Go Back   Wireless and Wifi Forums > News > Newsgroups > alt.computer.security
Register FAQ Forum Rules Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Advertise Mark Forums Read

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 02:11 AM
Dickie Peters
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is Firewall essential in this case?

Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?

Thanks.

Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 02:41 AM
Todd H.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Dickie Peters <ferrante276-ng@yahoo.com> writes:

> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?


Zone alarm is pretty solid.

THe added protection you'd get from it vs the existing solutions is
notification of outbound internet access attempts from applications.
How big a deal that is, is debateable.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 03:26 AM
Notan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Dickie Peters wrote:
> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?


You may just have opened a huge can of worms, and on that note...

--
Notan

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 08:11 AM
Wraeth
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Dickie Peters wrote:
> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?
>
> Thanks.


It seems to me as though you don't know exactly what a firewall does...
It may be an idea for you to do some research (search 'firewall' in
google, for example) to find out what it does. As for whether you are
adequately protected, what you need to keep in mind is that different
firewalls suit different people. It depends on your technological
knowledge, what sort of control you would like, etc.

Do some research, then 'shop around' for a firewall that suits you. Try
some different ones to see what they're like, and settle down with the
one you like.

A friend of mine made a page for a company he worked for explaining it all:

http://www.jpc.nsw.edu.au/support/self/fwall.htm

See if that helps clear the situation for you.

Cheers
wraeth

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 02:24 PM
greenandwhitefr@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?



On Jan 22, 10:11 am, Dickie Peters <ferrante276...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?
>
> Thanks.


Personally, I recommend using Comodo since it offer good outbound
protection.
Your router provide some sort of inbound protection (although it is not
a hardware firewall theoritically)
Computer experts recommend users to use both hardware firewall and
software firewall to offer additional protection.
http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/before_you_plug_in.html


For more information about PC internet security,please visit my
website:
http://removevirus.blogspot.com/
There are a lot of links to websites about basic knowledge of PC
internet security.

P.S.
The website of Wraeth's friend is excellent. Good Job,Wraeth !


Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 03:28 PM
greenandwhitefr@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?


Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
> greenandwhitefr@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Jan 22, 10:11 am, Dickie Peters <ferrante276...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
> >> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
> >> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
> >> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?
> >>
> >> Thanks.

> >
> > Personally, I recommend using Comodo since it offer good outbound
> > protection.

>
> Well, sadly just in your reality.
>
> > Computer experts recommend users to use both hardware firewall and
> > software firewall to offer additional protection.
> > http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/before_you_plug_in.html

>
> Where are the computer experts? You only referenced CERT, who are experts
> in telling how the users stay out of problems longer (but without any
> security) while staying dump so the have less trouble.
>
> Beside that, they don't make any such recommendation.
>
> > For more information about PC internet security,please visit my
> > website:
> > http://removevirus.blogspot.com/

>
> Someone who has a clue about security would never ever go there, since just
> the name obviously implies nonsense.
>
> > There are a lot of links to websites about basic knowledge of PC
> > internet security.

>
> Well, why don't you provide any? I can only see advertisement for
> superfluos software, made by fools with no technical competence, not
> providing and real knowledge.


Thank you for your comments,Sebastian Gottschalk.


Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 04:15 PM
Todd H.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Sebastian Gottschalk <seppi@seppig.de> writes:

> greenandwhitefr@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Jan 22, 10:11 am, Dickie Peters <ferrante276...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
> >> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
> >> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
> >> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?
> >>
> >> Thanks.

> >
> > Personally, I recommend using Comodo since it offer good outbound
> > protection.

>
> Well, sadly just in your reality.


Sebbastian, why are you such a sad, negative, *******?

Just asking. You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy and would have
quite a bit to offer the world if you weren't so often such a
beligerent twat to well-meaning folks.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 04:59 PM
Todd H.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Sebastian Gottschalk <seppi@seppig.de> writes:

> And of course it would be nice if outbound protection could work in some
> serious way. But for obvious reasons it doesn't and won't ever.


For the obvious-impaired, can you highlight these reasons?

