought were significant enough
> to mention a service pack? Obviously you concede there are
> problems but decide that's ok for others to deal with
> because the service pack will *probably* fix something or
> other - but historically, certainly not all problems and
> probably new problems will arise from the service pack.
>
>
>
>>in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
>>Microsoft product or service. My company is highly specialised and we
>>stick to
>>our core business, any and all questions regarding which OS or
>>applications or
>>internal hardware to use are referred to the customer's IT service
>>provider (we
>>never operate as an IT business). The only involvement we have with OS' is
>>providing advice as to whether a particular printer or imaging device will
>>work
>>with a particular OS and this can be Windows, Linux, MAC and in rare
>>circumstances some specialised industrial OS'.
>>I answered the original comment because it was clearly biased, accusing me
>>of
>>bias because I attempted to provide some balance is laughable.
>>Have a safe and happy Christmas.
>>Tony
>
> It's not balance to brush aside concerns and then backstep
> to say upcoming patches somehow justify using a product that
> doesn't yet have these patches applied. Can't have it both
> ways, your own argument fouled you up.
Ahhhh...the attack dog strikes again. Pay attention, Measekite - you can
learn from this guy. Better sentence structure and vocabulary, but a
similar snarl.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
CBF - on the other hand, I was admonished for bottom posting a question on
the Excel NG. Can't win with some people!
"CBFalconer" <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:476DB935.8DD29BAA@yahoo.com...
> Tony wrote:
>>
>> Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt
>> to clarify what I said.
>>
>> The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and
>> provided some links as evidence. These links are outdated and now
>> largely irrelevant. I said that I have many customers who are happy
>> with Vista so it is NOT just my personal experience, I expressed an
>> opinion based on real world experience (both mine and my customers).
>> My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective, they are based on
>> objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
>> actually running a business, which my customers all do).
>>
>> For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over
>> 100, none have had to consider going back to their previous OS. I
>> have many customers who have no plans to migrate to Vista and that
>> is exactly what I would expect, why migrate until there is a reason
>> to do so.
> ...
>
> Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
> with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
> irrelevant material. See the following links:
>
> --
> <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
> <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
> <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
> <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> (taming google)
> <http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/> (newusers)
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>
>>>> TJ - I also had to dump a Visioneer scanner when I updated to a new
>>>> Windows version. Visioneer didn't update their drivers. The scanner
>>>> wasn't very old. Last Visioneer scanner to grace my desk. In fairness,
>>>> technology and associated software for scanners had advanced to the
>>>> point where it was actually a blessing after the fact.
>>>
>>> Which model? I have 5, maybe 7-8 year old lower-end
>>> Visioneers that still worked on XP. I'd have replaced them
>>> long ago but they keep running so... one of them will be
>>> replaced if I ever need to use it to scan more than text as
>>> it's CCFL is starting to dim some so it is mostly suited for
>>> text scanning now.
>> In my case, the Visioneer in question is the OneTouch 7600 USB. I bought
>> it from Office Max something like 7 years ago for $20 after rebate. The
>> oddball chipset it uses(What WAS that chipset called? E3? Something like
>> that.) was also used by at least two other scanner brand names, though I
>> expect they were probably all made by the same manufacturer. I've never
>> used Windows XP, so I don't know if they issued a driver for it or not. I
>> used it with Windows 98SE. It worked great then and still works now, those
>> infrequent times when I fire up Windows and use it.
>>
> Mine was the first "one-touch" model. It used a parallel cable that also
> connected a printer. All pre-USB stuff.
Ohmygod! I've been ripped off! I paid $39.95 at McFrugals.
My Visioneer scanner is a "Colorado Primascan 2400P." It's got a regular
Visioneer name, too, and probably other "brands." I put "brands" in
quotes because it's been a great long time since Memorex was a real
company. They buy stuff and sell stuff. Sometimes, like AT&T, GE
(Thomson), Timex, IBM, etc., they license other companies to use their
name. IBM chewing gum? You heard about it here, first, folks.
When you see products from these companies in unexpected places, read
the fine print on the box. Aha!
