"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:dvjud3l0lfr6mbja70ugqufct87fpptjlr@4ax.com...
> Per Charles Newman:
>>You should change your priorities and put saving time ahead of
>>saving money.
>
> Bear in mind that it's a big world and not everybody has very
> much money.
>
> $30/month may be small change for some, but it's a lot of money
> for others.
> --
> PeteCresswell
Chew on this, when copper wiring is eventually replaced, dialup
will cease to work, and they people will have to choose a
broadband offering.
In comp.dcom.xdsl Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in part:
> Actually, I haven't heard it in quite that form. What I
> usually hear is something like, "broadband costs about
> 3 times as much as dialup. Will I get more than 3 times
> the fun/features/functionality on broadband as dialup?"
> I guess there are those that don't mind staring at the
> download indicator for 3 times as long.
If they download that much. My mom is still on dialup and
during a recent visit I found it perfectly adequate for her
low email volume and even my ssh sessions. It _is_ slow for
browsing today's heavyweight webpages. But she doesn't do
that more than a few times per week!
> A demonstration of fast browsing, online music, video,
> gaming, downloading, updates, and such are usually
> insufficient. What always gets their attention is Skype,
> GizmoProject, X-Lite or other VoIP phone.
She doesn't care about VoIP since she has excellent and inexpensive
voice service. My godmother is even worse: she has neither
computer nor any email account. I'm not sure she really needs them.
Her interests are her grandkids and I doubt the greater quantity
of traffic via email/IM would be any compensation of the loss of
emotional contact via voice and in-person. She doesn't have data to
transmit, and I don't think email would be "a way in". Kids aren't
very patient and [grand]parents a [necessary] intrusion.
In comp.dcom.xdsl Charles Newman <chuck@backtalkradio.net> wrote in part:
> Three words: > > Microsoft Seurity Updates
One word: overnight!
I don't use MS products personally, so I'm not sure but
I presume they can run unattended. When I had dialup 5+
years ago, I would occasionally download ISOs overnight.
In comp.dcom.xdsl Charles Newman <chuck@backtalkradio.net> wrote in part:
> Chew on this, when copper wiring is eventually replaced,
> dialup will cease to work, and they people will have to
> choose a broadband offering.
??? even most new (US & world) construction has copper to
the house. Very little FTC. POTS and dialup will be around
for a _very_ long time (50+ years). The justification to
replace it just isn't there [yet].
In article <v%TDi.49061$Um6.4682@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net >,
Robert Redelmeier <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> wrote:
> In comp.dcom.xdsl Charles Newman <chuck@backtalkradio.net> wrote in part:
> > Chew on this, when copper wiring is eventually replaced,
> > dialup will cease to work, and they people will have to
> > choose a broadband offering.
>
> ??? even most new (US & world) construction has copper to
> the house. Very little FTC. POTS and dialup will be around
> for a _very_ long time (50+ years). The justification to
> replace it just isn't there [yet].
>
> -- Robert
There was some rather nasty feedback on Verison actually removing
copper from the house if you used their Fiber to the Home service so you
couldn't change providers. Don't see any reason to think that will not
become an up and coming idea amongst others.
"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kurtullman-5EB5C9.10323206092007@032-478-847.area7.spcsdns.net...
> In article <v%TDi.49061$Um6.4682@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net >,
> Robert Redelmeier <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In comp.dcom.xdsl Charles Newman <chuck@backtalkradio.net> wrote in part:
>> > Chew on this, when copper wiring is eventually replaced,
>> > dialup will cease to work, and they people will have to
>> > choose a broadband offering.
>>
>> ??? even most new (US & world) construction has copper to
>> the house. Very little FTC. POTS and dialup will be around
>> for a _very_ long time (50+ years). The justification to
>> replace it just isn't there [yet].
>>
>> -- Robert
>
> There was some rather nasty feedback on Verison actually removing
> copper from the house if you used their Fiber to the Home service so you
> couldn't change providers. Don't see any reason to think that will not
> become an up and coming idea amongst others.
From the house, or from the outside plant.
I cannot see verizon going into people's homes to remove copper from private
homes.
