Motel wireless drops connections

I am having problems with a motel wireless system that will drop connections
at various times.

The property consists of two buildings that are located side-by-side. The
first is a brick and block motel around 250' long, three stories, with
exterior doors and windows. The second, is a three story frame hotel with
wood siding and plaster interior walls.

The system is built with Zyxel products, consisting of a Zyair B-4000 Hot
Spot Gateway router, two Zyxel B-5000 exterior AP's, one Zyxel B-3000
interior AP. The broadband is provided by Comcast and an RCA cable modem.

The two exterior AP's are mounted on the frame hotel, and are used primarily
to service the brick motel. These are placed at second story level at about
1/3 intervals in relation to the motel length. The interior AP is mounted
in the second floor hallway of the frame hotel. All AP's are powered by POE
and all cabling is Cat 5e.

One Exterior AP and the interior AP are wired to a five port Ethernet switch
which is then wired to the router. The other exterior AP is run directly to
the router. Each AP has the same SSID and are assigned channels 1,6 and 11.
The router is also assigned channel 11, but is a distance from the AP Ch 11,
and the antennas have been removed. The router does not offer the ability to
disconnect it's wireless. The IP's are assigned by the router.

Access to the network is through a login panel that appears on the front
page of the motels webpage. A "superuser" account, created in the router
setup, is used by all of the guests to gain access. Every guest uses the
same user and password. Again, different IP's are issued by the router.

The signal quality at all locations on the property are at least "good",
with most of the property at "very good" or "excellent".

With the system as designed, a guest can sometimes have connectivity for
over an hour, and then at times be dropped after a few minutes. There are
also times when the system cannot be accessed at all. At that point, I will
reboot the router and the same conditions continue.

Does anybody have any ideas of what may be the cause of this problem?
Hardware? Configuration?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Brian

> Does anybody have any ideas of what may be the cause of this problem?
> Hardware? Configuration?

What's the DHCP lease table look like? What sort of timeout is it using?
Might want to make sure you've got enough addresses being allocated and that
they're not timing out too fast. Or that you don't have a ton of folks from
someplace else nearby chewing up all the leases.

Some routers have syslog capabilities, turn up the debug level and see what
the logs have to say.

Also consider using kismet or netstumbler to see what other networks are
nearby, and the signal strength of your own devices. Could be a lot of
interference or conflicting channels.

Bill,

The IP pool has 150 addresses with a 300 minute lease time. All logon's
have unlimited user sessions. The logs have shown no more than 6-7 users at
one time.

Netstumbler shows all of the AP's providing strong signal throughout the
property with no conflicting channels from the outside.

I tested a steady stream radio feed for over eight hours today with no
interruption. But, when I accessed an additional URL and paused to read for
a few minutes the connection was dropped. I had to repair the connection
to connect and then restarted the radio stream. I then accessed a second
URL and rapidly changed pages for ten minutes with no interruption.

With the sessions set at unlimited, I am puzzled as to why the connections
are dropped.

Thanks for the help

Brian

"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HMadnfmKzPwFhXDZnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Does anybody have any ideas of what may be the cause of this problem?
>> Hardware? Configuration?
>
> What's the DHCP lease table look like? What sort of timeout is it using?
> Might want to make sure you've got enough addresses being allocated and
> that
> they're not timing out too fast. Or that you don't have a ton of folks
> from
> someplace else nearby chewing up all the leases.
>
> Some routers have syslog capabilities, turn up the debug level and see
> what
> the logs have to say.
>
> Also consider using kismet or netstumbler to see what other networks are
> nearby, and the signal strength of your own devices. Could be a lot of
> interference or conflicting channels.
>

> I tested a steady stream radio feed for over eight hours today with no
> interruption. But, when I accessed an additional URL and paused to read
> for
> a few minutes the connection was dropped. I had to repair the connection
> to connect and then restarted the radio stream. I then accessed a second
> URL and rapidly changed pages for ten minutes with no interruption.

Hmmm, can you get a wired connection to work reliably? As in, can you test
it such that you're sure it's not your upstream cable link? Or that it's
not the hotspot router having trouble? And is this happening when
connecting to *any* of the access points or just one?

Then, of course, you have to wonder about the sources you're connecting
with. If you've got any sort of intermittent problems locally, or in the
nearby upstream network and you're trying to connect to a distant server
(number of hops-wise, not mileage) and that server's also intermittent,
well, it can be tough to debug.

I'd start with confirming that a wired connection works reliably and then
work your way out from there. It might even be worth rearranging things
such that you connect to an access point WITHOUT the interaction with the
hotspot router and it's configurations. Might as well make sure that
"simple" parts of the links work first and then put the hotspot "control"
back into place. It may well be a combination of things, or even some sort
of outright problem with the how the hotspot controls attempt to work.

-Bill Kearney

I made a few changes to the setup of the system the "seems" to have calmed
the dropped connection problems.

