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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2007, 04:37 AM
timua92@gmail.com
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Default Best home network setup to allow for configuring ports

I've been trying to adjust my modem to forward connections on ports
6881-6890 for BitTorrent, but I don't think I have the best setup to
do it. In the modem firmware, I'm not sure what IP to forward the
ports to. I thought I should forward them to the router, and then
forward them to the computers. When I tried, the modem gave me an
error message saying the IP address that it forwards to needs to be in
the same subnet. I'm not sure if I was even on the right track or what
do to now. My network:

Internet > Modem > Wireless router > Various computers

Modem's IP: 192.168.0.1
Router's IP: 192.168.1.1
The computer's IPs are assigned manually, 192.168.1.20-40

Any suggestions?
--
Keith P


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2007, 05:08 AM
Kim Clay
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Default Re: Best home network setup to allow for configuring ports

On Sat, 04 Aug 2007 03:37:17 -0000, timua92@gmail.com wrote:

>I've been trying to adjust my modem to forward connections on ports
>6881-6890 for BitTorrent, but I don't think I have the best setup to
>do it. In the modem firmware, I'm not sure what IP to forward the
>ports to. I thought I should forward them to the router, and then
>forward them to the computers. When I tried, the modem gave me an
>error message saying the IP address that it forwards to needs to be in
>the same subnet. I'm not sure if I was even on the right track or what
>do to now. My network:
>
>Internet > Modem > Wireless router > Various computers
>
>Modem's IP: 192.168.0.1
>Router's IP: 192.168.1.1
>The computer's IPs are assigned manually, 192.168.1.20-40
>
>Any suggestions?


Sure :) The modem already should forward everything to the router. The
port forwarding should take place in the router. You probably will have
to assign a internal lan IP addr. to the computer you want to use for
BitTorrent.

Guessing, you are using DHCP for computer connections.
Either assign the BitTorrent computer a out-of-range (from DHCP) IP addr
(anything except 192.168.1.20-40), like 192.168.1.50, or you can go into
your routers DHCP server setup & assign a fixed lease for the BitTorrent
computer.

Then in the router do your port forwarding to this IP addr.

I'm kinda guessing as I have never used BitTorrent but if I'm wrong
someone will correct me :)

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2007, 09:56 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Best home network setup to allow for configuring ports

On Aug 3, 8:37 pm, timu...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been trying to adjust my modem to forward connections on ports
> 6881-6890 for BitTorrent, but I don't think I have the best setup to
> do it. In the modem firmware, I'm not sure what IP to forward the
> ports to. I thought I should forward them to the router, and then
> forward them to the computers. When I tried, the modem gave me an
> error message saying the IP address that it forwards to needs to be in
> the same subnet. I'm not sure if I was even on the right track or what
> do to now. My network:
>
> Internet > Modem > Wireless router > Various computers
>
> Modem's IP: 192.168.0.1
> Router's IP: 192.168.1.1
> The computer's IPs are assigned manually, 192.168.1.20-40
>
> Any suggestions?


Yep. Disclose your hardware manufacturers and model
numbers and you'll get a sane answer. You have what is
known as double NAT, which can be made to work, but
is generally a bad idea. My guess is that you have a
Speedstream 4100 DSL modem. If this is the case, you
need to put it into the "bridge mode". It's 2am and I
can't seem to find the instructions. As I recall, unplug
your router, plug your computer directly into the modem,
point a web browser to the modem, and change the
settings on the "PPP location" page to "bridge mode".
Ah, foundit:
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/sbc/3.1_Speedstream_5100
What will happen is that your DSL modem will no longer
be playing NAT, and you'll see routable IP addresses
in your unspecified model router on the WAN port.
Then, just port forward in the unspecified model router,
and all your stolen software and copyright violations
will be shared as expected. If my guess of your equipment
config is wrong, feel free to disclose the exact makers,
models, hardware version, and firmware versions.


> --
> Keith P




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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2007, 04:54 PM
timua92@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Best home network setup to allow for configuring ports

On Aug 4, 3:56 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us>
wrote:

> Disclose your hardware manufacturers and model
> numbers and you'll get a sane answer.


Modem model: Actiontec R1524SU
Firmware: 1.60.10.0.69

Router model: Linksys BEFW11S4
Firmware:1.50.10

> You have what is known as double NAT, which
> can be made to work, but is generally a bad idea.


I found an options to turn off NAT in the modem and router firmwares.
In the modem, it comes with some warnings about doing so, including,
"If you turn NAT off, you MUST specify a static route for your local
subnet." Before I try this out, what exactly will I need to put for
the local subnet? Also, it says, "Turning off NAT will open your modem
to outside intrusion, creating a security risk." Once I get this set
up, should the firewall in the modem be enough protection?
--
Keith P


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2007, 07:36 PM
seaweedsteve
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Default Re: Best home network setup to allow for configuring ports

On Aug 4, 3:56 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us>
wrote:

> You have what is
> known as double NAT, which can be made to work, but
> is generally a bad idea.



Go Jeff ! Back so soon!

This thread reminds me that we've had a double NAT since day-one and
I've been ignoring it. As I've mentioned before, we've got Sat
service with a Hughes DW7000 modem and the usual dynamic IP. Then we
have DD_WRT on the router.

Since the modem NAT cannot be turned off, should I turn off DD-WRT's
NAT in order to avoid double-NAT? I like to use P2P once in a while,
but it's not very important and having a firewall is. Other than
that, our network works fine on the internet.

Steve


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2007, 11:57 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Best home network setup to allow for configuring ports

On Aug 4, 8:54 am, timu...@gmail.com wrote:

I shouldn't have tried to answer any questions. Pain meds
have worn off and I feel a bit better than horrible. I'll try to
answer this one and go back into hiding.