Robert Redelmeier <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> hath wroth:
>In comp.dcom.xdsl Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in part:
>> Actually, I haven't heard it in quite that form. What I
>> usually hear is something like, "broadband costs about
>> 3 times as much as dialup. Will I get more than 3 times
>> the fun/features/functionality on broadband as dialup?"
>> I guess there are those that don't mind staring at the
>> download indicator for 3 times as long.
>If they download that much.
Like I said, we may be living on different planets. I once did some
"volunteer" work at a local retirement home. Setting up computahs,
giving lessons, and cleaning up the inevitable Windoze mess, was a big
part of the exercise.
At one point, an elderly couple in their 80's had received a rather
nice new machine from their daughter so they could "keep in touch". I
was assigned to install it and show them how it works. I did my usual
running lecture as I was setting it up, explaining everything, and
showing them all the nifty things that could be done with a computah.
They looked interested, but seemed a bit lost, with very few
questions. It seemed that they were looking for something.
After about 2 hours of this, I had to go to my next customer. I asked
if there were any questions. They nervously looked around to see if
anyone was listening and asked "Where is the porno"? Ok, so that's
what was missing. They had heard that the internet was full of vile
pornography, which was apparently the only reason they let their
daughter inflict the computer upon them. I gave them the tour of what
few X rated sites I could remember, came back a few days later to make
an image backup of the hard disk in case of infection, and welcomed
them to the national data information super highway. I installed
broadband about a year later.
Like I said, we must live on different planets.
>My mom is still on dialup and
>during a recent visit I found it perfectly adequate for her
>low email volume and even my ssh sessions. It _is_ slow for
>browsing today's heavyweight webpages. But she doesn't do
>that more than a few times per week!
My parents and most elderly relatives are long dead. However, I deal
with an older friend that is bed ridden and under medical house
arrest. I couldn't get him interested in anything on the computer
until I showed him how web cams work. With those, he could see his
old haunts, PTZ (pan tilt zoom) if available, and play virtual
tourist. It's not much, but its his connection to his former world.
He claims he doesn't use it much, but I can tell from the router
traffic logs that he's on the computer almost constantly. Needless to
say, he has broadband. The only problem is when the grand-brats come
over and play on the computer, which requires that I come over and
undo the damage.
There may also be some kind of fear of admitting that they like
computers involved. I've tried to give lectures and demos at the
local senior center on computer topics. Very few older people showed
up or seemed interested. Yet, within a few days after the lecture, I
would be buried in phone calls from them asking essentially what was
covered in my song-n-dance. My guess(tm) is that they don't want
anyone else to know that they might like, enjoy, need, or are
otherwise involved with computahs.
>She doesn't care about VoIP since she has excellent and inexpensive
>voice service.
Then you've simply demonstrate how a computer telephone operates. What
I've done is setup Skype or other VoIP client with a speakerphone (or
just computer speakers and an open microphone) to act more like an
intercom or voice chat room than a phone. The mic is always open, the
speakers live, and the connection up. Wanna talk? Just yell into the
microphone. Skype video gives a clue if anyone is there. They've
even played virtual baby sitter, although I've discouraged the
practice. Admitedly, not everyone is thrilled with the idea, but it
does have it's place. Of course, it requires a nailed up connection,
which can't be done with dialup.
I forgot to mention that I've also sold a few dedicated VoIP phones
and adapters, so that they don't have to use the computer to talk. For
some odd reason, these are not used as much as I would expect. Most
people tend to favor the computer for some odd reason.
>Her interests are her grandkids and I doubt the greater quantity
>of traffic via email/IM would be any compensation of the loss of
>emotional contact via voice and in-person.
Probably true if the grad-brats are fairly close. A computer is a bad
replacement for personal contact. However, the people I deal with
have families scattered all over the world. They see each other
perhaps every few years, usually at funerals and weddings. While
VoIP, IM, web cams, and such are a poor substitute for personal
contact, they'll do if nothing else is available. Incidentally, the
most difficult part of VoIP or video phones is convincing users that
they do NOT have to watch the clock and that they are NOT being billed
by the minute. For those that grew up with Ma Bell being the primary
method of communications, it's difficult for them to believe, and
often difficult for them to adapt.
