Go Back   Wireless and Wifi Forums > News > Newsgroups > alt.internet.wireless
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2005, 07:30 PM
Agent777
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Article on Unsecured Networks

This guy seems to think it is OK to "poach" your neighbor's signal.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1842378,00.asp

The Right Analogy for Wireless Signal Spill
ARTICLE DATE: 08.01.05
By John C. Dvorak

We're starting to see more and more articles in local newspapers with
various slants on the fact that people are routinely poaching the
spillover signals coming from unprotected Wi-Fi networks. Some
researchers indicate that as many as two-thirds of Wi-Fi signals in the
U.S. are not secured by WEP or any sort of encryption or tunneling.

Since it doesn't really take much to secure a network, you can assume
that people do not mind you taking their Wi-Fi signals to do your
e-mail. What people probably would not appreciate would be you loading
up on porn or making terrorist threats on their dime with their IP
address. What to do?

First of all, if you want to share your signal, you are probably not
allowed to do so by your ISP agreement. But let's say you want to
anyway. What is needed is a system to do it properly, such as a splash
screen intercept and log-on of guest users, so you can at least have
some record of who is using the connection. This would also allow you to
do some monitoring of activity, in case the FBI comes knocking.

But let's face it, most people do not know that their signal is being
poached, and probably don't care. So why should so many people be
freaked out about it? With nearly 15 million Wi-Fi networks in the U.S.
and perhaps 10 million of them unsecured, how many nefarious acts are
being committed by poachers? Most people using these networks are doing
it for an e-mail hit or a Web site visit and not much more. Often
poachers simply use a neighbor's connection, and latching onto the
signal is just a way to save money. I know at least two people doing this.

The problem I have with this activity is with the way it is described—as
signal theft. I prefer to call it poaching. There is really nothing
being stolen. The other user is paying a flat fee, and the worst that
can happen is that his or her bandwidth takes a small hit for an
inconsequential moment.

"It's like leaving the house unlocked," I'm told. "Just because there is
no lock on the door doesn't mean you can walk in and take things." This
is one of the dopey analogies you have to listen to. The analogy is bad.
Walking into an unlocked home is not the same as hooking onto someone's
Wi-Fi signal that is being broadcast all over the neighborhood. For one
thing, no trespassing is being committed. The signal is being given to
you. It's more like the unlocked house having a sign on the door saying
"Welcome! Please enter!"— Continue reading...

Let's drop the house analogy and find something better and more
accurate. Here is what Wi-Fi spillage is like. Someone has a house and a
big lawn and a sprinkler system that is watering the lawn and spraying
the water into the street. You drive into the water spraying into the
street and use it to wash your car. Are you stealing the water? It's not
your water. Someone else paid for it and you are using it. Just like the
Wi-Fi signal.

One might argue that this isn't the same, since the bandwidth is reduced
when you poach a Wi-Fi signal. Okay, then let's take the analogy and say
that the water is not going into the street and down the sewer. The
sprinkler is spraying only a little bit past the lawn, onto the sidewalk
and the thin strip of lawn between the sidewalk and the curb. The
sidewalk is public property, and when you walk on the sidewalk you get
wet and keep that water from going to the grassy curb area. Is this
stealing the guy's water?

Maybe readers can come up with better and more apt analogies than this,
but this comes close. If you are being soaked by a hose, are you
stealing water? You didn't ask to be soaked. You didn't go turn on the
water yourself. You didn't run onto the lawn. How is the sprinkler
situation different from someone blasting 802.11 signals all over town?

The person who owns the signal has to be the responsible party. Grabbing
a nearby signal because it is being beamed into your house or car is
hardly the same as going into an unlocked residence and stealing the
silverware. And it's not hacking if the signal is not protected. In
fact, if I'm getting unprotected signals on my property from people
nearby, they're the ones who are trespassing! What if I do not want
these signals interfering with what I want to do?

The way I see it, if someone is shoving a signal down my throat like
that, I have every right to use it any way I want to as long, as I'm not
doing anything illegal. It's crazy to think that my using that intrusive
signal is illegal.

Discuss this article in the forums.

Go off-topic with John C. Dvorak here.

More John C. Dvorak:
Copyright (c) 2005 Ziff Davis Media Inc. All Rights Reserved.


Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2005, 04:11 AM
Floyd L. Davidson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Article on Unsecured Networks

Agent777 <Agent777@no-no-na.net> wrote:
>This guy seems to think it is OK to "poach" your neighbor's signal.
>
>http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1842378,00.asp
>
>The Right Analogy for Wireless Signal Spill
>ARTICLE DATE: 08.01.05
>By John C. Dvorak


I didn't read past that last line. Dvorak has always been
somewhat of a dufus. I guess he writes a good story, because
he's been making a living at it for a long time now. But he has
*never* been able to understand technical details, or the the
legal aspects for that matter.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2005, 03:27 PM
Agent777
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Article on Unsecured Networks

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

> I didn't read past that last line. Dvorak has always been
> somewhat of a dufus. I guess he writes a good story, because
> he's been making a living at it for a long time now. But he has
> *never* been able to understand technical details, or the the
> legal aspects for that matter.


You should have read it if just for chuckles. You missed these tidbits:

Here is what Wi-Fi spillage is like. Someone has a house and a big lawn
and a sprinkler system that is watering the lawn and spraying the water
into the street. You drive into the water spraying into the street and
use it to wash your car. Are you stealing the water? It's not your
water. Someone else paid for it and you are using it. Just like the
Wi-Fi signal.

And it's not hacking if the signal is not protected. In fact, if I'm
getting unprotected signals on my property from people nearby, they're
the ones who are trespassing!

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2005, 11:33 PM
frankdowling1@yahoo.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Article on Unsecured Networks



An article detailing the issues as it relates to " poaching" Satellite
TV.

http://www.iswatchingsatellitetvacrime.tk/



Agent777 wrote:
> Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
>
> > I didn't read past that last line. Dvorak has always been
> > somewhat of a dufus. I guess he writes a good story, because
> > he's been making a living at it for a long time now. But he has
> > *never* been able to understand technical details, or the the
> > legal aspects for that matter.

>
> You should have read it if just for chuckles. You missed these tidbits:
>
> Here is what Wi-Fi spillage is like. Someone has a house and a big lawn
> and a sprinkler system that is watering the lawn and spraying the water
> into the street. You drive into the water spraying into the street and
> use it to wash your car. Are you stealing the water? It's not your
> water. Someone else paid for it and you are using it. Just like the
> Wi-Fi signal.
>
> And it's not hacking if the signal is not protected. In fact, if I'm
> getting unprotected signals on my property from people nearby, they're
> the ones who are trespassing!



Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:48 AM
Floyd L. Davidson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Article on Unsecured Networks

Agent777 <Agent777@no-no-na.net> wrote:
>Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
>
>> I didn't read past that last line. Dvorak has always been
>> somewhat of a dufus. I guess he writes a good story, because
>> he's been making a living at it for a long time now. But he has
>> *never* been able to understand technical details, or the the
>> legal aspects for that matter.

>
>You should have read it if just for chuckles. You missed these tidbits:


Sounds like a classic Dvorak article, eh?

>Here is what Wi-Fi spillage is like. Someone has a house and a
>big lawn and a sprinkler system that is watering the lawn and
>spraying the water into the street. You drive into the water
>spraying into the street and use it to wash your car. Are you
>stealing the water? It's not your water. Someone else paid for
>it and you are using it. Just like the Wi-Fi signal.
>
>And it's not hacking if the signal is not protected. In fact, if
>I'm getting unprotected signals on my property from people
>nearby, they're the ones who are trespassing!


--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@apaflo.com

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2005, 06:43 PM
David Taylor
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Article on Unsecured Networks

<yawn>

> signal theft. I prefer to call it poaching. There is really nothing
> being stolen. The other user is paying a flat fee, and the worst that
> can happen is that his or her bandwidth takes a small hit for an
> inconsequential moment.


So lets say that the homeowner has a VoIP phone or two and is mid call
when some guy decides to jump on his wireless and upload a 5MB email at
full whack upstream.

Guess what might happen to the quality of the phone call and then tell
me that nobody is affected by this action.

> Let's drop the house analogy and find something better and more
> accurate. Here is what Wi-Fi spillage is like. Someone has a house and a
> big lawn and a sprinkler system that is watering the lawn and spraying
> the water into the street. You drive into the water spraying into the
> street and use it to wash your car. Are you stealing the water? It's not
> your water. Someone else paid for it and you are using it. Just like the
> Wi-Fi signal.


Yet another analogy that misses the point.


Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2005, 08:15 PM
Les
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Article on Unsecured Networks



--
Have a great day, except you spammers
To email, remove the obvious

.......
"Gordon" <gordonlr@DELETEswbell.net> wrote in message
news:qj64f1hb1b8cmujh50ftu9sc14nkovpplp@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:30:35 -0400, Agent777
> <Agent777@no-no-na.net> wrote:
>
> >This guy seems to think it is OK to "poach" your neighbor's signal.
> >
> >http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1842378,00.asp
> >
> >The Right Analogy for Wireless Signal Spill
> >ARTICLE DATE: 08.01.05
> >By John C. Dvorak
> >
> >We're starting to see more and more articles in local newspapers with
> >various slants on the fact that people are routinely poaching the
> >spillover signals coming from unprotected Wi-Fi networks. Some
> >researchers indicate that as many as two-thirds of Wi-Fi signals in the
> >U.S. are not secured by WEP or any sort of encryption or tunneling.
> >
> >Since it doesn't really take much to secure a network, UNFORTUNATELY I

CANNOT AGREE WITH THIS!! WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT MY NETWORK DID NOT HAVE
PROTECTION SET, I CALLED LINKSYS TECH SUPPORT FOR HELP WITH THEIR ROUTER.
THE FIRST GUY HAD ME DO A BUNCH OF THINGS, BUT THEN I COULD NOT ACCESS THE
INTERNET (EMAIL OR INTERNET EXPLORER). HE THEN HAD ME UNINSTALL MY LAPTOP
NETWORK CARD SOFTWARE AND THEN INSTALL IT AGAIN. AGAIN NO INTERNET
CONNECTION. SO, I CALLED TECH SUPPORT AGAIN AND THEY HAD ME DO A BUNCH OF
THINGS, BUT THIS TIME I STARTED GETTING A SEVERAL ERROR MESSAGES (LIKE
WIRELESS-G NOTEBOOK ADAPTER WLAN MONITOR 10038 SOCKET OPERATION ON NON
SOCKET) THE TECH THEN SAID THAT THIS WAS A WINDOWS PROBLEM AND I SHOULD
CONTACT MICROSOFT TECH SUPPORT. NOW FRUSTRATED, INSTEAD OF DOING THIS, I
DID A SYSTEM RESTORE WITH WINDOWS ME OPERATING SYSTEM AND THEN WAS ABLE TO
CONNECT TO THE INTERNET. I STILL DO NOT HAVE PROTECTION ON THE ROUTER, BUT
I AM AFRAID TO CONTRACT LINKSYS TECH SUPPORT, SINCE THEY ARE NOT MUCH HELP
AND I CAN HARDLY UNDERSTAND THEM SINCE THEY TALK TOO FAST.

you can assume
> >that people do not mind you taking their Wi-Fi signals to do your
> >e-mail.

What people probably would not appreciate would be you loading
> >up on porn or making terrorist threats on their dime with their IP
> >address. What to do?
> >

> I wonder how many of these unsecured home networks are the result
> of a failed attempt to set up WEP or WPA encryption and running
> into insurmountable problems. I have had this kind of problem in
> trying to set up a Linksys WAG54G ADSL Gateway, connecting my
> desktop and two other computers through its router to my phone
> line DSL service.
>
> This setup works very well until I try to set up some form of
> encryption, then it hangs and the two wireless computers are
> unable to hold the connection. With encryption activated, they
> can establish the connection after a reboot, and will work fine
> until they are idled for a while and go into sleep mode. When
> they come out of sleep mode the connection has been dropped and
> can not be re-established, except by re-booting, or keying in the
> pass phrase.
>
> My desktop computer, which is hard wired (Linksys EtherFast
> 10/100 LAN Card LNE100TX ver. 5.1) to the WAG54G ADSL Gateway
> works flawlessly, 24/7. The connection is fast and always ready.
>
> My laptop (Linksys WPC11 Wireless B Notebook Adapter) and my
> wife's kitchen computer (Linksys WMP54G v4 Wireless G PCI
> adapter) work fine if I do not set up any encryption protection.
> But, I can not get either of them to stay on-line if I activate
> any form of encryption. They work fine until they are allowed to
> go into sleep mode. Then, when they are brought out of sleep mode
> the connection will be down. They will show that they are
> connected to the Gateway with a very good signal strength, but
> the internet can not be found.
>
> All computers in this network are running Windows XP with the
> latest upgrades. They have more than ample memory and free disk
> space.




Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WiMAX Forum News, Weekly Clip Report March 22-29, 2007 badger_b@hotmail.com alt.internet.wireless 0 03-31-2007 01:14 AM
Call for Papers with Extended Deadline: 2007 International Conference on Wireless Networks (ICWN'07), June 25-28, 2007, USA A. M. G. Solo comp.security.misc 0 02-26-2007 08:44 PM
Don't fall victim to the 'Free Wi-Fi' scam Ablang alt.internet.wireless 5 02-04-2007 08:44 AM
Unsecured networks open door for hackers, spies miso@sushi.com alt.internet.wireless 6 01-06-2007 08:48 AM
Myopic Economist article: Skype and "How the internet killed the phone business" Valiant uk.telecom.voip 5 09-16-2005 04:11 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45