After re-scanning the area with NetStumbler, I found that there were a
number of "Lynksys" networks operating near the fringe of the property, that
were all transmitting on channel 6. Not to mention the network that the
motel uses to handle it's reservation and credit card system.

First, I changed the channels of all the AP's, including the router, to
channel 1. Initially, I thought that using different channels would be
better for roaming, but now I'm convinced that it was a bad idea. Secondly,
I removed the switch the was controlling two of the AP's and wired both of
them direct to the router. I felt that there was nothing better than a home
run.

As of today, all seems well, and the complaints have stopped.

Thanks for the help. It was much appreciated.

Brian


"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l8GdneadU8pfnW7ZnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> I tested a steady stream radio feed for over eight hours today with no
>> interruption. But, when I accessed an additional URL and paused to read
>> for
>> a few minutes the connection was dropped. I had to repair the
>> connection
>> to connect and then restarted the radio stream. I then accessed a
>> second
>> URL and rapidly changed pages for ten minutes with no interruption.
>
> Hmmm, can you get a wired connection to work reliably? As in, can you
> test it such that you're sure it's not your upstream cable link? Or that
> it's not the hotspot router having trouble? And is this happening when
> connecting to *any* of the access points or just one?
>
> Then, of course, you have to wonder about the sources you're connecting
> with. If you've got any sort of intermittent problems locally, or in the
> nearby upstream network and you're trying to connect to a distant server
> (number of hops-wise, not mileage) and that server's also intermittent,
> well, it can be tough to debug.
>
> I'd start with confirming that a wired connection works reliably and then
> work your way out from there. It might even be worth rearranging things
> such that you connect to an access point WITHOUT the interaction with the
> hotspot router and it's configurations. Might as well make sure that
> "simple" parts of the links work first and then put the hotspot "control"
> back into place. It may well be a combination of things, or even some
> sort of outright problem with the how the hotspot controls attempt to
> work.
>
> -Bill Kearney
>

> Not to mention the network that the
> motel uses to handle it's reservation and credit card system.

One sincerely hopes you're NOT running those on a wireless network.

> I removed the switch the was controlling two of the AP's and wired both of
> them direct to the router. I felt that there was nothing better than a
home
> run.

Yes, when in doubt it helps to minimize the number of debugging points. It
may well be worth having a switch that has some intelligence in it. One
that'll at least let you see per-port statistics and arp tables.

No, the motel functions are on a wired network. The router is WEP encrypted
and used for periodic laptop use in the back office.

So far, it's been two days with no dropped connections on the guest network.


"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_66dnf8LmYJ-JGvZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Not to mention the network that the
>> motel uses to handle it's reservation and credit card system.
>
> One sincerely hopes you're NOT running those on a wireless network.
>
>> I removed the switch the was controlling two of the AP's and wired both
>> of
>> them direct to the router. I felt that there was nothing better than a
> home
>> run.
>
> Yes, when in doubt it helps to minimize the number of debugging points.
> It
> may well be worth having a switch that has some intelligence in it. One
> that'll at least let you see per-port statistics and arp tables.
>
>

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 06:28:51 -0400, "Bill Kearney"
<wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in
<_66dnf8LmYJ-JGvZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net>:

>> Not to mention the network that the
>> motel uses to handle it's reservation and credit card system.
>
>One sincerely hopes you're NOT running those on a wireless network.

I see nothing wrong with running such applications on a wireless network
with appropriate security (WPA and perhaps VPN as well). The important
issue is completely separating guest traffic from sensitive
applications, which applies just as much to wired as it does to
wireless.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Is the wired network completely isolated from the wireless network?
Even when laptops in the back office are on wireless?

WEP is too weak to be on any real value.


On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:12 -0400, "bad65" <badd65@earthlink.net> wrote
in <GoKdnZHCRf4tX2vZnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@comcast.com>:

>No, the motel functions are on a wired network. The router is WEP encrypted
>and used for periodic laptop use in the back office.
>
>So far, it's been two days with no dropped connections on the guest network.
>
>
>"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:_66dnf8LmYJ-JGvZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> Not to mention the network that the
>>> motel uses to handle it's reservation and credit card system.
>>
>> One sincerely hopes you're NOT running those on a wireless network.
>>
>>> I removed the switch the was controlling two of the AP's and wired both
>>> of
>>> them direct to the router. I felt that there was nothing better than a
>> home
>>> run.
>>
>> Yes, when in doubt it helps to minimize the number of debugging points.
>> It
>> may well be worth having a switch that has some intelligence in it. One
>> that'll at least let you see per-port statistics and arp tables.
>>
>>
>

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

The guest wireless network is completely separate from the motel operations
network. It's in a different building on a different cable account.

As far as the motel operations network is concerned, the server and its
wired workstations acquire web access through a wireless router in the back
office. An additional back office PC and printer are also using this
router. The router, a Lynksys WRT54G requires a WEP key for access through
wireless.

If there is a weak link or any vulnerability, please advise.

