On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:41:55 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse"
<veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in <nx07h.94$%g1.54@fe01.usenetserver.com>:
>In alt.cellular.cingular SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>>> In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
>>>
>>> I remember seeing this done with florescent light bulbs. It was an inspiring
>>> demonstration for elementary school students in the 70s.
>>>
>>> There are issues of concern. In the United States, electricity is transferred
>>> in the power grid at 60Hz.
>>
>> The local grid is 60 Hz, but the long distance power transmission is
>> high voltage DC.
>
>We had this discussion before. Some of it is.
Steven doesn't let facts get in the way of stuff he makes up. ;)
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:51:52 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote in <455c7b04$0$88640$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>
>>Toshiba has Li-Ion batteries coming that can be fully charged in 10
>>minutes. The company claims that they will be out in 2008.
>
> [yawn] We've had 15 minute NiMH recharging for quite some time.
>
Yes, and it significantly decreases the life of the battery ... they simply
get too hot!
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
In alt.cellular.cingular Todd Allcock <ElecConnec@americaonline.com> wrote:
>
> This negativity coming from someone who thinks they'll be beaming power
> wirelessly to that same laptop soon?
>
> They'll probably be beaming your laptop from one place to another a la
> Star Trek before they'll ever be beaming power to it OTA! ;-)
>
Sheesh ... where did you come from? I am not so sure John said anything wrong
here.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:47:32 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse"
<veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in <EC07h.97$%g1.7@fe01.usenetserver.com>:
>In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:51:52 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote in <455c7b04$0$88640$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>>
>>>Toshiba has Li-Ion batteries coming that can be fully charged in 10
>>>minutes. The company claims that they will be out in 2008.
>>
>> [yawn] We've had 15 minute NiMH recharging for quite some time.
>
>Yes, and it significantly decreases the life of the battery ...
I got some of the first IC3 units on the market, and they are still
performing superbly, at least as well as conventional NiMH cells.
>they simply
>get too hot!
Temperature actually stays within the safe range for these IC3 NiMH
cells, due to self-monitoring in each cell.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
> I got some of the first IC3 units on the market, and they are still
> performing superbly, at least as well as conventional NiMH cells.
>
AA NiMH batteries are cheap enough that you can replace them and still make it
worth it if the life is shortened. I am not sure the scale of the damage, but
it is considered significant. If you go to Thomas Distributing, http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm, you will find many chargers
available that are built explicity to avoid this affect. I use one, the Maha
C401FS, http://www.thomas-distributing.com/mhc401fs.htm, which offers the
ability to recondition old batteries, slow and fast charge (not 15 minutes
though) and it does a very good job with getting the most out of my power
cells.
> Temperature actually stays within the safe range for these IC3 NiMH
> cells, due to self-monitoring in each cell.
>
Yes, they made the batteries safe, but they still allow the heat to get high
enough to reduce the life of the battery. It is a tradeoff between minimizing
the charge time or maximizing the usable cell life.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:41:29 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse"
> <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in <Zw07h.93$%g1.36@fe01.usenetserver.com>:
>
>>In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> While your concern is understandable, I think it's overdone -- the
>>> physics make such side effects unlikely.
>>
>>They ALWAYS find out that they didn't account for something after millions of
>>people have been exposed.
>
> Not always. People have been ranting about RF harm for years without
> any real justification.
How long have Cell Phones been in COMMON use? 15 years maximum? That is
hardly a significant duration. I still wonder what diseases our kids might be
getting after 50 years near constant cellular use. You think cancer is
rampant now ...
> I respectfully suggest you read (and understand) the paper before
> leaping to conclusions.
>
I understand it is a tesla coil and that they can pick the frequency of
resonance. There is nothing special about that. Since there IS power being
transmitted as radiation and since it is in a specific frequency band, it had
better be tested thoroughly as safe, because its adoption will be widespread
if it works. We all know that the more energetic the radiation exposure is,
the more potential damage. I have watched many people die of cancer, not the
least of which was my Father ... and I do NOT want another environmental risk
added in the name of consumption.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:58:46 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse"
<veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in
<aN07h.5957$XV2.1408@fe62.usenetserver.com>:
>In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I got some of the first IC3 units on the market, and they are still
>> performing superbly, at least as well as conventional NiMH cells.