>She doesn't have data to
>transmit, and I don't think email would be "a way in". Kids aren't
>very patient and [grand]parents a [necessary] intrusion.
I never even mentioned email. In some cases, I don't even bother
setting up email. The problem isn't the lack of bandwidth or personal
touch. It's the monumental amounts of spam that have effectively
ruined email for many light users. For those that want or must have
email, I subscribe them to an email anti-spam filtering service.
In article <ea7f7$46e02990$944e306e$17386@STARBAND.NET>,
"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:kurtullman-5EB5C9.10323206092007@032-478-847.area7.spcsdns.net...
> > In article <v%TDi.49061$Um6.4682@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net >,
> > Robert Redelmeier <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> In comp.dcom.xdsl Charles Newman <chuck@backtalkradio.net> wrote in part:
> >> > Chew on this, when copper wiring is eventually replaced,
> >> > dialup will cease to work, and they people will have to
> >> > choose a broadband offering.
> >>
> >> ??? even most new (US & world) construction has copper to
> >> the house. Very little FTC. POTS and dialup will be around
> >> for a _very_ long time (50+ years). The justification to
> >> replace it just isn't there [yet].
> >>
> >> -- Robert
> >
> > There was some rather nasty feedback on Verison actually removing
> > copper from the house if you used their Fiber to the Home service so you
> > couldn't change providers. Don't see any reason to think that will not
> > become an up and coming idea amongst others.
>
> From the house, or from the outside plant.
> I cannot see verizon going into people's homes to remove copper from private
> homes.
From the street to the door. Of course that is basically the same
thing as depriving one of copper, even if it remains in the house
itself.
"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kurtullman-95AC70.12553106092007@032-478-847.area7.spcsdns.net...
> In article <ea7f7$46e02990$944e306e$17386@STARBAND.NET>,
> "Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:kurtullman-5EB5C9.10323206092007@032-478-847.area7.spcsdns.net...
>> > In article <v%TDi.49061$Um6.4682@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net >,
>> > Robert Redelmeier <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In comp.dcom.xdsl Charles Newman <chuck@backtalkradio.net> wrote in
>> >> part:
>> >> > Chew on this, when copper wiring is eventually replaced,
>> >> > dialup will cease to work, and they people will have to
>> >> > choose a broadband offering.
>> >>
>> >> ??? even most new (US & world) construction has copper to
>> >> the house. Very little FTC. POTS and dialup will be around
>> >> for a _very_ long time (50+ years). The justification to
>> >> replace it just isn't there [yet].
>> >>
>> >> -- Robert
>> >
>> > There was some rather nasty feedback on Verison actually removing
>> > copper from the house if you used their Fiber to the Home service so
>> > you
>> > couldn't change providers. Don't see any reason to think that will not
>> > become an up and coming idea amongst others.
>>
>> From the house, or from the outside plant.
>> I cannot see verizon going into people's homes to remove copper from
>> private
>> homes.
>
> From the street to the door. Of course that is basically the same
> thing as depriving one of copper, even if it remains in the house
> itself.
OK. While you are correct that removing the copper plant is not warranted,
incumbent telcos are facing competition from Cable companies, and even Wimax
and Cellular systems are now giving increasing competition pressures to the
local phone companies. Of course this is a benefit to the local people.
In comp.dcom.xdsl Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in part:
> anyone was listening and asked "Where is the porno"? Ok, so that's
[snip]>
> Like I said, we must live on different planets.
No, we live on the same planet, but there's an incredible
amount of diversity. "Broadband is good for all" might fit
more people than "broadband is good for none" but that still
doesn't make it right for everyone.
> My guess(tm) is that they don't want anyone else to know
> that they might like, enjoy, need, or are otherwise involved
> with computahs.
Sure. And I also know lots of people 70+ who use computers.
But not everyone.
> I've done is setup Skype or other VoIP client with a speakerphone
> (or just computer speakers and an open microphone) to act more
> like an intercom or voice chat room than a phone. The mic
> is always open, the speakers live, and the connection up.
> Wanna talk? Just yell into the microphone. Skype video gives
> a clue if anyone is there. They've even played virtual baby
> sitter, although I've discouraged the practice. Admitedly, not
> everyone is thrilled with the idea, but it does have it's place.
