I'm totally a newbie regarding laptops. I'm thinking of buying one to take
on an extended tour to the Mid East. I'm wavering between buying a new one
for maybe $475 or so, and one on Ebay for half that.
My questions involve the huge volume of laptops for sale on Ebay. If it
doesn't say its wireless equipped, does that mean it probably isn't?
With wireless equpped laptops, is it as simple as turning the laptop on and
then connecting to the internet, if I'm in an area with wireless hot spot
coverage?
What about the cards I read about that some seem to require? How do I know
what kinds and how many I need?
If it has a built in wireless device, you turn it on, in a hot spot and it
finds the signal. In my opinion, if you were experienced with laptops, it
may make sense to buy a used one, but in your case, you'd probably wind up
with someone else's headache
"rb" <rbig@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:cJTAh.5989$B8.4871@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> I'm totally a newbie regarding laptops. I'm thinking of buying one to
> take on an extended tour to the Mid East. I'm wavering between buying a
> new one for maybe $475 or so, and one on Ebay for half that.
>
> My questions involve the huge volume of laptops for sale on Ebay. If it
> doesn't say its wireless equipped, does that mean it probably isn't?
>
> With wireless equpped laptops, is it as simple as turning the laptop on
> and then connecting to the internet, if I'm in an area with wireless hot
> spot coverage?
>
> What about the cards I read about that some seem to require? How do I
> know what kinds and how many I need?
>
rb wrote:
> I'm totally a newbie regarding laptops. I'm thinking of buying one to take
> on an extended tour to the Mid East. I'm wavering between buying a new one
> for maybe $475 or so, and one on Ebay for half that.
A new laptop for only $475 will most likely have an outdated slow as
molasses Semperon CPU and only 256 Meg of RAM. Internet Exploder will take
at least 30 seconds to load. It will be a very frustrating computer to use.
IMHO, you should have at least an Athelon CPU with 512 Meg of RAM to save
your sanity.
Another thing to consider is the used battery. You have no idea how many
charge and discharge cycles its been through. It may only run for five
minutes. A new battery will cost you $100 to $200 (rough estimate off the
top of my head).
> A new laptop for only $475 will most likely have an outdated slow as
> molasses Semperon CPU and only 256 Meg of RAM. Internet Exploder will take
> at least 30 seconds to load. It will be a very frustrating computer to
> use.
Yes but only if you load Winblows on that thing. Any linux distro will
run sweetly on such an "outdated" machine, without all the attendant
viruses, malware, worms etc...
"rb" <rbig@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:cJTAh.5989$B8.4871@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> I'm totally a newbie regarding laptops. I'm thinking of buying one to
> take on an extended tour to the Mid East. I'm wavering between buying a
> new one for maybe $475 or so, and one on Ebay for half that.
>
E-bay considerations
- does it work properly
- was it stolen
- reputation of seller
- technological age of unit
> My questions involve the huge volume of laptops for sale on Ebay. If it
> doesn't say its wireless equipped, does that mean it probably isn't?
>
Most laptops in the last few years have wireless built in, but it may be the
older B or G technology
> With wireless equpped laptops, is it as simple as turning the laptop on
> and then connecting to the internet, if I'm in an area with wireless hot
> spot coverage?
If here is adequate signal stenegth, and if the network is not secured, yes
However, I would be reluctant to allow my laptop to connect to a network
that is not secured, unless I had paranoid level security in operation on it
>
> What about the cards I read about that some seem to require? How do I
> know what kinds and how many I need?
I have a wireless pcmcia network card here, I needed it for my 1999 Compaq
To repeat, if the laptop you buy does not have built in woreless, it is
probably too old to serve you well.
>I'm thinking of buying one to take
>on an extended tour to the Mid East.
Make sure it can handle Hebrew or Farsi depending on which side of the
wall you plan to visit.
>I'm wavering between buying a new one
>for maybe $475 or so, and one on Ebay for half that.
You won't find anything new for $475 that's worth buying. It's
difficult to a generalized recommendation, but I don't think you can
buy anything new I would consider reasonable for less than about $800
(including wireless).
