How to start?

Hi guys! (and gals).

I'm looking to set up a wifi lan and need help getting started. What I have
now is Yahoo DSL with a wireless device sitting on top of my computer and
NIC card in one box. Nothing else is hooked up at all.

What I want to do is hook up 2 Windows boxes (one PRO, and one Home), and
one Linux (ubuntu) box on a wifi scheme.

I have NO idea how to get up to speed, due to too much input and my head is
about to explode:)

I haven't bought any equipment yet and need help with brands and model
numbers (especially due to the Ubuntu box, right?).

All PC's are within 100 ft of each other, although one must go through 3
walls. I'm thinking of an antenea, outside, so all PC's just have one thin
wall to pierce.

Can someone recommend a book (I've read 3 that just confused me), or guide
or something to help narrow down my choices?

TIA.

TM

"Travis McGee" <nothere@aol.com> hath wroth:

>I'm looking to set up a wifi lan and need help getting started. What I have
>now is Yahoo DSL with a wireless device sitting on top of my computer and
>NIC card in one box. Nothing else is hooked up at all.

Ok, so you already have an PBI/SBC/Ameritech/Yahoo/whatever DSL modem.
Correct?

>What I want to do is hook up 2 Windows boxes (one PRO, and one Home), and
>one Linux (ubuntu) box on a wifi scheme.

No problem assuming you have line of sight. If you're going through
walls, there may be problems. One wall is usually no problem as long
as there's no aluminium foil or chicken wire in the wall. Two or more
may be a problem.

>I have NO idea how to get up to speed, due to too much input and my head is
>about to explode:)

Great. I can see that marketing has done it's job. Note that my
company motto is "If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me". I
guess I should extend that to "If anyone understands how this stuff is
suppose to work, I would be out of business". Welcome to the
wonderful world of wireless, where everything is magic, hype,
invisible, confusing, or all the aformentioned.

>I haven't bought any equipment yet and need help with brands and model
>numbers (especially due to the Ubuntu box, right?).

Ubuntu is no different than any other box. There's NOTHING that needs
to be installed on the Linux box to connect to the internet. The DHCP
client will get an IP address, gateway address, and DNS server IP's
from your new wireless router, and you're connected.

The only complication is that if you decide to use your Linux box as a
gateway/router/firewall. At your current level of expertise, I would
advise against it.

Also, don't forget that you need wireless client devices for your
various computers.

>All PC's are within 100 ft of each other, although one must go through 3
>walls. I'm thinking of an antenea, outside, so all PC's just have one thin
>wall to pierce.

Maybe. 100ft going through 3 walls isn't going to work with such an
arrangement. I strongly suggest you look into alternative methods of
networking, such as power line networking, phone line networking,
fiber, coax, CATV piggyback, or just run CAT5 cable all over the
place.

>Can someone recommend a book (I've read 3 that just confused me), or guide
>or something to help narrow down my choices?

Book? Whazzat? Do they still print those?

For a good general overview, browse through:
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/86/106/>
This covers the basics fairly well.
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/24861/99/>
There's lots more on the site under tutorials, how-to's, and FAQ's.
Watch out for the dates on various articles as things change very
quickly in wireless.

When you think you've found a winner, see the performance test
comparison at:
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/chart,124/>
Some wireless router really suck.

There's also the alt.internet.wireless FAQ's at:
FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Finally, if you want to dig a bit deeper into how it all goes
together, the Intel wireless hotspot guide is worth skimming. It's no
longer on the Intel web pile, so I posted a copy at:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Intel%20HotSpot%20Guide.pdf>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:pcti73tcslqfl6ucubv1gpp9nujl4bh94f@4ax.com...
<snipped great stuff>

Hey thanks Jeff! I see you're in SC. I LOVE that place. Used to surf there
in the 60's. Just off the boardwalk.

Ok, I get some of this. But, I'm thinking I need a router (this can serve as
an AP, right?) for the security. So.....say I want a good one, good range,
built in firewall and VPN.........? What would you buy? I'm going to play
with it some, maybe transmit to my mom's house for her to use (200 ft.).
Need a plug-in for external antenae, I'm thinking. Plus some wireless cards,
PCI right? Can you recommend a model or two?

I also order another book...........:(

thanks!

TM



> There's also the alt.internet.wireless FAQ's at:
> FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
>
> Finally, if you want to dig a bit deeper into how it all goes
> together, the Intel wireless hotspot guide is worth skimming. It's no
> longer on the Intel web pile, so I posted a copy at:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Intel%20HotSpot%20Guide.pdf>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:54:18 GMT, "Travis McGee" <nothere@aol.com>
wrote:

>
>"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:pcti73tcslqfl6ucubv1gpp9nujl4bh94f@4ax.com.. .
> <snipped great stuff>
>
>Hey thanks Jeff! I see you're in SC. I LOVE that place. Used to surf there
>in the 60's. Just off the boardwalk.

I tried surfing a few times in my life. I was a total klutz and gave
up early.

>Ok, I get some of this. But, I'm thinking I need a router (this can serve as
>an AP, right?) for the security.

You didn't tell us what you already have. Got a DSL modem?

A "wireless router" has several sections inside including:
1. An ethernet router that plays firewall, NAT, and other Layer 3 (IP
layer) functions.
2. A wireless access point that does wireless on Layer 2 (MAC layer).
3. A 4 port ethernet switch for plugging computahs into the wireless
access point.

>So.....say I want a good one, good range,
>built in firewall and VPN.........? What would you buy?
Well, no guarantees on the 3 walls, but I'm partial to the Buffalo
WHR-HP-G54 with DD-WRT v23 SP2 firmware. However, the firmware might
be a bit overly complex for you. Here's what it looks like:
<http://www.informatione.gmxhome.de/DDWRT/Standard/V23final/index.html>

VPN is too vague. There are routers that either terminate, inititate,
or do both with as many as 3 types of VPN's (IPSec, PPTP, SSL, L2TP).
You'll need to be more specific. The good news is that DD-WRT v23 SP3
(not sp2) has a decent PPTP client and server inside.