> Of course, it requires a nailed up connection, which can't be
> done with dialup.
Sure, this might sell more people. But a lot of people don't
want to be "sold" and really do not want to change their ways
of working. I'm quite certain I should not impose mine on them.
> I forgot to mention that I've also sold a few dedicated VoIP phones
> and adapters, so that they don't have to use the computer to talk. For
> some odd reason, these are not used as much as I would expect. Most
> people tend to favor the computer for some odd reason.
You answered it yourself: no open line.
> Probably true if the grad-brats are fairly close. A computer is a
> bad replacement for personal contact. However, the people I deal
> with have families scattered all over the world. They see each
> other perhaps every few years, usually at funerals and weddings.
> While VoIP, IM, web cams, and such are a poor substitute for
> personal contact, they'll do if nothing else is available.
Certainly true. They have pressing needs.
> Incidentally, the most difficult part of VoIP or video
> phones is convincing users that they do NOT have to watch
> the clock and that they are NOT being billed by the minute.
I can certainly believe. It took me a long time to master the
fine art of the 2 hour "phone call".
In comp.dcom.xdsl Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in part:
> There was some rather nasty feedback on Verison actually removing
> copper from the house if you used their Fiber to the Home service
> so you couldn't change providers. Don't see any reason to think
> that will not become an up and coming idea amongst others.
Well, they might have tried, but VZ couldn't remove the outside
plant because it doesn't belong to them. It belongs to the LEC.
Inside the NID, they could tear out wire (with the owners consent,
probably unavailable on a rental) but that would just cost them money.
Most likely they ran fiber to their own NID & jumpered into
premises wiring and cable.
Robert Redelmeier <redelm@ev1.net.invalid> writes:
>In comp.dcom.xdsl Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in part:
>> There was some rather nasty feedback on Verison actually removing
>> copper from the house if you used their Fiber to the Home service
>> so you couldn't change providers. Don't see any reason to think
>> that will not become an up and coming idea amongst others.
>Well, they might have tried, but VZ couldn't remove the outside
>plant because it doesn't belong to them. It belongs to the LEC.
Yes it does belong to them. Verizon is the ILEC for those areas now.
Pretty soon we'll be back to one telco LEC.
>Most likely they ran fiber to their own NID & jumpered into
>premises wiring and cable.
They did that too. But also removed the copper from the pole/pedestal
to the home in the process.
In comp.dcom.xdsl Doug McIntyre <merlyn@geeks.org> wrote in part:
> Yes it does belong to them. Verizon is the ILEC for those
> areas now. Pretty soon we'll be back to one telco LEC.
Well, in those areas it could. But it wouldn't be very
long before the PUC extended its' control to cover fiber,
including allowing CLEC-type access.
> I was using a clients dial-up that was too far out for DSL, and hence
> too far out for a "56K" connection. The actual sped was 22 Kbps and
> Yahoo and CNN took at least two minutes to load.
Most web sites are now designed an the assumption that they'll be
accessed at high speed. For example, the HTML alone for Yahoo's home
page is over 100kB. Add in images, scripts, style sheets, and such --
which are unfortunately no longer just eye candy but often necessary for
viewing and navigation -- and a single page can easily exceed 300kB.
"Surfing" the web on dialup isn't practical any more. It's more like a
slow paddle, hoping that the page you're trying to read doesn't
automatically refresh too often.
><nevtxjustin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was using a clients dial-up that was too far out for DSL, and hence
>> too far out for a "56K" connection. The actual sped was 22 Kbps and
>> Yahoo and CNN took at least two minutes to load.
>
>Most web sites are now designed an the assumption that they'll be
>accessed at high speed. For example, the HTML alone for Yahoo's home
>page is over 100kB. Add in images, scripts, style sheets, and such --
>which are unfortunately no longer just eye candy but often necessary for
>viewing and navigation -- and a single page can easily exceed 300kB.
What tool are you using to determine the page size?
Using Mozilla Firefox with "List all images" and "Extended Status Bar"
add-ons, for Yahoo, I get 40KB for the base HTML plus 14 images at
about 54KB in images for a total of about 100KBytes. However, it's a
pain to do the arithmetic for each page, and even worse to do the
calcs for benchmarking the load time. Is there a better and easier
way to get these numbers?