>My questions involve the huge volume of laptops for sale on Ebay. If it
>doesn't say its wireless equipped, does that mean it probably isn't?
Wireless can easily be added to any laptop with a USB or PCMCIA
wireless card. Some laptops have a MiniPCI slot inside that can
handle *EITHER* a modem card, ethernet card, or wireless card. For
wireless, make sure the manufacturer offered wireless as an option or
it might not work.
I've bought laptops on eBay without difficulties. However, I simply
assume that the included battery will be almost dead and need
replacement. That's about $150 depending on source and vintage. For
hard disks that are over 5 years old, assume that is also dead. In
most cases, RAM may also need to be added to run the latest bloatware.
>With wireless equpped laptops, is it as simple as turning the laptop on and
>then connecting to the internet, if I'm in an area with wireless hot spot
>coverage?
Nothing is that simple. There's a "view available connections" ordeal
followed by encryption passwords. Most hot spots have a legal
disclaimer that you must approve. Some charge money and want an
account name and password. It's difficult to tell what you will run
into in the "mid east".
Also, be advised that difference countries have different wireless
frequency and power regulations which must be accomidated in your
wireless configurations.
Most laptops have universal power supplies that will run on anything
from 90-250 VAC at either 50/60Hz. However, you will need a power
plug adapter.
>What about the cards I read about that some seem to require? How do I know
>what kinds and how many I need?
Nope, I don't know without first knowing the make and model of laptop.
In general, if it doesn't have wireless built in, a PCMCIA wireless
card will work on all but the most recent laptops which have a
different slot. There are also 16 bit PCMCIA and 32 bit Card Bus
slots, which also depend on the laptop.
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 10:42:34 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<hm99t2pe0mudorkg2g8b27j47g2nb7cbdn@4ax.com>:
>I've bought laptops on eBay without difficulties. However, I simply
>assume that the included battery will be almost dead and need
>replacement.
Likewise.
>That's about $150 depending on source and vintage.
I get even OEM batteries for quite a bit less than that, and very good
non-OEM batteries for much less ($40-50 for ThinkPad T-series).
>For
>hard disks that are over 5 years old, assume that is also dead.
I disagree -- the hard disk is likely to outlast the rest of the laptop
if not abused. The usual reason for replacement is to increase
capacity.
>In
>most cases, RAM may also need to be added to run the latest bloatware.
Often, but RAM is cheap.
--
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mr.b wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:04:24 +0000, DTC wrote:
>
>
>> A new laptop for only $475 will most likely have an outdated slow as
>> molasses Semperon CPU and only 256 Meg of RAM. Internet Exploder will take
>> at least 30 seconds to load. It will be a very frustrating computer to
>> use.
>
> Yes but only if you load Winblows on that thing. Any linux distro will
> run sweetly on such an "outdated" machine, without all the attendant
> viruses, malware, worms etc...
Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:27:47 GMT, DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob>
wrote in <7n3Bh.1827$x74.1772@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink. net>:
>mr.b wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:04:24 +0000, DTC wrote:
>>
>>> A new laptop for only $475 will most likely have an outdated slow as
>>> molasses Semperon CPU and only 256 Meg of RAM. Internet Exploder will take
>>> at least 30 seconds to load. It will be a very frustrating computer to
>>> use.
>>
>> Yes but only if you load Winblows on that thing. Any linux distro will
>> run sweetly on such an "outdated" machine, without all the attendant
>> viruses, malware, worms etc...
>
>Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
>distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
Preconfigured "live CD" can be run directly, or installed pretty much
automatically.
--
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On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:53:17 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>Preconfigured "live CD" can be run directly, or installed pretty much
>automatically.
Incidentally, the various Ubuntu CD's are a combination of both the
bootable Live CD and the installation CD. It asks which mode you want
it to run on the boot screen. I suspect other distributions are also
like this, but Ubuntu is the only one that I'm reasonably familiar
with using.
> Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
> distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
This is curious. What did people know about what they were doing when
they first installed MS? Most new distros are as easy or easier than
installing the latest version of VirusCentral. I just don't get it.
John Navas wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:27:47 GMT, DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob>
> wrote in <7n3Bh.1827$x74.1772@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink. net>:
>
>> mr.b wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:04:24 +0000, DTC wrote:
>>>
>>>> A new laptop for only $475 will most likely have an outdated slow as
>>>> molasses Semperon CPU and only 256 Meg of RAM. Internet Exploder will take
>>>> at least 30 seconds to load. It will be a very frustrating computer to
>>>> use.
>>> Yes but only if you load Winblows on that thing. Any linux distro will
>>> run sweetly on such an "outdated" machine, without all the attendant
>>> viruses, malware, worms etc...
>> Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
>> distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
>
> Preconfigured "live CD" can be run directly, or installed pretty much
> automatically.
Too bad the users aren't preconfigured. Do you really think the typical
user can deal with Linux?
mr.b wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:27:47 +0000, DTC wrote:
>
>> Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
>> distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
>
> This is curious. What did people know about what they were doing when
> they first installed MS? Most new distros are as easy or easier than
> installing the latest version of VirusCentral. I just don't get it.
Different kind of user back then. Today computers are commodities you can
by at Walmart and bought by Walmart users.
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:00:36 GMT, DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob>
> wrote:
>
>> Too bad the users aren't preconfigured. Do you really think the typical
>> user can deal with Linux?
>
> If you've never seen Windoze before, do you think the typical user can
> deal with Windoze? Both Linux and Windoze have a learning curve.
I would venture to say there are more converts from Windows to Linux than
the other way around.
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> If you've never seen Windoze before, do you think the typical user can
>> deal with Windoze? Both Linux and Windoze have a learning curve.
>I would venture to say there are more converts from Windows to Linux than
>the other way around.
Quantity is a rather poor replacement for quality. However, that has
nothing to do with my comment on your assertion. I've helped a few
commerical customers make the transition from Windoze to various Linux
mutations (mostly SUSE). The problem is always the learning curve.
Most consider their knowledge of Windoze to be an investment of sorts
and refuse to start from scratch learning Linux. After giving it a
half hearted try, all but a few of my customers have given up on Linux
as being too hard to learn. IMHO, Apple OS/X did it right. It
insulated the user from any need to ever see the shell prompt or run
anything from the command line. Perhaps future Linux mutations will
learn this lesson (but probably not).
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:10:36 -0600, "rb" <rbig@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I'm totally a newbie regarding laptops. I'm thinking of buying one to take
>on an extended tour to the Mid East. I'm wavering between buying a new one
>for maybe $475 or so, and one on Ebay for half that.
>
>My questions involve the huge volume of laptops for sale on Ebay. If it
>doesn't say its wireless equipped, does that mean it probably isn't?
>
>With wireless equpped laptops, is it as simple as turning the laptop on and
>then connecting to the internet, if I'm in an area with wireless hot spot
>coverage?
>
>What about the cards I read about that some seem to require? How do I know
>what kinds and how many I need?
>
I have recently bought, from eBay, a 'Grade A' IBM Thinkpad T40 for
about $500. Wireless bult in, 512MB RAM, 40GB HDD. Original and legit
WINXP Pro. From external apperance machine in as new condition. These
machines are most often retired 'business machines' and are 'good
buys' in my opinion.
DTC wrote:
> mr.b wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:04:24 +0000, DTC wrote:
>>
>>
>>> A new laptop for only $475 will most likely have an outdated slow as
>>> molasses Semperon CPU and only 256 Meg of RAM. Internet Exploder will
>>> take
>>> at least 30 seconds to load. It will be a very frustrating computer to
>>> use.
>>
>> Yes but only if you load Winblows on that thing. Any linux distro will
>> run sweetly on such an "outdated" machine, without all the attendant
>> viruses, malware, worms etc...
>
> Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
> distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
Pretty much anyone , my 78 year old mother manages nix easily so one
would hope a normal person would as well , are you normal ?
