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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2011, 01:45 AM
Shadow
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Posts: n/a
Default Half OT, question for Jeff

I have a DSL modem (Thomson aka SpeedtouchTG508) connected to my ISP,
and between that and the other PCs in the house, a Netgear WGR614v9
wireless router. Recently it takes up to 5 minutes to logon (it used
to take a minute, at most).

I copied and pasted the syslog from the DSL modem:

[Thu Aug 05 14:22:09 2010]:[SYS] Cold reboot
[Thu Aug 05 14:22:09 2010]:[UPNP] UPnP daemon is ready to run
[Thu Aug 05 14:22:10 2010]:[DHCPD] Recive REQUEST
[Thu Aug 05 14:22:10 2010]:[DHCPD] no leases, packet->ciaddr:c0a80102
[Thu Aug 05 14:22:11 2010]:[DHCPD] sending ACK to 192.168.1.2
[Thu Aug 05 14:22:11 2010]:[DHCPD] unicasting packet to client ciaddr
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:41 2010]:[ADSL] ATM bandwidth check failed.
Adjustment is NEEDED !!
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:42 2010]:[ADSL] max_pcr=2900 MUST <= 1660 - 0
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:42 2010]:[ADSL] ATM bandwidth check failed.
Adjustment is NEEDED !!
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:43 2010]:[ADSL] max_pcr=2900 MUST <= 1660 - 1660
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:43 2010]:[POE] ppp0 do connect
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:44 2010]:[POE] clear ppp0 auth fail log
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:44 2010]:[POE] ppp0 connect mode=0
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:45 2010]:[POE] ppp0 start...
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:45 2010]:[POE] ppp0 (VC0) send PADI
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:47 2010]:[POE] ppp0 rcv PADO
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:48 2010]:[POE] Send PADR, Enter PPPOE_SREQ
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:48 2010]:[POE] ppp0 rcv PADS
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:49 2010]:[PPP] ipcp up
[Thu Aug 05 14:25:49 2010]:[IGMP] forward multicast group
239.255.255.250.

And then it works ... I'm connected

Why the interval with the max_pcr error ? I have not changed
any settings ..... none that I can remember, anyway. Might have
twiddled with the firewall. Is this an ISP error, or is the wireless
router at fault ? Or just a classical PBKAC error ?
TIA

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2011, 03:36 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Half OT, question for Jeff

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 00:45:18 -0200, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

>I have a DSL modem (Thomson aka SpeedtouchTG508) connected to my ISP,
>and between that and the other PCs in the house, a Netgear WGR614v9
>wireless router. Recently it takes up to 5 minutes to logon (it used
>to take a minute, at most).
>
>I copied and pasted the syslog from the DSL modem:
>
>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:09 2010]:[SYS] Cold reboot
>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:09 2010]:[UPNP] UPnP daemon is ready to run
>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:10 2010]:[DHCPD] Recive REQUEST
>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:10 2010]:[DHCPD] no leases, packet->ciaddr:c0a80102
>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:11 2010]:[DHCPD] sending ACK to 192.168.1.2
>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:11 2010]:[DHCPD] unicasting packet to client ciaddr
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:41 2010]:[ADSL] ATM bandwidth check failed.
>Adjustment is NEEDED !!
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:42 2010]:[ADSL] max_pcr=2900 MUST <= 1660 - 0
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:42 2010]:[ADSL] ATM bandwidth check failed.
>Adjustment is NEEDED !!
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:43 2010]:[ADSL] max_pcr=2900 MUST <= 1660 - 1660
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:43 2010]:[POE] ppp0 do connect
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:44 2010]:[POE] clear ppp0 auth fail log
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:44 2010]:[POE] ppp0 connect mode=0
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:45 2010]:[POE] ppp0 start...
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:45 2010]:[POE] ppp0 (VC0) send PADI
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:47 2010]:[POE] ppp0 rcv PADO
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:48 2010]:[POE] Send PADR, Enter PPPOE_SREQ
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:48 2010]:[POE] ppp0 rcv PADS
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:49 2010]:[PPP] ipcp up
>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:49 2010]:[IGMP] forward multicast group
>239.255.255.250.
>
> And then it works ... I'm connected


4 min from start to finish. A bit long but not too horrible.