My scanner connects to the computer via a printer cable. At the same
time, virtually identical models were being sold with USB interfaces,
which I should have bought -- but didn't know.
No matter, Visioneer simply claims that the thing is, OS-specific,
therefore obsolete, and so they no longer have to support it with
updated drivers: which is arrogant Visioneer bullshit.
Visioneer is one of those maddening companies who put a telephone moat
around their business to ensure that customers don't disturb them.
You can imagine my surprise when I just connected the scanner to my new
PC, running XP-Pro SP2, and it worked just fine. My only problem is that
something inside has been outgassing, and there's a resulting coating on
the inside of the glass. This has reduced the contrast. When I get
brave, it'll go onto my workbench and perhaps I'll be able to clean the
glass. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire thing
were held together with glue. A landfill princess.
Bubba
If you're in the West and you need a Bubba, here I am.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
Tony wrote:
I have many customers who have
> no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
> migrate until there is a reason to do so.
> I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
> made that assumption); in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
> Microsoft product or service.
I think that Kony is a victim of his own tunnel vision. Well, I've had
my moments, too. No way, though, will I buy Vista right now. I'm a home
user, which is an important fact to bear in mind. I don't think that
Vista is ready for me. Yet.
Damned if I have any interest in bailing from XP; after all, it's not
been so long since MS worked out the significant bugs. Why jump into
buggy frying pan now?
My work demands that I maintain OS and software compatibility with my
clients. As they move to Vista, which they certainly will, I will have
to move with them. Regardless of whether I hate Microsoft or not (I do),
this will be my reality as it has been a few times earlier. Taking an
ostrich stance is not wise, in my case.
A friend does computer support for a major California city government.
Are they using Vista? No way. Are they studying Vista? You bet!
Quite intensely, in fact. It's simple: sooner or later, they're going to
change to Vista; they'll be forced to as their software providers
abandon XP into the back room of its "legacy" status. We've been there,
haven't we. Nobody in their data processing wants to have to face the
situation when, suddenly, all the firefighters' paychecks won't print!
Do I like the way Microsoft does business? What do you think? The only
way that they can maintain profitability is to force all their customers
to "upgrade." Killing competition helps them, too, and paying off
politicians to turn a blind eye toward restraint-of-trade and monopoly
behavior -- well, that's a reality, too.
We don't have much choice in this: it is. Will our hardware be
compatible? Don't count on it. That's life, too.
Me? As soon as I can do it without pain in my life, I'm going to convert
to an open-source, no bullshit OS. But that's not in my cards for the
present.
Meanwhile, Kony, please get off your granite plinth and get a life:
Tony's been a fine, selfless contributor to this NG; one of the few who
have considerable experience wherein of what he speaks. I'm glad to have
his input and guidance.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
Richard
I couldn't agree with you more. If there is no reason to upgrade to Vista then
why do so? That however doesn't mean that Vista is bad, merely a fledgling.
I wasn't suggesting that people upgrade without good reason, only trying to
bring a bit of balance to a completely unbalanced thread. Not sure I should
have bothered however, it seems to me that once some people have established a
view they are completely immovable; hardly a path to enlightenment!
Tony
Richard Steinfeld <rgsteinBUTREMOVETHIS@sonicANDTHISTOO.net> wrote:
>Tony wrote:
> I have many customers who have
>> no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
>> migrate until there is a reason to do so.
>
>> I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
>> made that assumption); in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
>> Microsoft product or service.
>
>I think that Kony is a victim of his own tunnel vision. Well, I've had
>my moments, too. No way, though, will I buy Vista right now. I'm a home
>user, which is an important fact to bear in mind. I don't think that
>Vista is ready for me. Yet.
>
>Damned if I have any interest in bailing from XP; after all, it's not
>been so long since MS worked out the significant bugs. Why jump into
>buggy frying pan now?
>
>My work demands that I maintain OS and software compatibility with my
>clients. As they move to Vista, which they certainly will, I will have
>to move with them. Regardless of whether I hate Microsoft or not (I do),
>this will be my reality as it has been a few times earlier. Taking an
>ostrich stance is not wise, in my case.
