Is there a product that you can recommend for locating your laptop if
you misplace it or it is stolen? I don't really want the lojack
version--I want to track it myself.
Thanks in advance
Does this allow you to track it yourself or do you have to go to police
to do it?
f/fgeorge wrote:
> On 3 Nov 2005 09:54:16 -0800, aubamadude@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Is there a product that you can recommend for locating your laptop if
> >you misplace it or it is stolen? I don't really want the lojack
> >version--I want to track it myself.
> >Thanks in advance
> This is one called "computrace"
> http://www.absolute.com/
<aubamadude@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131040456.149637.254040@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> Is there a product that you can recommend for locating your laptop if
> you misplace it or it is stolen? I don't really want the lojack
> version--I want to track it myself.
> Thanks in advance
>
Get a Clapper (advertised every Christmas on cable TV), wire it to an auto
horn you pick up at NAPA and bolt the whole assembly it to the back of your
notebook.
When you lose your computer, clap your hands twice and the horn will
sound--- leading you right to it. Also consider attaching a xenon strobe to
the Clapper so it will flash too.
>Is there a product that you can recommend for locating your laptop if
>you misplace it or it is stolen? I don't really want the lojack
>version--I want to track it myself.
The commercial products only work when connected to the internet. The
idea is that the thief will try to connect to the internet thus
disclosing its general location. However, that doesn't always work if
the laptop is protected by a power on password. The thief never
bothered to even try using the laptop. Even if the laptop contained a
GPS receiver, the laptop would need to connect to the internet to
reveal it's location (unless you want to also install a packet radio
or cell phone xmitter).
In order for a GPS to work as an anti-theft device, it would need to
be internally installed. Externally installed GPS receiver can simply
be removed, shielded or unplugged. That means a MiniPCI GPS card
installed in place of the dialup modem with some kind of antenna in
the lid. I couldn't find any such MiniPCI cards with Google. If you
find a MiniPCI GPS card, I would be interested.
It might also be possible to hide a USB GPS inside the laptop, but the
one's I've torn apart offer few opportunities for concealment.
Methinks that's what preventing deployment of GPS based anti-theft
solutions.
If you're planning to use radio for the return link, you might want to
get a ham license and look into APRS: http://www.tapr.org/aprs.html
Incidentally, I invented a somewhat effective laptop anti-theft
device. It's mercury tilt switch, timer, battery and Sonalert
beeper. A tiny hidden on-off switch turns it off when necessary. The
tilt switch is setup so that it fires off the Sonalert when the laptop
base is held in position other than horizontal. Pick it up off the
table and the Sonalert goes off after a short delay. Unless the thief
wants to carry it away holding it horizontally and open, the Sonalert
will scream its head off. I've built a few of these for friends and
have found them to be fairly effective. Unfortunately, the general
reaction of the thief is panic and two laptops have been trashed when
they dropped the laptop and ran.
> Incidentally, I invented a somewhat effective laptop anti-theft
> device. It's mercury tilt switch, timer, battery and Sonalert
> beeper. A tiny hidden on-off switch turns it off when necessary.
> The tilt switch is setup so that it fires off the Sonalert when the laptop
> base is held in position other than horizontal. Pick it up off the
> table and the Sonalert goes off after a short delay. Unless the thief
> wants to carry it away holding it horizontally and open, the Sonalert
> will scream its head off. I've built a few of these for friends and
> have found them to be fairly effective. Unfortunately, the general
> reaction of the thief is panic and two laptops have been trashed when
> they dropped the laptop and ran.
>
Clever. Much as I'd prefer not to have my laptop trashed, I'd also rather
have it broken and in my possession than in the hands of a thief.
--
derek
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> On 3 Nov 2005 09:54:16 -0800, aubamadude@yahoo.com wrote:
>>Is there a product that you can recommend for locating your laptop if
>>you misplace it or it is stolen? I don't really want the lojack
>>version--I want to track it myself.
After having mine stolen, with the undamaged lock left behind, I looked
into products for my new laptop. As Jeff notes, they all require internet
access to report back to the mother ship. Some of them bury this a little
better than others, claiming to survive a disk format and reload of
software. I won't go into that ;-)
> Incidentally, I invented a somewhat effective laptop anti-theft
> device. It's mercury tilt switch, timer, battery and Sonalert
> beeper.
I thought Kensington made some clever alarmed cable, but I see that the
alarm only goes off if someone cuts the cable. No need for that,
obviously, in my case. And their "replacement warranty" is only if the
cable fails. Nothing at all said about the ability of thieves to simply
pick the lock and walk away.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>> On 3 Nov 2005 09:54:16 -0800, aubamadude@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>>Is there a product that you can recommend for locating your laptop if
>>>you misplace it or it is stolen? I don't really want the lojack
>>>version--I want to track it myself.