> Why the interval with the max_pcr error ?


max_pcr (peak cell rate) has something to do with QoS at the ATM
level. My guess(tm) is that the adaptive equalizer in the DSL modem
is complaining that it can't get a decent signal and therefore
insufficient bandwidth. Forget about the error log for now and check
the Line level and the SNR (signal to noise ratio).
<http://www.dslreports.com/faq/16220>

>I have not changed
>any settings ..... none that I can remember, anyway.


There might be a problem on the phone line or with whatever you're
using for a DSL splitter or microfilter. Are you getting decent
speeds after it connects?
<http://www.speedtest.org>
Does it crap out when the phone rings?

>Might have
>twiddled with the firewall.


Nope. This is at the lowest (ATM) level of the DSL modem, well below
the firewall.

>Is this an ISP error, or is the wireless
>router at fault ?


I don't know. Give me some signal quality numbers (line level and
SNR).

>Or just a classical PBKAC error ?


<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_error>
Nope. Always blame someone else first. Then fix the problem.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2011, 07:16 PM
Shadow
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Half OT, question for Jeff

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:36:14 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 00:45:18 -0200, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
>
>>I have a DSL modem (Thomson aka SpeedtouchTG508) connected to my ISP,
>>and between that and the other PCs in the house, a Netgear WGR614v9
>>wireless router. Recently it takes up to 5 minutes to logon (it used
>>to take a minute, at most).
>>
>>I copied and pasted the syslog from the DSL modem:
>>
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:09 2010]:[SYS] Cold reboot
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:09 2010]:[UPNP] UPnP daemon is ready to run
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:10 2010]:[DHCPD] Recive REQUEST
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:10 2010]:[DHCPD] no leases, packet->ciaddr:c0a80102
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:11 2010]:[DHCPD] sending ACK to 192.168.1.2
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:22:11 2010]:[DHCPD] unicasting packet to client ciaddr

the error is here ...... nothing happens for over 3 minutes
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:41 2010]:[ADSL] ATM bandwidth check failed.
>>Adjustment is NEEDED !!
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:42 2010]:[ADSL] max_pcr=2900 MUST <= 1660 - 0
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:42 2010]:[ADSL] ATM bandwidth check failed.
>>Adjustment is NEEDED !!
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:43 2010]:[ADSL] max_pcr=2900 MUST <= 1660 - 1660
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:43 2010]:[POE] ppp0 do connect
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:44 2010]:[POE] clear ppp0 auth fail log
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:44 2010]:[POE] ppp0 connect mode=0
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:45 2010]:[POE] ppp0 start...
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:45 2010]:[POE] ppp0 (VC0) send PADI
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:47 2010]:[POE] ppp0 rcv PADO
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:48 2010]:[POE] Send PADR, Enter PPPOE_SREQ
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:48 2010]:[POE] ppp0 rcv PADS
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:49 2010]:[PPP] ipcp up
>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:49 2010]:[IGMP] forward multicast group
>>239.255.255.250.
>>
>> And then it works ... I'm connected

>
>4 min from start to finish. A bit long but not too horrible.

I got a 11 minute lag this morning, before adjusting the pcr.
>
>> Why the interval with the max_pcr error ?

