Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
using the net. Would this affect the way windows runs?
As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
supply
Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
>
>Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
>which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
>using the net. Would this affect the way windows runs?
No, there should be no difference in performance with
respect to a 55C temp.
>As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
>even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
>MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
A complete halting of everything but no crash? If so, that
seems most like a bad drive cable or failing hard drive.
>
>Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
>motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
>supply
If it's a generic PSU, your drive might be struggling...
even if it's a PSU problem I'd still suspect it being
manifested in drive problems.
Either that, or your might have some
malware/virus/spyware/etc on the system - scan it
extensively.
>
>Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
>my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
Sparkle 350W is about the least I"d recommend, and good
value. If CPU never gets above 55C there is no pressing
need to replace the heatsink/fan just yet- though if it's at
55C under only a light load, it might get even hotter under
full load, and in that situation it could be necessary to
replace the heatsink, but not to resolve the current issue
of it misperforming at only 55C.
On most AMD processors, if it heats up, it fries and will not work for long.
You can add case fans to improve the air circulation. The standard AMD CPU
fan should be ok.
Power supplies should be rated for 400 watts or more.
<neworder7@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125359012.414320.175800@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
using the net. Would this affect the way windows runs?
As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
supply
Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
I agree that the 300w PS is inadequate. However, I have a similar setup and
my Antec 350W PS is working just fine.
> On most AMD processors, if it heats up, it fries and will not work for
long.
>
> You can add case fans to improve the air circulation. The standard AMD CPU
> fan should be ok.
>
> Power supplies should be rated for 400 watts or more.
>
>
> <neworder7@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1125359012.414320.175800@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
> which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
> using the net. Would this affect the way windows runs?
> As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
> even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
> MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
>
> Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
> motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
> supply
>
> Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
> my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
>
> Thanks
>
> neworder7@hotmail.com
>
>
> Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
> which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
> using the net.
Forty-five degrees isn't hot. Fifty-five is warm but conceivable if
ventilation in the case isn't that good. Neither should harm the
machine.
> Would this affect the way windows runs?
No.
> As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
> even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
> MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
It's not the CPU, at least not at that temperature.
If this is new, malware infection is a very likely cause, if you have
any kind of network connection on the machine.
> Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
> motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
> supply
Does everything in the machine add up to less than 300 watts?
> Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
> my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
Lots of fans are less than £10 (most, I'd say). Don't skimp on fans;
buy good ones and keep your machine reliably cool for a long time.
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
amd thunderbirds have 2 types
one burns out at 90c, other burns out at 95c
you can find this info on their website.. nothing to worry about tbh
i'd say you're computer is bogged down from misbehaving software.. also
your psu does seem somewhat underpowered
to those who say "check if everything adds up to 300w"
go die because you count by rails not by watts
a 300w psu with good rails can be better than a 400w psu with crap rails
Those temps are not excesively hot. Have a look at your fan is it
covered in hard impacted dust? I cleaned mine of impacted dust and the
CPU temp dropped considerably.
chris wrote:
> I agree that the 300w PS is inadequate. However, I have a similar setup and
> my Antec 350W PS is working just fine.
Antec make better PSUs, so an Antec 350W PSU will usually be much better
than some generic crappy 350W PSU. I like Antec for cases as well.
>
>
>>On most AMD processors, if it heats up, it fries and will not work for
>
> long.
>
>>You can add case fans to improve the air circulation. The standard AMD CPU
>>fan should be ok.
>>
>>Power supplies should be rated for 400 watts or more.
>>
>>
>><neworder7@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1125359012.414320.175800@g14g2000cwa.google groups.com...
>>
>>Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
>>which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
>>using the net. Would this affect the way windows runs?
>>As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
>>even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
>>MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
>>
>>Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
>>motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
>>supply
>>
>>Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
>>my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>neworder7@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/
Mxsmanic wrote:
> neworder7@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
> > which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
> > using the net.