>
>After having mine stolen, with the undamaged lock left behind, I looked
>into products for my new laptop. As Jeff notes, they all require internet
>access to report back to the mother ship. Some of them bury this a little
>better than others, claiming to survive a disk format and reload of
>software. I won't go into that ;-)
>
>> Incidentally, I invented a somewhat effective laptop anti-theft
>> device. It's mercury tilt switch, timer, battery and Sonalert
>> beeper.
Will it withstand dunking (in a container of water)? That's how thieves
commonly defeat commercial alarm products.
>I thought Kensington made some clever alarmed cable, but I see that the
>alarm only goes off if someone cuts the cable. No need for that,
>obviously, in my case. And their "replacement warranty" is only if the
>cable fails. Nothing at all said about the ability of thieves to simply
>pick the lock and walk away.
Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian ($60 retail), which has a patented
tamper-resistant locking mechanism and an extra strong cable, is generally
considered to be the best notebook computer security device.
<http://www.pcguardian.com/Notebook_Security/Notebook_Guardian_Ultra_2001.html>
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
<aubamadude@yahoo.com> wrote in message ...
> Is there a product that you can recommend for locating your laptop if
> you misplace it or it is stolen? I don't really want the lojack
> version--I want to track it myself.
> Thanks in advance
(This isn't practical, but would be "interesting".)
Years ago, I read about a hardware approach to dynamic DNS. At the time, I
thought it was really cool. It was just a little box with two ethernet
jacks. All the drivers were hardcoded in the hardware. Plug any internet
feed into one ethernet jack and after getting it's IP's, it dialed the
dynamic DNS service (it was $50/year), and their DNS servers assigned your
domain to the dynamic IP. The other ethernet jack was used for whatever you
are using it with.
Maybe something like this exists now that could be small enough to hide in a
laptop, and with enough work (get out the dremel and spare cables), you
could "replace" the built-in ethernet with this box. (Yep, it would be a
major PITA!)
So, when they replace the OS, you'd still be able to ping the thing easily
should someone plug it into their internet connection.
Tie that into some sort of "Wake-On-Internet" function ---- wired to
explosives!
Someone steals your laptop? Just wake for them to connect to the internet
and then blow 'em up.
(Of course, you'd probably be blowing up an innocent who bought the laptop
from a palm shop though.)
In the Usenet newsgroup alt.internet.wireless, in article
<c6KdnfRrQo29qPbeRVn-pg@comcast.com>, Patrick Cleburne wrote:
><aubamadude@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Is there a product that you can recommend for locating your laptop if
>> you misplace it or it is stolen?
>Get a Clapper (advertised every Christmas on cable TV), wire it to an auto
>horn you pick up at NAPA and bolt the whole assembly it to the back of your
>notebook.
Don't forget the automotive battery charger - most NAPA horns don't work
very long at mains voltage (120 VAC in the USA), and you may miss seeing
the puff of smoke.
>When you lose your computer, clap your hands twice and the horn will
>sound--- leading you right to it. Also consider attaching a xenon strobe to
>the Clapper so it will flash too.
Nah, just strap the laptop to the back of a Rottweiler. With a little
training, the dog will act as a workstand for the computer, and will
come when called. Tends to reduce the risk of theft too. If you can't
afford to buy a new Rotty. see the friendly re-cycling center (known
by names like RSPCA, SPCA, or HSA) and get a slightly used one (or a
suitable substitute) for a much lower acquisition cost.
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:43:14 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>After having mine stolen, with the undamaged lock left behind, I looked
>>into products for my new laptop. As Jeff notes, they all require internet
>>access to report back to the mother ship. Some of them bury this a little
>>better than others, claiming to survive a disk format and reload of
>>software. I won't go into that ;-)
I had my laptop stolen (bashed in rear window on my pickup truck). The
laptop was recovered by the Sheriff and identified as mine by the bios
sign on screen. However, to go beyond that requires that one type in
a bios password. This stopped the thieves so they spent their efforts
trying to get it to boot from the floppy and the cdrom. Unfortunately,
they were too stoned, wired, or hyped up to do anything better than
destroy both the floppy drive and cdrom drive.
It my laptop had been equiped with a GPS locator device, it would have
done nothing because the cuprits could not connect to the internet.
Bad idea, methinks.
>>> Incidentally, I invented a somewhat effective laptop anti-theft
>>> device. It's mercury tilt switch, timer, battery and Sonalert
>>> beeper.
>Will it withstand dunking (in a container of water)? That's how thieves
>commonly defeat commercial alarm products.
They wouldn't need to dunk it in water. The device is simply tossed
into the laptop bag or hidden in one of the numerous pockets the bag
vendors seem to think the customer require so that they can lose
adapters, disks, connectors, parts, cables, and other junk. The
mercury switch is home made out of chemistry glass tubing and is
easily broken. Lots of ways to defeat the device.
The key to success is that the thief does not know that it's there.