>
>AA NiMH batteries are cheap enough that you can replace them and still make it
>worth it if the life is shortened. I am not sure the scale of the damage, but
>it is considered significant.
By whom? What actual evidence of damage to IC3 cells?
>If you go to Thomas Distributing,
>http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm, you will find many chargers
>available that are built explicity to avoid this affect. I use one, the Maha
>C401FS, http://www.thomas-distributing.com/mhc401fs.htm, which offers the
>ability to recondition old batteries, slow and fast charge (not 15 minutes
>though) and it does a very good job with getting the most out of my power
>cells.
There's some good stuff on that website, but there's some baloney as
well; e.g., reconditioning, which is a hangover from old NiCd designs
that doesn't even apply to modern NiCd designs, much less NiMH or LiIon.
FWIW, I have a MAHA charger, but it's old technology compared to IC3.
>> Temperature actually stays within the safe range for these IC3 NiMH
>> cells, due to self-monitoring in each cell.
>
>Yes, they made the batteries safe, but they still allow the heat to get high
>enough to reduce the life of the battery. It is a tradeoff between minimizing
>the charge time or maximizing the usable cell life.
Have you actually measured the temperature? I have, which is how I know
it stays within the recommended limit for NiMH cells.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> hath wroth:
>In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:51:52 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote in <455c7b04$0$88640$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>>
>>>Toshiba has Li-Ion batteries coming that can be fully charged in 10
>>>minutes. The company claims that they will be out in 2008.
>>
>> [yawn] We've had 15 minute NiMH recharging for quite some time.
>Yes, and it significantly decreases the life of the battery ... they simply
>get too hot!
Bad assumption. I've done some experiments in very fast charging NiCd
batteries at rates up to about 200 times the rated current to see what
happens (Learn By Destroying). The battery does not get warm until
overcharged. The trick is to determine when to stop charging. I
think I scribbled something on my tinkering in the past....
| http://groups.google.com/group/ba.in...a0088af9dd770d
As far as I can determine, I've seen no accelerated ageing problems
with such fast charging as long as I don't go over about 95% of full
charge. Those where I have exceeded full charge and have started
heating have died prematurely (or exploded). My guess is that the
only reason this is not being done in production units is the safety
issue. One mistake in such a fast charger and we have an explosion of
attorneys.
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>>>>><http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
>>>>>
>>>>> US researchers have outlined a relatively simple system that could
>>>>> deliver power to devices such as laptop computers or MP3 players
>>>>> wirelessly.
>Google and all the other search engines down?
Sorry, I was late for lunch and didn't even bother to look. Thanks
for the link.
>You're accusing MIT, these scientists, and a professional society of
>promulgating fiction, without having read the paper, based simply on
>your own quick assessment of a BBC article?
Well, yes. That's exactly what I did. I've done far more spectacular
jobs of shoving my foot in my mouth in the past, so I'm used to the
experience. Occasionally, I'm even right. What I posted is accurate
for a simple RF resonant transformer which is what I assumed was under
discussion. Apparently not.
>>What is unique is this section:
>> To overcome this problem, the team investigated a special class
>> of "non-radiative" objects with so-called "long-lived resonances".
>Again, I respectfully suggest you actually read the research instead of
>making assumptions and leaping from them to all those conclusions. I've
>hopefully now got you started.
Yep. Again, thanks for the link. I've read the 17 page article
several times and understand very little of it. I'm not a theoretical
physicist and the terminology, buzzwords, and notation is way over my
rapidly balding head. What I have been able to determine is that it
only works with:
"long-lifetime resonant electromagnetic states with localized
slowly-evanescent field patterns"
of which I've able to find very little. I found some research on
non-radiating objects in nano research under quantum dots, where
emissions from a quantum well does not propagate in the same manner as
conventional electromagnetic radiation.
The paper assumes that such a non-radiative phenomenon exists,
speculates as to how it might work for transferring energy, and how
human body interference might cause problems. This is quite proper as
the authors are all involved in the Center for Materials Science and
Engineering and Research Laboratory of Electronics at MIT.
Two examples are given. The "whispering gallery" construct, which are
two parabolic dish reflectors separated by a high dielectric material
disk. The other is a conventional resonant symmetrical RF transformer
composed of this non-radiative class of material.