>
> Forty-five degrees isn't hot. Fifty-five is warm but conceivable if
> ventilation in the case isn't that good. Neither should harm the
> machine.
>
> > Would this affect the way windows runs?
>
> No.
>
> > As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
> > even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
> > MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
>
> It's not the CPU, at least not at that temperature.
>
> If this is new, malware infection is a very likely cause, if you have
> any kind of network connection on the machine.
I have connection to the net but i have Norton 2005 and 2 spy ware
programs that i update and scan regulary.
>
> > Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
> > motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
> > supply
>
> Does everything in the machine add up to less than 300 watts?
Yeah it does 280w or something like that.
>
> > Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
> > my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
>
> Lots of fans are less than £10 (most, I'd say). Don't skimp on fans;
> buy good ones and keep your machine reliably cool for a long time.
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
I think ms-word had some kind of program that caused that.
Can't remember what it's called at the moment.
Some kind of indexing program or something. Shut-it-down.
Bye,
Skybuck.
<neworder7@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125359012.414320.175800@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
using the net. Would this affect the way windows runs?
As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
supply
Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 23:17:20 -0400, "Yves Leclerc"
<yvesleclercNOSPAM@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On most AMD processors, if it heats up, it fries and will not work for long.
>
>You can add case fans to improve the air circulation. The standard AMD CPU
>fan should be ok.
>
>Power supplies should be rated for 400 watts or more.
>
Irrelevant, 55C is not overheated yet and will not slow down
windows. There would be no change in windows from reducing
the temp of a 55C Athlon.
> I have connection to the net but i have Norton 2005 and 2 spy ware
> programs that i update and scan regulary.
Perhaps, but nowadays malware is the first suspect when a user
complains of a PC suddenly slowing down or stopping without any
obvious explanation.
Severe disk problems can cause this too. If your power supply has not
been providing clean power for any reason, the risk of disk failure is
somewhat increased. Using a UPS can reduce the risks (for every part
of the PC, but particularly disk drives).
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
<neworder7@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125401386.907384.235410@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
Mxsmanic wrote:
> neworder7@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
> > which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
> > using the net.
>
> Forty-five degrees isn't hot. Fifty-five is warm but conceivable if
> ventilation in the case isn't that good. Neither should harm the
> machine.
>
> > Would this affect the way windows runs?
>
> No.
>
> > As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
> > even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playing a
> > MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
>
> It's not the CPU, at least not at that temperature.
>
> If this is new, malware infection is a very likely cause, if you have
> any kind of network connection on the machine.
I have connection to the net but i have Norton 2005 and 2 spy ware
programs that i update and scan regulary.
>
> > Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
> > motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
> > supply
>
> Does everything in the machine add up to less than 300 watts?
Yeah it does 280w or something like that.
If it's really ~ 280w, that would be over 90% of max - generally it's good
practice to keep the power supply operating below, say, 70% of max. Many
will say it should be in the 50% range.
General, the efficiency of a PS is best around 50% [just means that for the
power requirement for your system, the PS will generate less heat than one
that is operating less efficient].
If nothing else, operating close to the max exposes your system to effects
of spikes in power requirements pushing the load over max. [As noted below,
'max' is really only relevant by 'rail' i.e., 5v, 3.3v, 12 volt rails.]
Here's a calculator to estimate your power requirements.
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/
>
> > Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
> > my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
>
> Lots of fans are less than £10 (most, I'd say). Don't skimp on fans;
> buy good ones and keep your machine reliably cool for a long time.
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
fine.
fj wrote:
> <neworder7@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1125401386.907384.235410@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Mxsmanic wrote:
> > neworder7@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > > Hi could someone tell me if your CPU gets too hot around 45-55 degrees
> > > which mine sits at when its at idle or doing small tasks like word or
> > > using the net.
> >
> > Forty-five degrees isn't hot. Fifty-five is warm but conceivable if
> > ventilation in the case isn't that good. Neither should harm the
> > machine.