>"Surfing" the web on dialup isn't practical any more. It's more like a
>slow paddle, hoping that the page you're trying to read doesn't
>automatically refresh too often.
Use Lynx or one of the other text browsers?
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#Text-based>
Many sites have text only alternatives. Same with over-simplified
versions for cell phone and PDA browsers. For example, a WML emulator
will convince many popular web sites that you're using a mobile phone
with a WAP browser and deliver minimal web pages.
<http://wmlbrowser.mozdev.org/>
When I enable the WAP mode, Yahoo delivers 12KBytes of HTML and
2KBytes in images. Same with Google, but you have to start at:
<http://www.google.com/m/products>
"Charles Newman" <chuck@backtalkradio.net> wrote in message
news:13dv1hiaqtgikb3@corp.supernews.com...
|
| "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
| news:dvjud3l0lfr6mbja70ugqufct87fpptjlr@4ax.com...
| > Per Charles Newman:
| >>You should change your priorities and put saving time ahead of
| >>saving money.
| >
| > Bear in mind that it's a big world and not everybody has very
| > much money.
| >
| > $30/month may be small change for some, but it's a lot of money
| > for others.
| > --
| > PeteCresswell
|
| Chew on this, when copper wiring is eventually replaced, dialup
| will cease to work, and they people will have to choose a
| broadband offering.
????
For giggle and grins we hooked a dial up lap top to a VoIP system. We were
able to make the connection and it worked. We did not do any speed test as
this was part of a bar bet.
"Jeff Liebermann"
<snip>
|
| My parents and most elderly relatives are long dead. However, I deal
| with an older friend that is bed ridden and under medical house
| arrest. I couldn't get him interested in anything on the computer
| until I showed him how web cams work. With those, he could see his
| old haunts, PTZ (pan tilt zoom) if available, and play virtual
| tourist. It's not much, but its his connection to his former world.
| He claims he doesn't use it much, but I can tell from the router
| traffic logs that he's on the computer almost constantly. Needless to
| say, he has broadband. The only problem is when the grand-brats come
| over and play on the computer, which requires that I come over and
| undo the damage.
|
| There may also be some kind of fear of admitting that they like
| computers involved. I've tried to give lectures and demos at the
| local senior center on computer topics. Very few older people showed
| up or seemed interested. Yet, within a few days after the lecture, I
| would be buried in phone calls from them asking essentially what was
| covered in my song-n-dance. My guess(tm) is that they don't want
| anyone else to know that they might like, enjoy, need, or are
| otherwise involved with computahs.
|
| >She doesn't care about VoIP since she has excellent and inexpensive
| >voice service.
|
| Then you've simply demonstrate how a computer telephone operates. What
| I've done is setup Skype or other VoIP client with a speakerphone (or
| just computer speakers and an open microphone) to act more like an
| intercom or voice chat room than a phone. The mic is always open, the
| speakers live, and the connection up. Wanna talk? Just yell into the
| microphone. Skype video gives a clue if anyone is there. They've
| even played virtual baby sitter, although I've discouraged the
| practice. Admittedly, not everyone is thrilled with the idea, but it
| does have it's place. Of course, it requires a nailed up connection,
| which can't be done with dialup.
|
| I forgot to mention that I've also sold a few dedicated VoIP phones
| and adapters, so that they don't have to use the computer to talk. For
| some odd reason, these are not used as much as I would expect. Most
| people tend to favor the computer for some odd reason.
|
| >Her interests are her grandkids and I doubt the greater quantity
| >of traffic via email/IM would be any compensation of the loss of
| >emotional contact via voice and in-person.
|
| Probably true if the grad-brats are fairly close. A computer is a bad
| replacement for personal contact. However, the people I deal with
| have families scattered all over the world. They see each other
| perhaps every few years, usually at funerals and weddings. While
| VoIP, IM, web cams, and such are a poor substitute for personal
| contact, they'll do if nothing else is available. Incidentally, the
| most difficult part of VoIP or video phones is convincing users that
| they do NOT have to watch the clock and that they are NOT being billed
| by the minute. For those that grew up with Ma Bell being the primary
| method of communications, it's difficult for them to believe, and
| often difficult for them to adapt.
|
| >She doesn't have data to
| >transmit, and I don't think email would be "a way in". Kids aren't
| >very patient and [grand]parents a [necessary] intrusion.
|
| I never even mentioned email. In some cases, I don't even bother
| setting up email. The problem isn't the lack of bandwidth or personal
| touch. It's the monumental amounts of spam that have effectively
| ruined email for many light users. For those that want or must have
| email, I subscribe them to an email anti-spam filtering service.
