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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2007, 07:23 PM
Jerry and Ce
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Default Advice appreciated to go wireless

Daughter has just split from boyfriend and moved back in with her PC.
I want to enable her PC to use our Freeserve/BT line broadband.
Wireless seems easiest.
Currently connected through Speedtouch ADSL modem.
Any advice please on cheapest easiest way to get her PC online from other
side of house.
What kit do I need?
Package deal anywhere?
Thanks.
Jerry


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2007, 08:17 PM
Raul
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Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

On Mar 14, 2:23 pm, "Jerry and Ce" <j...@alfa164.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> Daughter has just split from boyfriend and moved back in with her PC.
> I want to enable her PC to use our Freeserve/BT line broadband.
> Wireless seems easiest.
> Currently connected through Speedtouch ADSL modem.
> Any advice please on cheapest easiest way to get her PC online from other
> side of house.
> What kit do I need?
> Package deal anywhere?
> Thanks.
> Jerry


Tell the fornicator to go buy a 802.11G router/switch and 80.211G USB
client card.


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2007, 08:55 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:23:43 -0000, "Jerry and Ce"
<jerry@alfa164.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in <et9eji$ct5$1@aioe.org>:

>Daughter has just split from boyfriend and moved back in with her PC.
>I want to enable her PC to use our Freeserve/BT line broadband.
>Wireless seems easiest.
>Currently connected through Speedtouch ADSL modem.
>Any advice please on cheapest easiest way to get her PC online from other
>side of house.
>What kit do I need?
>Package deal anywhere?


If there are multiple wills involved, consider powerline (mains)
networking of a wired router instead, which does a better job of going
through multiple walls; e.g., NETGEAR XE102G (kit of two adapters).

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:29 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:

>On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:23:43 -0000, "Jerry and Ce"
><jerry@alfa164.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in <et9eji$ct5$1@aioe.org>:
>
>>Daughter has just split from boyfriend and moved back in with her PC.
>>I want to enable her PC to use our Freeserve/BT line broadband.
>>Wireless seems easiest.
>>Currently connected through Speedtouch ADSL modem.
>>Any advice please on cheapest easiest way to get her PC online from other
>>side of house.
>>What kit do I need?
>>Package deal anywhere?


>If there are multiple wills involved, consider powerline (mains)
>networking of a wired router instead, which does a better job of going
>through multiple walls; e.g., NETGEAR XE102G (kit of two adapters).


Agreed. Going through more than 1 wall can be a problem, especially
if there is aluminium foil backed insulation inside the walls. That's
what got me today, when I installed a new 2-wire modem/router/wireless
box. The house was divided roughly into thirds, each seperated by a
wall full of aluminium foil. With the wireless access point at one
end of the house, I would get 54Mbits/sec in the same room,
11Mbits/sec in the adjacent rooms, and 1 or 2 Mbits/sec or nothing at
the other end of the house. I'll be back tomorrow to install power
line networking as this wireless installation isn't going to work.

Power Line networking:
<http://www.homeplug.com>

Also, phone line networking:
<http://www.homepna.com>

Also, CATV coax sharing:
<http://www.coaxsys.com>
<http://www.multilet.com>
<http://www.mocalliance.org> (sorta, maybe)

Incidentally, Netgear has some products newer than the XE102G. See:
<http://www.netgear.com/Products/PowerlineNetworking/PowerlineEthernetAdapters.aspx>
I might try them to see how they work.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 05:24 AM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:29:28 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<scehv21f2um62oj5ieumf7usri26k1n7e8@4ax.com>:

>John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>
>>On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:23:43 -0000, "Jerry and Ce"
>><jerry@alfa164.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in <et9eji$ct5$1@aioe.org>:
>>
>>>Daughter has just split from boyfriend and moved back in with her PC.
>>>I want to enable her PC to use our Freeserve/BT line broadband.
>>>Wireless seems easiest.
>>>Currently connected through Speedtouch ADSL modem.
>>>Any advice please on cheapest easiest way to get her PC online from other
>>>side of house.
>>>What kit do I need?
>>>Package deal anywhere?

