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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007, 03:16 PM
P.Schuman
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Default microwave oven vs WiFi laptop

We have a classic 2-story house,
with the wireless AP upstairs in an extra bedroom / den / computer room.
Downstairs we have the kitchen and eating area and family room.
We have a fairly new GE over the stove, wall mounted microwave oven.
Just noticed that when the oven is running, the laptop wifi goes dead....
Dell C610 with mini-pci internal wifi card (tried two different laptops)
Also have an wireless ethernet bridge for the Tivo + xbox live,
but not sure yet how / if those are also impacted while the oven is running.
Discussion & comments ?



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 07:43 AM
annie.ramos@link2support.com
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Default Re: microwave oven vs WiFi laptop

Avoid wireless electronics that use the 2.4GHz frequency this may
interfere with the wireless signal.

P.Schuman wrote:
> We have a classic 2-story house,
> with the wireless AP upstairs in an extra bedroom / den / computer room.
> Downstairs we have the kitchen and eating area and family room.
> We have a fairly new GE over the stove, wall mounted microwave oven.
> Just noticed that when the oven is running, the laptop wifi goes dead....
> Dell C610 with mini-pci internal wifi card (tried two different laptops)
> Also have an wireless ethernet bridge for the Tivo + xbox live,
> but not sure yet how / if those are also impacted while the oven is running.
> Discussion & comments ?



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007, 05:11 PM
P.Schuman
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Default Re: microwave oven vs WiFi laptop


<annie.ramos@link2support.com> wrote in message
news:1169455384.153047.246530@l53g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Avoid wireless electronics that use the 2.4GHz frequency this may
> interfere with the wireless signal.


What does that comment mean ?
Does the term I.S.M. mean anything to you... if not, go away...




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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2007, 02:57 PM
P.Schuman
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Default Re: microwave oven vs WiFi laptop

"Johann Beretta" <invalid@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:maebr21mlo4gved7uh5c1bg8o9jll3lln3@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:11:24 GMT, "P.Schuman"
> <pschuman_NO_SPAM_ME@interserv.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><annie.ramos@link2support.com> wrote in message
> >news:1169455384.153047.246530@l53g2000cwa.googleg roups.com...
> >> Avoid wireless electronics that use the 2.4GHz frequency this may
> >> interfere with the wireless signal.

> >
> >What does that comment mean ?
> >Does the term I.S.M. mean anything to you... if not, go away...
> >
> >

> microwaves operate at 2.4ghz. That's why you are losing your signal. Either
> relocated the microwave or use 802.11a gear (5 ghz)
>
> btw, you don't have to be a prick.
>

well - since the original comment was pretty useless....
"Avoid wireless electronics that use the 2.4GHz frequency
this may interfere with the wireless signal"

yes - all microwaves operates at 2450Mhz,
and this is a GE Spacemaker that is 1 yr old.
Now trying to "guess" at how the signal is leaking....
which was pretty much the intent of the question -
around the door, thru the window, along the AC cord, etc



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2007, 05:09 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: microwave oven vs WiFi laptop

"P.Schuman" <pschuman_NO_SPAM_ME@interserv.com> hath wroth:

>We have a classic 2-story house,


Classic as in Greek or Roman and made from stone? Those tall columns
are nifty for antenna mounts, although they are difficult to climb.

>with the wireless AP upstairs in an extra bedroom / den / computer room.
>Downstairs we have the kitchen and eating area and family room.
>We have a fairly new GE over the stove, wall mounted microwave oven.


Den? You keep lions?

>Just noticed that when the oven is running, the laptop wifi goes dead....
>Dell C610 with mini-pci internal wifi card (tried two different laptops)
>Also have an wireless ethernet bridge for the Tivo + xbox live,
>but not sure yet how / if those are also impacted while the oven is running.
>Discussion & comments ?


Well, I think you might want to do a little test. Find a 2.4GHz
cordless phone system, and place the handset inside the oven. Close
the door. Do NOT punch the "start" button. Punch the "call" button
on the cordless phone base. Chances are good that the phone will
ring. So much for perfect shielding in the microwave oven.

Microwave ovens are allowed 1 mw/sq-cm leakage at 5 cm distance during
manufacture, and 5 mw/sq-cm at 5 cm after installation. The
overwhelming major of ovens allegedly can pass these specs. I
purchased a digital microwave oven leakage detector and tested a few
ovens. All passed but mine failed badly. It seems that it was
crunched during shipping and the hinge was slightly bent. It was so
minor that I hadn't even noticed. A bit of careful hammering and it
was able to pass.
<http://www.hps.org/hpspublications/articles/microwaveoven.html>

If you want, I can estimate the relative power and field strengths of
the oven and an access point at the same range. However, I'm lazy and
my back the envelope guess looks like it has a problem. Maybe later.
Meanwhile, using a 2.4GHz spectrum analyzer (Wi-Spy):
<http://www.metageek.net>
I've found that the signal levels from my (repaired) leaking microwave
oven to rather substantially larger than the radiation from my access
point (at roughly the same distance). When you're starting with
perhaps 800 watts (+59dBm) of RF power, even the most insignificant
amount of leakage is going to be more than what the typical access
point radiates.

There's not much that can be done for reducing the leakage beyond
manufacturing limits. It might be possible to add additional
shielding or an RF absorptive cabinet. The problem with shielding is
that it often causes the signal to just bounce around in a different
direction. Since yours is wall mounted, you might consider an extra
absorptive front door, and some inside the wall shielding, for those
times when you must cook and surf simultaneously.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007, 01:33 AM
decaturtxcowboy
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Default Re: microwave oven vs WiFi laptop

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Classic as in Greek or Roman and made from stone? Those tall columns
> are nifty for antenna mounts, although they are difficult to climb.


Anyone have diagrams to build a Yagi to look like Etruscan ornament?


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2007, 08:12 AM
John Navas
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Default Re: microwave oven vs WiFi laptop

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:57:47 GMT, "P.Schuman"
<pschuman_NO_SPAM_ME@interserv.com> wrote in
<%fqth.51741$wc5.45424@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net> :

>"Johann Beretta" <invalid@invalid.org> wrote in message
>news:maebr21mlo4gved7uh5c1bg8o9jll3lln3@4ax.com.. .
>> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:11:24 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>> <pschuman_NO_SPAM_ME@interserv.com> wrote:
>>
>> ><annie.ramos@link2support.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1169455384.153047.246530@l53g2000cwa.googleg roups.com...
>> >> Avoid wireless electronics that use the 2.4GHz frequency this may
>> >> interfere with the wireless signal.
>> >
>> >What does that comment mean ?
>> >Does the term I.S.M. mean anything to you... if not, go away...


I Sabotage Myself?
Incredibly Short Memory?
Independent Subcarrier Method?
Indian School of Mines?
Insensitive Munitions?
International Solidarity Movement?
International Surfing Museum?
Interstellar Medium?

>> microwaves operate at 2.4ghz. That's why you are losing your signal. Either
>> relocated the microwave or use 802.11a gear (5 ghz)
>>
>> btw, you don't have to be a prick.


Indeed -- there's no excuse for being rude to those trying to help.

>well - since the original comment was pretty useless....
> "Avoid wireless electronics that use the 2.4GHz frequency
> this may interfere with the wireless signal"


That's actually right on point.

>yes - all microwaves operates at 2450Mhz,
>and this is a GE Spacemaker that is 1 yr old.
>Now trying to "guess" at how the signal is leaking....
>which was pretty much the intent of the question -
> around the door, thru the window, along the AC cord, etc


Usually around the door.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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