I'm still of the opinion that the outbound protection in software
firewalls is better than not having it at all, but I'm curious to know
the reasons behind your stance that it's worthless.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 06:02 PM
Zilbandy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:28:14 +0100, Sebastian Gottschalk
<seppi@seppig.de> wrote:

>> but I'm curious to know the reasons behind your stance that it's worthless.

>
>Obviously: It isn't reliable to any point, thus doesn't provide any
>security. It's an intrusion detection mechanism at best, and even then
>worthless due to the decrease of security by the implementation.


A lock on your front door is worthless if someone really wants to
break into your house... but I bet you have one, anyway. Why?

--
Zilbandy

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 07:44 PM
Dickie Peters
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Ok, apparently my initial post has caused some debate here. I posted
here because you know much more than I do, so let me clarify my
question.

Like everyone else, I want to prevent any hackers from attacking my
machine. I want to block those attacks, but at the same time I would
like to prevent anything that should not be on my computer, such as
malware, from sending out my personal information or whatever.

Being on disability, I cannot afford a lot of expensive software. With
that, can someone offer me the basics of what I should have installed
to offer me as much protection, both incoming and outgoing, as
possible? My OS is XP if that helps.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Dickie


Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2007, 02:49 AM
Wraeth
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
> Dickie Peters wrote:
>
>> Like everyone else, I want to prevent any hackers from attacking my
>> machine. I want to block those attacks,

>
> There is no need to block anything that should trivially fail anyway.
>
>> but at the same time I would
>> like to prevent anything that should not be on my computer, such as
>> malware, from sending out my personal information or whatever.

>
> This doesn't work, no matter how much you want it.
>
> The real solution is to simply not run any malware in first place. This is
> what you should focus on.
>
>> Being on disability, I cannot afford a lot of expensive software. With
>> that, can someone offer me the basics of what I should have installed
>> to offer me as much protection, both incoming and outgoing, as
>> possible?

>
> Stop thinking in terms of installing more software would help.
>
> Competent usage helps. Secure configuration helps. Using non-vulnerable
> software helps. No software could replace that.


Sebastian,

It seems to me that you have some strong opinions on the subject of
computer security. But perhaps you should think about how you word your
opinions before you send them off.

The idea of groups such as this is to /discuss/ computer security and to
provide /assistance/ to people who ask for it. You are simply trying to
prove to everyone that you are better because you know about it, and
everyone else deserves nothing more that to be looked down upon.

The concept of providing assistance, especially to people who wish to
learn, is to provide constructive criticism, not to say "I know how it
works, so do it my way or else you may as well not do it at all." I can
see that you do indeed know about computer security, and you can provide
a wealth of information, as well as to identify potential threats; but
that does not mean that someone who offers a suggestion that does not
cover that threat is incompetent and deserves only your contempt.

Instead of saying "No, your wrong because of this. Do it my way - /it/
works", perhaps something more along the lines of "Yes, that will cover
those threats, but will still leave open this vulnerability. This should
cover it as well", and be open to further suggestions that are perhaps
easier to manage/implement, instead of saying "my way works, so use it".

Different solutions are suitable for different people. Your way might
work, but others can as well, and may sit better with the people who use it.

Remember:
Knowledge /is/ power.
Wisdom is knowing how to use it.

Respectfully,
wraeth

Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2007, 03:05 AM
Wraeth
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Dickie Peters wrote:
> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?
>
> Thanks.

Dickie,

This site my friend made is aimed towards explaining computer security
for the not-precisely-computer-literate staff of a school he worked at,
and explains everything on the assumption that you have only a basic
knowledge of computers (basic point-and-click skills, basic knowledge of
the Internet). It may not be exactly what you need, but as well as
giving a basic overview of computer security, it points you to several
resources, and tells you how you can learn more - either about security,
or how to protect yourself.

http://www.jpc.nsw.edu.au/support/self/security.htm

Have a look and that should help you out.

Cheers, and good luck
wraeth

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2007, 03:50 PM
Roger Parks
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?


