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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2007, 09:25 PM
StandardGreen
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Posts: n/a
Default How does a computer differentiate between ad-hoc and infrastructure networks?

When I look at available wireless networks, Windows XP differentiates
between the WLAN and any nearby ad-hoc networks. How? I'm assuming
that there is some kind of identifying bit in the packets.
Furthermore, to those that know the answer to the question, where do
you learn this? I'd like to find your sources so I can get tips on
finding this stuff out for myself.

Thanks,
StandardGreen


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:01 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How does a computer differentiate between ad-hoc and infrastructure networks?

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:25:17 -0000, StandardGreen
<StandardGreen@gmail.com> wrote:

>When I look at available wireless networks, Windows XP differentiates
>between the WLAN and any nearby ad-hoc networks. How? I'm assuming
>that there is some kind of identifying bit in the packets.


The information is in IEEE 802.11-1999 specs found at:
<http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/802.11.html>
Section 5.6 explains the difference between AdHoc and Infrastructure
modes. The problem is that the IEEE calls them IBSS (adhoc) and ESS
(infrastructure) modes. A client bridge is also known as an STA.
Reading IEEE specs turns my brain to mush. Therefore, I suggest you
digest the technobabble and acronyms in small bites.

Also see:
<http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/11/Tutorial/>

The info is in the probe response frame (which also supplies the SSID)
as in 7.2.3.9. Specifically, it's in the IBSS (adhoc) Parameter Set.
If it's an ESS (infrastructure) access point that's responding, the
field is blank.

It might be helpful if you try a wireless sniffer and looked at the
packets involved. See Wireshark at:
<http://www.wireshark.com>

>Furthermore, to those that know the answer to the question, where do
>you learn this? I'd like to find your sources so I can get tips on
>finding this stuff out for myself.


A more simplified list of frame types can be found at:
<http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1447501>

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:33 PM
Curt Christianson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How does a computer differentiate between ad-hoc and infrastructure networks?

Good afternoon,

Can somebody recommend a good "wireless sniffer" to see what's running in my
neighborhood? I'm running XP SP2. I'm currently using "Netstumbler" as it
shows my wi-fi S/N ratio. Is NetStumbler good enough?

TIA for your time,

--
Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:f6krd3ho0l3dta7vnp8qoircm6eo08bv5h@4ax.com...
| On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:25:17 -0000, StandardGreen
| <StandardGreen@gmail.com> wrote:
|
| >When I look at available wireless networks, Windows XP differentiates
| >between the WLAN and any nearby ad-hoc networks. How? I'm assuming
| >that there is some kind of identifying bit in the packets.
|
| The information is in IEEE 802.11-1999 specs found at:
| <http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/802.11.html>
| Section 5.6 explains the difference between AdHoc and Infrastructure
| modes. The problem is that the IEEE calls them IBSS (adhoc) and ESS
| (infrastructure) modes. A client bridge is also known as an STA.
| Reading IEEE specs turns my brain to mush. Therefore, I suggest you
| digest the technobabble and acronyms in small bites.
|
| Also see:
| <http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/11/Tutorial/>
|
| The info is in the probe response frame (which also supplies the SSID)
| as in 7.2.3.9. Specifically, it's in the IBSS (adhoc) Parameter Set.
| If it's an ESS (infrastructure) access point that's responding, the
| field is blank.
|
| It might be helpful if you try a wireless sniffer and looked at the
| packets involved. See Wireshark at:
| <http://www.wireshark.com>
|
| >Furthermore, to those that know the answer to the question, where do
| >you learn this? I'd like to find your sources so I can get tips on
| >finding this stuff out for myself.
|
| A more simplified list of frame types can be found at:
| <http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1447501>
|
| --
| # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
| # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
| # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
| # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:40 PM
Dana
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How does a computer differentiate between ad-hoc and infrastructure networks?


"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13eb70s2nhaosdc@corp.supernews.com...
> Good afternoon,
>
> Can somebody recommend a good "wireless sniffer" to see what's running in
> my
> neighborhood? I'm running XP SP2. I'm currently using "Netstumbler" as
> it
> shows my wi-fi S/N ratio. Is NetStumbler good enough?
>
> TIA for your time,


I like it.
This link below also shows a neat device that I use. Of course a spectrum
analyzer and protocol analyzer is also reccomended. But these high priced
devices are not needed for casual use.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/80ce/
>
> --
> Curt
>
> Windows Support Center
> www.aumha.org
> Practically Nerded,...
> http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm
>
> "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:f6krd3ho0l3dta7vnp8qoircm6eo08bv5h@4ax.com...
> | On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:25:17 -0000, StandardGreen
> | <StandardGreen@gmail.com> wrote:
> |
> | >When I look at available wireless networks, Windows XP differentiates
> | >between the WLAN and any nearby ad-hoc networks. How? I'm assuming
> | >that there is some kind of identifying bit in the packets.
> |
> | The information is in IEEE 802.11-1999 specs found at:
> | <http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/802.11.html>
> | Section 5.6 explains the difference between AdHoc and Infrastructure
> | modes. The problem is that the IEEE calls them IBSS (adhoc) and ESS
> | (infrastructure) modes. A client bridge is also known as an STA.
> | Reading IEEE specs turns my brain to mush. Therefore, I suggest you
> | digest the technobabble and acronyms in small bites.
> |
> | Also see:
> | <http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/11/Tutorial/>
> |
> | The info is in the probe response frame (which also supplies the SSID)
> | as in 7.2.3.9. Specifically, it's in the IBSS (adhoc) Parameter Set.
> | If it's an ESS (infrastructure) access point that's responding, the
> | field is blank.
> |
> | It might be helpful if you try a wireless sniffer and looked at the
> | packets involved. See Wireshark at:
> | <http://www.wireshark.com>
> |
> | >Furthermore, to those that know the answer to the question, where do
> | >you learn this? I'd like to find your sources so I can get tips on
> | >finding this stuff out for myself.
> |
> | A more simplified list of frame types can be found at:
> | <http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1447501>
> |
> | --
> | # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> | # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> | # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
> | # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
>
>




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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:41 PM
Curt Christianson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How does a computer differentiate between ad-hoc and infrastructure networks?