> Modem model: Actiontec R1524SU
> Firmware: 1.60.10.0.69


<http://www.actiontec.com/support/broadband/1524su-1.html>
Looks like a router instead of just modem. I have the same
problem with the terminology for Efficient/Speedstream 5100b
and 4100 DSL modems. They claim to be modems, but because
they support NAT address translation, I would tend to call them
a router. This one has many more useful features, including
port forwarding, so it may be usable as a router.

There are two approaches to doing this. One is to setup the
BEFW11S4 as a wireless access point, instead of a router.
That way, you can your port forwarding in the Actiontec, and
the Linksys BEFW11S4 acts just as a simple wireless bridge.
See general instructions at:
<http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-
Fi_How_To#Use_a_wireless_router_as_a_wireless_acce ss_point>

The other way is the method you found in the Actiontek
instructions. Disable the router section of the Actiontek
and use the BEFW11S4 as a router.

There's a 3rd alternative. I consider the BEW11S4 v4 to be
rather obsolete and of generally poor reliability. Mine would
hang all the time. I'll guess yours is a v4 (look on the serial
number tag) by the firmware version. 1.50.10 is old. See:
<http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?
c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagename=US
%2FLayout&cid=1166859878881&pagename=Linksys%2FCom mon
%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=7888137314B19&displaypage=do wnload#versiondetail>
for update to 1.52.02. There's a slightly later version of
the firmware that was sent to me for testing. I must confess
that I haven't tried it. Bug me if you wanna try it.

> Router model: Linksys BEFW11S4
> Firmware:1.50.10
>
> > You have what is known as double NAT, which
> > can be made to work, but is generally a bad idea.


> I found an options to turn off NAT in the modem and router firmwares.
> In the modem, it comes with some warnings about doing so, including,
> "If you turn NAT off, you MUST specify a static route for your local
> subnet."


I don't understand what that means. I think they want to
make sure you can still administer the Actiontek modem/router
after turning it into a bridge. If there's a reset button, the worst
case is to just reset to defaults and try again.

> Before I try this out, what exactly will I need to put for
> the local subnet? Also, it says, "Turning off NAT will open your modem
> to outside intrusion, creating a security risk." Once I get this set
> up, should the firewall in the modem be enough protection?


Oh, that. They're assuming that you don't have a router and
are going to plug your PC direction into the Actiontec. That is
somewhat of a security problem as you don't have the added
protection of NAT. However, most computahs have software
firewalls, so it's not as horrible as it sounds. With your added
BEFW11s4 v4, it shouldn't be a problem.

Now that I've hit the limit of my strength, back to sleeping,
er... recovering.

Good luck.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2007, 12:10 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Best home network setup to allow for configuring ports

On Aug 4, 11:36 am, seaweedsteve <seaweedst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 4, 3:56 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us>
> wrote:
>
> > You have what is
> > known as double NAT, which can be made to work, but
> > is generally a bad idea.

>
> Go Jeff ! Back so soon!


Not really. Stupid me was still drugged and feeling just fine.
That was yesterday. Today, I'm little better than the walking
dead. My apologies for any incoherence and gibberish.

> This thread reminds me that we've had a double NAT since day-one and
> I've been ignoring it. As I've mentioned before, we've got Sat
> service with a Hughes DW7000 modem and the usual dynamic IP. Then we
> have DD_WRT on the router.
>
> Since the modem NAT cannot be turned off, should I turn off DD-WRT's
> NAT in order to avoid double-NAT? I like to use P2P once in a while,
> but it's not very important and having a firewall is. Other than
> that, our network works fine on the internet.


Nope. If you disarm NAT on the DD-WRT router, then you lose many
of the nifty features in DD-WRT. I think you actually can disarm NAT
in the DW7000, but I couldn't find the reference. I'm not at home or
in my office where I have piles of paper with this info. Look for
something
called the "bridge mode" in the setup pages.

The only real reason you don't want to have double NAT is if some
incoming application causes problems. H.323 VoIP will be a
big problem. I played with some beta level remote control program,
that wouldn't work through double NAT. There was some ham
radio software that didn't work. Worst case is you just
setup port forwarding twice, once in each box.




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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2007, 10:09 PM
seaweedsteve
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Default Re: Best home network setup to allow for configuring ports

On Aug 4, 6:10 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us>
wrote:


> Stupid me was still drugged and feeling just fine.
> That was yesterday. Today, I'm little better than the walking
> dead. My apologies for any incoherence and gibberish.
>


Aw...forget it then. Not important. Go back to bed. Watch a movie.
Eat some soup.

Anyway, I'll respond, but I don't need more answers. OK?


> Nope. If you disarm NAT on the DD-WRT router, then you lose many
> of the nifty features in DD-WRT.


Gotcha. That's what I was mostly curious about. The short answer
then, is "no, bad idea to mess with the DD-WRT NAT.


> I think you actually can disarm NAT
> in the DW7000, but I couldn't find the reference. I'm not at home or
> in my office where I have piles of paper with this info. Look for
> something
> called the "bridge mode" in the setup pages.


Nope. Not only could I not find such a thing, and I've been told by
others that it can't be turned off unless you get a static IP.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15106594
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rema...?hilite=bridge

>
> The only real reason you don't want to have double NAT is if some
> incoming application causes problems. H.323 VoIP will be a
> big problem. I played with some beta level remote control program,
> that wouldn't work through double NAT. There was some ham
> radio software that didn't work. Worst case is you just
> setup port forwarding twice, once in each box.


No port forwarding settings on a DW7000 either. The Hughes modems
have a ton of info in the interface, but very few settings can be
adjusted beyond the initial ranging setup (which I don't understand).

Anyway, thanks for the answer. Finish your matzah-ball soup and go
back to bed!

Cheers,
Steve


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