On 23 Jul 2006 08:32:03 -0700, "q23r" <q23r@mail.ru> wrote in
<1153668722.951354.32600@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups. com>:
>John Navas wrote:
>> <http://www.google.com/search?q=skype+pda+smartphone>
>
>Is skype can work without server?
>
>I want use voip over wifi without internet access!
How could that possibly work? Don't you want to talk to anyone outside
of the range of that one Wi-Fi LAN? If you do, traffic has to go over
the Internet.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
>I mean not only skype like software, but e.g. software wich is not
>required any server.
>Like voip for LAN.
Not possible. At some point, your VoIP data has to interface with the
PSTN (public switched telephone network). Someone has to supply this
gateway service. You can build your own FXS (foreign exchange switch)
or Asterisk switch at home, and tie up your home POTS line with phone
calls, but I don't think that's what you want.
>What do you think is the max disctance for moblie wifi devices which is
>good enough
>for voip?
About 300ft with a good directional antenna, line of sight, and no
interference. Perhaps 50ft with a typical office or coffee shop
environment. Forget about driving down the road yacking on your VoIP
phone.
John Navas wrote:
> How could that possibly work? Don't you want to talk to anyone outside
> of the range of that one Wi-Fi LAN?
Exactly, only within ragne of wifi lan.
> If you do, traffic has to go over the Internet.
Don't think i'm stupid. Sure i know it.
What i'm intrested in:
1) Is there any software for WM which makes direct voip calls.
2) What is the stable range of mobile wifi adapters.
On 23 Jul 2006 10:53:45 -0700, "q23r" <q23r@mail.ru> wrote in
<1153677224.975561.195270@75g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>:
>John Navas wrote:
>> How could that possibly work? Don't you want to talk to anyone outside
>> of the range of that one Wi-Fi LAN?
>Exactly, only within ragne of wifi lan.
Why not just talk face to face?
>> If you do, traffic has to go over the Internet.
>Don't think i'm stupid. Sure i know it.
>What i'm intrested in:
>1) Is there any software for WM which makes direct voip calls.
>2) What is the stable range of mobile wifi adapters.
A few hundred feet at most outdoors, less with intervening walls and/or
interference. I doubt that you'll have enough range to make it
practical. Consider FRS radios instead.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
On 23 Jul 2006 10:53:45 -0700, in alt.internet.wireless , "q23r"
<q23r@mail.ru> wrote:
>
>John Navas wrote:
>> How could that possibly work? Don't you want to talk to anyone outside
>> of the range of that one Wi-Fi LAN?
>Exactly, only within ragne of wifi lan.
>> If you do, traffic has to go over the Internet.
>Don't think i'm stupid. Sure i know it.
>What i'm intrested in:
>1) Is there any software for WM which makes direct voip calls.
>2) What is the stable range of mobile wifi adapters.
He means he wants an IP based intercom system.
Apparently, if you have something like a Grandstream Handytone 386,
you can dial from one computer to another on your LAN, using the IP
address as a phone number. Presumably the handytone firmware has a
servlet of some sort inside to route the traffic.
I've no idea if this works. I might be able to tell you in a couple of
days, I'm about to take delivery of said ATA.
--
Mark McIntyre
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:47:57 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<6uc7c2pm3ij5j25h7f5kd9923r83a7mmib@4ax.com>:
>... Forget about driving down the road yacking on your VoIP
>phone.
Until (unless?) mobile WiMAX becomes a reality.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:00:05 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:47:57 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
><jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
><6uc7c2pm3ij5j25h7f5kd9923r83a7mmib@4ax.com>:
>
>>... Forget about driving down the road yacking on your VoIP
>>phone.
>Until (unless?) mobile WiMAX becomes a reality.
I think he said that he wanted to call for free.
How much does free cost?
Mobile WiMax (802.16e) was ratified by the IEEE in Dec 2005. Now, all
WiMax needs is a proven revenue model, more spectrum than the almost
worthless 50MHz the FCC released on 3.65GHz, a major chipset or
handset manufactory interested in betting the company on WiMax, a
public willing to pay for the adventure (when they can get 802.11 VoIP
service almost for free), and sufficient infrastructure to compete
with conventional cellular coverage. There are WiMax system operating
today on 2.4 and 5.7GHz (mostly using Navini hardware). They're not
free and have the same interference problems as other 2.4GHz systems.
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:39:24 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<kaiac210kn2v91n3u6u5gad7c0e7gqvoeh@4ax.com>:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:00:05 GMT, John Navas
><spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:47:57 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
>><jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
>><6uc7c2pm3ij5j25h7f5kd9923r83a7mmib@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>... Forget about driving down the road yacking on your VoIP
>>>phone.
>
>>Until (unless?) mobile WiMAX becomes a reality.
