Need to understand wireless gaming adapters

I just became aware of specialty WiFi devices called "gaming adapters"
or "wireless bridge adapters" which convert an Ethernet connection to
a wireless one. They tend to be pricier than wireless routers and are
usually dedicated to converting a single Ethernet device. How is using
one of these devices different from adding another 4-port wireless
router to the wireless network? What am I missing here? Thanks.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 22:05:43 -0500, M.L. <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>I just became aware of specialty WiFi devices called "gaming adapters"
>or "wireless bridge adapters" which convert an Ethernet connection to
>a wireless one. They tend to be pricier than wireless routers and are
>usually dedicated to converting a single Ethernet device. How is using
>one of these devices different from adding another 4-port wireless
>router to the wireless network? What am I missing here? Thanks.

Since you didn't bother to specify what you're trying to accomplish, I
can't determine if a wireless game adapter is appropriate.

There are two basic types of wireless bridges. One is a transparent
bridge, where one can see multiple MAC addresses through the bridge.
For every device connected to the wireless bridge radio, a seperate IP
address will be assigned by the DHCP server.

The other type is a not-so-transparent client bridge mode, where only
the MAC address of the bridge radio is passed. See discussion at:
<http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=68>
The difference is visible when running arp -a command. The
transparent bridge will have a different MAC address for each IP
address. The client bridge will show multiple IP addresses for the
MAC address of the bridge.

Where the problems appear is when you try to connect an ethernet
switch to the wireless bridge radio, and find that only one connected
computah can obtain an IP address through the bridge via DHCP. Most
wireless bridges will allow multiple computers, but a few do not. As
I recall, the DLink DWL-2100 is one that does not.

The reason these cost more is because the product volume is much less
than wireless routers.

Back to doing my taxes. Grumble...

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"M.L." <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
news:b3dip61akpk9aaq722510cpoom052dlnic@4ax.com...
>
> I just became aware of specialty WiFi devices called "gaming adapters"
> or "wireless bridge adapters" which convert an Ethernet connection to
> a wireless one. They tend to be pricier than wireless routers and are
> usually dedicated to converting a single Ethernet device. How is using
> one of these devices different from adding another 4-port wireless
> router to the wireless network? What am I missing here? Thanks.

A "wireless bridge adapter" is a bridge whereas a 4-port wireless router is
a router. A bridge passes all traffic whereas a router only passes some of
it. If you want a more technical summary then see Jeff's post or google for
it.

I think you could use the 4-port wireless router as a bridge if you plugged
your network into one of the 4 "internal" ports and not the single
"external" port. You might want to disable DHCP on it too assuming you
already have a router providing DHCP.

Hope this helps.
--
Brian Cryer
http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian

>> I just became aware of specialty WiFi devices called "gaming adapters"
>> or "wireless bridge adapters" which convert an Ethernet connection to
>> a wireless one. They tend to be pricier than wireless routers and are
>> usually dedicated to converting a single Ethernet device. How is using
>> one of these devices different from adding another 4-port wireless
>> router to the wireless network? What am I missing here? Thanks.
>
>A "wireless bridge adapter" is a bridge whereas a 4-port wireless router is
>a router. A bridge passes all traffic whereas a router only passes some of
>it. If you want a more technical summary then see Jeff's post or google for
>it.
>
>I think you could use the 4-port wireless router as a bridge if you plugged
>your network into one of the 4 "internal" ports and not the single
>"external" port. You might want to disable DHCP on it too assuming you
>already have a router providing DHCP.
>
>Hope this helps.

Thanks for your replies Jeff and Brian. Yes, it did help my
understanding. My goal is to wirelessly connect 5 Ethernet IP phones
to a remote router. So it appears I can save money by tweaking another
wireless router to suit my needs.

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:55:57 +0100, "Brian Cryer"
<not.here@localhost.invalid> wrote:

>A "wireless bridge adapter" is a bridge whereas a 4-port wireless router is
>a router. A bridge passes all traffic whereas a router only passes some of
>it. If you want a more technical summary then see Jeff's post or google for
>it.

Well, not quite. You can also filter traffic with bridging such as in
a VLAN. What a multiport bridge does is build a table of MAC
addresses that are connected to each port. No IP addresses are
involved. When a packet arrives at one port, the bridge checks the
packet header, to see where to send the packet. Since a given MAC
address can only be located at one port, it only sends the packet to
that port, with no traffic going to the other ports. If the
destination MAC address is not found in the table, the bridge does
nothing. If there is no destination MAC address, such as in a
broadcast packet, it goes to ALL the other ports.

A two port bridge works the same way, except that there are only 2
ports involved. If the destination MAC address is across the bridge,
the packet gets sent. If not, it doesn't get sent across the bridge.
If it's a broadcast packet, it gets sent. This dramatically cuts down
on the wasted traffic that would need to be transmitted via wireless.

A wireless bridge is exactly the same as a wired bridge (or the
multiport version which is an ethernet switch). The different types
of wireless bridges are detailed in the FAQ, but it's down right now.
I'll post the link when it returns. There a really old version at:
<http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Scroll down to "Wi-Fi Hardware -> Wireless Bridge".

>I think you could use the 4-port wireless router as a bridge if you plugged
>your network into one of the 4 "internal" ports and not the single
>"external" port. You might want to disable DHCP on it too assuming you
>already have a router providing DHCP.

Nope. Some wireless routers can be convinced to act as access points,
wireless client bridge, wireless transparent bridge, point to point
bridge, point to multipoint bridge, ad-hoc client, etc. However, few
commodity wireless routers have the ability to do much more than act
as an access point or wireess router.