The question of how one is to conjure such a non-radiative material
with long-lived resonances is not explored. I consider this to be a
rather fundamental problem thus making the immediate exploitation of
the theory into practical products a rather dubious proposition. The
supplied references to the technology (2,3,4, and 5) all refer to
conventional transformer action or RF power transmission, with no
mention of any exotic non-radiative material. As far as I can
determine, none of the other references offer anything better.
(Translation: The stuff doesn't exist yet).
Unless I missed something (a real possibility), the lack of any
references as to the nature of this non-radiative and long-lifetime
resonant (high Q) material suggests that the trade press may have
misinterpreted the purpose of the paper. It appears to be
calculations involving the feasibility of using such a material for
power transmission should such a material be found. In other words,
it's the traditional "more research is necessary" sales pitch for
funding research into finding such a material. Whether this can be
accomplished is subject to additional debate.
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:14:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<656pl25hfnecs0n71lmj167b8ldhjcdiud@4ax.com>:
>"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> hath wroth:
>
>>In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:51:52 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>> wrote in <455c7b04$0$88640$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>>>
>>>>Toshiba has Li-Ion batteries coming that can be fully charged in 10
>>>>minutes. The company claims that they will be out in 2008.
>>>
>>> [yawn] We've had 15 minute NiMH recharging for quite some time.
>
>>Yes, and it significantly decreases the life of the battery ... they simply
>>get too hot!
>
>Bad assumption. I've done some experiments in very fast charging NiCd
>batteries at rates up to about 200 times the rated current to see what
>happens (Learn By Destroying). The battery does not get warm until
>overcharged.
NiCd experience doesn't directly apply to NiMH, since NiCd is
sufficiently different from NiMH that different fast charging techniques
must be used. That's primarily because charging of:
* NiCd is endothermic (absorbs heat) until the point of overcharge
* NiMH is exothermic (gives off heat)
Thus NiMH gives off more heat than NiCd, especially during fast charge.
>The trick is to determine when to stop charging.
True, and the sudden rise in temperature of NiCd when they go into
overcharge is a common means of charge termination. NiMH is
sufficiently different that more subtle means of charge termination are
normally employed.
>I
>think I scribbled something on my tinkering in the past....
>| http://groups.google.com/group/ba.in...a0088af9dd770d
>As far as I can determine, I've seen no accelerated ageing problems
>with such fast charging as long as I don't go over about 95% of full
>charge.
NiMH batteries will readily tolerate operating temperatures of 55° C
(130° F), with safe charging up to cutoff at 75° C (167° F). This is of
course quite hot to the touch, which leads some people to think the
temperature is excessive.
>Those where I have exceeded full charge and have started
>heating have died prematurely (or exploded). My guess is that the
>only reason this is not being done in production units is the safety
>issue. One mistake in such a fast charger and we have an explosion of
>attorneys.
The primary issue with NiMH fast charge is overpressure and venting,
which results in damage to the cell.
For more info, see
<http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf>
<http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nickelmetalhydride_psds.pdf>
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
At 16 Nov 2006 16:48:51 +0000 Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> In alt.cellular.cingular Todd Allcock <ElecConnec@americaonline.com>
wrote:
> >
> Sheesh ... where did you come from? I am not so sure John said
anything wrong
> here.
I'm not saying he's necessarily wrong, I just found it ironic that John
completely poo-pooed an established (albeit imperfect) existing
technology like solar power, while promoting a so-far theoretical one in
the same thread.
Do I think we'll never see wireless power transmission? No, I just think
it's far enough away that we need not get too excited about it just yet!
Heck, I'm still waiting for my laptop's hydrogen fuel cell- how many new
power technologies can I get excited about? ;-)
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:59:07 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<g67pl25v4lp2kid6dlprsttbtttf66m72m@4ax.com>:
>The question of how one is to conjure such a non-radiative material
>with long-lived resonances is not explored. I consider this to be a
>rather fundamental problem thus making the immediate exploitation of
>the theory into practical products a rather dubious proposition. The
>supplied references to the technology (2,3,4, and 5) all refer to
>conventional transformer action or RF power transmission, with no
>mention of any exotic non-radiative material. As far as I can
>determine, none of the other references offer anything better.