The device has successfully stopped a theft in progress at the airport
and 3 attempts at a hotel checkin counter. The ones that were dropped
were at a local coffee shop. I think it stopped 2 or 3 attempts. I
could probably build it into the laptop, but that's too much work.
Since it contain mercury, the EPA wants a permit which I'm told is
difficult to obtain (I haven't tried).
>Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian ($60 retail), which has a patented
>tamper-resistant locking mechanism and an extra strong cable, is generally
>considered to be the best notebook computer security device.
><http://www.pcguardian.com/Notebook_Security/Notebook_Guardian_Ultra_2001.html>
According to the web page:
Heavy duty cable
The thicker cable holds up against ordinary wire cutters.
I can cut it in 10 seconds with a battery operated Dremel tool and an
abrasive cutoff disk. I've demonstrated this using bicycle cables and
locks at one meeting. Wrapping the Dremel tool in foam or padding
really cuts down on the noise but speed is sufficient to cut and run.
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 22:26:26 GMT, "Eric" <none@nospam.not> wrote:
>So, when they replace the OS, you'd still be able to ping the thing easily
>should someone plug it into their internet connection.
A friend told me an interesting story (that may not be true). One of
her coworkers had her laptop and laptop bag stolen. Inside the bag
was also her cell phone. She asked the police to ask her cell
provider to see if they could get a position fix on the cell phone.
She knew it could be done because her husband works on the technology.
However, the police and cell provider either refused to try or claimed
it couldn't be done. Meanwhile, cell phones are being used to measure
traffic speed (and by implication, location). http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9698139/
If it were possible, then all that would be needed would be to leave a
functional unactivated cell phone in the laptop bag with a known ESN
number.
>Tie that into some sort of "Wake-On-Internet" function ---- wired to
>explosives!
>
>Someone steals your laptop? Just wake for them to connect to the internet
>and then blow 'em up.
>
>(Of course, you'd probably be blowing up an innocent who bought the laptop
>from a palm shop though.)
Such traps are against the law. You could easily be judged a
terrorist.
When I was much younger (and dumber), I used to buy surplus WWII
electronics and convert them for ham radio use. One day, we dragged
home a WWII IFF (indentification friend or foe) transponder that still
had the thermit charge installed. My parents called the police and I
got to watch the L.A. bomb squad do their thing. When I expressed my
displeasure at not seeing the bomb detonate, my parents advised me
that burning down the house was not a great idea. This was not my
first experience in Learn By Destroying(tm).
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:39:15 -0400, Derek Broughton
<news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>Clever. Much as I'd prefer not to have my laptop trashed, I'd also rather
>have it broken and in my possession than in the hands of a thief.
I've advised my customers to purchase laptops with removeable hard
disk drives. When travelling, seperate the drive from the laptop. If
the laptop gets stolen, the data is safe. This worked very nicely for
one customer that had their laptop mysteriously disappear from a
locked hotel room.
Note: USB external drives would also work, but Windoze makes it
rather difficult to seperate the data from the programs. My personal
thanks to all the moronic programmers that put their customers data
under the "Program Files" directory tree.
As for dropping the laptop, I have a Panasonic M-34 Toughbook. http://www.toughbooksales.com/tb_34.asp
The local telco and some of my customers have a Toughbook CF-29. http://www.toughbooksales.com/tb_29.asp
Magnesium case with rubber edges. Everything shock mounted. Built
like a tank. I haven't intentionally tried to drop the laptop, but it
sure looks like it would survive a fairly hard drop. It also has
built in GPS and CDMA phone options, which might be useful for
tracking the laptop if stolen. However, I haven't played with these
so I don't know if they can be used for anti-theft.
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 11:08:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>The local telco and some of my customers have a Toughbook CF-29.
> http://www.toughbooksales.com/tb_29.asp
>Magnesium case with rubber edges. Everything shock mounted. Built
>like a tank. I haven't intentionally tried to drop the laptop, but it
>sure looks like it would survive a fairly hard drop. It also has
>built in GPS and CDMA phone options, which might be useful for
>tracking the laptop if stolen. However, I haven't played with these
>so I don't know if they can be used for anti-theft.
Ouch. These options are expensive:
http://www.toughbooksales.com/store/...?idProduct=132
$830 for the Verizon CDMA option and $440 for the GPS options.
It also appears that the cellular and GPS options are mutually
exclusive. A typical CF-29 laptop is about $3,600.
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:43:14 GMT, John Navas
> <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian ($60 retail), which has a patented
>>tamper-resistant locking mechanism and an extra strong cable, is generally
>>considered to be the best notebook computer security device.
>><http://www.pcguardian.com/Notebook_Security/Notebook_Guardian_Ultra_2001.html>
>
> According to the web page:
> Heavy duty cable
> The thicker cable holds up against ordinary wire cutters.
>
> I can cut it in 10 seconds with a battery operated Dremel tool and an
> abrasive cutoff disk. I've demonstrated this using bicycle cables and
> locks at one meeting. Wrapping the Dremel tool in foam or padding
> really cuts down on the noise but speed is sufficient to cut and run.