> The concept of providing assistance, especially to people who wish to
> learn, is to provide constructive criticism, not to say "I know how it
> works, so do it my way or else you may as well not do it at all." I can
> see that you do indeed know about computer security, and you can provide
> a wealth of information, as well as to identify potential threats; but
> that does not mean that someone who offers a suggestion that does not
> cover that threat is incompetent and deserves only your contempt.
>
> Instead of saying "No, your wrong because of this. Do it my way - /it/
> works", perhaps something more along the lines of "Yes, that will cover
> those threats, but will still leave open this vulnerability. This should
> cover it as well", and be open to further suggestions that are perhaps
> easier to manage/implement, instead of saying "my way works, so use it".


You mis-diagnose the situation.

There is a broad range of experience-levels here - not only beginners -
and a terse reminder is frequently more useful than some drawn out,
entry-level tutorial. Time is valuable, and contributors can either write
one or two tutorials/month, or make more frequent posts that will be
appreciated by at least a few.

For example, consider the preceding exchange:

">> Like everyone else, I want to prevent any hackers from attacking my
>> machine. I want to block those attacks,


> There is no need to block anything that should trivially fail anyway."


This is a brilliant way of quickly reminding the reader that, " "blocking"
is not necessary when there are neither listening services nor active
daemons (either using or bypassing the communications stack). Focus your
attention on careful administration."

Many (not all) would prefer the more succinct comment, to none at all.

Instead of complaining that someone's style is terse, seems cryptic, and
lacks politically-correct nuance, try calmly understanding what is being
said - it may require rereading, and a follow-up question. Many
experienced users tire of the eternal question, "which is the best
firewall" and simply go away.

--
Vista EULA 4.7: TCPA / RIAA / NGSCP/ AACS / WGA VIOLATION. Palladium
detected driver tilt-bit changes and Linux VM activity. HD scan in
progress to consolidate and transmit driver, system and kernel logs;
document and report disallowed activities and unapproved content.
Revocation clause has been invoked. Submit an explanation, and request an
application for a probationary key to reactivate MS's software at
1-425-4.#..8@
..

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007, 01:52 AM
Wraeth
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Roger Parks wrote:
>
>> The concept of providing assistance, especially to people who wish to
>> learn, is to provide constructive criticism, not to say "I know how it
>> works, so do it my way or else you may as well not do it at all." I
>> can see that you do indeed know about computer security, and you can
>> provide a wealth of information, as well as to identify potential
>> threats; but that does not mean that someone who offers a suggestion
>> that does not cover that threat is incompetent and deserves only your
>> contempt.
>>
>> Instead of saying "No, your wrong because of this. Do it my way - /it/
>> works", perhaps something more along the lines of "Yes, that will
>> cover those threats, but will still leave open this vulnerability.
>> This should cover it as well", and be open to further suggestions that
>> are perhaps easier to manage/implement, instead of saying "my way
>> works, so use it".

>
> You mis-diagnose the situation.
>
> There is a broad range of experience-levels here - not only beginners -
> and a terse reminder is frequently more useful than some drawn out,
> entry-level tutorial. Time is valuable, and contributors can either
> write one or two tutorials/month, or make more frequent posts that will
> be appreciated by at least a few.
>


> This is a brilliant way of quickly reminding the reader that, "
> "blocking" is not necessary when there are neither listening services
> nor active daemons (either using or bypassing the communications stack).
> Focus your attention on careful administration."
>
> Many (not all) would prefer the more succinct comment, to none at all.
>
> Instead of complaining that someone's style is terse, seems cryptic, and
> lacks politically-correct nuance, try calmly understanding what is being
> said - it may require rereading, and a follow-up question. Many
> experienced users tire of the eternal question, "which is the best
> firewall" and simply go away.
>


Roger,

The point that I was trying to get across was this: From the opening
post, I can draw the assumption that either the OP is either competent
in the use of computers, but not necessarily computer security; or that
the OP is not particularly computer literate, but can identify
information that may be pertinent when asking the initial question.
While the OP understands the need to consider the security of their
computer, they are inexperienced in the methods of designing such a
security system.

When taking this into account, it seemed to me that Sebastian was taking
an all-or-nothing approach: if the OP understood what was being said,
then they would learn more about the topic and be able to secure their
system themselves; if they did not, then their computer is not worth the
effort of securing.