Brian


"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:9fudf2prpgam1i1t5a11keilc8nhn7qrmg@4ax.com...
> Is the wired network completely isolated from the wireless network?
> Even when laptops in the back office are on wireless?
>
> WEP is too weak to be on any real value.
>
>
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:12 -0400, "bad65" <badd65@earthlink.net> wrote
> in <GoKdnZHCRf4tX2vZnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@comcast.com>:
>
>>No, the motel functions are on a wired network. The router is WEP
>>encrypted
>>and used for periodic laptop use in the back office.
>>
>>So far, it's been two days with no dropped connections on the guest
>>network.
>>
>>
>>"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:_66dnf8LmYJ-JGvZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> Not to mention the network that the
>>>> motel uses to handle it's reservation and credit card system.
>>>
>>> One sincerely hopes you're NOT running those on a wireless network.
>>>
>>>> I removed the switch the was controlling two of the AP's and wired both
>>>> of
>>>> them direct to the router. I felt that there was nothing better than a
>>> home
>>>> run.
>>>
>>> Yes, when in doubt it helps to minimize the number of debugging points.
>>> It
>>> may well be worth having a switch that has some intelligence in it. One
>>> that'll at least let you see per-port statistics and arp tables.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

As I wrote before, WEP is too weak to be on any real value. Definitely
use WPA instead. Upgrade hardware if necessary. Seriously.


On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:06:49 -0400, "bad65" <badd65@earthlink.net> wrote
in <_s6dnQu2Ee8I9mrZnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@comcast.com>:

>The guest wireless network is completely separate from the motel operations
>network. It's in a different building on a different cable account.
>
>As far as the motel operations network is concerned, the server and its
>wired workstations acquire web access through a wireless router in the back
>office. An additional back office PC and printer are also using this
>router. The router, a Lynksys WRT54G requires a WEP key for access through
>wireless.
>
>If there is a weak link or any vulnerability, please advise.
>
>Brian
>
>
>"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>news:9fudf2prpgam1i1t5a11keilc8nhn7qrmg@4ax.com.. .
>> Is the wired network completely isolated from the wireless network?
>> Even when laptops in the back office are on wireless?
>>
>> WEP is too weak to be on any real value.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:12 -0400, "bad65" <badd65@earthlink.net> wrote
>> in <GoKdnZHCRf4tX2vZnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@comcast.com>:
>>
>>>No, the motel functions are on a wired network. The router is WEP
>>>encrypted
>>>and used for periodic laptop use in the back office.
>>>
>>>So far, it's been two days with no dropped connections on the guest
>>>network.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:_66dnf8LmYJ-JGvZnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>>> Not to mention the network that the
>>>>> motel uses to handle it's reservation and credit card system.
>>>>
>>>> One sincerely hopes you're NOT running those on a wireless network.
>>>>
>>>>> I removed the switch the was controlling two of the AP's and wired both
>>>>> of
>>>>> them direct to the router. I felt that there was nothing better than a
>>>> home
>>>>> run.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, when in doubt it helps to minimize the number of debugging points.
>>>> It
>>>> may well be worth having a switch that has some intelligence in it. One
>>>> that'll at least let you see per-port statistics and arp tables.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
>> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
>> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
>> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
>

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

> >One sincerely hopes you're NOT running those on a wireless network.
>
> I see nothing wrong with running such applications on a wireless network
> with appropriate security (WPA and perhaps VPN as well). The important
> issue is completely separating guest traffic from sensitive
> applications, which applies just as much to wired as it does to
> wireless.

Cripes, I hope your clients get second opinions because your advice is
sorely lacking. While using WPA may secure the traffic it does nothing to
assure it's availability. Going hard-wired not only avoids the sniffed
packets risk it also avoids interruptions based on interference (deliberate
AND accidental).

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:15:18 -0400, "Bill Kearney"
<wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in
<75ydncNHx9pbG2XZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@speakeasy.net>:

>> >One sincerely hopes you're NOT running those on a wireless network.
>>
>> I see nothing wrong with running such applications on a wireless network
>> with appropriate security (WPA and perhaps VPN as well). The important
>> issue is completely separating guest traffic from sensitive
>> applications, which applies just as much to wired as it does to
>> wireless.
>
>Cripes, I hope your clients get second opinions because your advice is
>sorely lacking.

1. We'll just have to agree to disagree yet again.

2. You'd be more persuasive if you resisted the urge to insult.

>While using WPA may secure

Does secure. WPA2 Enterprise in the case of clients that warrant it.

>the traffic it does nothing to
>assure it's availability.

Which isn't a wireless security issue.

>Going hard-wired not only avoids the sniffed
>packets risk it also avoids interruptions based on interference (deliberate
>AND accidental).

It's subject to wired interruptions, Internet service disruptions, etc.
No one method is perfect. Regardless, wired is simply not an option in
some cases.

Availability is simply a different issue from security. When I design
networks for clients it's of course one of many factors taken into
consideration. Different clients need/can afford different levels of
availability. In one notable case the failover backup is 3G (with VPN
security). As it happens, it took less than a week to prove its value.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>