The most interesting discovery about the iPhone was the performance
on the EDGE network. Using CATTRAX (which uses MapQuest maps) in real
time with zooming and scrolling was excellent. While some of the
updates took a few seconds, there was nothing that was a show-stopper
in the performance. It was much better, in fact, than the Q with EVDO
and Opera: that might be the AT&T network enhancements alone, but the
end result was excellent. Even El Reg popped up quickly and was
easily navigable, unlike sometimes on the Q where style sheet
problems make the page hard to read.
The real surprise was the integrated Wi-Fi. The fact that the phone
will pick up Wi-Fi on demand and use this for the "heavy lifting"
data transfers eliminates the need for HSDPA in many (but not all)
situations. (This is still a toughie for me, as I have no wired WAN
connectivity and eschew using hot spots. However, Pat also has the
same set up as I do in his motor home, with an EVDO rev.a modem
feeding a Wi-Fi router, and this works very well for the higher speed
downloads as needed.) It appears that the iPhone does a superior job
of scheduling data transfers between foreground (web pages) and
background (large downloads) thus keeping the EDGE speed available
for immediate use.)
[MUCH MORE]
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
News wrote:
> John Navas wrote:
>
>> <http://www.theregister.com/2007/07/29/iphone_v_q/page2.html>
>
>
> The real story....
>
> No Bluetooth A2DP stereo audio, no PAN, no voice dial, limited add-on s/w.
>
> AAPL's "my way or the highway" version of "no clue" interfaces.
>
> Verdict: all but fashion victims should wait.
>
> As usual, fashion victims can pay-to-beta.
And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days ago.
It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
"DTC" wrote:
> News wrote:
>> John Navas wrote:
>>
>>> <http://www.theregister.com/2007/07/29/iphone_v_q/page2.html>
>>
>>
>> The real story....
>>
>> No Bluetooth A2DP stereo audio, no PAN, no voice dial, limited add-on
>> s/w.
>>
>> AAPL's "my way or the highway" version of "no clue" interfaces.
>>
>> Verdict: all but fashion victims should wait.
>>
>> As usual, fashion victims can pay-to-beta.
>
> And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days ago.
> It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
Tinman wrote:
> "DTC" wrote:
>> And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days ago.
>> It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
>
> Not a chance.
How so? Is there something in the side by side comparison I missed?
On 7/29/07 1:41 PM, in article
8d5ri.2448$AC7.2308@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net, "DTC"
<no_spam@move_along_folks.foob> wrote:
> Tinman wrote:
>> "DTC" wrote:
>>> And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days ago.
>>> It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
>>
>> Not a chance.
>
>
> How so? Is there something in the side by side comparison I missed?
Yeah. The fact that you are a racist using a piece o'shit for a phone. All
that sliding keyboard will jam up with the sugar goo from your
doughnut-infested fingers.
George Kerby wrote:
>
>
> Yeah. The fact that you are a racist using a piece o'shit for a phone. All
> that sliding keyboard will jam up with the sugar goo from your
> doughnut-infested fingers.
>
"DTC" wrote:
> Tinman wrote:
>> "DTC" wrote:
>>> And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days
>>> ago. It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
>>
>> Not a chance.
>
>
> How so? Is there something in the side by side comparison I missed?
That is a biased comparison by Helio themselves, nothing more.
My point was that the iPhone will outsell it by a huge margin. The fact that
helio.com chose to even do such a comparison to the iPhone--a comparison I
find suspect anyway--is evidence to that. If Apple did that people would be
saying, "Helio Ocean who?"
But about those points...
Treo 750 does EV-DO yet several tests have shown that even when the iPhone
is running on EDGE it was able to render pages faster. The Register article
that is the basis for this thread came to the same conclusion. So just
listing 3G doesn't impress me. Lack of WiFi, OTOH, is a *big* drawback of
the Ocean (if the iPhone had no WiFi I would even be discussing it, let
alone have one).
About the only thing I would want in that comparison chart is A2DP. But I
certainly wouldn't won't to switch to an Ocean to get it.
And how about the screen? Without question my iPhone has the best screen of
any mobile device I've ever owned, or used. The Ocean has QVGA which is only
half the resolution, and who knows how good it is when in use.
No mention of how well the Ocean works with iTunes either, something I have
been enjoying a lot more than I had anticipated with my iPhone.
Size and weight comparison? Didn't see it.
Memory? My iPhone has 8 gigs. You can get what, 2 gigs now in MicroSD? My
iPhone currently has 3 gigs of just video (and the quality is great--it's
actually usable as a video player).