I do volunteer tech support (in the land of the blind etc) for a local
Hospice group. As you say most are under medical house arrest.
In my experience the 'clients' don't have much of a choice as the issue of
dialup/broadband is one availability or more often than not cost.
Some just don't know enough to seek alternatives.
An aside those that with internet connectivity and have someone to show them
how benefit greatly in the quality of life they have. While their longevity
might or might not be impacted there is more joy in what time they have
left.
With regards to porn ... these folk are old they have been around the block.
Most have only fond memories and if a bit of porn makes the time they have
left better ... who's to judge.
An aside: At this age porn does not seem to be gender specific.
I don't mind at all the grand brats getting involved (and screwing up the
systems) as that means they are physically visiting. Even if there is no
real conversation the old folk do get a great kick out of the grand kids and
others just being there. I have one former Marine DI that gets a real kick
out of playing the Pony Lov game with his 7 y.o. grand daughter.
He had me set up two user names. One for his private use that is PW
protected and one for when his grand kids visit. FWIW the 7 y.o, gave the
old guy a WebKin doll so they can 'play' remotely.
>In my experience the 'clients' don't have much of a choice as the issue of
>dialup/broadband is one availability or more often than not cost.
That was what I found when I first arrived. Dialup or nothing. I
first attempted to get internet access for everyone in the complex
(approximately 200 units) and found that only a small number were
interested and that the wiring was not in conduit and therefore
difficult to run CAT5. Wiring closet space was also not available.
The CATV coax was owned by an outside contractor who was totally
non-cooperative. The intercom wires were sacred and could not be
borrowed. Various cable sharing schemes were deemed too expensive.
There were some other obstacles, but the easiest and cheapest was
shared CATV and DSL over telco.
I'll spare you the chronology, but basically, I had PBI/SBC/AT&T
qualify the phone lines as usable, and negotiated with the CATV cable
provider to allow cable modems. There were some equipment upgrades
(and removals) which amazingly were absorbed by the facilities
maintenance budget (bi-directional line amps for the CATV). There wer
elso some obviously trashed telco wires replaced. So now, the
residents have a choice of DSL providers or cable modems which they
contract individually with the provider.
>Some just don't know enough to seek alternatives.
It's a very common question that staff usually can't answer. I
arranged for an internet "menu" handout. It lists the local ISP's
with their prices, plans, and services. On the back, it lists the
local volunteer installers. I was in charge of keeping this up to
date. I haven't been involved for about 4 years and haven't checked
if it's still being done.
>An aside those that with internet connectivity and have someone to show them
>how benefit greatly in the quality of life they have. While their longevity
>might or might not be impacted there is more joy in what time they have
>left.
Yep. Some of these people are genuinely depressing. Others are a joy
to be with. Most live in the past but there are a few that never say
die. One lady was running a desktop publishing biz (using Windoze 3.1
incidentally) until a few months before she died from accumulated
maladies. There was no way she was going to get rich off her
business, but she had all the work she could handle. It was quite a
challenge keeping her equipment going over the years. Using her as an
example and as a teacher, many of the residents decided computers
would be interesting. Incidentally, she was one of those that only
wanted dialup and was not interested in broadband. Her line was "I've
seen the web, and there's nothing there for me". She did everything
via email on a free dialup account donated by a local ISP.
>With regards to porn ... these folk are old they have been around the block.
>Most have only fond memories and if a bit of porn makes the time they have
>left better ... who's to judge.
>An aside: At this age porn does not seem to be gender specific.
I never pass judgement but that doesn't stop me from being amazed. I
just assumed that there would be no interest at that advanced age. I
guess someone needs to rewrite the geriatrics handbooks.