>
>max_pcr (peak cell rate) has something to do with QoS at the ATM
>level. My guess(tm) is that the adaptive equalizer in the DSL modem
>is complaining that it can't get a decent signal and therefore
>insufficient bandwidth. Forget about the error log for now and check
>the Line level and the SNR (signal to noise ratio).
><http://www.dslreports.com/faq/16220>DSL Connection


Link Information

Uptime: 02:47:51
Modulation: ANSI T.1413
Line Status: Show Time
DSL Type: Interleaved Path
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 704 / 2304

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 6 / 12.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 21.0 / 40.0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 13
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3
I did try:
http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/Isolation_Test

With all phones unplugged: (other data was unchanged)

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 6 / 12.3
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 21.0 / 40.0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

I finally managed to find a way to configure the pcr to
1660/1660/10, and I get no more errors. Still that 3-4 minute lag
between the DHCP to the netgear and PPPoE routine starting up.
(see below)
>
>>I have not changed
>>any settings ..... none that I can remember, anyway.

>
>There might be a problem on the phone line or with whatever you're
>using for a DSL splitter or microfilter. Are you getting decent
>speeds after it connects?
><http://www.speedtest.org>

1.98Mb/s, which is what I pay for ... (2Mb/s)
>Does it crap out when the phone rings?

Nope
>

....
>>Is this an ISP error, or is the wireless
>>router at fault ?

Addendum: I managed to cut the time by a whole minute. I found
that the Netgear was interpreting the ICMP packets from the modem as a
DDoS attack(was in the logs), so I enabled "allow ping from internet"
on the Netgear. I have them disallowed on the modem.
Learnt something today. Thanks for the links.
[]'s
PS but still don't understand why I had to lower the max_pcr
value.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 03:18 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Half OT, question for Jeff

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:16:02 -0200, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

>the error is here ...... nothing happens for over 3 minutes
>>>[Thu Aug 05 14:25:41 2010]:[ADSL] ATM bandwidth check failed.
>>>Adjustment is NEEDED !!


>Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 6 / 12.5
>SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 21.0 / 40.0
>CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 13
>HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3


Looks very good. It's not signal levels.

> I did try:
>http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/Isolation_Test
>With all phones unplugged: (other data was unchanged)


Unplugging all the phones is one way to test for filter problems.
However, it leaves the inside wiring in place. The wiring is often a
problem. So, instead of unplugging everything except the DSL modem, I
suggest you run a dedicated phone line to the NID (network interface
device) and unplug the entire house at the NID. If it's too long a
line, then just temporarily move the DSL modem near the NID and
retest.

> I finally managed to find a way to configure the pcr to
>1660/1660/10, and I get no more errors. Still that 3-4 minute lag
>between the DHCP to the netgear and PPPoE routine starting up.


Weird. Could be two different problems. Note that AT&T supplied DSL
modems in the USA do not allow that level of configuration. The
settings pages are there in the modem firmware, but are not user
accessible. Check with your ISP for a recommended set of operating
parameters (which are not necessarily the default settings).

> Addendum: I managed to cut the time by a whole minute. I found
>that the Netgear was interpreting the ICMP packets from the modem as a
>DDoS attack(was in the logs), so I enabled "allow ping from internet"
>on the Netgear. I have them disallowed on the modem.


Weird. Thanks for the pointer. I'll look out for that.

> PS but still don't understand why I had to lower the max_pcr
>value.


Sorry, but I don't either. The value should be automagically set.
Perhaps that DSL modem is guessing as to the correct value and takes
few tries to make the determination?

Incidentally, a test of startup time on my Efficient 4100 DSL modem
using fping:

> 2011/11/15 08:13:49 : Reply[11] from 63.249.85.1: bytes=32 time=14.9 ms TTL=63
> 2011/11/15 08:13:50 : Reply[12] from 63.249.85.1: bytes=32 time=13.8 ms TTL=63
> 2011/11/15 08:13:52 : 63.249.85.1: request timed out
> 2011/11/15 08:13:53 : 63.249.85.1: request timed out

(...)
> 2011/11/15 08:14:21 : 63.249.85.1: request timed out
> 2011/11/15 08:14:22 : 63.249.85.1: request timed out
> 2011/11/15 08:14:22 : Reply[42] from 63.249.85.1: bytes=32 time=38.7 ms TTL=63
> 2011/11/15 08:14:23 : Reply[43] from 63.249.85.1: bytes=32 time=12.8 ms TTL=63


About 32 seconds. Perhaps if you try a different modem...