Finally, the Web browsing experience on my iPhone is, once again, far better
than any mobile device I've ever owned, or used. Call me skeptical but I
would have to see the Ocean in action to think it even comes close (though,
again, with half the resolution how could it?).
What about syncing? I read the Ocean doesn't even sync to Outlook. Is that
correct? Why not in the comparison chart?
I could go on, but to state that this device is going to "knock the iPhone
to the back of the bus" due to an incomplete, and biased, comparison chart
doesn't quite seem appropriate.
> About the only thing I would want in that comparison chart is A2DP. But I
> certainly wouldn't won't to switch to an Ocean to get it.
>
....
>
> No mention of how well the Ocean works with iTunes either, something I
> have been enjoying a lot more than I had anticipated with my iPhone.
> Tinman wrote:
>
>> About the only thing I would want in that comparison chart is A2DP. But I
>> certainly wouldn't won't to switch to an Ocean to get it.
>>
> ...
>
>>
>> No mention of how well the Ocean works with iTunes either, something I
>> have been enjoying a lot more than I had anticipated with my iPhone.
>
>
> Enjoying? Of what use is a mono "tunes" device?
>
> What were they thinking?
What are YOU thinking? WTF do you mean by 'mono'?
George Kerby wrote:
>
>
> On 7/29/07 2:50 PM, in article
> fe2dnV-rvO_7cjHbnZ2dnUVZ_rTinZ2d@speakeasy.net, "News" <News@Groups.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Tinman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>About the only thing I would want in that comparison chart is A2DP. But I
>>>certainly wouldn't won't to switch to an Ocean to get it.
>>>
>>
>>...
>>
>>
>>>No mention of how well the Ocean works with iTunes either, something I
>>>have been enjoying a lot more than I had anticipated with my iPhone.
>>
>>
>>Enjoying? Of what use is a mono "tunes" device?
>>
>>What were they thinking?
>
> What are YOU thinking? WTF do you mean by 'mono'?
No Bluetooth A2DP = no stereo = mono (single or dual).
One could do as 'pod people do and wear wires, but why?
George Kerby wrote:
>
>
> On 7/29/07 1:41 PM, in article
> 8d5ri.2448$AC7.2308@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net, "DTC"
> <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob> wrote:
>
>> Tinman wrote:
>>> "DTC" wrote:
>>>> And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days ago.
>>>> It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
>>> Not a chance.
>>
>> How so? Is there something in the side by side comparison I missed?
> Yeah. The fact that you are a racist using a piece o'shit for a phone. All
> that sliding keyboard will jam up with the sugar goo from your
> doughnut-infested fingers.
Not sure what you are talking about.
1) Hrmm.....no clue where you got that idea.
2) Have neither the iPhone nor Ocean
3) I don't eat donuts.
Tinman wrote:
> "DTC" wrote:
>> Tinman wrote:
>>> "DTC" wrote:
>>>> And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days
>>>> ago. It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
>>> Not a chance.
>>
>> How so? Is there something in the side by side comparison I missed?
>
> That is a biased comparison by Helio themselves, nothing more.
I don't see how it can be biased, unless there are serious shortcomings on
the Ocean that they don't mention. Its a simple factual comparison.
> My point was that the iPhone will outsell it by a huge margin. The fact that
> helio.com chose to even do such a comparison to the iPhone--a comparison I
> find suspect anyway--is evidence to that.
No doubt Apple will sell more - a major carrier is selling it and brand
recognition. Helio choose to make a comparison because the iPhone and Ocean
are similar, at least when compared to other products.
> But about those points...
>
> Treo 750 does EV-DO yet several tests have shown that even when the iPhone
> is running on EDGE it was able to render pages faster. The Register article
> that is the basis for this thread came to the same conclusion. So just
> listing 3G doesn't impress me.
Was teh Treo running EVDO Rev A? If not, then the download speeds would be
comparable and the page renerding engine would be important. If the Treo
was indeed running rev-A...even at a slow speed of 512 Kbps is still five
times faster than the fastest EDGE speed.
> Lack of WiFi, OTOH, is a *big* drawback of
> the Ocean (if the iPhone had no WiFi I would even be discussing it, let
> alone have one).
Good point. It might be more important for people in a dense WiFi landscape
and don't have their laptop handy.