>
>I think he said that he wanted to call for free.
I was just responding to your statement.
>How much does free cost?
Zero? More? Less? ;)
>Mobile WiMax (802.16e) was ratified by the IEEE in Dec 2005. Now, all
>WiMax needs is a proven revenue model, more spectrum than the almost
>worthless 50MHz the FCC released on 3.65GHz, a major chipset or
>handset manufactory interested in betting the company on WiMax, a
>public willing to pay for the adventure (when they can get 802.11 VoIP
>service almost for free), and sufficient infrastructure to compete
>with conventional cellular coverage. ...
I think the market for Mobile WiMAX is just as compelling as Wi-Fi, and
with that kind of force behind it, I'm pretty sure any obstacles will be
overcome. Time will of course tell.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>>How much does free cost?
>
>Zero? More? Less? ;)
There's no such thing as free. Someone eventually has to pay. Likely
candidates are municipalities, advertisers, coffee shops, corporate
sponsors, equipment manufacturers, and individuals.
>>Mobile WiMax (802.16e) was ratified by the IEEE in Dec 2005. Now, all
>>WiMax needs is a proven revenue model, more spectrum than the almost
>>worthless 50MHz the FCC released on 3.65GHz, a major chipset or
>>handset manufactory interested in betting the company on WiMax, a
>>public willing to pay for the adventure (when they can get 802.11 VoIP
>>service almost for free), and sufficient infrastructure to compete
>>with conventional cellular coverage. ...
>I think the market for Mobile WiMAX is just as compelling as Wi-Fi, and
>with that kind of force behind it, I'm pretty sure any obstacles will be
>overcome. Time will of course tell.
Compelling? Does that mean there's a demand for WiMax that can't be
satisfied with other technologies?
How will WiMax be sold? As an alternative to DSL/cable/satellite last
mile broadband connectivity, which seems to be what Intel is pushing?
There's not enough bandwidth to do that.
Perhaps as an alternative to Wi-Fi? I'll believe that when I see a
consumer WiMax access point (that's not a rack mount).
Perhaps as an adjunct to cellular or replacement for EV-DO? Sprint
announced in Feb 2005 that they will sell a conglomerated cellular and
WiMax handset. Then, nothing happened. I just don't see VoIP using
about 30KHz of raw packet switched data bandwidth, to do what could
what could be done with 8-12KHz of cellular circuit switched
bandwidth.
It's highly likely that if mobile data services become predominant
over voice services, then WiMax is the obvious technology to use. That
might actually happen, but at this time, I don't see it. Voice still
rules the airwaves.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> writes:
> Perhaps when and if Intel delivers on its WiMax roadmap of the month:
> Intel to Add WiMax to Handsets in 2007
> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1643796,00.asp
At one point I read that the wimax "dsl replacement" links would have
30watt transmitters.
"WiMax runs at as much as 30 watts, powering through walls with a
maximum range of 30 miles."
I've got to wonder how well a 30watt transmitter will work in the
average laptop. I can see this working well enough in a roof-mounted
system where power is available, but in a laptop where the power is
coming from a rather small battery, this is going to be a problem. I
understand there will be power control so transmitters won't waste
power whan talking to close by receivers. That is nice, but if the
whole stated advantage of wimax is that you can crank up the power to
go further, saying you have power control to turn down the power when
not needed is a cop-out. If people use their laptops to connect to a
distant wimax node, they will need to use considerable power. That
just begs the question, does wimax at the same power levels as wifi do
any better in terms of the distance it can cover at the same overall
throughput? Is there any throughput/watt advantage to wimax?
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:52:11 -0700, "Wolfgang S. Rupprecht"
<wolfgang+gnus20060725T112042@dailyplanet.dontspam .wsrcc.com> wrote in
<873bcpzfdw.fsf@bonnet.wsrcc.com>:
>
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> writes:
>> Perhaps when and if Intel delivers on its WiMax roadmap of the month:
>> Intel to Add WiMax to Handsets in 2007
>> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1643796,00.asp
>
>At one point I read that the wimax "dsl replacement" links would have
>30watt transmitters.
>
> http://www.slate.com/id/2106657/
>
> "WiMax runs at as much as 30 watts, powering through walls with a
> maximum range of 30 miles."
>
>I've got to wonder how well a 30watt transmitter will work in the
>average laptop. ...
This is for fixed WiMAX. Mobile WiMAX is different. Mobile laptop
transmitters won't need to be anywhere near that powerful.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 23:33:29 +0100, in alt.internet.wireless , Mark
McIntyre <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote:
>Apparently, if you have something like a Grandstream Handytone 386,
>you can dial from one computer to another on your LAN, using the IP
>address as a phone number. Presumably the handytone firmware has a
>servlet of some sort inside to route the traffic.