> >
> > > Would this affect the way windows runs?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > > As I have just noticed that my computer is starting to slow down and
> > > even sometimes stop for a second as I work on it. For example playinga
> > > MP3 or typing a word document or looking at using other programs.
> >
> > It's not the CPU, at least not at that temperature.
> >
> > If this is new, malware infection is a very likely cause, if you have
> > any kind of network connection on the machine.
>
> I have connection to the net but i have Norton 2005 and 2 spy ware
> programs that i update and scan regulary.
>
> >
> > > Im currently using a Windows XP with a AMD 2400+ CPU on a MSI NForce 2
> > > motherboard 2x 1gig sticks and 2x HD & ATI 9600. With a 300w power
> > > supply
> >
> > Does everything in the machine add up to less than 300 watts?
>
> Yeah it does 280w or something like that.
>
> If it's really ~ 280w, that would be over 90% of max - generally it's good
> practice to keep the power supply operating below, say, 70% of max. Many
> will say it should be in the 50% range.
> General, the efficiency of a PS is best around 50% [just means that for the
> power requirement for your system, the PS will generate less heat than one
> that is operating less efficient].
> If nothing else, operating close to the max exposes your system to effects
> of spikes in power requirements pushing the load over max. [As noted below,
> 'max' is really only relevant by 'rail' i.e., 5v, 3.3v, 12 volt rails.]
> Here's a calculator to estimate your power requirements.
>
> http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/
> >
> > > Also any recommendations on CPU fans under £10 i should buy to replace
> > > my old one if required and PSU quiet PSU unties for under £25
> >
> > Lots of fans are less than £10 (most, I'd say). Don't skimp on fans;
> > buy good ones and keep your machine reliably cool for a long time.
> >
> > --
> > Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
> fine.
>
You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
In article <1125924582.926841.36880@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, neworder7@hotmail.com says...
> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
> fine.
>
You should work out the maximum current that your equipment requires
from each rail, and buy a PSU that can sustain that output. Total power
rating can be fairly meaningless, and the ratings for cheap PSUs can be
fairly meaningless - you could find a cheap PSU with a high rating is
inadequate for your needs while a better quality PSU with a lower rating
will work fine.
Leythos wrote:
> In article <pan.2005.09.05.16.41.54.199519@TAKEOUTverizon.net >,
> w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net says...
>
>>On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>>fine.
>>>
>>
>>You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
>>under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>
>
> Don't buy a cheap $20 PSU, get an Antec 450W or 550W power supply, they
> will provide better power, provide the full rated loads, and are well
> worth their money: About $50~70 most places.
>
Agreed. Buying a cheap PSU is asking for trouble.
--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>
>
>> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>fine.
>>
>
> You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
> under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>
And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated watts.
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
> Wes Newell wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>>
>>> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>>fine.
>>
>> You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
>> under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>>
> And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated watts.
And neither will some name brand models that cost 5 times more, so what's
your point? Hmmm.... I need 400W, so I buy a 400Antec that will put out
400W for say $50, or I buy a 600W for $18 that will only put out 550W. Now
which is the best deal? But wait, you say the Antec has larger caps. Wow,
so instead of the system crashing in 5ms during a brownout, the Antac will
go for 10ms.:-) Spend the money you save on a UPS. That's muxh more
important than a name brand PSU.
My cheap 600W that some name brand zealots predicted would be dead within
a year is now into the 18th month of 24/7 operation Both my cheap PSU's
for my K7 systems are still going after 5 years, and the really cheap 400W
in my current backup K7 system is still going after about 3 years. if you
want bragging rights, buy a name brand.
In message <pan.2005.09.06.06.37.33.914945@TAKEOUTverizon.net > Wes
Newell <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>
>> Wes Newell wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>>>
>>>> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>>>fine.
>>>
>>> You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
>>> under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>>>
>> And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated watts.