>
>A friend does computer support for a major California city government.
>Are they using Vista? No way. Are they studying Vista? You bet!
>Quite intensely, in fact. It's simple: sooner or later, they're going to
>change to Vista; they'll be forced to as their software providers
>abandon XP into the back room of its "legacy" status. We've been there,
>haven't we. Nobody in their data processing wants to have to face the
>situation when, suddenly, all the firefighters' paychecks won't print!
>
>Do I like the way Microsoft does business? What do you think? The only
>way that they can maintain profitability is to force all their customers
>to "upgrade." Killing competition helps them, too, and paying off
>politicians to turn a blind eye toward restraint-of-trade and monopoly
>behavior -- well, that's a reality, too.
>
>We don't have much choice in this: it is. Will our hardware be
>compatible? Don't count on it. That's life, too.
>
>Me? As soon as I can do it without pain in my life, I'm going to convert
>to an open-source, no bullshit OS. But that's not in my cards for the
>present.
>
>Meanwhile, Kony, please get off your granite plinth and get a life:
>Tony's been a fine, selfless contributor to this NG; one of the few who
>have considerable experience wherein of what he speaks. I'm glad to have
>his input and guidance.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:56:06 -0800, Richard Steinfeld
<rgsteinBUTREMOVETHIS@sonicANDTHISTOO.net> wrote:
>Tony wrote:
> I have many customers who have
>> no plans to migrate to Vista and that is exactly what I would expect, why
>> migrate until there is a reason to do so.
>
>> I don't make a buck out of Vista so none of this is self serving (a pity you
>> made that assumption); in fact I do not and never have marketed or sold any
>> Microsoft product or service.
>
>I think that Kony is a victim of his own tunnel vision.
Am I?
There wasn't such a bachlash from consumers that OEMs
continued to offer Win9x when XP was released.
There weren't multiple websites claiming (the OS du jour)
had won worst product of the year when XP, ME, 98, 95, 3.1,
DOS, (take your pick), came out.
The truth is , never in the history of mankind have so many
people (revolted, I suppose a MS zealot would use this
term?) chose to avoid the next version of the software/OS
they were running.
>Well, I've had
>my moments, too. No way, though, will I buy Vista right now. I'm a home
>user, which is an important fact to bear in mind. I don't think that
>Vista is ready for me. Yet.
I don't think home user is relevant, at least not as you
imply, in a context. Businesses are rather bullish about OS
upgrade, it is startling how many still run Win98 or 2K. It
would not surprise me at all if more businesses still run
Win2k and '98, than Vista.
>
>Damned if I have any interest in bailing from XP; after all, it's not
>been so long since MS worked out the significant bugs. Why jump into
>buggy frying pan now?
There is a good logic in this, let others be the beta
testers, but even moreso, the EULA and potential to lose
useability of the system keeps escalating.
>
>My work demands that I maintain OS and software compatibility with my
>clients. As they move to Vista, which they certainly will, I will have
>to move with them. Regardless of whether I hate Microsoft or not (I do),
>this will be my reality as it has been a few times earlier. Taking an
>ostrich stance is not wise, in my case.
Agreed, an ostrich stance is not of benefit. At the same
time, benefit vs detriment must be weighed. If someone
expresses a clear need for Vista features, that being more
important to them subjectively, it is the better OS for
their use. That is unfortunately not what we're discussing
here, rather blanket statements about needs not mattering,
we should instead just wait for our needs to be met because
someday the sky will be rosey and all will be OK. That idea
is counter to productivity, using what already works without
making concessions.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:32:08 -0600, Tony
<tonythebengaltiger@gmail.com> wrote:
>Richard
>I couldn't agree with you more. If there is no reason to upgrade to Vista then
>why do so? That however doesn't mean that Vista is bad, merely a fledgling.
>I wasn't suggesting that people upgrade without good reason, only trying to
>bring a bit of balance to a completely unbalanced thread. Not sure I should
>have bothered however, it seems to me that once some people have established a
>view they are completely immovable; hardly a path to enlightenment!