>
>>If there are multiple wills involved, consider powerline (mains)
>>networking of a wired router instead, which does a better job of going
>>through multiple walls; e.g., NETGEAR XE102G (kit of two adapters).


>Incidentally, Netgear has some products newer than the XE102G. See:
><http://www.netgear.com/Products/PowerlineNetworking/PowerlineEthernetAdapters.aspx>
>I might try them to see how they work.


I've found them to work well, but they are considerably more expensive
than the older XE102G, and overkill for typical home users.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 10:31 AM
Jerry and Ce
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Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

Thanks for your help so far.
Walls are plasterboard with no foil, so would this
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...99397&doy=15m3
do the job?
Do I need anything else with it?
Is it 'plug and play' because I'm really not a PC expert.
Jerry


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 02:20 PM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 07:57:45 -0500, Peabody
<waybackNO784SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in <epbKh.13$s8.6@newsfe21.lga>:

>Jeff Liebermann says...
>
> > Agreed. Going through more than 1 wall can be a
> > problem, especially if there is aluminium foil backed
> > insulation inside the walls. That's what got me today,
> > when I installed a new 2-wire modem/router/wireless box.
> > The house was divided roughly into thirds, each
> > seperated by a wall full of aluminium foil. With the
> > wireless access point at one end of the house, I would
> > get 54Mbits/sec in the same room, 11Mbits/sec in the
> > adjacent rooms, and 1 or 2 Mbits/sec or nothing at the
> > other end of the house. I'll be back tomorrow to
> > install power line networking as this wireless
> > installation isn't going to work.

>
>Is there any reason to believe that the slightly-pre-N
>wireless stuff would overcome the wall problem?


Possibly. Likewise high-gain antenna(s). But the only real way to tell
is to actually try it.

>Also, for what it's worth, my Buffalo HP G router does
>regular stud/wallboard walls (no foil) pretty well.


One, sure, but this thread is "other side of the house", which I take to
be multiple walls.

>The
>laptop just has a regular G card. I suppose it would do
>even better with an HP card.


Probably, because you have a HP router.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 02:40 PM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:31:26 -0000, "Jerry and Ce"
<jerry@alfa164.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in <etb3pl$sk0$1@aioe.org>:

>Thanks for your help so far.
>Walls are plasterboard with no foil, so would this
>http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...99397&doy=15m3
>do the job?
>Do I need anything else with it?
>Is it 'plug and play' because I'm really not a PC expert.


That (piss poor) web page doesn't provide much information,
but it looks to be the Buffalo WBMR-KG54
<http://www.buffalo-technology.com/products/product-detail.php?productid=174&categoryid=7>

Buffalo is good gear, about as easy as it gets, but USB dongles have
crappy antennas, and you may need a better antenna given distance and
walls. Higher power at _both_ ends might help.

Also, I generally recommend against combo products (ADSL modem +
wireless router) because of inflexibility -- better to use a regular
wireless router with your existing ADSL modem.

So instead I'd recommend:
* WHR-HP-G54 high-power wireless router
<http://www.buffalo-technology.com/products/product-detail.php?productid=124&categoryid=28>
* WLI-TX4-G54HP high-power wireless Ethernet converter [client bridge]
<http://www.buffalo-technology.com/products/product-detail.php?productid=127&categoryid=28>
(connects to remote PC by means of Ethernet network port)

Only go with the kit you found if it's readily returnable.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 04:49 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

Peabody <waybackNO784SPAM44@yahoo.com> hath wroth:

>Is there any reason to believe that the slightly-pre-N
>wireless stuff would overcome the wall problem?


Your problem, my problem, or the original posters wall problem? Each
one is different, depending on what's in the walls. I'll answer in
reference to my problem. Please advise if this is not what you meant.

Methinks not. Real MIMO technology (i.e. Airgo) is great for reducing
the detrimental effects of multipath and reflections. These become
more signifigant as the signal is reduced. MIMO and other
technologies has to have a signal to work with and a shielded
aluminium foil wall is fairly impervious to 2.4GHz. The only signal
going through the walls was through two doorways, both at right angle
to primary coverage areas. RF does not like to turn corners. I could
have done it with leaky coax and multiple access points, but those
cost more than just running the CAT5 wires. The power line networking
solution is going to be a temporary until the owner can determine
where to locate the CAT5 ethernet end points.