Incidentally, I don't buy anything. I get my customers and client to
do the buying.

>I'm going to play
>with it some, maybe transmit to my mom's house for her to use (200 ft.).
>Need a plug-in for external antenae, I'm thinking.

Probably. It would be interesting to try it without an external
antenna. Borrow a laptop with wireless and go for a walk.

>Plus some wireless cards,
>PCI right?

Maybe. You did't bother to specify the computer type (desktop,
laptop, server, PDA, game machine, TIVO, etc). I can't offer any
suggestions without such details. Makers and models are even better.

I'm not a big fan of PCI wireless cards. The problem is that the
antenna tends to get buried under the desk, behind the shielded metal
case, in the middle of a tangle of wires. You can get a better
antenna, on the end of some coax, but the coax cable losses are
substantial.

My preference is a wireless ethernet client bridge at the end of an
ethernet cable. Incidentally, some of these bridges will allow you to
add more than once computah behind the bridge. The catch is that
they're not as easy to use as PCI, PCMCIA, or USB. You have to point
a web browser to the setup page, and individually configure the
connection each time you want to switch connection. That's fine for a
fixed installation that doesn't move or change, but if you're gone
travelling or hot spot hopping, it's a PITA. For travel, I prefer a
"travel router".

I don't like USB because of the requirement to add drivers on the
computah, tiny antennas, and a 16ft USB cable limitation.

>Can you recommend a model or two?

I can, but I won't. I have only a minimal appreciation of what you're
trying to do and what you have to work with. I also get into hot
water with my clients when I recommend the competitions hardware.

>I also order another book...........:(

Don't worry, it will be obsolete by the time it arrives.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:ncij73le56h69nap95al8b3msq8pjenist@4ax.com...
>
> You didn't tell us what you already have. Got a DSL modem?
>
Yes, sorry, a DSL modem. Standarad issue from ATT.

> suggestions without such details. Makers and models are even better.
>
> My preference is a wireless ethernet client bridge at the end of an
> ethernet cable.

Well, you done lost me, need to read some more........

All desktop PC's, one with an old Epox board, AMD 1600, new one is an MSI,
3000 Barton, and probably a new box for video streaming.

Just pondering what I want to do is: share the high speed with all boxes and
mom. Don't care about file sharing. All the boxes are in different rooms.

I'm not real happy with the DSL right now. Att yahoo..........may switch to
cable, RoadRunner. Actually, I just want to figure out how this stuff works
and play some with it. I'm not a power user, just a curious type. I'd like
to port video from my net flicks server to the TV, free movies with my
account, you know.

I'll get back to you when I can ask some more intelligent questions, OK?
Thanks for the input.

Travis

Hi. Easy question. I'll chime in;

Modem end:

You'll need a wireless router connected to your modem to distribute
the Internet by cable and wireless. As Jeff said, a good safe bet for
a router is the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54. Everyone knows it, as good or
better range than most and can add that firmware later. Has a
removable antenna if you need to put something stronger on it, but
comes with a better than average antenna anyway.

For now, replacement firmware is going to be too much for you. Just
use what the Buffalo comes with.

On the computer(s) end you need an adapter that has it's own radio,
and converts the wireless signal into one of the three:

1) ethernet (called ethernet client adapter) and connects by ethernet
cable to your pc. This cable can be run up to 400'
2) USB cable into your pc - 15' limit
3) PCI or Pcmcia, which go directly into the computer. - no cable to
the PC needed, but for that reason it's antenna might need one to get
in a good position. Antenna cables suck...signal strength.


So, agreed that PCI cards have that problem, I'd say skip those too.
However, I think that the USB client adapter is perhaps the best
choice in your case. You can get one or two cheap USB wireless
adapters one for the computers nearby and perhaps get one of the USBs
adapters that has a higher gain antenna for the computers that are
farther away. Put it on a USB extension and then place it where the
signal is best.

3 walls. There is another system called powerline networking. If you
can't pick up your wireless signal after going through so many walls,
then you drop another $100 plus on a pair of these guys and plug one
into your router and the wall socket and the other plugs into you
distant computer and the wall socket.

To start with, get one router and one simple USB adapter for your
closest pc. You could buy the matching Buffalo USB adapter, but you
could also go to Fry's or wherever and buy a $20 cheapo and it should
work. Learn how to set up your router, then use that one for testing
your reception (once the router is in place) to help decide what your
other two pcs need.

Cheers,
Steve

"seaweedsteve" <seaweedsteve@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182475535.373494.259360@o11g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
> Hi. Easy question. I'll chime in;
>

> 1) ethernet (called ethernet client adapter) and connects by ethernet
> cable to your pc. This cable can be run up to 400'

Ok, got it up till now. Is this the cable that bypasses the wifi and goes
directly to a pc? So from the router to the PC, no problem with distance?
(up to 400')
This plugs into the LAN port?

> 2) USB cable into your pc - 15' limit
> To start with, get one router and one simple USB adapter for your

Ok, here's my plan:

I'll get the cablemodem attached near the TV and media computer. Run it
directly into the LAN port, right? this should allow me to run the video
with minimum loss. (ported to the TV with the video out on my video card.)
Then, I'll get some USB's for the others and pick up the signal with these.

Now, do the instructions that come with the router tell you how to set the
addresses? Or is there a book or something........I'm clueless.
The TV PC will have XP Home, the farthest PRO, and my play box will have
Ubuntu, current..

Thanks for the reply, Steve.