> For example, consider the preceding exchange:
>
> "Like everyone else, I want to prevent any hackers from attacking my

machine. I want to block those attacks,"
>
>> There is no need to block anything that should trivially fail anyway."

>


I agree - if there is nothing to attack, then there is no need to secure
it. However, if the OP is not well-versed in computer security, then it
is reasonable to assume that they either don't know how to secure the
services/applications on their computer; or that they don't know which
ones to secure.

> and a terse reminder is frequently more useful than some drawn out,

entry-level tutorial.

Yes, but there is a difference between a terse reminder and an arrogant
statement that implies that the speaker knows all.

I was not intending either to attack or to complain about anyone, merely
making a suggestion on the method of delivery. I agree that time is
indeed valuable. But if it is so valuable, why waste time responding to
a support request? I agree with the all-or-nothing approach that
Sebastian took, but completely in reverse - if one decides to provide
support, then take the time to explain and research the details, not
just shoot off a brief snippet that professionals would understand but
leaves the person asking for help in the dark. I do not presume to be
the master of providing support, but I have found that this is the most
effective.

Regards,
wraeth

Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007, 08:45 PM
JAB
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Todd H. wrote:
> Sebastian Gottschalk <seppi@seppig.de> writes:
>
>> greenandwhitefr@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 22, 10:11 am, Dickie Peters <ferrante276...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
>>>> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
>>>> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
>>>> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>> Personally, I recommend using Comodo since it offer good outbound
>>> protection.

>> Well, sadly just in your reality.

>
> Sebbastian, why are you such a sad, negative, *******?
>
> Just asking. You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy and would have
> quite a bit to offer the world if you weren't so often such a
> beligerent twat to well-meaning folks.
>
> Best Regards,


He seems "like a reasonably intelligent guy" ... well if you read his
posts you'll soon change you opinion. He has no concept of actually
accessing risks in terms of security.

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007, 08:51 PM
Todd H.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

JAB <nochance@nohope.com> writes:

> He seems "like a reasonably intelligent guy" ... well if you read his
> posts you'll soon change you opinion. He has no concept of actually
> accessing risks in terms of security.


Granted. Sebastian would be fit for the crazy academic codger role, I
think.

His views clearly demonstrate that he is fairly insulated from the
diversity of real world users and real world systems used in modern
corporations, and has correspondingly myopic views on what's useful
and not useful in terms of mitigating risk for a general userbase.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007, 09:33 PM
Roger Parks
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:51:38 -0500, Todd H. <comphelp@toddh.net> wrote:

> JAB <nochance@nohope.com> writes:
>
>> He seems "like a reasonably intelligent guy" ... well if you read his
>> posts you'll soon change you opinion. He has no concept of actually
>> accessing risks in terms of security.


Well, your last sentence - accessing risks (the consequence of a potential
loss and likelihood of compromise) in terms of (costs and) security - is
exactly what is needed for most users, but you're the first visitor I've
seen here who actually wants to consider such things.

Most people seem to want pat, one liners and no thinking required.

>
> Granted. Sebastian would be fit for the crazy academic codger role, I
> think.
>
> His views clearly demonstrate that he is fairly insulated from the
> diversity of real world users and real world systems used in modern
> corporations, and has correspondingly myopic views on what's useful
> and not useful in terms of mitigating risk for a general userbase.


So, do you want him to go away? To exclude him, his thoughts, and his
refreshing, "codger" way of quipping? Would this place improve with his
departure?

Or perhaps you want to "change" him? Changing him would be a loss as well.

- Far more offensive, IMHO, are the characters who pop in here, ask a
question; get some thoughtful replies; and never comes back to explain how
they solved the problem, or thank folks for their responses.

Why can't we just sit back and either accept or ignore what is offered
(mostly cliche's); make a contribution when we're able; quietly enjoy the
characters and idiosyncrasies that occasionally reveal themselves; and
hope for an occasional nugget?

--
Vista EULA 4.7: TCPA / RIAA / NGSCP/ AACS / WGA VIOLATION. Palladium
detected driver tilt-bit changes and Linux VM activity. HD scan in
progress to consolidate and transmit driver, system and kernel logs;
document and report disallowed activities and unapproved content.
Revocation clause has been invoked. Submit an explanation, and request an
application for a probationary key to reactivate MS's software at
1-425-4.#..8@
..

Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007, 10:38 PM
Notan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
> Todd H. wrote:
>
>> His views clearly demonstrate that he is fairly insulated from the
>> diversity of real world users and real world systems used in modern
>> corporations, and has correspondingly myopic views on what's useful
>> and not useful in terms of mitigating risk for a general userbase.

>
> Isn't it usually me that usually points out how your schemes would fail
> exactly because of considering how the real world users behave?
>
> Anyway, this is getting OT. Personal discussion, as discussions about
> persons are, rather belong to the medium E-Mail.


Interesting.

You're free to insult people, in a public forum, when you feel they're
wrong (in other words, when they have a different opinion than you),
but personal attacks, directed towards you, should be done in a more
private venue.

--
Notan

Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007, 10:52 PM
Todd H.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Sebastian Gottschalk <seppi@seppig.de> writes:
> You may want to differ between a discussion on a certain topic between
> opposing persons, and a discussion about a person himself in context of a
> previous discussion about a topic. Since the sub-thread starting at
> <news:tzPth.20615$KQ2.15256@newsfe6-win.ntli.ne> you should have notice the
> difference.


Sebastian, you're practically a celebrity here! You're a legend!

You've got some extreme views on things dismissing them as "worthless"
yet somehow they're extremely popular standard precautions (AV + some
sort off desktop firewall software) used by every IT firm in the
Fortune 100 including those offering security services themselves.

So we're left with a few options:

o you're brilliant, have stumbled on a truth that everyone
else is getting wrong,and they're all wasting their money

o your views border on "chicken little, kook" and are well out
in the weeds, flying in the face of convention, but that
works for you because you never actually have to work in an
landscape such as a corporate IT environment

The topic is ripe for public discussion because it speaks to whether
folks should just killfile you and dismiss your arguments entirely.


--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007, 11:04 PM
JAB
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Roger Parks wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:51:38 -0500, Todd H. <comphelp@toddh.net> wrote:
>
>> JAB <nochance@nohope.com> writes:
>>
>>> He seems "like a reasonably intelligent guy" ... well if you read his
>>> posts you'll soon change you opinion. He has no concept of actually
>>> accessing risks in terms of security.

>
> Well, your last sentence - accessing risks (the consequence of a
> potential loss and likelihood of compromise) in terms of (costs and)
> security - is exactly what is needed for most users, but you're the
> first visitor I've seen here who actually wants to consider such things.
>
> Most people seem to want pat, one liners and no thinking required.
>


Well that's what security is all about after all - not is it secure but
is it secure enough.

Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2007, 12:00 AM
Todd H.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Sebastian Gottschalk <seppi@seppig.de> writes:

> Todd H. wrote:
>
> > Sebastian Gottschalk <seppi@seppig.de> writes:
> >> You may want to differ between a discussion on a certain topic between
> >> opposing persons, and a discussion about a person himself in context of a
> >> previous discussion about a topic. Since the sub-thread starting at
> >> <news:tzPth.20615$KQ2.15256@newsfe6-win.ntli.ne> you should have notice the
> >> difference.

> >
> > Sebastian, you're practically a celebrity here! You're a legend!

>
> And you're a fool who really doesn't understand what a "Followup-To:
> poster" is good for.


I noticed it, processed it, deleted it.

> (And I'm the fool who doesn't set up a proper default filter for threads
> ending in a fup2p. Sure, there are exception, but they're rare.)
>
> > You've got some extreme views on things dismissing them as "worthless"
> > yet somehow they're extremely popular standard precautions (AV + some
> > sort off desktop firewall software) used by every IT firm in the
> > Fortune 100 including those offering security services themselves.

>
> What a ********.
>
> 1. Which Fortune 100 company uses some sort of desktop firewalls?