DTC wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:00:36 GMT, DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Too bad the users aren't preconfigured. Do you really think the
>>> typical user can deal with Linux?
>>
>> If you've never seen Windoze before, do you think the typical user can
>> deal with Windoze? Both Linux and Windoze have a learning curve.
>
> I would venture to say there are more converts from Windows to Linux
> than the other way around.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:00:36 GMT, DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob>
wrote in <o79Bh.1957$x74.803@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.n et>:
>John Navas wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:27:47 GMT, DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob>
>> wrote in <7n3Bh.1827$x74.1772@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink. net>:
>>
>>> mr.b wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:04:24 +0000, DTC wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A new laptop for only $475 will most likely have an outdated slow as
>>>>> molasses Semperon CPU and only 256 Meg of RAM. Internet Exploder will take
>>>>> at least 30 seconds to load. It will be a very frustrating computer to
>>>>> use.
>>>> Yes but only if you load Winblows on that thing. Any linux distro will
>>>> run sweetly on such an "outdated" machine, without all the attendant
>>>> viruses, malware, worms etc...
>>> Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
>>> distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
>>
>> Preconfigured "live CD" can be run directly, or installed pretty much
>> automatically.
>
>Too bad the users aren't preconfigured. Do you really think the typical
>user can deal with Linux?
Given a current newbie-oriented disto, yes.
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On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:58:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<2loat2du38c7afq4p9dvv78l5lm8ejbgrr@4ax.com>:
>DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob> hath wroth:
>
>>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> If you've never seen Windoze before, do you think the typical user can
>>> deal with Windoze? Both Linux and Windoze have a learning curve.
>
>>I would venture to say there are more converts from Windows to Linux than
>>the other way around.
>
>Quantity is a rather poor replacement for quality. However, that has
>nothing to do with my comment on your assertion. I've helped a few
>commerical customers make the transition from Windoze to various Linux
>mutations (mostly SUSE). The problem is always the learning curve.
>Most consider their knowledge of Windoze to be an investment of sorts
>and refuse to start from scratch learning Linux. After giving it a
>half hearted try, all but a few of my customers have given up on Linux
>as being too hard to learn. IMHO, Apple OS/X did it right. It
>insulated the user from any need to ever see the shell prompt or run
>anything from the command line. Perhaps future Linux mutations will
>learn this lesson (but probably not).
Knoppix live CD boots right into a windowed environment familiar to
Windows users -- no command line or configuration needed. People I know
seem to think the learning curve is not a big deal.
--
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On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 21:31:38 -0500, "mr.b" <mist@b.com> wrote in
<pan.2007.02.16.02.31.37.887170@b.com>:
>On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:27:47 +0000, DTC wrote:
>
>> Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
>> distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
>
>This is curious. What did people know about what they were doing when
>they first installed MS? Most new distros are as easy or easier than
>installing the latest version of VirusCentral. I just don't get it.
Windows comes preinstalled. Most users wouldn't have any idea how to do
that themselves.
--
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On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:04:23 +0000, Edward W. Thompson
<thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
<p5pat21bp98lacks8fj9io9albvlb37fot@4ax.com>:
>On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:10:36 -0600, "rb" <rbig@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>I'm totally a newbie regarding laptops. I'm thinking of buying one to take
>>on an extended tour to the Mid East. I'm wavering between buying a new one
>>for maybe $475 or so, and one on Ebay for half that.
>>
>>My questions involve the huge volume of laptops for sale on Ebay. If it
>>doesn't say its wireless equipped, does that mean it probably isn't?
>>
>>With wireless equpped laptops, is it as simple as turning the laptop on and
>>then connecting to the internet, if I'm in an area with wireless hot spot
>>coverage?
>>
>>What about the cards I read about that some seem to require? How do I know
>>what kinds and how many I need?
>>
>I have recently bought, from eBay, a 'Grade A' IBM Thinkpad T40 for
>about $500. Wireless bult in, 512MB RAM, 40GB HDD. Original and legit
>WINXP Pro. From external apperance machine in as new condition. These
>machines are most often retired 'business machines' and are 'good
>buys' in my opinion.