While crawling under the house, I did find that the owner had run CATV
coax to all the rooms, but not installed wall outlets, apparently to
allow the option to locate the cable jack as needed. I may use the
coax to run 10base2 (Cheapernet) at 10mbits/sec, or some method of
coax sharing. Dunno yet.

A repeater at the junction of each of the 2 shield walls is another
option. It might work, but I suspect performance through 2ea
repeaters might be a bit flakey. I asked the owner for priorities and
was told that uptime and reliability was paramount. Never mind
convenience. I interpreted that to mean run CAT5 if necessary.

Incidentally, the house was custom built with fire control in mind.
The 3 sections of the house are isolated by heavily insulated
firewalls with metal cores in all the connecting doors. Were a fire
to start in one part of the house, it would be largely confined or
delayed in that part long enough for the sprinkler system to do its
job. Such construction is not very common in commodity housing, but
very popular in upscale custom houses.

There is a sort of basement and an attic where I could have tried
locating the wireless router. The problem is that both the floor and
ceiling also have foil backed fiberglass insulation. Bummer.

>Also, for what it's worth, my Buffalo HP G router does
>regular stud/wallboard walls (no foil) pretty well. The
>laptop just has a regular G card. I suppose it would do
>even better with an HP card.


I've installed several Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 wireless routers and had
great results with coverage in conventional (no foil in the walls)
type of houses. There was one story I related, where I had to punch a
hole in the foil insulation and string an antenna on the other side of
a wall seperating the house from the garage. Local construction codes
require a fire retarding wall (i.e. insulated) between the houe and a
connecting garage. In general, I don't use the stock antennas.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 05:00 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

"Jerry and Ce" <jerry@alfa164.freeserve.co.uk> hath wroth:

>Walls are plasterboard with no foil, so would this
>http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?...99397&doy=15m3
>do the job?


How many walls? Plasterboard (gypsum wallboard?) has a measureable
attenuation. There also seems to be a plague of foil backed fancy
wallpaper that I keep running into. Realistically, the only way
you're going to know is to try it. Whatever you buy, make sure it's
returnable.

>Do I need anything else with it?


I've never seen that particular unit and have no opinion. However, I
do like Johns recommendations of hardware. You'll also need a
seperate DSL modem.

>Is it 'plug and play' because I'm really not a PC expert.


Nothing in wireless is plug and play or this newsgroup wouldn't be
necessary. There's a certain amount of configuration that needs to be
done. Buffalo has AOSS for automatic setup for the SSID and
encryption key. That will save having to do exactly to configuration
steps, both of which are described in excruciating detail in the
documentation. If you approach this systematically, you should have
no trouble. Some hints:
1. Setup the DSL first. Plug your computer directly into the DSL
modem with a CAT5 ethernet cable and get it activated, running, and
tested.
2. Plug in the router. No wireless yet. Use a CAT5 ethernet cable.
if you have to drag your computer over to the router, do it. Setup
the router WAN connections per your ISP's instructions. Once you can
browse the internet, setup the wireless in the router:
SSID (system name)
Enable WPA-PSK encryption
Set a messy >20 characters pass phrase.
Set a router password.
3. Last, configure the wireless client radio to the same SSID,
encryption, etc.
4. Test for performance to make sure it's work. Move the PC over to
its designated location on the other end of the houes and try it.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-15-2007, 07:34 PM
Jerry and Ce
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Default Re: Advice appreciated to go wireless

tHANKS FOR THE ADVICE jOHN AND jEFF.
tHIS IS STARTING TO SOUND MUCH MORE THAN MY LEVEL OF COMPETENCE CAN DEAL
WITH.
May have to get someone else to do it.
I was hoping to substitute the router for my ADSL modem and plug the USB
thing into second PC and away we go.
Oh well......

Thanks again,
Jerry


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