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:31 PM
Shadow
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Half OT, question for Jeff

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:18:32 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>
>Incidentally, a test of startup time on my Efficient 4100 DSL modem
>using fping:
>
>> 2011/11/15 08:13:49 : Reply[11] from 63.249.85.1: bytes=32 time=14.9 ms TTL=63
>> 2011/11/15 08:13:50 : Reply[12] from 63.249.85.1: bytes=32 time=13.8 ms TTL=63
>> 2011/11/15 08:13:52 : 63.249.85.1: request timed out
>> 2011/11/15 08:13:53 : 63.249.85.1: request timed out

>(...)
>> 2011/11/15 08:14:21 : 63.249.85.1: request timed out
>> 2011/11/15 08:14:22 : 63.249.85.1: request timed out
>> 2011/11/15 08:14:22 : Reply[42] from 63.249.85.1: bytes=32 time=38.7 ms TTL=63
>> 2011/11/15 08:14:23 : Reply[43] from 63.249.85.1: bytes=32 time=12.8 ms TTL=63

>
>About 32 seconds. Perhaps if you try a different modem...


My time AFTER my netgear has established a connection with the modem:

[Tue Nov 15 16:58:30 2011]:[POE] ppp0 do disconnect
I order modem to disconnect dsl then reconnect (via web interface)

[Tue Nov 15 16:58:30 2011]:[PPP] ipcp down
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:31 2011]:[POE] send PADT(4065)
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:32 2011]:[UPNP] UPnP daemon is stopped
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:33 2011]:[UPNP] UPnP daemon is ready to run
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:33 2011]:[IGMP] forward multicast group
239.255.255.250.
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:40 2011]:[POE] ppp0 do connect
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:40 2011]:[POE] ppp0 connect mode=0
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:41 2011]:[POE] ppp0 start...
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:41 2011]:[POE] ppp0 (VC0) send PADI
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:42 2011]:[POE] ppp0 rcv PADO
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:42 2011]:[POE] Send PADR, Enter PPPOE_SREQ
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:43 2011]:[POE] ppp0 rcv PADS
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:43 2011]:[POE] Enter PPPOE_CONNECTED,
Session_ID=5372
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:44 2011]:[POE] ppp0 do connect
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:44 2011]:[PPP] start lcp stage
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:45 2011]:[PPP] ipcp up
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:45 2011]:[PPP] Got gateway IP XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX
[Tue Nov 15 16:58:46 2011]:[NTP] Sync with ptbtime1.ptb.de

16 seconds .....
Delay has something to do with the DHCP between netgear and
modem. If a connection is already established, it's really fast.
[]'s

As to the max_pcr, I heard everyone in town (small town in
interior of Brazil) had troubles connecting yesterday. Even the local
WISP could not get their connection up. Apparently, I was the only one
with a stable connection, after I altered the max_pcr. No idea if this
was a coincidence. The ISP recommends 2900, I'm at 1660
Googling "max_pcr=2900" no quotes gives me just about every
linux source code for dsl providers ........
Example:
http://www4.informatik.uni-erlangen....horizon.c.html
:)
I also got this:
PCR: Peak Cell Rate (PCR) is the maximum rate at which the
sender can send cells. This parameter may be lower (but not
higher) than the maximum line speed. 1 ATM cell is 53 bytes (424
bits), so a maximum speed of 832 Kbps gives a maximum PCR of 1962
cells/sec. This rate is not guaranteed because it is dependent on the
line speed.
SCR: Sustained Cell Rate (SCR) is the mean cell rate of a bursty,
on-off traffic source that can be sent at the peak rate, and a
parameter for burst-type traffic. SCR may not be greater than the PCR;
the system default is 0 cells/sec.
MBS: Maximum Burst Size (MBS) is the maximum number of cells that can
be sent at the PCR. After MBS is reached, cell rates fall below SCR
until cell rate averages to the SCR again. At this time, more cells
(up to the MBS) can be sent at the PCR again.
CBR is for connections that support constant rates of data
transfer. The only parameter you need to worry about in CBR is
PCR.
UBR is for connections that have variable traffic. The only parameter
you need to worry about in UBR is PCR.
rtVBR is for connections that, while having variable traffic, require
precise timing between traffic source and destination. PCR, SCR and
MBS must all be set for rtVBR.
nrtVBR is for connections that have variable traffic, do not require
precise timing, but still require a set bandwidth availability. PCR,
SCR and MBS must all be set for nrtVBR.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2011, 03:21 PM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Half OT, question for Jeff