>Tony
>
First of all, if you can't respecty usenet conventions of
not top-posting, you shouldn't be allowed on usenet at all.
Seriously, your ISP TOS have been violated most likely, you
seem like the type of person who has no regard for anything
except what benefits himself.
Yes, Vista is fledgling. It may someday be an acceptible
alternative, but promoting it before that day has come is
deceiving at best, and senseless at worse.
Yes balance is a good idea, but balance does not include
promotion including an idea that we should "wait and see"
what might be better from the next generation of patches.
It is ridiculous that you pretend to claim a concept of
enlightenment. You hide behind bullshit deception.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
Tony wrote:
> Richard
> I couldn't agree with you more. If there is no reason to upgrade to Vista then
> why do so? That however doesn't mean that Vista is bad, merely a fledgling.
> I wasn't suggesting that people upgrade without good reason, only trying to
> bring a bit of balance to a completely unbalanced thread. Not sure I should
> have bothered however, it seems to me that once some people have established a
> view they are completely immovable; hardly a path to enlightenment!
> Tony
>
I think Microsoft will settle the whole question in a few years, when
they withdraw support from XP. Consider for a moment that Microsoft
recently has not just withdrawn their support for Windows versions
earlier than 2000, they've forced other companies (like HP) to do so,
too. Now, remember that XP and other Microsoft products of the same and
later vintages have to phone home to Redmond for permission to be used
by the consumer. Is it too much to imagine that Microsoft has embedded
some code that will render those products inoperable after Microsoft
withdraws support?
Not to me, it isn't. One of the big reasons I will continue to use
Linux. *I'm* in charge of my computer, not Microsoft. (And if that
starts another flame war, so be it.)
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
TJ wrote:
> Not to me, it isn't. One of the big reasons I will continue to use
> Linux. *I'm* in charge of my computer, not Microsoft. (And if that
> starts another flame war, so be it.)
I've used Linux for years - since the Slackware 1.2 kernel version. It
would be the only OS I use, except that I need Photoshop. The Gimp's
pretty good, but still not up to PS - beside it doesn't do colour
management AFAIK.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
TJ wrote:
> Burt wrote:
>> "kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:muhpm3tjfbdelfm1cek9o4t3o90abek9pf@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:13:39 -0600, Tony
>>> <tonythebengaltiger@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am not into "Marketing drivel" I am an engineer and am into first
>>>> hand
>>>> experience and my comments are based on exactly that, my own
>>>> experience.
>>> Yes, that's why your comment was inaccurate, because it is
>>> based on a subjective experience of whether Vista was
>>> suiting YOUR needs.
>>>
>> (clipped a very long, cynical attack on Tony - an honest, valued
>> contributer to this NG)
>>
>> C'mon, Kony - If you've been on this NG for more than ten minutes
>> you'd recognize Tony as a very straightforward guy who was very clear
>> that this was his experience. It was not a MS promotion. No need
>> to attack - why not contribute positively from YOUR own experience
>> instead of tearing down a participant's honest post. The world has
>> enough misanthropes. Lighten up.
>>
>>
> Burt, take note - This thread is cross-posted to 3 newsgroups. Kony
> could well be a regular of one other than comp.periphs.printers.
>
> <SIGH.> I should learn not to post anything about Linux anywhere but a
> Linux group if I don't want to start a flame war. Wasn't my intention.
>
> TJ
If the other idiots do not like what is said thats TFB
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
TJ wrote:
> Tony wrote:
>> Richard
>> I couldn't agree with you more. If there is no reason to upgrade to
>> Vista then why do so? That however doesn't mean that Vista is bad,
>> merely a fledgling.
>> I wasn't suggesting that people upgrade without good reason, only
>> trying to bring a bit of balance to a completely unbalanced thread.
>> Not sure I should have bothered however, it seems to me that once
>> some people have established a view they are completely immovable;
>> hardly a path to enlightenment!