>
>And neither will some name brand models that cost 5 times more, so what's
>your point? Hmmm.... I need 400W, so I buy a 400Antec that will put out
>400W for say $50, or I buy a 600W for $18 that will only put out 550W. Now
>which is the best deal? But wait, you say the Antec has larger caps. Wow,
>so instead of the system crashing in 5ms during a brownout, the Antac will
>go for 10ms.:-) Spend the money you save on a UPS. That's muxh more
>important than a name brand PSU.
Sure, except that the "brownout" might only last 5ms-10ms, and a cheapo
one might burn out completely after a couple of those.
Also, the 600W $18 ones typically don't do anywhere near 400W sustained,
although it really depends on the power supply you get, and whether or
not you luck out and get one from a good batch.
I've blown half a dozen of the cheapo ones before learning my lesson,
virtually always they died when there was unstable power coming in from
the mains. I've yet to lose a "name brand" (my desktop is Antec, my
servers are something else, I forget what off-hand, but some of them
have been going 5-6 years)
--
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section
in a swimming pool.
Wes Newell wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>
>
>>Wes Newell wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>>>fine.
>>>
>>>You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
>>>under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>>>
>>
>>And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated watts.
>
>
> And neither will some name brand models that cost 5 times more,
Just because you made it up doesn't make it so.
> so what's
> your point?
The point was clear as a bell. The supposed 'watts' on the el-cheapos isn't
what they'll do.
> Hmmm.... I need 400W, so I buy a 400Antec that will put out
> 400W for say $50,
In other words, it does what it says.
> or I buy a 600W for $18 that will only put out 550W.
Dream on. Not even close.
> Now
> which is the best deal?
The one that does what it says because then you know what it does.
> But wait, you say the Antec has larger caps.
I said nothing at all about Antec, nor caps. Busy inventing things again I see.
> Wow,
> so instead of the system crashing in 5ms during a brownout, the Antac will
> go for 10ms.:-) Spend the money you save on a UPS.
Aint no savings at all if you have to buy a UPS just to keep your el-cheap
PSU running.
> That's muxh more
> important than a name brand PSU.
Hogwash
>
> My cheap 600W that some name brand zealots predicted would be dead within
> a year is now into the 18th month of 24/7 operation Both my cheap PSU's
> for my K7 systems are still going after 5 years, and the really cheap 400W
> in my current backup K7 system is still going after about 3 years. if you
> want bragging rights, buy a name brand.
Lucky you. Others aren't so lucky. Buy crap and gamble.
Not to mention I have a natural aversion to liars just on general
principle, even if nothing else, and that includes folks who advertise B.S.
Watts to sucker fools into buying them.
"Wes Newell" <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.06.06.37.33.914945@TAKEOUTverizon .net...
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>
>> Wes Newell wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>>>
>>>> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>>>fine.
>>>
>>> You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W
>>> for
>>> under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>>>
>> And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated
>> watts.
>
> And neither will some name brand models that cost 5 times more, so what's
> your point? Hmmm.... I need 400W, so I buy a 400Antec that will put out
> 400W for say $50, or I buy a 600W for $18 that will only put out 550W. Now
> which is the best deal? But wait, you say the Antec has larger caps. Wow,
> so instead of the system crashing in 5ms during a brownout, the Antac will
> go for 10ms.:-) Spend the money you save on a UPS. That's muxh more
> important than a name brand PSU.
>
> My cheap 600W that some name brand zealots predicted would be dead within
> a year is now into the 18th month of 24/7 operation Both my cheap PSU's
> for my K7 systems are still going after 5 years, and the really cheap 400W
> in my current backup K7 system is still going after about 3 years. if you
> want bragging rights, buy a name brand.
>
> --
> KT133 MB, CPU @2400MHz (24x100): SIS755 MB CPU @2330MHz (10x233)
> Need good help? Provide all system info with question.