Agreed.
--
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John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 21:31:38 -0500, "mr.b" <mist@b.com> wrote in
><pan.2007.02.16.02.31.37.887170@b.com>:
>
>>On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:27:47 +0000, DTC wrote:
>>
>>> Very true...but how many people are up to installing Fedore 6, or any
>>> distribution for that matter...or anything OTHER THAN Windoze.
>>
>>This is curious. What did people know about what they were doing when
>>they first installed MS? Most new distros are as easy or easier than
>>installing the latest version of VirusCentral. I just don't get it.
>Windows comes preinstalled. Most users wouldn't have any idea how to do
>that themselves.
I'm not so sure about that. Many of my customers seem to think that a
total reinstallation is the only cure for whatever problems they're
having. They seem to be quite adept at performing XP reinstallations.
I suspect they would be just as adapt at a cold turkey installation if
necessary. Usually, I get involved in cleaning up the mess after
they're done, but the majority that try a reinstall seem to do it well
enough.
Also, if you want Linux pre-installed: http://www.dell.com/linux/
You can also get it with FreeDOS (not installed) on some laptop
models, which is what I do when I don't want to pay for Windoze.
>>Windows comes preinstalled. Most users wouldn't have any idea how to do
>>that themselves.
>
>I'm not so sure about that. Many of my customers seem to think that a
>total reinstallation is the only cure for whatever problems they're
>having. They seem to be quite adept at performing XP reinstallations.
>I suspect they would be just as adapt at a cold turkey installation if
>necessary. Usually, I get involved in cleaning up the mess after
>they're done, but the majority that try a reinstall seem to do it well
>enough.
Your customers are way smarter than my clients, most of whom would
almost certainly FUBAR a reinstall.
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The problem with new computers is that they come with a ton of crap on
them. Most new PC users get terrible performance because their pcs
are bogged down in bloatware and marketware.
And then, sometimes it all works and sometimes it does not...even when
it's new.
Also, they now come with Vista, which is more to learn.
The problem with used computers is that you have to know what you are
doing to buy used. You have to test them thoroughly when you get them
to see.
My current laptop is a $400 Thinkpad R50 (not typical) that came all
set up as new, with built-in wireless, 1 GB mem, 1 year guarantee left
on it, etc. etc. I had to return the first one I bought on Ebay (a
$500 T40) after thorough testing revealed that the USB ports were
truly stuck in 1.1. This indicated a motherboard problem. Also had a
sketchy DVD drive. Not obvious stuff. Long story, but the seller was
sincere and after 20-30 hours of testing and troubleshooting I was
certain it needed to be returned.
So, I saved money, but it cost me a lot of time. Of course, a new pc
can have problems too.
My backup is an older Compaq armada (built like a tank) that I got
for $250. No battery, no built in wireless, has 2002 level of
performance, but plays DVDs and works great!
In sum, computers are a pain in the ass, better consider it a hobby.
If you are not up for sorting it out, then hire somebody who does to
buy and set up a pc for you to do what you want to It will be worth
it. Make sure you have time to sort it out before you leave the
country if something is not right.
I did see some fair deals on Newegg on new or refurbished. Checking
right now, here's one I could recommend, if you are looking for
economy in a new laptop:
On 17 Feb 2007 15:05:46 -0800, "seaweedsteve" <seaweedsteve@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I did see some fair deals on Newegg on new or refurbished. Checking
>right now, here's one I could recommend, if you are looking for
>economy in a new laptop:
A few sources of referbished, remanufactured, rehashed, and rebuilt
laptops (other than eBay). I've bought from all of these with varying
degrees of success. The good news is that I haven't had to return
anything. However, I did have to do some minor repair and replace
some missing pieces.
HP and Compaq factory refurbished:
<http://www.hp.com/sbso/buspurchase_refurbished_computing.html>
<http://www.shopping.hp.com/outlet_store>
newbie laptop questions 
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