If you must use a wireless router as a bridge to another wireless
router, it can be done use WDS (wireless distribution system
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Distribution_System>



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:uaojp6dhh7bt8ev0oedakosi0nfknbgj4t@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:55:57 +0100, "Brian Cryer"
> <not.here@localhost.invalid> wrote:
>
>>A "wireless bridge adapter" is a bridge whereas a 4-port wireless router
>>is
>>a router. A bridge passes all traffic whereas a router only passes some of
>>it. If you want a more technical summary then see Jeff's post or google
>>for
>>it.
>
> Well, not quite. You can also filter traffic with bridging such as in
> a VLAN. What a multiport bridge does is build a table of MAC
> addresses that are connected to each port. No IP addresses are
> involved. When a packet arrives at one port, the bridge checks the
> packet header, to see where to send the packet. Since a given MAC
> address can only be located at one port, it only sends the packet to
> that port, with no traffic going to the other ports. If the
> destination MAC address is not found in the table, the bridge does
> nothing. If there is no destination MAC address, such as in a
> broadcast packet, it goes to ALL the other ports.
>
> A two port bridge works the same way, except that there are only 2
> ports involved. If the destination MAC address is across the bridge,
> the packet gets sent. If not, it doesn't get sent across the bridge.
> If it's a broadcast packet, it gets sent. This dramatically cuts down
> on the wasted traffic that would need to be transmitted via wireless.
>
> A wireless bridge is exactly the same as a wired bridge (or the
> multiport version which is an ethernet switch). The different types
> of wireless bridges are detailed in the FAQ, but it's down right now.
> I'll post the link when it returns. There a really old version at:
> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Scroll down to "Wi-Fi Hardware -> Wireless Bridge".

True. I was aiming for simple explanation, without the detail.

>>I think you could use the 4-port wireless router as a bridge if you
>>plugged
>>your network into one of the 4 "internal" ports and not the single
>>"external" port. You might want to disable DHCP on it too assuming you
>>already have a router providing DHCP.
>
> Nope. Some wireless routers can be convinced to act as access points,
> wireless client bridge, wireless transparent bridge, point to point
> bridge, point to multipoint bridge, ad-hoc client, etc. However, few
> commodity wireless routers have the ability to do much more than act
> as an access point or wireess router.

I've done it using a standard wireless router (essentially using it as a
hub) so I know what I'm suggesting works.

> If you must use a wireless router as a bridge to another wireless
> router, it can be done use WDS (wireless distribution system
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Distribution_System>

What I was describing was using a wireless router as a WAP, not using the
wireless router as a bridge between two wireless networks. Perhaps I
misunderstood what the OP was after?
--
Brian Cryer
http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian

On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:21:12 -0500, M.L. <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>Thanks for your replies Jeff and Brian. Yes, it did help my
>understanding. My goal is to wirelessly connect 5 Ethernet IP phones
>to a remote router. So it appears I can save money by tweaking another
>wireless router to suit my needs.

It can be done, but you'll probably need a wireless bridge that
supports multiple MAC addresses. There's a list on the FAQ, but it's
old. To add to the fun, there are some that work, but limit the
number of MAC addresses to some pre-defined amount. Those are called
a "workgroup bridge" mostly by 3com and Cisco. Trying to get the
vendors to supply useful data like the maximum number of clients and
how many MAC addresses will it pass, is an exercise in futility. Even
worse, some firmware mutations break this "feature" since it's not
clearly specified in the specs, and therefore not tested properly.

If you're using a SIP phone (highly likely) and a single wireless
router, you'll also need to configure a STUN server to handle the NAT.

You might also consider individual wireless clients for each phone.
See WBP-54G
<http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10046/index.html>

You can also do something bizarre, such as using a WDS bridge *AND*
individual wireless radios on each SIP phone. I do that with several
SPA941 SIP phones at a customers. The catch is that you can't really
use a highly directional antenna on the WDS bridge since the SIP
phones also have to connect via the same antenna. WDS also only
supports WEP encryption (except with DD-WRT firmware), so the security
is rather marginal. Plenty of topology options. Use your
imagination.

Anyway, back to the wireless bridge problem. Just plug two or more
computahss, configured for DHCP into the wireless bridge, and see if
the DHCP server in your unspecified wireless router will deliver a
valid IP address to each computah. If only one gets a usable IP, and
the others are stuck with 169.254.xxx.xxx, you lose. If all the
machines have usable IP addresses, you win.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

>>Thanks for your replies Jeff and Brian. Yes, it did help my
>>understanding. My goal is to wirelessly connect 5 Ethernet IP phones
>>to a remote router. So it appears I can save money by tweaking another
>>wireless router to suit my needs.

>You might also consider individual wireless clients for each phone.
>See WBP-54G
><http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10046/index.html>

I looked at the WBP-54G before posting here. Since, as you say, such
gaming adapters are more efficient with wireless traffic, and their
setups appear to be uncomplicated, I think they'll suit my needs
better.

Linksys WBP-54G (1-port) -> $38.50 @ Amazon

TRENDnet TEW-640MB Wireless N (4-Port) Media Bridge $49.99 @
TigerDirect

Perhaps two TEW-640MB for the 5 Ethernet SIP phones?

>Anyway, back to the wireless bridge problem. Just plug two or more
>computahss, configured for DHCP into the wireless bridge, and see if
>the DHCP server in your unspecified wireless router will deliver a
>valid IP address to each computah. If only one gets a usable IP, and
>the others are stuck with 169.254.xxx.xxx, you lose. If all the
>machines have usable IP addresses, you win.

I think I'll go with the gaming adapters to be safe. Thanks again
Brian and Jeff, I found the extra info useful.