And I would suspect that many laptops (as another poster mentioned) are
stolen with the locks intact. Both Dells I've had feel as if a determined
person could simply rip the lock out of the side of the case. It would
leave a gaping hole in the case - which would clearly tell a prospective
buyer they were getting a hot laptop, but I'm sure that's OK with many
buyers for the right price. I can't be the only person who owns a laptop
that is strictly used as a desktop system.
--
derek
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:43:14 GMT, John Navas
> <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>After having mine stolen, with the undamaged lock left behind, I looked
>>>into products for my new laptop. As Jeff notes, they all require internet
>>>access to report back to the mother ship. Some of them bury this a little
>>>better than others, claiming to survive a disk format and reload of
>>>software. I won't go into that ;-)
>
>
> I had my laptop stolen (bashed in rear window on my pickup truck). The
> laptop was recovered by the Sheriff and identified as mine by the bios
> sign on screen. However, to go beyond that requires that one type in
> a bios password. This stopped the thieves so they spent their efforts
> trying to get it to boot from the floppy and the cdrom. Unfortunately,
> they were too stoned, wired, or hyped up to do anything better than
> destroy both the floppy drive and cdrom drive.
>
> It my laptop had been equiped with a GPS locator device, it would have
> done nothing because the cuprits could not connect to the internet.
> Bad idea, methinks.
>
>
>>>>Incidentally, I invented a somewhat effective laptop anti-theft
>>>>device. It's mercury tilt switch, timer, battery and Sonalert
>>>>beeper.
>
>
>>Will it withstand dunking (in a container of water)? That's how thieves
>>commonly defeat commercial alarm products.
>
>
> They wouldn't need to dunk it in water. The device is simply tossed
> into the laptop bag or hidden in one of the numerous pockets the bag
> vendors seem to think the customer require so that they can lose
> adapters, disks, connectors, parts, cables, and other junk. The
> mercury switch is home made out of chemistry glass tubing and is
> easily broken. Lots of ways to defeat the device.
>
> The key to success is that the thief does not know that it's there.
> The device has successfully stopped a theft in progress at the airport
> and 3 attempts at a hotel checkin counter. The ones that were dropped
> were at a local coffee shop. I think it stopped 2 or 3 attempts. I
> could probably build it into the laptop, but that's too much work.
> Since it contain mercury, the EPA wants a permit which I'm told is
> difficult to obtain (I haven't tried).
>
>
>>Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian ($60 retail), which has a patented
>>tamper-resistant locking mechanism and an extra strong cable, is generally
>>considered to be the best notebook computer security device.
>><http://www.pcguardian.com/Notebook_Security/Notebook_Guardian_Ultra_2001.html>
>
>
> According to the web page:
> Heavy duty cable
> The thicker cable holds up against ordinary wire cutters.
>
> I can cut it in 10 seconds with a battery operated Dremel tool and an
> abrasive cutoff disk. I've demonstrated this using bicycle cables and
> locks at one meeting. Wrapping the Dremel tool in foam or padding
> really cuts down on the noise but speed is sufficient to cut and run.
>
>
>
Mercury is considered dangerous cargo for carriage on board aircraft
so you mat get pinged on that alone .
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <04dom1h8889km5057lqedjsug7iq52rs4k@4ax.com> on Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:46:15
GMT, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:43:14 GMT, John Navas
><spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian ($60 retail), which has a patented
>>tamper-resistant locking mechanism and an extra strong cable, is generally
>>considered to be the best notebook computer security device.
>><http://www.pcguardian.com/Notebook_Security/Notebook_Guardian_Ultra_2001.html>
>
>According to the web page:
> Heavy duty cable
> The thicker cable holds up against ordinary wire cutters.
>
>I can cut it in 10 seconds with a battery operated Dremel tool and an
>abrasive cutoff disk. I've demonstrated this using bicycle cables and
>locks at one meeting. Wrapping the Dremel tool in foam or padding
>really cuts down on the noise but speed is sufficient to cut and run.
The regular version or the Ultra version? The latter is considerably more
resistant to cutting than the former, and I'm skeptical that a Dremel could do
the job anywhere near that fast.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:19:46 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
>In <04dom1h8889km5057lqedjsug7iq52rs4k@4ax.com> on Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:46:15
>GMT, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:43:14 GMT, John Navas
>><spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>>Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian ($60 retail), which has a patented
>>>tamper-resistant locking mechanism and an extra strong cable, is generally
>>>considered to be the best notebook computer security device.
>>><http://www.pcguardian.com/Notebook_Security/Notebook_Guardian_Ultra_2001.html>
>>
>>According to the web page:
>> Heavy duty cable
>> The thicker cable holds up against ordinary wire cutters.