>(Translation: The stuff doesn't exist yet).
Undoubtedly a long way from reality, although "acceptable" performance
appears to be possible without further breakthroughs.
>Unless I missed something (a real possibility), the lack of any
>references as to the nature of this non-radiative and long-lifetime
>resonant (high Q) material suggests that the trade press may have
>misinterpreted the purpose of the paper. It appears to be
>calculations involving the feasibility of using such a material for
>power transmission should such a material be found. In other words,
>it's the traditional "more research is necessary" sales pitch for
>funding research into finding such a material. Whether this can be
>accomplished is subject to additional debate.
While more research is called for, I think it's closer to practicality
than you suggest -- note that air exhibited the modeled high-Q
"acceptable" behavior.
In any event, it's promising and exciting! Note that calculations of
conducting loops performance show essentially no energy dissipated
inside the human.
p.s. I'm reminded of how physicists at the end of the 19th century
thought they knew everything, that nothing remained to be discovered.
LOL!
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:17:54 -0700, Todd Allcock
<ElecConnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
<455c9f3b$0$21160$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>At 16 Nov 2006 16:48:51 +0000 Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> In alt.cellular.cingular Todd Allcock <ElecConnec@americaonline.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Sheesh ... where did you come from? I am not so sure John said anything wrong
>> here.
>
>I'm not saying he's necessarily wrong, I just found it ironic that John
>completely poo-pooed an established (albeit imperfect) existing
>technology like solar power, while promoting a so-far theoretical one in
>the same thread.
To be clear, I was just pointing out that the energy density of solar
panels is too low to make them practical for powering a laptop computer.
And of course the cost is prohibitive.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>To be clear, I was just pointing out that the energy density of solar
>panels is too low to make them practical for powering a laptop computer.
>And of course the cost is prohibitive.
I am of course aware of such systems. We use solar trickle chargers on
sailboats all the time. They fill an important niche, and are fine if
you're willing and able to charge the battery for relatively long
daytime in order to get relatively short runtime.
I was talking indefinite power during the day, with enough reserve to
charge the battery for use during the night. For that you need a very
big and very expensive RV-type system.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>><http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
>>
>
>
> I remember seeing this done with florescent light bulbs. It was an inspiring
> demonstration for elementary school students in the 70s.
>
> There are issues of concern. In the United States, electricity is transferred
> in the power grid at 60Hz. 60Hz also corresponds to the frequency of the
> Lithium Ion (Li+). It has been shown that lithium ions will leave the skin of
> a human being when exposed to this frequency for an extensive period of time.
> Some have hypothesized that this may cause depression issues in some people,
> and others have suggested it may cause cancer. I recall this issue years ago,
> but it has been largely squashed; however, I was able to find this one
> resource:
>
> http://oaspub.epa.gov/eims/eimscomm....load_id=437194
>
> Now, my question is whether this same effect might exist when using a Tesla
> coil (that is how this is accomplished). I don't see why it wouldn't. I
> suspect that to alleviate concerns, they will have to find a frequency that
> they "determine" is safe and tool standardization along that path.
> Personally, I think that it is a bad idea from a health perspective and
> shouldn't be done without many decades of testing on animals. I would hate to
> be that pig.
>
So 60Hz is the freq. of the lithium ion? Got any references for that
statement? Sounds like you've been to the Tesla conference.
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:11:09 GMT, rob <robIV@piovere.com> wrote in
<xB37h.10702$mR4.589@tornado.texas.rr.com>:
>Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>><http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
>>
>> I remember seeing this done with florescent light bulbs. It was an inspiring
>> demonstration for elementary school students in the 70s.
>>
>> There are issues of concern. In the United States, electricity is transferred
>> in the power grid at 60Hz. 60Hz also corresponds to the frequency of the
>> Lithium Ion (Li+). It has been shown that lithium ions will leave the skin of
>> a human being when exposed to this frequency for an extensive period of time.
>> Some have hypothesized that this may cause depression issues in some people,
>> and others have suggested it may cause cancer. I recall this issue years ago,
>> but it has been largely squashed; however, I was able to find this one
>> resource:
>>
>> http://oaspub.epa.gov/eims/eimscomm....load_id=437194
>>
>> Now, my question is whether this same effect might exist when using a Tesla
>> coil (that is how this is accomplished). I don't see why it wouldn't. I
>> suspect that to alleviate concerns, they will have to find a frequency that
>> they "determine" is safe and tool standardization along that path.
