laptop with wireless antenna in lid?

I think I read here about there being a laptop PC available
with its wireless antenna mounted in the top of the lid so
that when opened and in use the antenna is much more out in
the open than is the PC Card version I have (it hardly works
at all unless I put the laptop on a piece of foam to get its
antenna off the table surface).

I searched various phrases on this newsgroup and got
nothing. Also I've done some general searches and haven't
found anything definite.

As a last resort before posting this I asked a couple of
salesmen at the PC stores. They both gave me a blank look
and it was clear none of them had ever thought about where
the wireless antenna is placed in any laptops they sell.

So, can you wise folks help me here? Thanks.

In news:45eb0356$0$28109$4c368faf@roadrunner.com rob <robIV@piovere.com>
wrote:

> So, can you wise folks help me here? Thanks.

The antenna of my R51 Thinkpad is in the lid, and for no particular
reason, I'd always just assumed that laptops with "built in" WiFi always
had the antenna there.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com

"Bert Hyman" <bert@iphouse.com> wrote in message
> In news:45eb0356$0$28109$4c368faf@roadrunner.com rob <robIV@piovere.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So, can you wise folks help me here? Thanks.
>
> The antenna of my R51 Thinkpad is in the lid, and for no particular
> reason, I'd always just assumed that laptops with "built in" WiFi always
> had the antenna there.


My dell latitude D610 has the antenna in the lid.

Adair

Adair Witner <buhbear007@mail.com> wrote:
> "Bert Hyman" <bert@iphouse.com> wrote in message
>> In news:45eb0356$0$28109$4c368faf@roadrunner.com rob <robIV@piovere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So, can you wise folks help me here? Thanks.
>>
>> The antenna of my R51 Thinkpad is in the lid, and for no particular
>> reason, I'd always just assumed that laptops with "built in" WiFi always
>> had the antenna there.
>
>
> My dell latitude D610 has the antenna in the lid.
>
> Adair
>
My dell latitude C600 has an antenna next to each speaker at the side
of the keyboard near the front.

Jerry
>

In article <45eb0356$0$28109$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
rob <robIV@piovere.com> wrote:
>I think I read here about there being a laptop PC available
>with its wireless antenna mounted in the top of the lid so
>that when opened and in use the antenna is much more out in
>the open than is the PC Card version I have (it hardly works
>at all unless I put the laptop on a piece of foam to get its
>antenna off the table surface).

Almost every laptop with "built-in" wireless has its antenna in the
lid, but I've found that signal strength with these is usually a bit
*worse* compared to the antennas attached to a PC card. One problem
might be that they're so close to the LCD display and its aluminum
shielding. The very thin coaxial cable linking these lid antennas to
the radio card down below (not an issue with PC cards) can also lose a
few dB of signal.

Is the table you have to use the foam spacer on made of metal?

One thing you might try is repointing the antennas on your AP/router
so that they're closer to being horizontal, to better match
polarization with the PC cards. Try to tilt them to be roughly
parallel / broadside with the protruding part of your PC card antenna.

Also, it can be helpful to place the AP/router as high as possible,
and as far away from other objects as you can (especially anything
metal).

--
Jordan.

Jordan Hazen wrote:

> In article <45eb0356$0$28109$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> rob <robIV@piovere.com> wrote:
> > I think I read here about there being a laptop PC available
> > with its wireless antenna mounted in the top of the lid so
> > that when opened and in use the antenna is much more out in
> > the open than is the PC Card version I have (it hardly works
> > at all unless I put the laptop on a piece of foam to get its
> > antenna off the table surface).
>
> Almost every laptop with "built-in" wireless has its antenna in the
> lid, but I've found that signal strength with these is usually a bit
> *worse* compared to the antennas attached to a PC card. One problem
> might be that they're so close to the LCD display and its aluminum
> shielding. The very thin coaxial cable linking these lid antennas to
> the radio card down below (not an issue with PC cards) can also lose a
> few dB of signal.
>
> Is the table you have to use the foam spacer on made of metal?
>
> One thing you might try is repointing the antennas on your AP/router
> so that they're closer to being horizontal, to better match
> polarization with the PC cards. Try to tilt them to be roughly
> parallel / broadside with the protruding part of your PC card antenna.
>
> Also, it can be helpful to place the AP/router as high as possible,
> and as far away from other objects as you can (especially anything
> metal).

I've found the lid antenna on my Compaq 2200 to be surprisingly good
compared to my PCI card based antenna. PCI antennas are usually
hopelessly positioned to pick up anything.

Rob

--

In article <45eb5a35_4@news.chariot.net.au>,
me here <gloaming_agnet@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I've found the lid antenna on my Compaq 2200 to be surprisingly good
>compared to my PCI card based antenna. PCI antennas are usually
>hopelessly positioned to pick up anything.

Was that a desktop PCI card, or a mini-PCI inside a laptop?

Neither provide a good place to mount an antenna, but the desktop
card's probably worse.


>Rob



--
Jordan.