> My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
> Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
>
Your cheap $18 PSU has low amperage on the 12 volt rail compared to the
Antec (and amperage is more critical than rock steady voltage). Your cheap
$18 PSU has no feedback protection, and does not stabilize for several
*SECONDS* after powering up. You are a cretin for espousing the use of a
cheap PSU on any system. The fact that you have no issues is indicative
that the rest of the hardware in your system is as equally crappy as the $18
PSU you use. I bet you drive a rusted out POS car, too.
no matter the supply, its a crap shoot. however I would not put in a $18 PSU
in any machine that I use or build. Its skimping on the most important part
of the system and I do not appreciate the 'heightened adrenaline rush some
get when they press the power button and the machine actually powers up.
"Wes Newell" <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.06.06.37.33.914945@TAKEOUTverizon .net...
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>
> > Wes Newell wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
> >>
> >>> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
> >>>fine.
> >>
> >> You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W
for
> >> under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
> >>
> > And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated
watts.
>
> And neither will some name brand models that cost 5 times more, so what's
> your point? Hmmm.... I need 400W, so I buy a 400Antec that will put out
> 400W for say $50, or I buy a 600W for $18 that will only put out 550W. Now
> which is the best deal? But wait, you say the Antec has larger caps. Wow,
> so instead of the system crashing in 5ms during a brownout, the Antac will
> go for 10ms.:-) Spend the money you save on a UPS. That's muxh more
> important than a name brand PSU.
>
> My cheap 600W that some name brand zealots predicted would be dead within
> a year is now into the 18th month of 24/7 operation Both my cheap PSU's
> for my K7 systems are still going after 5 years, and the really cheap 400W
> in my current backup K7 system is still going after about 3 years. if you
> want bragging rights, buy a name brand.
>
> --
> KT133 MB, CPU @2400MHz (24x100): SIS755 MB CPU @2330MHz (10x233)
> Need good help? Provide all system info with question.
> My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
> Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
>
On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 01:48:03 -0600, DevilsPGD wrote:
> I've blown half a dozen of the cheapo ones before learning my lesson,
> virtually always they died when there was unstable power coming in from
> the mains. I've yet to lose a "name brand" (my desktop is Antec, my
> servers are something else, I forget what off-hand, but some of them
> have been going 5-6 years)
The Novell server where I used to work had a failed PSU in 1995. It was a
name brand that came with the server which originally was a 386. I
replaced it with a no-name and it's still running today after 10 years, as
is the drives from the same time frame. BTW, If you had bad power coming
in, you should have fixed that with a regulated UPS. Changing the PSU
didn't fix anything. It only masked the problem. That's if I believed you
actually lost 6 PSU's to this, which I don't.:-)
On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 03:25:29 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
> Wes Newell wrote:
>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>>>Wes Newell wrote:
>>>>On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>>>>fine.
>>>>
>>>>You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
>>>>under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>>>
>>>And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated watts.
>>
>> And neither will some name brand models that cost 5 times more,
>
> Just because you made it up doesn't make it so.
>
Sorry, unlike others, I only dissimnate facts. If you care to look it up.
There's reviews on either tomshardware or anandtech that I took this
info from. It shows that many name brand units wouldn't put up the max
output, with some even blowing up. So go look it up.
>> so what's
>> your point?
>
> The point was clear as a bell. The supposed 'watts' on the el-cheapos
> isn't what they'll do.
>
Some will, some won't. Just like name brands. It's really doesn't matter.
>> Hmmm.... I need 400W, so I buy a 400Antec that will put out
>> 400W for say $50,
>
> In other words, it does what it says.
>
I don't know if it will or won't. For this I just assumed it will. Are
yo7u doubting Antec?:-)
>> or I buy a 600W for $18 that will only put out 550W.
>
> Dream on. Not even close.
>
More guesswork I see.
>> Now which is the best deal?
>
> The one that does what it says because then you know what it does.
>
You sound like a 2 year old.
> Aint no savings at all if you have to buy a UPS just to keep your
> el-cheap PSU running.