>> Personally, I think that it is a bad idea from a health perspective and
>> shouldn't be done without many decades of testing on animals. I would hate to
>> be that pig.
>>
>So 60Hz is the freq. of the lithium ion? Got any references for that
>statement? Sounds like you've been to the Tesla conference.
See his citation. And note:
"DRAFT--DO NOT QUOTE OR CITE"
"The human evidence, as described in the next section, suggests that
magnetic fields, rather than electric fields, are associated with
cancer incidence..."
"Electric fields were not found to be a critical factor thus far."
This is the old unproven bugaboo of proximity to high-voltage electric
transmission lines, not low-voltage residential electric service.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
> To be clear, I was just pointing out that the energy density of solar
> panels is too low to make them practical for powering a laptop computer.
> And of course the cost is prohibitive.
I know, and I honestly wasn'ttrying to offend- my warped sence of humor
just found a delicious irony when you pointing out the (very real)
shortcomings of an existing technology while waxing poetic about one that
is still (mostly?) theoretical!
dOn Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:02:13 -0700, Todd Allcock
<ElecConnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
<455cd5bd$0$21080$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>:
>At 16 Nov 2006 19:17:31 +0000 John Navas wrote:
>
>> To be clear, I was just pointing out that the energy density of solar
>> panels is too low to make them practical for powering a laptop computer.
>> And of course the cost is prohibitive.
>
>I know, and I honestly wasn'ttrying to offend- my warped sence of humor
>just found a delicious irony when you pointing out the (very real)
>shortcomings of an existing technology while waxing poetic about one that
>is still (mostly?) theoretical!
Point taken.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
In article <8M-dnZ23B-Z6w8HYnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@adelphia.com>, George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>Gordon Montgomery wrote:
>> In article <455b7242$0$88706$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>>>> In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
>>>>>
>>>> I remember seeing this done with florescent light bulbs. It was an
> inspiring
>>>> demonstration for elementary school students in the 70s.
>>>>
>>>> There are issues of concern. In the United States, electricity is
>>> transferred
>>>> in the power grid at 60Hz.
>>> The local grid is 60 Hz, but the long distance power transmission is
>>> high voltage DC.
>>
>> High voltage AC.
>
>It can be either. It used to be AC but quite some time ago they
>developed efficient solid state methods to do the conversion. A number
>of utilities have high voltage DC transmission lines in service. My
>buddy works for one of them and they put one of the originals in service
>at least 25 years ago.
Yes, I searched after I opened my mouth ( insert foot ). However I still
maintain that most of the current operating long distance transmission
lines are HVAC. The articles I found listed a handful of HVDC lines, one
even originating in my home state of Utah. I learn new things every day.
Of course I forget them tomorrow so I can learn it again later, but that's
another story.
Gordon Montgomery
Living Scriptures, Inc gordon@lsi.com (anti spam - replace lsi with livingscriptures)
(801) 627-2000
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in
news:8hrml21jjpcuimcq3ojrm56qq50l2125u5@4ax.com:
>
> Google and all the other search engines down?
> Took me all of about 30 seconds to find:
>
> * "Wireless Non-Radiative Energy Transfer", Marin Soljacic, Aristeidis
> Karalis, and J.D.Joannopoulos. 2006 AIP Industrial Physics Forum in
> San Francisco (CA), USA, 2006. [Key words there are "non-radiative"]
>
> * <http://eprintweb.org/S/article/physics/0611063>
> physics/0611063 (November 2006)
> Wireless Non-Radiative Energy Transfer
> Aristeidis Karalis, J. D. Joannopoulos and Marin Soljacic
> Received. 07 November 2006 Last updated. 07 November 2006
> Abstract. We investigate whether, and to what extent, the physical
> phenomenon of long-lifetime resonant electromagnetic states with
> localized slowly-evanescent field patterns can be used to transfer
> energy efficiently, even in the presence of extraneous environmental
> objects. Via detailed theoretical and numerical analyses of typical
> real-world model-situations and realistic material parameters, we
> establish that such a non-radiative scheme could indeed be practical
> for medium-range wireless energy transfer.