On 7/29/07 5:07 PM, in article
Uc8ri.53658$5j1.32611@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net, "DTC"
<no_spam@move_along_folks.foob> wrote:
> George Kerby wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 7/29/07 1:41 PM, in article
>> 8d5ri.2448$AC7.2308@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net, "DTC"
>> <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob> wrote:
>>
>>> Tinman wrote:
>>>> "DTC" wrote:
>>>>> And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days ago.
>>>>> It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
>>>> Not a chance.
>>>
>>> How so? Is there something in the side by side comparison I missed?
>> Yeah. The fact that you are a racist using a piece o'shit for a phone. All
>> that sliding keyboard will jam up with the sugar goo from your
>> doughnut-infested fingers.
>
>
> Not sure what you are talking about.
>
> 1) Hrmm.....no clue where you got that idea.
"Back of the bus" statement?
> 2) Have neither the iPhone nor Ocean
You sure pimp the Ocean.
> 3) I don't eat donuts.
Cheetos, then...
>
> Now...lets discuss your issues, pumpkin.
Sure thing, "sweetie":
This is shit >>>>>> Ocean
This is Shinola >>>>>> iPhone
You simply don't understand Apples and Lemons
Now back in your corner. I'm fishing for more than a mullet...
George Kerby wrote:
> "Back of the bus" statement?
I suddenly realized that you took it in a Rosa Parks context, that was
hardly the context I envisioned. Just as so if I talked about the lack of
iPhone's stereo Bluetooth as a "chink in the armor", would you consider
that Chino-racist?
>> 2) Have neither the iPhone nor Ocean
> You sure pimp the Ocean.
One comment does not a pimp make.
Navasizing over a Moto V557 does.
>> 3) I don't eat donuts.
> Cheetos, then...
Nope.
Edge vs. EVDO, well I can tell you this, I had a 8525 and now have a Sprint
Mogul with EVDO, its like a Kia Septra (8525) racing a Porsche Turbo
Carrera, there's no comparison. I wouldn't never have even considered
Sprint except, AT&T is slow to impliment plain ole UMTS down by me, never
mind HSDPA and for $30bux a month including data, unlimited texts,
nationwide roaming, nights and weekends (starting at 7pm) and 500 mins on a
SERO plan. Its cheaper then my PDA connect. Besides the Mogul is a little
nicer then the 8525.
"DTC" wrote:
> Tinman wrote:
>> "DTC" wrote:
>>> Tinman wrote:
>>>> "DTC" wrote:
>>>>> And to add to the story, check out the Ocean that I posted a few days
>>>>> ago. It appears to really knock the iPhone to the back of the bus.
>>>> Not a chance.
>>>
>>> How so? Is there something in the side by side comparison I missed?
>>
>> That is a biased comparison by Helio themselves, nothing more.
>
> I don't see how it can be biased, unless there are serious shortcomings on
> the Ocean that they don't mention. Its a simple factual comparison.
Yes, there are shortcomings missing; obviously. I already mentioned screen
resolution, for example, which is a biggie and not mentioned anywhere in the
chart. Same with memory, syncing ability, etc. No surprise though, it's not
a 3rd-party independent chart.
>>
>> Treo 750 does EV-DO yet several tests have shown that even when the
>> iPhone is running on EDGE it was able to render pages faster. The
>> Register article that is the basis for this thread came to the same
>> conclusion. So just listing 3G doesn't impress me.
>
> Was teh Treo running EVDO Rev A? If not, then the download speeds would be
> comparable and the page renerding engine would be important. If the Treo
> was indeed running rev-A...even at a slow speed of 512 Kbps is still five
> times faster than the fastest EDGE speed.
I think the tests showed that just having a faster connection is no
guarantee of how the browser is going to work once you actually use it. In
the Treo case it was obviously struggling on the rendering part. And EV-DO
is 3G and has always been considered faster than EDGE. Let's not move goal
posts now...
>
> > Lack of WiFi, OTOH, is a *big* drawback of
>> the Ocean (if the iPhone had no WiFi I would even be discussing it, let
>> alone have one).
>
> Good point. It might be more important for people in a dense WiFi
> landscape and don't have their laptop handy.
I wouldn't consider myself in a dense WiFi locale. It doesn't matter too
much though since most of the time I am either at home or at work, and both
locations have WiFi. (Yes, I do use the iPhone's Web browser at home and
work when I am not right in front of a PC; it's quite fast and very
useable--unlike the "mobile" feel of browsing with other PDAs/smartphones
that I have owned or used in the past.)