>>
>>I can cut it in 10 seconds with a battery operated Dremel tool and an
>>abrasive cutoff disk. I've demonstrated this using bicycle cables and
>>locks at one meeting. Wrapping the Dremel tool in foam or padding
>>really cuts down on the noise but speed is sufficient to cut and run.
>The regular version or the Ultra version? The latter is considerably more
>resistant to cutting than the former, and I'm skeptical that a Dremel could do
>the job anywhere near that fast.
No. I demonstrated it on a typical cheap bicycle cable lock. It was
a steel cable about 1/4" in diameter and quite heavy.
The PC Guardian cable is .3125 dia galvanized steel as 6 bundles of 37
strands with a steel core. That will probably require more than my
typical 10 seconds to cut, but not much more. If I really wanted the
laptop, I would probably attack what looks like a typical aluminum
Nyco-press cable sleeve clamp on the end loop. The cutoff disk will
probably clog and bog, but a rotary saw blade will go through the
aluminum like butter.
Try the Dremel cutoff tool on some stainless rigging cable (off the
vessel) and see how easily and cleanly it cuts. I haven't used bolt
cutters in years. Too much work.
Anyway, cable security devices make lots of sense with laptops that
are used primarily as a desktop replacement. I know of several
laptops where the smash and grab thief had simply bashed in the
window, reached inside, grabbed the laptop, and ran off. A cable
would have stopped them. However, the bulk of my customers loose
theirs in airports, hotels, coffee shops, and in their vehicles. The
laptops are usually unattended or inside a laptop bag where a cable
would be inconvenient. Granted, my mercury switch trick also wouldn't
do much for many such situations.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> Anyway, cable security devices make lots of sense with laptops that
> are used primarily as a desktop replacement.
The cylindrical locks are worthless in that environment. Less than 10
seconds to open my Kensington.
> I know of several laptops where the smash and grab thief had simply
> bashed in the window, reached inside, grabbed the laptop, and ran off.
Window? In an office? On the ground floor? Wow.
And a laptop within reach of the window?
I worry about a smash and grab in my car. The back windows are so heavily
tinted that you can't really see the black laptop bag, but I usually
cable-lock it to the seat, and try to cover it with something.
> laptops are usually unattended or inside a laptop bag where a cable
I have thought about locking the laptop to the seat on an airplane, in case
I have to wander off for a while.
I like the cellphone in the bag trick. I haven't figured out what to do
with my retired ATTWS phone yet. Charge it up. leave it on in the laptop
bag. Set it to auto-answer (oops, it's not activated).
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:62vpm1l0l2m7kpu3pn5g647s0icjvmm6iu@4ax.com...
> When I was much younger (and dumber), I used to buy surplus WWII
> electronics and convert them for ham radio use. One day, we dragged
> home a WWII IFF (indentification friend or foe) transponder that still
> had the thermit charge installed. My parents called the police and I
> got to watch the L.A. bomb squad do their thing. When I expressed my
> displeasure at not seeing the bomb detonate, my parents advised me
> that burning down the house was not a great idea. This was not my
> first experience in Learn By Destroying(tm).
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Interesting. Didn't even know IFF was in use during WW2. Never even
thought about them having an embedded charge, but that makes perfect sense.
Were the IFF codes (and encryption, if used?) hardcoded back then? I worked
satcom in the military up until about short time ago (4 years) and in the
"worst case scenerio" (million Chinamen coming over the hill), at the top of
the emergency actions would be to destroy all of the crypto -- but today,
they are channels and procedures in place should the worst (crypto
compromise) ever occur and it could be resolved, even at theater levels,
rather quickly. Not a subject I'd get into details over, obviously. There
is enough on it (too much?) at fas.org, anyway.
How was the thermite fused for the WW2 IFF's? Was there something that
detected when the aircraft impacted or did the pilot hit a switch or
something? Was there a time delay between the activation and fusing, or
would it just start buring right away?
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>
>> Anyway, cable security devices make lots of sense with laptops that
>> are used primarily as a desktop replacement.
>
>The cylindrical locks are worthless in that environment. Less than 10
>seconds to open my Kensington.
Welcome to alt.internet.wireless.crime.
One of the activities of my mis-spent youth was learning to pick
locks. I won't claim much proficiency, but given the proper tools,
tubular type locks are trivial: http://www.lockpickshop.com/c-SPT.html
However, unless it's one of those tiny cheapo locks like on the front
panel of older IBM clones, it usually takes me about 5-10 minutes to
open an ACE type lock.
>> I know of several laptops where the smash and grab thief had simply
>> bashed in the window, reached inside, grabbed the laptop, and ran off.
>
>Window? In an office? On the ground floor? Wow.
>And a laptop within reach of the window?
If I had a window with a nice view, I certainly would put my office
desk next to the window. The problem is that some of these windows
are easily accessible from walkways, patios, and decks. This is
common construction in small office buildings that don't have a retail
establishment on the ground floor. If a visitor to the office notices
the laptop near the window, that visitor can easily mutate into a
thief by returning later. Of the three incidents that I know about,
all were apparently well planned in advance. One grab and run was
careful to take the docking station and wireless mouse. I don't wanna
go into details.