>
I don't care if you have the cheapest PSU made or a $200 PC Power &
cooling PSU, running the system without a UPS is just plain stupid unless
you don't care about your system
>> That's muxh more important than a name brand PSU.
>
> Hogwash
It's not hogwash when you're doing a critical task and power fails and you
loose the data and maybe a few hundred hours work.
>> My cheap 600W that some name brand zealots predicted would be dead
>> within a year is now into the 18th month of 24/7 operation Both my
>> cheap PSU's for my K7 systems are still going after 5 years, and the
>> really cheap 400W in my current backup K7 system is still going after
>> about 3 years. if you want bragging rights, buy a name brand.
>
> Lucky you. Others aren't so lucky. Buy crap and gamble.
>
Luck has nothing to do with it.
> Not to mention I have a natural aversion to liars just on general
> principle, even if nothing else, and that includes folks who advertise
> B.S. Watts to sucker fools into buying them.
Well, at one point in time that would include almost all (if not all) name
brand PSU makers. Look up the reviews and you will see this.
>On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>
>> Wes Newell wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>>>
>>>> So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>>>fine.
>>>
>>> You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
>>> under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>>>
>> And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated watts.
>
>And neither will some name brand models that cost 5 times more, so what's
>your point?
"Some"? Sure, one can buy a pseudo-name brand instead of a
major PSU manufacturer name-brand and get stung, but in
general, no, there is a clear correlation between
name-brands having significantly higher output per labeled
wattage.
>Hmmm.... I need 400W, so I buy a 400Antec that will put out
>400W for say $50, or I buy a 600W for $18 that will only put out 550W.
This is where you keep going wrong, time after time it's
been pointed out to you but you don't even do the testing
necessary to draw a conclusion. Your $18 pseudo-"600W" PSU
_CANNOT_ put out 550W. You're making up nonsense and have
no evidence whatsoever that it can even put out 400W
long-term. There are of course kids out there that draw
ridiculous conclusions akin to "I ran a 500W car amp from
one therefore it's fine"... which is fine if that car amp
were using 500W continuous power but that's not how audio
works, it wouldn't be listenable at all if the peaks were
all chopped @ 500W.
>Now
>which is the best deal?
The one where it works as labeled instead of supporting
fraud. The one where you can use specs to determine what
you need instead of it being like a lottery.
> But wait, you say the Antec has larger caps. Wow,
>so instead of the system crashing in 5ms during a brownout, the Antac will
>go for 10ms.:-) Spend the money you save on a UPS. That's muxh more
>important than a name brand PSU.
You show your ignorance here. There is NOTHING an inline
filter before the PSU, nor line conditioner, nor UPS, can do
to change the problem with insufficient capacitors on the
output of a SMPS. However, if I were you and trying to use
one, I'd build some kind of buffer board that plugs into a
4-pin molex, with the caps the PSU should've had in it to
begin with. The time and cost will offset the low cost of
the generic though, and be of lesser benefit, but at least
it attempts to combat one of the problems.
Then of course you'd have to replace the fan(s) too.
>
>My cheap 600W that some name brand zealots predicted would be dead within
>a year is now into the 18th month of 24/7 operation Both my cheap PSU's
>for my K7 systems are still going after 5 years, and the really cheap 400W
>in my current backup K7 system is still going after about 3 years. if you
>want bragging rights, buy a name brand.
Yeah, you want to claim systems that need roughly 100-250W
total output are a test of a so-called 600W PSU. Hint- If
you only needed 250W output all you had to do was buy an
accurately rated ATX12V 300W PSU, so your ideas about 5X the
cost are unfounded... and this doesn't even consider that
for these systems you have running, PLENTY of people have
had their generic PSUs fail, then had to buy another PSU, a
better one, wasting money on the generic the first time
around and some even frying parts along the way.
The issue is that rated wattage is a primary factor in
qualifying a PSU for any particular use. You'd like to
discount one-part-at-a-time but then fail to accept that
after all these downgraded parts are considered, the unit
doesn't actually have similar output capability long-term
and cannot be qualified for higher-end uses based on it's
rating.
