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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2005, 03:18 PM
nurp@pbworld.com
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Default 900 MHz waverider & ISP problems

Hello All,

I am currently using a waverider EUM3000 and running into issues where
I lose my signal on and off. I am having problems pin-pointing the
items that are causing interferences.

When aligning my antenna I can achieve about 77+/- dbm but can never
get it to stick/stay constantly. It will be working good but then
numerous times throughout the day it drops in and out.

I do have a lot of trees by me but I have put together a tower that
should be putting me above the tree line.

I was under the impression that it had to be something on the ISP side
but they claim not to be causing any problems and I am just not
sure...so I thought that I might ask around about things that could be
causing my problems.

Any information is greatly appreciated.
Thanks


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2005, 05:12 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: 900 MHz waverider & ISP problems

On 15 Jul 2005 07:18:53 -0700, nurp@pbworld.com wrote:

>I am currently using a waverider EUM3000 and running into issues where
>I lose my signal on and off. I am having problems pin-pointing the
>items that are causing interferences.


How about some numbers?
Range to access point?
Type of antennas in use?
Length of coax run (if any)?
Approximate path profile (how bad is the line of sight ignoring the
trees)?
Extra credit... Exact lat-long and antenna height of both ends so I
can calculate the fade margin.
| http://support.waverider.com/dmfiles...opTest_r2.pdf?
I wouldn't expect you to actually peform this test, but the calcs can
be done with sufficient information.

>When aligning my antenna I can achieve about 77+/- dbm but can never
>get it to stick/stay constantly. It will be working good but then
>numerous times throughout the day it drops in and out.


What makes you think it's interference and not multipath? I think
(not sure) that -77dBm is a fair signal stength. However, if it's
varying all over the place, my guess(tm) is that you have either more
than one path between your EUM and the CCU, or that the trees in
between are moving in the wind. I don't have any experience with
Waverider, but I sure have had some with 900MHz in the forests with
Metricom. Getting the signal to stay put was a big problem as the
path through the forest was never direct. 900MHz would go though the
branches but not the trunks. Put enough trunks in the way and nothing
would work. Tree trunks swaying in the wind would open vertical
"slots", which would dramatically improve propagation for a few
seconds, and then die as the trunk swayed the other way. The only
solution was to get as much gain as possible at the client side
antenna and hope for the best. Moving the antenna around was also
useful, but was by no means a guaranteed solution.

>I do have a lot of trees by me but I have put together a tower that
>should be putting me above the tree line.


How many trees in a "lot"? How many miles of trees are you trying to
penetrate? What type of tree? Thick forest or thin? Ignoring the
trees, do you have line of sight or is there a hill, mountain,
building, or something in the way?

>I was under the impression that it had to be something on the ISP side
>but they claim not to be causing any problems and I am just not
>sure...so I thought that I might ask around about things that could be
>causing my problems.


Good plan. I like to do the numbers first, before doing the field
trip. Calculate the line of sight and the fade margin first.

Take your EUM and go for a drive. Get a 117VAC inverter for your
vehicle, a laptop, perhaps a spare antenna, and take it to some place
with a clear line of sight to the CCU at approximately your
unspecified range. Duz it work? Is it stable? If not, there's
something broken in your EUM. It's probably not the CCU or there
would be a rioting mob of irate customers at the ISP's door.

If that works, put some trees in the way, but no mountains or hills.
Just trees. Duz it still work? Monitor your signal strength. Is it
stable? Keep going until it craps out. Is it about the same as your
location or farther?


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2005, 06:22 PM
nurp
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Default Re: 900 MHz waverider & ISP problems

Thanks for you reply.

The base station is probably no more than 100' and I am around 60'.
I am using a yagi antenna, not sure about the gain (maybe 14 db)...the
cable is between 50' or 60'.
The tallest tree I have by me is probably around 60' & I should be well
under 3 miles away.
There are no buildings, hill or mountians in the path just a large
amount of trees, maybe about the size of several city blocks or so.

I might already have the lat/long and I guess I can take a drive this
weekend.

Thanks for your help.


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2005, 02:11 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: 900 MHz waverider & ISP problems

On 15 Jul 2005 10:22:52 -0700, "nurp" <nurp@pbworld.com> wrote:

>The base station is probably no more than 100' and I am around 60'.


I guess that's the altitude. Could I trouble you for the distance?

>I am using a yagi antenna, not sure about the gain (maybe 14 db)


How many elements and I'll calculate the gain.

>...the
>cable is between 50' or 60'.


Ouch. Might be very lossy that long. What type of cable? If
unavailable, measure the diameter.

>The tallest tree I have by me is probably around 60' & I should be well
>under 3 miles away.
>There are no buildings, hill or mountians in the path just a large
>amount of trees, maybe about the size of several city blocks or so.


That's not too horrible. However, I have no idea how big is a city
block. I live in a rural area. Can we do this in calculateable units
of measure, please?

Don't forget that wireless requires more than an optical line of
sight. The Fresnel zone is considerably wider at midpoint at 900MHz
than optical. That can be calculated once you supply the missing
distance. If the Fresnel zone hits the ground, you're in trouble.

>I might already have the lat/long and I guess I can take a drive this
>weekend.


With the exact lat-long, I can use a program called "Radio-Mobile" to
plot the path profile. Your Waverider dealer should also be capeable
of calculating the fade margin and doing a path profile.

>Thanks for your help.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# jeffl@cruzio.com AE6KS

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