>I worry about a smash and grab in my car. The back windows are so heavily
>tinted that you can't really see the black laptop bag, but I usually
>cable-lock it to the seat, and try to cover it with something.
That might work. I've had two laptops evaporate from my truck. The
first time, I was parked across from the SCZ Police station. The
thief jimmied the lock (no breakage) and grabbed the laptop and my
briefcase toolbox. The 2nd time, they bashed in the rear window and
just grabbed everything that was within reach behind the seat.
Fortunately, they left the toolbox, but got the laptop and camera
cases. I suspect this was opportunistic as much of value was left
behind. I have most of my tools and equipment in brief cases. I run
a small chain through the handles and secured to the pickup floor.
It's easily cut, but will slow down the smash and grab type of thief.
>I have thought about locking the laptop to the seat on an airplane, in case
>I have to wander off for a while.
That's usually when they get stolen. I watched a theft in progress at
a local coffee shop. The place was packed and the thief did an
impressive job of looking "normal". By the time the owner returned,
the thief was long gone. If you gotta go, take it with you. Also
consider my noise maker trick if the laptop is moved.
>I like the cellphone in the bag trick. I haven't figured out what to do
>with my retired ATTWS phone yet. Charge it up. leave it on in the laptop
>bag. Set it to auto-answer (oops, it's not activated).
Reminder... both the police and the cellular company said
(alternately) that it couldn't be traced or that they didn't want to
do it.
Incidentally, one of the problems I keep hearing about from ham
operators is the effect of improvised electronics on airport and
transportation inspectors. They're looking for home made bombs and
such. Anything that looks odd or home made is instantly suspect and
usually confiscated. One of my home made Sonalert devices was
confiscated at the airport. Another, along with a bunch of home made
ham radio equipment, was impounded by a cruise ship security. You
could hang some hardware, such as a GPS and APRS encoder, onto a cell
phone or radio transceiver, to get it to play tracker, but it will
probably get confiscated at the airport. However, see if these give
you some ideas. http://www.byonics.com/tinytrak/ http://www.byonics.com/pockettracker/ http://n1vg.net/opentracker/index.php
If you don't like APRS and want to be clever, you could install an
802.11b device set to automagically connect to any open access point,
and report its GPS position to a server somewhere. It wouldn't take
much more than a PIC controller, GPS, and client radio. (Yet another
project).
Gotta get a better virus scanner. I seem to be catching a cold.
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 01:38:19 GMT, "Eric" <none@nospam.anywhere.ever>
wrote:
>Interesting. Didn't even know IFF was in use during WW2.
IFF mis-use in WWII was a fairly well described in a book "The Wizard
War" by Reginald Jones. The allies were losing an unconcionable
number of bombers to German radar and RF detection systems. These
were all new to both sides and consistantly misused until the problems
were obvious. The British bomber crews seemed to have the impression
that the IFF units would somehow affect the anti-aircraft batteries
and their search lights. So, against orders, they would turn on the
IFF transponders, giving the Germans substantial warning as to the
time and direction of a bomber attack. They never could resist
turning it on so they were eventually removed and not used.
>Never even
>thought about them having an embedded charge, but that makes perfect sense.
>Were the IFF codes (and encryption, if used?) hardcoded back then?
No. The BC-645 was really crude. Worked at 420MHz using a "doorknob"
tube. The receiver would decode two pulses with controlled spacing.
If the spacing was right, it would respond with an AM modulated tone
burst. The later AN/APX-6 worked on about 800-1200Mhz and worked
somewhat like the current civilian radar transponders (encoding
altimeter). The British had similar systems with different
designations: http://jproc.ca/sari/sariff.html
>I worked
>satcom in the military up until about short time ago (4 years) and in the
>"worst case scenerio" (million Chinamen coming over the hill), at the top of
>the emergency actions would be to destroy all of the crypto -- but today,
>they are channels and procedures in place should the worst (crypto
>compromise) ever occur and it could be resolved, even at theater levels,
>rather quickly. Not a subject I'd get into details over, obviously. There
>is enough on it (too much?) at fas.org, anyway.
I'm not too worried. If the military actually turned everything on
all at once, nothing would work, everything would interfere with
everything else, and the whole mess would probably blow a fuse. I've
seen it happen. Sorry, no details.
>How was the thermite fused for the WW2 IFF's?
A code plug and a key. It required 24VDC from the aircraft to
initiate the charge.
>Was there something that
>detected when the aircraft impacted or did the pilot hit a switch or
>something?
Neither. The military was deploying the SCR-584 radar at the time for
anti-aircraft gun control. It has the bad habit of shooting down
anything that flew overhead. The idea behind IFF was to prevent
friendly fire from shooting down the bombers as well as warning night
fighters that they have an enemy target.