>I don't mind at all the grand brats getting involved (and screwing up the
>systems) as that means they are physically visiting. Even if there is no
>real conversation the old folk do get a great kick out of the grand kids and
>others just being there. I have one former Marine DI that gets a real kick
>out of playing the Pony Lov game with his 7 y.o. grand daughter.
>
>He had me set up two user names. One for his private use that is PW
>protected and one for when his grand kids visit. FWIW the 7 y.o, gave the
>old guy a WebKin doll so they can 'play' remotely.
Nice. Abandonment by the relatives is a common problem. It's part of
the American way of aging and it sucks. I've been there myself and
can't offer any simple solution. I can fix the computers, but not the
relatives.
| >I don't mind at all the grand brats getting involved (and screwing up the
| >systems) as that means they are physically visiting. Even if there is no
| >real conversation the old folk do get a great kick out of the grand kids
and
| >others just being there. I have one former Marine DI that gets a real
kick
| >out of playing the Pony Lov game with his 7 y.o. grand daughter.
| >
| >He had me set up two user names. One for his private use that is PW
| >protected and one for when his grand kids visit. FWIW the 7 y.o, gave
the
| >old guy a WebKin doll so they can 'play' remotely.
|
| Nice. Abandonment by the relatives is a common problem. It's part of
| the American way of aging and it sucks. I've been there myself and
| can't offer any simple solution. I can fix the computers, but not the
| relatives.
The inability to address the abandonment by friends and relatives is one of
the reason me and mine (me/the wife/kids and grand kids) are involved with
Hospice. ( I recommend to all to check into the local program and at least
take the Hospice orientation classes. Not everyone is made out to do the
work but taking the classes will give one a clear look into themselves.)
A side comment: through my Hospice work I've met and become friends with men
who were on Iow Jima, Battan, flew B17s over Germany, P40s in China, were
crew with Dolittle, landed on the beaches in Normandy, etc. Even if the
stories were embellished by 50 years of selective memory the hearing was an
enormous experience for me. The stories told by the ladies that stayed home
were another eye opener. Stories from Korea and NAM were not quite so
pleasant but deserved the telling and the hearing. I expect before long to
be dealing with Gulf War vets and their families.
> In article <13dugebp05v6290@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Charles Newman" <chuck@backtalkradio.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Three words:
> >
> > Microsoft Seurity Updates
>
>
> Three words:
> Switch to Apple. (BEG)
The last security update (2007-007) for Mac OS X was more than 14MB.
<http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/>
Granted, you can survive without all those updates; but if you want to
keep a Mac reasonably current, you need high speed access or a friend
who has it.
Per NotMe:
>A side comment: through my Hospice work I've met and become friends with men
>who were on Iow Jima, Battan, flew B17s over Germany, P40s in China....
It's probably too late for them, but my reaction to a few (*very*
few... but nonetheless...) similar experiences is that I really
wish I'd recorded the conversations. Back then, it would have
been a challenge, but now with compact digital video cams... or
even a video-capable cell phone....
--
PeteCresswell
OT Hospece was Re: Dial-up holdouts ask: Why go to broadband?
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:ugi5e35p5crbi5l6tij9082f0u268q3k8u@4ax.com...
| Per NotMe:
| >A side comment: through my Hospice work I've met and become friends with
men
| >who were on Iow Jima, Battan, flew B17s over Germany, P40s in China....
|
| It's probably too late for them, but my reaction to a few (*very*
| few... but nonetheless...) similar experiences is that I really
| wish I'd recorded the conversations. Back then, it would have
| been a challenge, but now with compact digital video cams... or
| even a video-capable cell phone....
Under the protocols for Hospice (NDA), lacking a specific written release, I
can't disclose what we talk about.
Part of what allows the patent to talk about these things is a clear
understanding on my part about the nature of our relationship with regard to
the NDA.
I expect that even asking would shut the gate for many of my friends. (By
that time we are friends)
On Sep 6, 10:37 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> "Peter Pan" <PeterPanNOS...@AkamailNOSPAM.com> hath wroth:
>
> >Funny, you left off the most common answer (and one that I use too).. Why? I
> >pay about $9 a month fordialup, and cable is about $50 a month.... Why
> >spend about $40 a month, just to get junkmail/spam faster?