Who is claiming a system usually needs a "550W" PSU though?
The numbers you're citing are essentially fictional and
can't be applied in any context except what's printed onto a
generc PSU's label. Determine accurate system needs then
pair with a PSU proven to be able to supply that... it IS
possible to select a generic that can do it, but even then
you face other issues like the fan quality or protection
circuitry.
On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 22:42:43 -1000, NoNoBadDog! wrote:
> Your cheap $18 PSU has low amperage on the 12 volt rail compared to the
> Antec (and amperage is more critical than rock steady voltage).
Didn't check and don't care. At 24A it's more than adequate.
> Your cheap $18 PSU has no feedback protection, and does not stabilize
> for several *SECONDS* after powering up.
I'm not even concerned if this is true or not.
> You are a cretin for espousing the use of a cheap PSU on any system.
> The fact that you have no issues is indicative that the rest of the
> hardware in your system is as equally crappy as the
> $18 PSU you use. I bet you drive a rusted out POS car, too.
>
So now you want to make it personal with name calling? First, my car has
about 15K miles on it. And second, you are just another moron that spouts
out crap that you don't agree with even if you can't offer any real
first hand proof. I suspect the only thing you use your hand for is done
in bedroom upon yourself. I think you've been just a little benighted.
> no matter the supply, its a crap shoot. however I would not put in a $18 PSU
> in any machine that I use or build. Its skimping on the most important part
> of the system and I do not appreciate the 'heightened adrenaline rush some
> get when they press the power button and the machine actually powers up.
>
To each his own. I don't need the rush. And as I run my system 24/7 I
don't push the power button often. By all means, if one can afford a high
dollar PSU, it should work as well as a cheap one, maybe better, but just
maybe.
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 01:48:03 -0600, DevilsPGD wrote:
>
>
>>I've blown half a dozen of the cheapo ones before learning my lesson,
>>virtually always they died when there was unstable power coming in from
>>the mains. I've yet to lose a "name brand" (my desktop is Antec, my
>>servers are something else, I forget what off-hand, but some of them
>>have been going 5-6 years)
>
>
> The Novell server where I used to work had a failed PSU in 1995. It was a
> name brand that came with the server which originally was a 386. I
> replaced it with a no-name and it's still running today after 10 years,
I hate to tell you this but trying to make judgments about arbitrary 'no
names' today based on an unspecified PSU bought 10 years ago is nonsense
even beyond anecdotal stories being close to useless.
> as
> is the drives from the same time frame. BTW, If you had bad power coming
> in, you should have fixed that with a regulated UPS. Changing the PSU
> didn't fix anything. It only masked the problem. That's if I believed you
> actually lost 6 PSU's to this, which I don't.:-)
>
> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 03:25:29 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>
>
>>Wes Newell wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>>>
>>>>Wes Newell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 05:49:42 -0700, neworder7 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>So does this mean i should be getting a 500w PSU or is a 400watt PSU
>>>>>>fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>You should be getting the largest you can afford. And you can get 600W for
>>>>>under $20, 550W for under $15, and 500W for about $12.
>>>>
>>>>And at those prices not a one of them will actually put out the stated watts.
>>>
>>>And neither will some name brand models that cost 5 times more,
>>
>>Just because you made it up doesn't make it so.
>>
>
> Sorry, unlike others, I only dissimnate facts.
You haven't disseminated a 'fact' yet.
> If you care to look it up.
> There's reviews on either tomshardware or anandtech that I took this
> info from. It shows that many name brand units wouldn't put up the max
> output, with some even blowing up. So go look it up.
You're the one making the claim. YOU look it up.
>
>
>>>so what's
>>>your point?
>>
>>The point was clear as a bell. The supposed 'watts' on the el-cheapos
>>isn't what they'll do.
>>
>
> Some will, some won't. Just like name brands. It's really doesn't matter.