>> Tony
> I think Microsoft will settle the whole question in a few years, when
> they withdraw support from XP. Consider for a moment that Microsoft
> recently has not just withdrawn their support for Windows versions
> earlier than 2000, they've forced other companies (like HP) to do so,
> too. Now, remember that XP and other Microsoft products of the same
> and later vintages have to phone home to Redmond for permission to be
> used by the consumer. Is it too much to imagine that Microsoft has
> embedded some code that will render those products inoperable after
> Microsoft withdraws support?
>
> Not to me, it isn't. One of the big reasons I will continue to use
> Linux. *I'm* in charge of my computer, not Microsoft. (And if that
> starts another flame war, so be it.)
>
> TJ
Oh Yeah Who Cares
I do not think there are enough idiots out there who are in love with
Microsoft Windows even though they need to use it for various reasons.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
Jim Ford wrote:
> TJ wrote:
>
>> Not to me, it isn't. One of the big reasons I will continue to use
>> Linux. *I'm* in charge of my computer, not Microsoft. (And if that
>> starts another flame war, so be it.)
>
> I've used Linux for years - since the Slackware 1.2 kernel version. It
> would be the only OS I use, except that I need Photoshop. The Gimp's
> pretty good, but still not up to PS - beside it doesn't do colour
> management AFAIK.
>
> Jim Ford
Now I understand. He sez colour when it is really color. He probably
also sez favourites too. Constipation know no boundary.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
Duff wrote:
>
>
>> I do not think there are enough idiots out there who are in love with
>> Microsoft Windows even though they need to use it for various reasons.
>
> Yeah, like only 92 percent of the market is totally sold with
> Microsoft. And the number is growing daily.
>
>
>
>
>
>
You want to use Microsoft products because they're the best for you?
Fine, go ahead. But don't do it because everybody else is doing it. That
argument didn't work when you were a kid, did it?
If 92% of all lemmings follow others over a cliff, it is the 8% that
don't that survive to continue the species.
"Market share" is a function of marketing prowess, and not necessarily
the quality of the product.
Sometimes, breaking away from the masses is the best thing to do.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
TJ <TJ@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Tony wrote:
>> Richard
>> I couldn't agree with you more. If there is no reason to upgrade to Vista
>>then
>> why do so? That however doesn't mean that Vista is bad, merely a fledgling.
>> I wasn't suggesting that people upgrade without good reason, only trying to
>> bring a bit of balance to a completely unbalanced thread. Not sure I should
>> have bothered however, it seems to me that once some people have established
>>a
>> view they are completely immovable; hardly a path to enlightenment!
>> Tony
>>
>I think Microsoft will settle the whole question in a few years, when
>they withdraw support from XP. Consider for a moment that Microsoft
>recently has not just withdrawn their support for Windows versions
>earlier than 2000, they've forced other companies (like HP) to do so,
>too. Now, remember that XP and other Microsoft products of the same and
>later vintages have to phone home to Redmond for permission to be used
>by the consumer. Is it too much to imagine that Microsoft has embedded
>some code that will render those products inoperable after Microsoft
>withdraws support?
>
>Not to me, it isn't. One of the big reasons I will continue to use
>Linux. *I'm* in charge of my computer, not Microsoft. (And if that
>starts another flame war, so be it.)
>
>TJ
TJ
I have no in depth experience of Linux but have a few small customers and one
acquaintance who use it and who are very content. The only complaint I have
heard from them is the limited availability of some applications. If Linux
suits your needs then that is better than good since you are saving money and
as you say you are in charge.
I am not a MS bigot, the nature of my business demands that I deal mainly with
MS OS' and there is nothing I can do about that. Enjoy the holidays.
Bottom posted because it's a weekend ;-)
Tony
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
TJ wrote:
> I think Microsoft will settle the whole question in a few years, when
> they withdraw support from XP. Consider for a moment that Microsoft
> recently has not just withdrawn their support for Windows versions
> earlier than 2000, they've forced other companies (like HP) to do so,
> too. Now, remember that XP and other Microsoft products of the same and
> later vintages have to phone home to Redmond for permission to be used
> by the consumer. Is it too much to imagine that Microsoft has embedded
> some code that will render those products inoperable after Microsoft
> withdraws support?