>Was there a time delay between the activation and fusing, or
>would it just start buring right away?
I obviously didn't try it to find out if there was a delay. I suspect
it was instantaneous initiation.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> One of the activities of my mis-spent youth was learning to pick
> locks. I won't claim much proficiency, but given the proper tools,
> tubular type locks are trivial:
> http://www.lockpickshop.com/c-SPT.html
> However, unless it's one of those tiny cheapo locks like on the front
> panel of older IBM clones, it usually takes me about 5-10 minutes to
> open an ACE type lock.
Holy Toledo, you be slow. Or, which class do you consider the Kensington
to be in? I wasn't able to do it myself, but there are videos on that net
purporting to be of various people opening the Kryptonite and Kensington
locks in 10-15 seconds.
In my case, it has been established that the laptop disppeared within a
_very_ short period. Two different people came to my office. One saw the
laptop, the other did not. The thief either happened to have my same key,
or some pick, or the "as seen on internet" method.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>
>> Anyway, cable security devices make lots of sense with laptops that
>> are used primarily as a desktop replacement.
>
>The cylindrical locks are worthless in that environment. Less than 10
>seconds to open my Kensington.
How about the patented tamper-resistant locking mechanism in the Notebook
Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian (the actual product in my earlier post)?
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <90jsm15epheltqfe5f74iv0s8btnejps76@4ax.com> on Sun, 06 Nov 2005 11:15:09
-0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:19:46 GMT, John Navas
><spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>In <04dom1h8889km5057lqedjsug7iq52rs4k@4ax.com> on Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:46:15
>>GMT, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:43:14 GMT, John Navas
>>><spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian ($60 retail), which has a patented
>>>>tamper-resistant locking mechanism and an extra strong cable, is generally
>>>>considered to be the best notebook computer security device.
>>>><http://www.pcguardian.com/Notebook_Security/Notebook_Guardian_Ultra_2001.html>
>>>
>>>According to the web page:
>>> Heavy duty cable
>>> The thicker cable holds up against ordinary wire cutters.
>>>
>>>I can cut it in 10 seconds with a battery operated Dremel tool and an
>>>abrasive cutoff disk. I've demonstrated this using bicycle cables and
>>>locks at one meeting. Wrapping the Dremel tool in foam or padding
>>>really cuts down on the noise but speed is sufficient to cut and run.
>
>>The regular version or the Ultra version? The latter is considerably more
>>resistant to cutting than the former, and I'm skeptical that a Dremel could do
>>the job anywhere near that fast.
>
>No. I demonstrated it on a typical cheap bicycle cable lock. It was
>a steel cable about 1/4" in diameter and quite heavy.
Weight is less important than hardness. My bicycle lock is hardened, and I'm
willing to bet that your Dremel would find it tough going.
>The PC Guardian cable is .3125 dia galvanized steel as 6 bundles of 37
>strands with a steel core.
Standard or Ultra? Hardness?
>That will probably require more than my
>typical 10 seconds to cut, but not much more.
I'm still skeptical. I attacked an Ultra cable with a bolt cutter, and it
took quite a long time to work through it.
>If I really wanted the
>laptop, I would probably attack what looks like a typical aluminum
>Nyco-press cable sleeve clamp on the end loop. The cutoff disk will
>probably clog and bog, but a rotary saw blade will go through the
>aluminum like butter.
Again, I'm referring to the Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian, not a
lesser product.
>Try the Dremel cutoff tool on some stainless rigging cable (off the
>vessel) and see how easily and cleanly it cuts. I haven't used bolt
>cutters in years. Too much work.
The Dremel tool would be utterly useless without power, as in a storm at sea.
I have Big stainless bolt cutters that easily do the job on heavy rigging. If
you're really serious, there's a .22-powered cutter
<http://www.landfallnavigation.com/snrs1.html> that makes it childs play,
albeit with a fair amount of noise. ;)
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> In <dklnn8$pj2$1@blue.rahul.net> on Sun, 6 Nov 2005 20:06:00 +0000 (UTC),
> dold@XReXXGpsXf.usenet.us.com wrote:
>>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>>> Anyway, cable security devices make lots of sense with laptops that
>>> are used primarily as a desktop replacement.
>>The cylindrical locks are worthless in that environment. Less than 10
>>seconds to open my Kensington.
> How about the patented tamper-resistant locking mechanism in the Notebook
> Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian (the actual product in my earlier post)?
Sorry. I named the brand, as that is the only one that I have put to
unfortunate test.
I used the Kensington religiously, even fanatically, and it failed me.
I now have a combination lock. I am not overly concerned about how well it
would withstand an attack with bolt cutters or a dremel mototool, as I
generally lock it to something that wouldn't tolerate real attack. I also
think that a dremel cutting through steel would be nearly as loud as Jeff's
Sonalert device.