Utter nonsense.
>>>Hmmm.... I need 400W, so I buy a 400Antec that will put out
>>>400W for say $50,
>>
>>In other words, it does what it says.
>>
>
> I don't know if it will or won't.
The premise you posed was that it did. Now you don't know your own premise?
> For this I just assumed it will.
You make 'assumptions' all over the place, mostly incorrect ones.
> Are
> yo7u doubting Antec?:-)
You're the one who brought up Antec. It's your problem.
>>>or I buy a 600W for $18 that will only put out 550W.
>>
>>Dream on. Not even close.
>>
>
> More guesswork I see.
Nope. Comes from looking at a ton of them and replacing a ton of failed
ones suckers bought.
Some of them will even tell you they're lying, after you've bought it and
look at the sticker inside to discover the '600 Watts' emblazoned across
the package front is really an undefined and meaningless "peak watts."
>>>Now which is the best deal?
>>
>>The one that does what it says because then you know what it does.
>>
>
> You sound like a 2 year old.
Since you had so much trouble understanding it I put in a simple manner you
could grasp.
>>Aint no savings at all if you have to buy a UPS just to keep your
>>el-cheap PSU running.
>>
>
> I don't care if you have the cheapest PSU made or a $200 PC Power &
> cooling PSU, running the system without a UPS is just plain stupid unless
> you don't care about your system
More nonsense.
>>>That's muxh more important than a name brand PSU.
>>
>>Hogwash
>
>
> It's not hogwash when you're doing a critical task and power fails and you
> loose the data and maybe a few hundred hours work.
Yes, claiming a UPS is more important than the PSU is hogwash and, in case
you hadn't noticed, a UPS won't keep a system up if the PSU craters nor
will it turn an el-cheapo '550 watt' PSU only capable of 350-400 Watts,
knock on wood, into a 550 Watt PSU like the lying sticker said it was.
>>>My cheap 600W that some name brand zealots predicted would be dead
>>>within a year is now into the 18th month of 24/7 operation Both my
>>>cheap PSU's for my K7 systems are still going after 5 years, and the
>>>really cheap 400W in my current backup K7 system is still going after
>>>about 3 years. if you want bragging rights, buy a name brand.
>>
>>Lucky you. Others aren't so lucky. Buy crap and gamble.
>>
>
> Luck has nothing to do with it.
More nonsense.
>>Not to mention I have a natural aversion to liars just on general
>>principle, even if nothing else, and that includes folks who advertise
>>B.S. Watts to sucker fools into buying them.
>
>
> Well, at one point in time that would include almost all (if not all) name
> brand PSU makers. Look up the reviews and you will see this.
>
> Here's the most current, with 6 out of 19 name brand PSU's failing the
> test.
> http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20...sstest-28.html
>
> So who's really dishing out BS?:-)
You are and taking that review to make the claim el-cheapos and 'name
brands' are 'the same' and it "doesn't matter" is a good example of it.
In the first place, I never said all, or any particular, 'brand' and every
model they make was perfect. Second, you're taking a test where any anomaly
whatsoever results in a 'fail' and then claiming missing a spec by a small
amount under the most dire conditions is 'the same' as not coming even
close under any conditions, as with the 15 buck el-cheapos.
Case in point, taken at random, the $130 Hiper Type R580 passed every test
relative to the specification except the 12 volt being 12.32 vs a maximum
of 12.3. So it failed by being off .16% and you then claim this is 'the
same' as a supposed "550 watt" el-cheapo only managing 350-400 watts at God
only knows what voltages. *That* is "B.S."
And I'm being generous in the comparison because the el-cheapo's 'failure'
is likely to be a complete self destruct rather that some minuscule voltage
error on the 12 volt rail where it has negligible effect.
Not to mention that all the classic 'brands' one might consider a 'brand
name' PSU PASSED under full 'box label' load.
Windows Slowing down from HOT CPU Help 
Linear Mode