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:31:21 -0200, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

> Delay has something to do with the DHCP between netgear and
>modem. If a connection is already established, it's really fast.


I have all my DSL modems setup for bridging with the PPPoE
login/passwd in the router, not the modem. That eliminates the DHCP
negotiation between the WAN side of the router router and modem.

> As to the max_pcr, I heard everyone in town (small town in
>interior of Brazil) had troubles connecting yesterday. Even the local
>WISP could not get their connection up. Apparently, I was the only one
>with a stable connection, after I altered the max_pcr. No idea if this
>was a coincidence. The ISP recommends 2900, I'm at 1660


Sigh. If it was everyone, then something probably changed in the
DSLAM at the ATM level.

>PCR: Peak Cell Rate (PCR) is the maximum rate at which the
>sender can send cells. This parameter may be lower (but not
>higher) than the maximum line speed. 1 ATM cell is 53 bytes (424
>bits), so a maximum speed of 832 Kbps gives a maximum PCR of 1962
>cells/sec. This rate is not guaranteed because it is dependent on the
>line speed.


Hmmm... seems like someone decided to apply a rate cap to everyone. If
you put max_pcr=2900 back, does it now work normally (no errors in the
logs)?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2011, 08:35 PM
Shadow
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Half OT, question for Jeff

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:21:26 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:31:21 -0200, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
>
>> Delay has something to do with the DHCP between netgear and
>>modem. If a connection is already established, it's really fast.

>
>I have all my DSL modems setup for bridging with the PPPoE
>login/passwd in the router, not the modem. That eliminates the DHCP
>negotiation between the WAN side of the router router and modem.

What I'm going to do.
>
>> As to the max_pcr, I heard everyone in town (small town in
>>interior of Brazil) had troubles connecting yesterday. Even the local
>>WISP could not get their connection up. Apparently, I was the only one
>>with a stable connection, after I altered the max_pcr. No idea if this
>>was a coincidence. The ISP recommends 2900, I'm at 1660

>
>Sigh. If it was everyone, then something probably changed in the
>DSLAM at the ATM level.
>
>>PCR: Peak Cell Rate (PCR) is the maximum rate at which the
>>sender can send cells. This parameter may be lower (but not
>>higher) than the maximum line speed. 1 ATM cell is 53 bytes (424
>>bits), so a maximum speed of 832 Kbps gives a maximum PCR of 1962
>>cells/sec. This rate is not guaranteed because it is dependent on the
>>line speed.

>
>Hmmm... seems like someone decided to apply a rate cap to everyone. If
>you put max_pcr=2900 back, does it now work normally (no errors in the
>logs)?

[Wed Nov 16 16:11:42 2011]:[FW] **Port Scan Detected** 74.125.47.132
-> XXX.10.52.46, deny 74.125.47.132 for 5 mins

:) Evil

[Wed Nov 16 18:26:40 2011]:[ADSL] ATM bandwidth check failed.
Adjustment is NEEDED !!
[Wed Nov 16 18:26:40 2011]:[ADSL] max_pcr=2900 MUST <= 1660 - 0
[Wed Nov 16 18:26:41 2011]:[POE] ppp0 do disconnect

I tried it again a minute later, and it came up, no problems.

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