Thanks for the memory jog, TJ. Your point has been nagging in the back
of my mind ever since I switched to XP -- the knowledge that at any
point, Microsoft can destroy my operating system. They have the ability
to hold all their customers for ransome: let's say, take us up on our
special upgrade deal by November 27th, or you're dead in the water.
MS appears to play an arrogant, but delicate game; how much can they
abuse their customers before they'll walk? So, let's say that they go to
far (they have a habit of doing this) -- well, they'll kiss and make up
by extending support for a couple more years. Big deal. We know the MO.
But what's notable is that at no time before XP has the company embedded
a poison pill in their own software. What comes buried in those patches
that we don't know about?
Am I paranoid? Yes. Do I have reason to be paranoid? Yes.
Back in the days of DOS, I controlled my own computer. I could write
batchfiles for myself. I could change settings. That was then: yore.
Linux offers hope. Microsoft does not. But for the time being, I've got
to continue to play the game.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
Burt wrote: ** and top-posted - fixed **
> "CBFalconer" <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> Tony wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure I want to continue this thread but here is a last attempt
>>> to clarify what I said.
>>>
>>> The original post to which I replied said that Vista was crap and
>>> provided some links as evidence. These links are outdated and now
>>> largely irrelevant. I said that I have many customers who are happy
>>> with Vista so it is NOT just my personal experience, I expressed an
>>> opinion based on real world experience (both mine and my customers).
>>> My opinions are absolutely NOT subjective, they are based on
>>> objective observations (there is nothing more objective than
>>> actually running a business, which my customers all do).
>>>
>>> For many, Vista works. I speak of many installations, well over
>>> 100, none have had to consider going back to their previous OS. I
>>> have many customers who have no plans to migrate to Vista and that
>>> is exactly what I would expect, why migrate until there is a reason
>>> to do so.
>> ...
>>
>> Please do not top-post. Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
>> with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
>> irrelevant material. See the following links:
>>
>> --
>> <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
>> <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
>> <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
>> <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/> (taming google)
>> <http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/> (newusers)
>
> CBF - on the other hand, I was admonished for bottom posting a
> question on the Excel NG. Can't win with some people!
I have deliberately left the URL references. Please read them for
background. In addition below are some references to areas with
various rfcs on line. These are the things that set standards for
email and Usenet. The 'Excel' ng is obviously something set up by
Microsoft, who attempt to corrupt all standards.
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
kony wrote:
> Tony wrote:
>
.... snip ...
>> Not sure I should have bothered however, it seems to me that once
>> some people have established a view they are completely immovable;
?? hardly a path to enlightenment!
>
> First of all, if you can't respecty usenet conventions of
> not top-posting, you shouldn't be allowed on usenet at all.
Tony appears to be a reasonable person, and doesn't deserve this
sort of treatment. I suspect he will respond quite nicely to
convincing arguments.
--
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy New Year
Joyeux Noel, Bonne Annee.
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic
TJ wrote:
> Duff wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I do not think there are enough idiots out there who are in love
>>> with Microsoft Windows even though they need to use it for various
>>> reasons.
>>
>> Yeah, like only 92 percent of the market is totally sold with
>> Microsoft. And the number is growing daily.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> You want to use Microsoft products because they're the best for you?
> Fine, go ahead. But don't do it because everybody else is doing it.
> That argument didn't work when you were a kid, did it?
>
> If 92% of all lemmings follow others over a cliff, it is the 8% that
> don't that survive to continue the species.
ha ha ha
>
> "Market share" is a function of marketing prowess, and not necessarily
> the quality of the product.
Oh Yeah the MS babies just like to sit on their Duff. ah ha ha ha
>
> Sometimes, breaking away from the masses is the best thing to do.
It was for me. For business I have to use Windows but for personal use
I did have to put up with some driver difficulties and find replacements
form some lousy Windows software that did do the job but I do not get
the crash of the day and have to worry about a deluge of viruses.
>
> TJ
>
Re: What inkjet printer prints the best text? Off Topic 