That said I do find WiFi in more places than I would have expected. Like my
local video store, deli, mall, etc. I wouldn't have even known these places
have WiFi because the odds of me walking in/around with my laptop are low.
With the iPhone it's very easy to just take it out and see if WiFi is
available.
George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> hath wroth:
>Yeah. The fact that you are a racist using a piece o'shit for a phone. All
>that sliding keyboard will jam up with the sugar goo from your
>doughnut-infested fingers.
I'm a racist and have the speeding tickets to prove it.
Well, if you don't like an iPhone, you can always glue an iPod to an
ordinary cell phone with a BluEye:
<http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201002097>
<http://www.gear4blueye.com>
Incidentally, you're right about messing up the screen. Once a month,
I turn into a werewolf. My claws tend to scratch the screen.
News wrote:
> No Bluetooth A2DP = no stereo = mono (single or dual).
>
> One could do as 'pod people do and wear wires, but why?
No Bluetooth A2DP = no stereo = mono (single or dual).
--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
is a small price to pay to bring U.S. troops home."
-- Jonah Goldberg
clifto wrote:
> News wrote:
>
>>No Bluetooth A2DP = no stereo = mono (single or dual).
>>
>>One could do as 'pod people do and wear wires, but why?
>
>
> No Bluetooth A2DP = no stereo = mono (single or dual).
>
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:edjqa3lvd4pcb0et8id10ma0gmiamd7v8g@4ax.com...
> George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> hath wroth:
>
> I'm a racist and have the speeding tickets to prove it.
* I'm a Teen Racer myself. Nah probably a little too old for that. I do
usually ride in the back of the bus whenever I have the rare occassion of
riding a bus.
>
> Well, if you don't like an iPhone, you can always glue an iPod to an
> ordinary cell phone with a BluEye:
> <http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201002097>
> <http://www.gear4blueye.com>
>
> Incidentally, you're right about messing up the screen. Once a month,
> I turn into a werewolf. My claws tend to scratch the screen.
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
* Are you in your normal personality right now, or like the other one? Or
would you know? I usually don't know...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:37:08 -0400, Alan Spicer wrote:
> "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
> news:edjqa3lvd4pcb0et8id10ma0gmiamd7v8g@4ax.com...
>> George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> hath wroth:
>>
>> I'm a racist and have the speeding tickets to prove it.
>
> * I'm a Teen Racer myself. Nah probably a little too old for that. I do
> usually ride in the back of the bus whenever I have the rare occassion of
> riding a bus.
I hate niggers.
--
Why does a Jew pick his nose? It's cheaper than using a tissue and they
are tastier than motza balls.
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 15:49:19 -0500, George Kerby wrote:
>>> No mention of how well the Ocean works with iTunes either, something I
>>> have been enjoying a lot more than I had anticipated with my iPhone.
>>
>> Enjoying? Of what use is a mono "tunes" device?
>>
>> What were they thinking?
> What are YOU thinking? WTF do you mean by 'mono'?
--
In order to make up for my constant hounding of people on
alt.music.jethro-tull, to this day, I have rekindled myself as Ryan
White on the Jethro Tull Forum. If you desire, I will be happy to rise
again as Poogie, pik, IBenGitner, vermin, or three dozen other nyms and
fast e-mail you some porn.
>"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:edjqa3lvd4pcb0et8id10ma0gmiamd7v8g@4ax.com.. .
>> Incidentally, you're right about messing up the screen. Once a month,
>> I turn into a werewolf. My claws tend to scratch the screen.
>* Are you in your normal personality right now, or like the other one? Or
>would you know? I usually don't know...
>Alan Spicer
Well, look at the calendar. I posted this on the night of July 29th,
which was the full moon. However, the body mechanic ordered me to
"take it easy" which eliminates the monthly thrill of the chase and
kill. So, I stayed home, chewed up some furniture, keyboards and
mice, and snarled at the neighbors chickens.
Being a werewolf has its challenges:
<http://groups.google.com/group/ba.mountain-folk/msg/39b6a964315d4832>
"Hooked Nose" <theromanskilledchrist@turneddownnostrils.com> wrote in
message news:1b6vbhxbqgxdx$.wqhw6rywyghl.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:37:08 -0400, Alan Spicer wrote:
>
>> "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>> news:edjqa3lvd4pcb0et8id10ma0gmiamd7v8g@4ax.com...
>>> George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> hath wroth:
>>>
>>> I'm a racist and have the speeding tickets to prove it.