I am disappointed that Kensington continues to sell a lock that has been
the subject of lawsuits, and, for an additional fee, carries a guarantee
against loss, but only if the lock is damaged.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 22:07:22 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>Weight is less important than hardness. My bicycle lock is hardened, and I'm
>willing to bet that your Dremel would find it tough going.
I'm not attacking the lock. That's usually the strongest part. I
attack the cable, which the Dremel cuts through like butter. I'm a
bit concerned about the steel core in the cable, but if it's
relatively small diameter, it should be no problem.
>>The PC Guardian cable is .3125 dia galvanized steel as 6 bundles of 37
>>strands with a steel core.
>
>Standard or Ultra? Hardness?
The data sheet didn't say. I just read it on the URL you posted.
>>That will probably require more than my
>>typical 10 seconds to cut, but not much more.
>
>I'm still skeptical. I attacked an Ultra cable with a bolt cutter, and it
>took quite a long time to work through it.
Well, I learned the art of cable cutting while working on radio towers
in Smog Angeles. We're on top of a mountain and nobody remembered to
bring a bolt cutter. The rigging was 3/16" and 1/4" galvanized wire
rope. I tried to cut it with a hack saw. Bad idea. Someone found an
abrasive disk grinder which chewed through the cable almost instantly.
The next day, we came back with various cutoff devices. The little
Dremel worked the best. Incidentally, don't try it with a dentists
drill. The one we had spun at about 10,000rpm and did an impressive
job of fragmenting the disk.
When I get rid of the cold I've caught, I'll dribble over to the shop
and make a short video clip of me chopping through some cable. I
won't have a PC Guardian cable, but I should have some cable
somewhere.
Incidentally, cable locks are considered a bad joke in the bicycle
mailing lists and web piles.
>>If I really wanted the
>>laptop, I would probably attack what looks like a typical aluminum
>>Nyco-press cable sleeve clamp on the end loop. The cutoff disk will
>>probably clog and bog, but a rotary saw blade will go through the
>>aluminum like butter.
>
>Again, I'm referring to the Notebook Guardian Ultra by PC Guardian, not a
>lesser product.
I've never seen one, but the photograph at the above URL seems to show
a common aluminum Nyco-Press clamp.
>>Try the Dremel cutoff tool on some stainless rigging cable (off the
>>vessel) and see how easily and cleanly it cuts. I haven't used bolt
>>cutters in years. Too much work.
>
>The Dremel tool would be utterly useless without power, as in a storm at sea.
>I have Big stainless bolt cutters that easily do the job on heavy rigging. If
>you're really serious, there's a .22-powered cutter
><http://www.landfallnavigation.com/snrs1.html> that makes it childs play,
>albeit with a fair amount of noise. ;)
Nice. Kinda like my Ramset gun. It claims it will do 14mm (0.55")
diameter cable. I'm not sure I would want to hold that device when it
cuts.
Drivel: Old business.
1. I didn't get a reply on GPS enabled phones for Cingular yet.
2. I never could figure out how to do a chi square randomness test on
the various generated encryption keys.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> Incidentally, cable locks are considered a bad joke in the bicycle
> mailing lists and web piles.
Sure... _now_ I know that. ;-(
How long have you known?
That's one of several that I found. Of course, you don't know what magic
was involved with the filming of that clip.
There's another one at some bike show, where the guy walks up to a vendor,
picks up a Kryptonite cable lock, takes a pen from some guy, whittles the
end of the barrel, and does his work. The narration says all the yada-yada
about no one knowing anyone, etc.
It occured to me later that the lock should be out of position after being
cracked in this fashion. If I unlocked it with the key, I had to return to
the locked position before I could remove my key. If I had opened it with
something that didn't have that extra nub on the outside, the lock wouldn't
have to return to the locked position. That would leave it unusable, since
I wouldn't be able to insert my key to turn it back.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>> Incidentally, cable locks are considered a bad joke in the bicycle
>> mailing lists and web piles.
>Sure... _now_ I know that. ;-(
>How long have you known?
About 40 years. Back when I was a juvenile delinquent.
>That's one of several that I found. Of course, you don't know what magic
>was involved with the filming of that clip.
>There's another one at some bike show, where the guy walks up to a vendor,
>picks up a Kryptonite cable lock, takes a pen from some guy, whittles the
>end of the barrel, and does his work. The narration says all the yada-yada
>about no one knowing anyone, etc.
>
>It occured to me later that the lock should be out of position after being
>cracked in this fashion. If I unlocked it with the key, I had to return to
>the locked position before I could remove my key. If I had opened it with
>something that didn't have that extra nub on the outside, the lock wouldn't
>have to return to the locked position. That would leave it unusable, since
>I wouldn't be able to insert my key to turn it back.
Not so. One of the videos listed above showed the owner re-locking
and re-opening the lock several times. However, it is possible to
have that happen.
Gps for misplaced laptop? 
Linear Mode