>
>I've no idea if this works. I might be able to tell you in a couple of
>days, I'm about to take delivery of said ATA.
To follow up my own post, the Grandstream Handytone series allow you
to do direct IP-to-IP dialling inside your LAN or outside it, if you
have suitable fw rules.
--
Mark McIntyre
"Wolfgang S. Rupprecht"
<wolfgang+gnus20060725T112042@dailyplanet.dontspam .wsrcc.com> hath
wroth:
>At one point I read that the wimax "dsl replacement" links would have
>30watt transmitters.
Groan. That's just like cell sites having 100 watt transmitters.
What's important is how many wants per channel (i.e. per user).
Typical for cellular is 1 watt per channel for 800MHz and I think a
bit more for 1900MHz PCS. Add in the antenna gain and it's about 10
watts per channel. The 30 watts for WiMax is probably the aggregate
power for the central access point.
> http://www.slate.com/id/2106657/
> "WiMax runs at as much as 30 watts, powering through walls with a
> maximum range of 30 miles."
>I've got to wonder how well a 30watt transmitter will work in the
>average laptop.
No problem as along as the optional air conditioning unit is
installed.
>That
>just begs the question, does wimax at the same power levels as wifi do
>any better in terms of the distance it can cover at the same overall
>throughput? Is there any throughput/watt advantage to wimax?
Yes, and yes. We have a local 2.4Ghz WiMax WISP operating from
Fremont Peak (and possibly Mt Toro) that does MUCH better at coverage
and reliability than other 2.4Ghz 802.11b/g WISPs on the same
mountains.
As for spectral efficiency, 802.11 is about 2.5 Mbits/sec/Hz, while
WiMax is 3.0 to 3.8 Mbits/sec/Hz. Variation is due to WiMax adaptive
modulation.
WiMax removes many of the gross inefficiencies found in 802.11. In
particular, timing issues that limited the maximum range of 802.11 are
largely eliminated. For example, the WiMax guard interval is about
1/8 the time of 802.11 and is adjustable. There's also automagic tx
power control which largely prevent interference from over powered
alligators and evil mesh wireless providers. 802.11 is stuck with
22MHz occupied bandwidth. WiMax can vary from 1 to 28MHz.
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>>I've got to wonder how well a 30watt transmitter will work in the
>>average laptop. ...
>This is for fixed WiMAX. Mobile WiMAX is different. Mobile laptop
>transmitters won't need to be anywhere near that powerful.
Navini's 2.4GHz Riptide MX wireless client radio is 1 watt max.
| http://www.navini.com/Website/assets..._Datasheet.pdf
Well, actually it's adjustable from -30dBm to +30dBm and probably
spends most of its time at well below the 1 watt maximum.
4Talk for Pocket PC released - walkie-talkie over Wi-Fi now possible !
Walkie-talkie over Wi-Fi! It is simply a brilliant idea: not all people
know that devices built-in Wi-Fi can communicate also with each other,
without Wi-Fi access point, and then with use of this software one can
make peer-to-peer voice calls over Wi-Fi!
On 2 Aug 2006 18:57:04 -0700, "q23r" <q23r@mail.ru> wrote in
<1154570224.062905.312030@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups .com>:
>They made it!!!!
>
>4Talk for Pocket PC released - walkie-talkie over Wi-Fi now possible !
>
>Walkie-talkie over Wi-Fi! It is simply a brilliant idea: not all people
>know that devices built-in Wi-Fi can communicate also with each other,
>without Wi-Fi access point, and then with use of this software one can
>make peer-to-peer voice calls over Wi-Fi!
>
>http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5440.html
Have fun. :) Reminds me of my daughter talking to her friend over
walkie talkie radios even though they could hear each other. I'll
personally just stroll over for a face to face chat.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
In article <55m2d25o04en9depsac9usvur3fgn8mh99@4ax.com>, John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>On 2 Aug 2006 18:57:04 -0700, "q23r" <q23r@mail.ru> wrote in
><1154570224.062905.312030@m79g2000cwm.googlegroup s.com>:
>
>>They made it!!!!
>>
>>4Talk for Pocket PC released - walkie-talkie over Wi-Fi now possible !
>>
>>Walkie-talkie over Wi-Fi! It is simply a brilliant idea: not all people
>>know that devices built-in Wi-Fi can communicate also with each other,
>>without Wi-Fi access point, and then with use of this software one can
>>make peer-to-peer voice calls over Wi-Fi!
>>
>>http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5440.html
>
>Have fun. :) Reminds me of my daughter talking to her friend over
>walkie talkie radios even though they could hear each other. I'll
>personally just stroll over for a face to face chat.
>
You just don't get into the spirit of Gee Wiz <wink />
Calling for free using wifi devices 
Linear Mode