>
> Actually, I haven't heard it in quite that form. What I usually hear
> is something like, "broadbandcosts about 3 times as much asdialup.
> Will I get more than 3 times the fun/features/functionality onbroadbandasdialup?" I guess there are those that don't mind staring
> at the download indicator for 3 times as long.
>
> A demonstration of fast browsing, online music, video, gaming,
> downloading, updates, and such are usually insufficient. What always
> gets their attention is Skype, GizmoProject, X-Lite or other VoIP
> phone. These work overdialup, but just barely. You also can't
> receive calls ondialupif you're not connected full time. A free or
> very cheap phone call to some long lost relative in the old country
> usually clinches the sale.
>
> >Or how bout I travel a lot, and thebroadbandwill only work when I am at
> >one place, not the 50 weeks a year I travel....:)
>
> That's not an issue for my business and commercial customers. It
> might be for a few of my customers that travel, but most of these also
> have spouses and families at home that will use the connection.
>
> For those that do travel, I usually advise them that about 1600 to
> 2000 laptops per day are stolen and that they would be better off
> leaving theirs at home. My guess(tm) is about 1 in 4 that have
> ignored this advice, have had their laptops stolen while on a trip or
> vacation. The issue is not the replacement cost of the laptop. It's
> the vulnerability to various breach of disclosure laws if there is
> personal, customer, or vendor information on the laptop. Removable
> drives and/or encrypted filesystems have saved a few customers from
> embarrassing and expensive complications:
> <http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=605878>
>
> I think my next product will be a laptop destruct device, which
> ignites or explodes inside the laptop if someone attempts to use it
> without the proper incantations. Your money back if your laptop or
> data survives.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Surely one of the best reasons for having a dial-up account is that
your computer is less likely to be attacked by "evil hackers", since
with broadband your computer is connected to the internet all the
time. Even if dial-up is slower, that is relatively unimportant
>Surely one of the best reasons for having a dial-up account is that
>your computer is less likely to be attacked by "evil hackers", since
>with broadband your computer is connected to the internet all the
>time. Even if dial-up is slower, that is relatively unimportant
Go back a few messages to:
<http://groups.google.com/group/misc.news.internet.discuss/msg/07be5c545f4e3d76>
and see item #2.
<virgmob007@netscape.net>
|
| Surely one of the best reasons for having a dial-up account is that
| your computer is less likely to be attacked by "evil hackers", since
| with broadband your computer is connected to the internet all the
| time. Even if dial-up is slower, that is relatively unimportant
|
They make ON/OFF switches to address that eventuality.
In comp.dcom.xdsl virgmob007@netscape.net wrote in part:
> Surely one of the best reasons for having a dial-up account
> is that your computer is less likely to be attacked by "evil
> hackers", since with broadband your computer is connected
> to the internet all the time. Even if dial-up is slower,
> that is relatively unimportant
Dial-up is definitely _not_ any more secure than broadband.
"evil hackers" very seldom target any specific machine. They
launch worms and trojans that attack machines indiscriminately
and cannot tell dial-up from broadband.
Dial-up may be less valuable to a botnet, but it is also
easier to attack since it very seldom is protected by a
hardware firewall/router, usually is less secure [patched]
and usually has unsophisticated users.
On Sep 5, 11:46 pm, "Charles Newman" <ch...@backtalkradio.net> wrote:
>
> Chew on this, when copper wiring is eventually replaced,
> dialup will cease to work, and they people will have to
> choose a broadband offering.
Dialup is designed to work over POTS (plain old telephone service).
There are millions of analog telephones in service all over the US --
replacing copper with fiber won't change that.
With fiber in the loop, some sort of D-to-A conversion must happen
before the loop hits the jack in your wall, because as far as I know,
your average telephone user has no plans to replace all the handsets
in his or her home. So, as long as you can draw dialtone from the
RJ-11 jacks in your wall, analog modems should work.
I think at one time back in the early 90s, certain subscriber line
carriers would not support modems, but I think those have been fixed.
Re: Dial-up holdouts ask: Why go to broadband? 
Linear Mode