(Jordan Hazen) wrote:
> Almost every laptop with "built-in" wireless has its antenna in the
> lid, but I've found that signal strength with these is usually a bit
> *worse* compared to the antennas attached to a PC card.

My Thinkpad R51 has great reception. Better than any other wireless
adapter with built-in antenna that I have, including a USB adapter
mounted at the same height. I believe that it has two antennas, one
in the side and one at the top.

Other laptops may not be as good. Try to find reviews of laptops that
cover the built-in wireless.

Also, it must surely have something to do with the internal wireless
adapter's power and sensitivity. Some are better than others, I
imagine.


> One thing you might try is repointing the antennas on your AP/router
> so that they're closer to being horizontal, to better match
> polarization with the PC cards. Try to tilt them to be roughly
> parallel / broadside with the protruding part of your PC card antenna.
>
> Also, it can be helpful to place the AP/router as high as possible,
> and as far away from other objects as you can (especially anything
> metal).
> Jordan.

Good advice. Pcmcia cards have horizontal polarization. Of cource
if you switch your AP antenna(s) to horizontal, then you may want to
adjust the other antennas in your network to horizontal as well.

Steve

rob <robIV@piovere.com> hath wroth:

>I think I read here about there being a laptop PC available
>with its wireless antenna mounted in the top of the lid so
>that when opened

Most current laptops have two antennas in the LCD section. One is
usually near the top of the screen and mounted horizontally. The
other is usually on the right side and mounted vertically. However,
there are exceptions and abominations. For example, this loser has
the antennas mounted on the hinges:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/laptops/slides/compaq-2120us.html>
Compaq 2120US.

There are also conglomerations, where both antennas are combined into
a single structure, thereby negating any benifits to diversity
reception. I'm too lazy to find a photo.

>and in use the antenna is much more out in
>the open than is the PC Card version I have (it hardly works
>at all unless I put the laptop on a piece of foam to get its
>antenna off the table surface).

No, the LCD panel antennas are often NOT all that great. The LCD
panel leaves very little space for two full size (1/2 wave long dipole
or about 6cm long) antennas. The proximity to the metal in the LCD
panel back, the long thin RG316 high loss coax cable, and sometimes
the reduction in size using ceramic substrates and PIFA configuation,
can result in inferior antenna gain and a weird antenna pattern.
Search eBay for "Mini PCI antenna" for examples.

>I searched various phrases on this newsgroup and got
>nothing. Also I've done some general searches and haven't
>found anything definite.

I could think of better reasons to buy a specific laptop than the
location of the antenna. Have you considered an external antenna?
See:
<http://repair4laptop.org/wireless_lan_antennae.html>
for some ideas and butchery.

>As a last resort before posting this I asked a couple of
>salesmen at the PC stores. They both gave me a blank look
>and it was clear none of them had ever thought about where
>the wireless antenna is placed in any laptops they sell.

Duh. If they knew the answer, they would be designing the laptops,
not selling them.

>So, can you wise folks help me here? Thanks.

Nope. Not for every possible laptop that was ever manufactured or
sold. Methinks you might be asking too much.

Try these sites:
<http://repair4laptop.org/notebook.html>
<http://www.irisvista.com/tech/index.htm>
They have disassembly instructions which usually show photos of the
guts. You should get a clue as to the location of the antennas. For
example, here's the insides of a Toshiblah Satellite 1415 and M55
showing the two PIFA antennas at the top of the display section:
<http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptops/Toshiba1415/LCD%20removal/small/Toshiba_1415_LCDsm_08.JPG>
<http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptops/ToshibaM55/LCD_screen_removal/small/Toshiba_Satellite_M55_screen_sm09.jpg>

You can also sometimes get photos of the laptop insides on the FCC ID
web pile. The problem is that you'll need to know the FCC ID of the
laptop as the search engine is somewhat broken:
<https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm>
Look on the serial number tag.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 4 Mar 2007 16:32:27 -0800, "seaweedsteve" <seaweedsteve@gmail.com>
wrote in <1173054747.590479.130530@i80g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>:

>(Jordan Hazen) wrote:
>> Almost every laptop with "built-in" wireless has its antenna in the
>> lid, but I've found that signal strength with these is usually a bit
>> *worse* compared to the antennas attached to a PC card.
>
>My Thinkpad R51 has great reception. Better than any other wireless
>adapter with built-in antenna that I have, including a USB adapter
>mounted at the same height. ...

Likewise my ThinkPad T41 -- no standard PC card even comes close.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Jordan Hazen wrote:

> In article <45eb5a35_4@news.chariot.net.au>,
> me here <gloaming_agnet@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've found the lid antenna on my Compaq 2200 to be surprisingly good
> > compared to my PCI card based antenna. PCI antennas are usually
> > hopelessly positioned to pick up anything.
>
> Was that a desktop PCI card, or a mini-PCI inside a laptop?
>
> Neither provide a good place to mount an antenna, but the desktop
> card's probably worse.
>
>
> > Rob

Desktop

--

Thanks to you and the others for taking time to help. I know
a bit more now than I did about the subject. Will check out
the references. Rob