There are many! The ones I'm most involved with I'm under NDA with so
I can't say those specifically, but here's one public source
indicating Novell and EDS as Zonelabs Integrity Desktop clients:

http://www.zonelabs.com/store/conten...try=US&lang=en

Symantec's personal firewall is also out there in numbers in very
large corporate environments. Do you think they'll rely solely on a
thoroughly non-centrally-configurable windows firewall for their
laptop wielding road warriors who are connected in a variety of
situations that aren't totally controllable?

This all makes me wonder what environments you're working in where
this is actually news to you.

> 2. Which Fortune 100 company uses virus scanners which are utilized and
> administrated by the clueless users instead of competent administrators?
> And which one relies on it as a protective rather than an inflating measure
> (which it simply is)?


Probably none/few. Central administration of av updates is the order
of the day. I challenge you to find one company that subscribed to
the Sebastian "we don't need no steekin AV, it's ineffective"
Sebastian way.

And clueful companies also know that AV doesn't eliminate the malware
risk--it merely mitigates a percentage of the threats, and provides a
means of logging known threats that do get detected.

But your nice strawman argument is duly noted.

> 3. Which Fortune 100 company has an IT environment that is way less messy
> than almost any other company network? Being a Fortune 100 doesn't
> make them any more special and especially doesn't imply that their
> IT environment would be superior in any way, just because they're
> economically successful.


You may have missed that I qualified it to be _IT_ companies that are
in the Fortune 100. They didn't get there by being Very Wrong about IT
matters.

The point is: large number of IT companies' practices, and consultants
for them who have measurable business success in the field vs a guy
named Sebastian who says AV and desktop firewall products are
worthless because they can be evaded.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2007, 12:38 AM
JAB
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
> JAB wrote:
>
>>> Well, your last sentence - accessing risks (the consequence of a
>>> potential loss and likelihood of compromise) in terms of (costs and)
>>> security - is exactly what is needed for most users, but you're the
>>> first visitor I've seen here who actually wants to consider such things.
>>>
>>> Most people seem to want pat, one liners and no thinking required.
>>>

>> Well that's what security is all about after all - not is it secure but
>> is it secure enough.

>
> If you can get more security than your "just enough" level for free or even
> with additional simplifications, you'd normally choose to agree.
>
> Thus, let's better say that security is about a delicate balance between
> policy and usability (and cost). And, of course, reliability, which seems
> to be ignored by most people here.


What are you on about now ... the goal is to get the security that is
required. Have you ever actually worked in a security environment?

Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 05:00 AM
Seniors Guide to Computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

If you have a router, a software firewall is of little value.
http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com


"Dickie Peters" <ferrante276-ng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9978r2pskvrfebi6sh79gm78tqoughrq36@4ax.com...
> Is a software firewall such as Zone Alarm essential for added
> protection if I am already using the XP firewall, AVG antivirus (free)
> and have a wired router (D-link-524)? Will it offer me any additional
> protection? If so, is there a better free firewall than Zone alarm?
>
> Thanks.




Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 04:07 PM
Ertugrul Soeylemez
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

"Seniors Guide to Computers" <jeff@seniorsguidetocomputers.com> (07-02-11 00:00:08):

> If you have a router, a software firewall is of little value.
> http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com


Many so-called `modern' routers contain nasty security flaws, which
might be exploitable remotely. That of course doesn't mean that your
host is necessarily compromised as well, but at least this gives a
direct channel to it.


Regards,
E.S.

Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007, 05:23 AM
Seniors Guide to Computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Not if they're configured correctly.

http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com


"Ertugrul Soeylemez" <usenet@streitmacht.eu> wrote in message
news:eqneve$e1t$03$1@news.t-online.com...
> "Seniors Guide to Computers" <jeff@seniorsguidetocomputers.com> (07-02-11
> 00:00:08):
>
>> If you have a router, a software firewall is of little value.
>> http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com

>
> Many so-called `modern' routers contain nasty security flaws, which
> might be exploitable remotely. That of course doesn't mean that your
> host is necessarily compromised as well, but at least this gives a
> direct channel to it.
>
>
> Regards,
> E.S.




Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:30 AM
Seniors Guide to Computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

1. Turn off plug and play.
2. Change password
3. Change broadcast ID.
4. Enable WAP with a strong password.
5. Limit the number DCHP users.

http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com


"B. Nice" <b__nice@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pig1t2hhop7kfb8m2mvi6snuqlfruo89pm@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:23:38 -0500, "Seniors Guide to Computers"
> <jeff@seniorsguidetocomputers.com> wrote:
>
>>Not if they're configured correctly.

>
> And what does that mean?
>
>>
>>http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com
>>
>>
>>"Ertugrul Soeylemez" <usenet@streitmacht.eu> wrote in message
>>news:eqneve$e1t$03$1@news.t-online.com...
>>> "Seniors Guide to Computers" <jeff@seniorsguidetocomputers.com>
>>> (07-02-11
>>> 00:00:08):
>>>
>>>> If you have a router, a software firewall is of little value.
>>>> http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com
>>>
>>> Many so-called `modern' routers contain nasty security flaws, which
>>> might be exploitable remotely. That of course doesn't mean that your
>>> host is necessarily compromised as well, but at least this gives a
>>> direct channel to it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> E.S.

>>




Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:31 AM
Seniors Guide to Computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Exactly. Most spyware worth it's salt will disable your software firewall
anyway.

http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com


"Jim Watt" <jimwatt@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:oud1t2p4ff57eojddha20f4lpr1dp6s3v3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 00:00:08 -0500, "Seniors Guide to Computers"
> <jeff@seniorsguidetocomputers.com> wrote:
>
>>If you have a router, a software firewall is of little value.

>
> Rubbish
>
> A firewall gives you control of what goes out. Most routers
> simply provide NAT which controls what comes in effectively.
> --
> Jim Watt
> http://www.gibnet.com




Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:34 AM
Seniors Guide to Computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

Most "good" spyware will disable your software firewall anyway, hence one
star.

http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com


"B. Nice" <b__nice@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3si1t2hjuogeo23v87ai6c0i30qumv9jl8@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 00:00:08 -0500, "Seniors Guide to Computers"
> <jeff@seniorsguidetocomputers.com> wrote:
>
>>If you have a router, a software firewall is of little value.
>>http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com

>
> On your website under software firewalls you rate the windows firewall
> with 4 stars when used together with a router, but only with 1 star
> when used without one.
>
> I would like to understand the reasoning behind that conclusion.




Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2007, 01:34 AM
Seniors Guide to Computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

What wrong assumptions?

http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com


"Sebastian Gottschalk" <seppi@seppig.de> wrote in message
news:53c3itF1rjkumU1@mid.dfncis.de...
> B. Nice wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 00:00:08 -0500, "Seniors Guide to Computers"
>> <jeff@seniorsguidetocomputers.com> wrote:
>>
>>>If you have a router, a software firewall is of little value.
>>>http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com

>>
>> On your website under software firewalls you rate the windows firewall
>> with 4 stars when used together with a router, but only with 1 star
>> when used without one.
>>
>> I would like to understand the reasoning behind that conclusion.

>
> You can conclude anything from wrong assumptions.




Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2007, 04:56 AM
Seniors Guide to Computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Is Firewall essential in this case?

How? What do you mean, how?
The spyware is coded to do it.

http://www.seniorsguidetocomputers.com



"Sebastian Gottschalk" <seppi@seppig.de> wrote in message
news:53cqktF1rmavsU1@mid.dfncis.de...
> Seniors Guide to Computers wrote:
>
>> Most "good" spyware will disable your software firewall anyway, hence one
>> star.

>
> How should that work? Especially for Windows Firewall?




Reply With Quote
Reply


« Microsoft Word doc encryption | what's this »
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is the CPU too hot? happymac.support@gmail.com alt.comp.hardware 62 04-02-2007 01:33 AM
Need suggestions for case fan placement! andymion alt.comp.hardware 2 01-11-2007 05:32 PM
turbulent flow not bad for cooling Timothy Daniels alt.comp.hardware 112 10-18-2006 08:02 AM
best practices to secure home's network strutsng@gmail.com alt.internet.wireless 31 10-14-2005 11:22 AM
The Sidewinder G2 Security Appliance includes the only firewall that has never had a CERT advisory posted against it Ipeefreely alt.computer.security 5 10-08-2005 10:15 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:41 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45