>>
>> * I'm a Teen Racer myself. Nah probably a little too old for that. I do
>> usually ride in the back of the bus whenever I have the rare occassion of
>> riding a bus.
>
> I hate niggers.
> --
> Why does a Jew pick his nose? It's cheaper than using a tissue and they
> are tastier than motza balls.
Ummm. Nahhh. I'll pass. Can we get back to holy wars about cellular gadgets?
> Well, look at the calendar. I posted this on the night of July 29th,
> which was the full moon. However, the body mechanic ordered me to
> "take it easy" which eliminates the monthly thrill of the chase and
> kill. So, I stayed home, chewed up some furniture, keyboards and
> mice, and snarled at the neighbors chickens.
>
> Being a werewolf has its challenges:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/ba.mountain-folk/msg/39b6a964315d4832>
How'd you get in computer consulting, with such a writing talent?
>
> (Bringing topic drift to a new all time low.)
>
We're at the bottom. It's all uphill from here. At least I don't think you
or I were the worst here.
>> Being a werewolf has its challenges:
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/ba.mountain-folk/msg/39b6a964315d4832>
>How'd you get in computer consulting, with such a writing talent?
I'll resist the temptation to expound in detail on my favorite
subject, me. Way back in high skool and college, I was consistently
judged to be the most atrocious writer that ever lived. My grades
were marginal and my writing unremarkable. The problem was that I
believed the grades and acted accordingly in avoiding any manner of
writing.
That worked well until I designed a product that needed documentation.
I did my honest best and much to my amazement received copious praise
from the customers. That was 35 years ago. I've spend considerable
time since then working on my writing, poetry, style, and form. The
difference is that I no longer care what anyone else thinks of my
writing. I'm my own judge and worst critic. It works.
During the dot com era, I did quite a bit of writing and criticism of
science fiction business plans and product proposals, mostly for
investors. In many cases, those most knowledgeable about a product or
service, are the least qualified to analyze or document it. My
combination of techy talent, business knowledge, writing skill,
caustic criticism, arrogance, disdain for authority, and a dash of
humor, was sufficient to get and retain the business.
In short, 35 years of practice and honest self appraisal was what was
required. If I had received good writing grades in skool, I would
have maintained a smug attitude and done nothing to improve myself.
I have some not so nice things to say about the writing skills of some
of those posting in these newsgroups, but I can save that for another
rant.
We return you now to the iPhone versus everything.
On Jul 29, 9:56 am, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> <http://www.theregister.com/2007/07/29/iphone_v_q/page2.html>
> The real surprise was the integrated Wi-Fi. The fact that the phone
> will pick up Wi-Fi on demand and use this for the "heavy lifting"
> data transfers eliminates the need for HSDPA in many (but not all)
> situations. (This is still a toughie for me, as I have no wired WAN
> connectivity and eschew using hot spots. ......
John, my son was home for the weekend and tried to connect to my
wifi network ( found my SSID and I gave him my WPA key) but the
iPhone
was "Unable to connect"
is this a "hex/ascii" entry problem or an iPhone inherent (being a new
device) problem? I don't recall seeing the option for sending hex/
ascii
when the password keyboard prompt/disppaly was up. Googling this
issue seemed to show that quite a few people are getting ahard time
connecting to WIFI network, mostly due to WEP hex/ascii problem.
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 17:13:44 -0000, cmdrdata <cmdrdata@mail.com> wrote
in <1186074824.009104.268600@i13g2000prf.googlegroups .com>:
>On Jul 29, 9:56 am, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> <http://www.theregister.com/2007/07/29/iphone_v_q/page2.html>
>
>> The real surprise was the integrated Wi-Fi. The fact that the phone
>> will pick up Wi-Fi on demand and use this for the "heavy lifting"
>> data transfers eliminates the need for HSDPA in many (but not all)
>> situations. (This is still a toughie for me, as I have no wired WAN
>> connectivity and eschew using hot spots. ......
>
>John, my son was home for the weekend and tried to connect to my
>wifi network ( found my SSID and I gave him my WPA key) but the
>iPhone
>was "Unable to connect"
>
>is this a "hex/ascii" entry problem or an iPhone inherent (being a new
>device) problem? I don't recall seeing the option for sending hex/
>ascii
>when the password keyboard prompt/disppaly was up. Googling this
>issue seemed to show that quite a few people are getting ahard time
>connecting to WIFI network, mostly due to WEP hex/ascii problem.
WPA or WEP?
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
EDGE vs EVDO 
Linear Mode