Sorry, Posted here in error. Will start a new thread.

--

Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13eb70s2nhaosdc@corp.supernews.com...
| Good afternoon,
|
| Can somebody recommend a good "wireless sniffer" to see what's running in
my
| neighborhood? I'm running XP SP2. I'm currently using "Netstumbler" as
it
| shows my wi-fi S/N ratio. Is NetStumbler good enough?
|
| TIA for your time,
|
| --
| Curt
|
| Windows Support Center
| www.aumha.org
| Practically Nerded,...
| http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm
|
| "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
| news:f6krd3ho0l3dta7vnp8qoircm6eo08bv5h@4ax.com...
|| On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:25:17 -0000, StandardGreen
|| <StandardGreen@gmail.com> wrote:
||
|| >When I look at available wireless networks, Windows XP differentiates
|| >between the WLAN and any nearby ad-hoc networks. How? I'm assuming
|| >that there is some kind of identifying bit in the packets.
||
|| The information is in IEEE 802.11-1999 specs found at:
|| <http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/802.11.html>
|| Section 5.6 explains the difference between AdHoc and Infrastructure
|| modes. The problem is that the IEEE calls them IBSS (adhoc) and ESS
|| (infrastructure) modes. A client bridge is also known as an STA.
|| Reading IEEE specs turns my brain to mush. Therefore, I suggest you
|| digest the technobabble and acronyms in small bites.
||
|| Also see:
|| <http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/11/Tutorial/>
||
|| The info is in the probe response frame (which also supplies the SSID)
|| as in 7.2.3.9. Specifically, it's in the IBSS (adhoc) Parameter Set.
|| If it's an ESS (infrastructure) access point that's responding, the
|| field is blank.
||
|| It might be helpful if you try a wireless sniffer and looked at the
|| packets involved. See Wireshark at:
|| <http://www.wireshark.com>
||
|| >Furthermore, to those that know the answer to the question, where do
|| >you learn this? I'd like to find your sources so I can get tips on
|| >finding this stuff out for myself.
||
|| A more simplified list of frame types can be found at:
|| <http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1447501>
||
|| --
|| # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
|| # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
|| # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
|| # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
|
|



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:48 PM
Curt Christianson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How does a computer differentiate between ad-hoc and infrastructure networks?

Thank you Dana--even though this post got accidently mixed in with this
thread. I'm somewhat of a NG veteran, and should know better. I'll check
out your link.

Thanks again,

--
Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Dana" <raff242@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:83ccf$46e59d9e$944e306e$25882@STARBAND.NET...
|
| "Curt Christianson" <curtchristnsn@NOSPAM.Yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:13eb70s2nhaosdc@corp.supernews.com...
| > Good afternoon,
| >
| > Can somebody recommend a good "wireless sniffer" to see what's running
in
| > my
| > neighborhood? I'm running XP SP2. I'm currently using "Netstumbler" as
| > it
| > shows my wi-fi S/N ratio. Is NetStumbler good enough?
| >
| > TIA for your time,
|
| I like it.
| This link below also shows a neat device that I use. Of course a spectrum
| analyzer and protocol analyzer is also reccomended. But these high priced
| devices are not needed for casual use.
| http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/80ce/
| >
| > --
| > Curt
| >
| > Windows Support Center
| > www.aumha.org
| > Practically Nerded,...
| > http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm
| >
| > "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
| > news:f6krd3ho0l3dta7vnp8qoircm6eo08bv5h@4ax.com...
| > | On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:25:17 -0000, StandardGreen
| > | <StandardGreen@gmail.com> wrote:
| > |
| > | >When I look at available wireless networks, Windows XP differentiates
| > | >between the WLAN and any nearby ad-hoc networks. How? I'm assuming
| > | >that there is some kind of identifying bit in the packets.
| > |
| > | The information is in IEEE 802.11-1999 specs found at:
| > | <http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/802.11.html>
| > | Section 5.6 explains the difference between AdHoc and Infrastructure
| > | modes. The problem is that the IEEE calls them IBSS (adhoc) and ESS
| > | (infrastructure) modes. A client bridge is also known as an STA.
| > | Reading IEEE specs turns my brain to mush. Therefore, I suggest you
| > | digest the technobabble and acronyms in small bites.
| > |
| > | Also see:
| > | <http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/11/Tutorial/>
| > |
| > | The info is in the probe response frame (which also supplies the SSID)
| > | as in 7.2.3.9. Specifically, it's in the IBSS (adhoc) Parameter Set.
| > | If it's an ESS (infrastructure) access point that's responding, the
| > | field is blank.
| > |
| > | It might be helpful if you try a wireless sniffer and looked at the
| > | packets involved. See Wireshark at:
| > | <http://www.wireshark.com>
| > |
| > | >Furthermore, to those that know the answer to the question, where do
| > | >you learn this? I'd like to find your sources so I can get tips on
| > | >finding this stuff out for myself.
| > |
| > | A more simplified list of frame types can be found at:
| > | <http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/1447501>
| > |
| > | --
| > | # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
| > | # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
| > | # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
| > | # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
| >
| >
|
|



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