> Subject. Optics; Classical Physics
> Comment. 17 pages, 6 figures
> Article Options
> Full Text [link]
So, you're giving someone a hard time because you googled stuff you don't
understand and they didn't bother?
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:26:41 GMT, gordon@lsi.com (Gordon Montgomery)
wrote in <12lq0e2540kpb78@corp.supernews.com>:
>In article <8M-dnZ23B-Z6w8HYnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@adelphia.com>, George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>Gordon Montgomery wrote:
>>> In article <455b7242$0$88706$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS
>> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>>>>> In alt.cellular.cingular John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6129460.stm>:
>>>>>>
>>>>> I remember seeing this done with florescent light bulbs. It was an
>> inspiring
>>>>> demonstration for elementary school students in the 70s.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are issues of concern. In the United States, electricity is
>>>> transferred
>>>>> in the power grid at 60Hz.
>>>> The local grid is 60 Hz, but the long distance power transmission is
>>>> high voltage DC.
>>>
>>> High voltage AC.
>>
>>It can be either. It used to be AC but quite some time ago they
>>developed efficient solid state methods to do the conversion. A number
>>of utilities have high voltage DC transmission lines in service. My
>>buddy works for one of them and they put one of the originals in service
>>at least 25 years ago.
>Yes, I searched after I opened my mouth ( insert foot ). However I still
>maintain that most of the current operating long distance transmission
>lines are HVAC. ...
Correct.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
John Navas wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:17:54 -0700, Todd Allcock
>> I'm not saying he's necessarily wrong, I just found it ironic that John
>> completely poo-pooed an established (albeit imperfect) existing
>> technology like solar power, while promoting a so-far theoretical one in
>> the same thread.
>
> To be clear, I was just pointing out that the energy density of solar
> panels is too low to make them practical for powering a laptop computer.
> And of course the cost is prohibitive.
Nonsense, I use solar power often when out in the field for extended
periods. Cost effectiveness isn't an issue when there aren't other
viable power sources.
John Navas wrote:
> I was talking indefinite power during the day, with enough reserve to
> charge the battery for use during the night. For that you need a very
> big and very expensive RV-type system.
Four hours of good sunlight gives me almost 30 kilowatts of stored power.
Its not that expensive. Tad under $5,000.
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:52:31 GMT, decaturtxcowboy
<nope_none_@nowayspam.com> wrote in
<jJ77h.16185$B31.11637@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> :
>John Navas wrote:
>> I was talking indefinite power during the day, with enough reserve to
>> charge the battery for use during the night. For that you need a very
>> big and very expensive RV-type system.
>
>Four hours of good sunlight gives me almost 30 kilowatts of stored power.
>Its not that expensive. Tad under $5,000.
LOL!
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:49:12 GMT, decaturtxcowboy
<nope_none_@nowayspam.com> wrote in
<cG77h.16184$B31.5866@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net >:
>John Navas wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:17:54 -0700, Todd Allcock
>>> I'm not saying he's necessarily wrong, I just found it ironic that John
>>> completely poo-pooed an established (albeit imperfect) existing
>>> technology like solar power, while promoting a so-far theoretical one in
>>> the same thread.
>>
>> To be clear, I was just pointing out that the energy density of solar
>> panels is too low to make them practical for powering a laptop computer.
>> And of course the cost is prohibitive.
>
>Nonsense, I use solar power often when out in the field for extended
>periods. Cost effectiveness isn't an issue when there aren't other
>viable power sources.
There are of course other viable power sources.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330050722236>
Way less expensive than an RV-type solar system.
Way more powerful.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
John Navas wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:52:31 GMT, decaturtxcowboy
> <nope_none_@nowayspam.com> wrote in
> <jJ77h.16185$B31.11637@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> :
>
>> John Navas wrote:
>>> I was talking indefinite power during the day, with enough reserve to
>>> charge the battery for use during the night. For that you need a very
>>> big and very expensive RV-type system.
>> Four hours of good sunlight gives me almost 30 kilowatts of stored power.
>> Its not that expensive. Tad under $5,000.
>
> LOL!
Re: NEWS: Physics promises wireless power 
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