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Old 01-27-2007, 07:10 PM
John Navas
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Default NEWS: WTF has my Wi-Fi network gone?

<http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/26/headaches_missing_wifi_connection/>

By Tony Smith

Hardware Headaches I own a Linksys WRT54G wireless router
and in the four years I've had it, I've connected it to two Macs, two
PCs, a Nintendo Wii and a host of handhelds. It's been a joy to use,
more so than the Proxim box I used to own. Until now. Over the last
month or so, it's begun to drop connections randomly and without
warning. Parts of my home once in reach of its transmitter have
mysteriously become dead zones...

Judging from the activity in a number of Mac-centric online forums,
my experience is shared by many Wi-Fi users and owners of a wide
array of access points from almost every vendor. To fellow sufferers
trying desperately to connect with a Mac, I'd point out that PCs are
no better, sometimes worse if you use Windows XP itself to connect
rather than third-party tools like the utility Intel ships with its
wireless products.

Netgear rather kindly passed one of its travel wireless routers my
way, a smart, easy-to-use way to share a broadband internet
connection when you're out and about. I tried it at home in place of
the Linksys box, but the results were the same: excellent coverage
and connectivity most of the time spoiled by unexplained link losses.

Now, when I installed the WRT54G, it detected maybe four nearby
WLANs. When I put the Proxim in there weren't any at all. Now, the
number's up to eight. A new one, clearly maintained by an Apple
AirPort Extreme base-station, appeared for the first time last night.
All this in a fairly typical London street.

I started out on Channel 1, moving to Channel 11 when I installed the
Linksys. I upgraded from WEP to WPA at the same time. Since then,
I've shifted to Channel 6. While most other WLANs are using 1 or 11,
more are starting to use 6 as their owners perceive they may get a
less crowded frequency. The open source tool iStumbler
(http://www.istumbler.net/) reveals just how busy the 2.4GHz band is
becoming around me.

So what's the problem? What's causing me to (metaphorically speaking)
tear out my hair trying to figure out what's going on, and making my
other half loudly complain (literally) that she has a crucial
deadline to meet and can't connect to send email?

The weight of similar stories posted online suggests my circumstances
are in no way uncommon. So what do we have here? Is the Wi-Fi
standard simply incapable of coping with a certain density of access
points at a given location? Is there an issue with the longevity of
the hardware? Are pre-802.11n products indeed hindering the ability
for older 802.11b and 802.11g hardware from connecting correctly?

Whatever the problem, users have a case the Wi-Fi vendors and
standards-setters must answer. We're clearly running up to the limits
of the technology, not in terms of data throughput speeds, but how
many WLANs can co-exist and still operate efficiently. If they don't
they're in serious danger of badly disappointing consumers who've
either splashed out on new wireless hardware or been led to believe
it's the best thing since sliced bread by service providers.

I'm in Wi-Fi range of more than eight houses and apartments, and if
the adoption of domestic WLANs continues at the current rate, no
one's going to be able to connect soon. Wi-Fi has gone beyond early
adopters like me as ISPs and TV services have pitched wireless
networking to consumers, all on the assumption that the user will be
the only one with a WLAN in the vicinity.

It's only going to get worse, as more folk are encouraged to use
wireless technology to pump HD content around the home.

Maybe I should ditch all this wireless kit and start plugging in
powerline Ethernet adaptors - like the ones offered by Netgear
(http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01...etgear_hdx101/) and
Devolo

(http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01...an_200_avdesk/)
- around my home. I lose the freedom of movement wireless provides,
but at least I'll be sure of a connection.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2007, 01:31 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: NEWS: WTF has my Wi-Fi network gone?

John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:

> The open source tool iStumbler
> (http://www.istumbler.net/) reveals just how busy the 2.4GHz band is
> becoming around me.
>
> So what's the problem? What's causing me to (metaphorically speaking)
> tear out my hair trying to figure out what's going on, and making my
> other half loudly complain (literally) that she has a crucial
> deadline to meet and can't connect to send email?


Yep... that's about it. The surest sign of success is pollution and
2.4GHz wireless is certainly very successful.

I ran the calculations a few days ago:
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/msg/ca54707e2ac77d33>
There were 27 wi-fi devices per square mile added in the US in 2006.
If we include the previous years sales, it's 49 radios per square
mile, or one wi-fi device for every 883 square feet over the entire US
including unpopulated areas. There are a mess of assumptions involved
in this calculation, but I suspect it's in the ballpark. So, how many
of these are going to show up on the authors iStumbler probe? Very
few thanks the lousy advice by security experts telling people to turn
off their SSID broadcast, and the marginal backwards compatibility of
the newer 108Mbit/sec and 802.11n systems (depending on how they're
configured). Add in the huge number of 2.4GHz cordless phones and
2.4GHz microwave ovens and I'm amazed that anything works.




--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2007, 01:36 AM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: WTF has my Wi-Fi network gone?

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:31:35 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<okunr258qm4sjn93goh4ro9mnqd6tb75ld@4ax.com>:

>John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>
>> The open source tool iStumbler
>> (http://www.istumbler.net/) reveals just how busy the 2.4GHz band is
>> becoming around me.
>>
>> So what's the problem? What's causing me to (metaphorically speaking)
>> tear out my hair trying to figure out what's going on, and making my
>> other half loudly complain (literally) that she has a crucial
>> deadline to meet and can't connect to send email?

>
>Yep... that's about it. The surest sign of success is pollution and
>2.4GHz wireless is certainly very successful.
>
>I ran the calculations a few days ago:
><http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/msg/ca54707e2ac77d33>
>There were 27 wi-fi devices per square mile added in the US in 2006.
>If we include the previous years sales, it's 49 radios per square
>mile, or one wi-fi device for every 883 square feet over the entire US
>including unpopulated areas. There are a mess of assumptions involved
>in this calculation, but I suspect it's in the ballpark. So, how many
>of these are going to show up on the authors iStumbler probe? Very
>few thanks the lousy advice by security experts telling people to turn
>off their SSID broadcast, and the marginal backwards compatibility of
>the newer 108Mbit/sec and 802.11n systems (depending on how they're
>configured). Add in the huge number of 2.4GHz cordless phones and
>2.4GHz microwave ovens and I'm amazed that anything works.


I knew you'd love this story! :)

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2007, 08:03 PM
Bill Kearney
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Default Re: WTF has my Wi-Fi network gone?

> Maybe I should ditch all this wireless kit and start plugging in
> powerline Ethernet adaptors


Uh no, if you think airwave pollution is bad just wait until you find out
how bad powerline noise can be.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2007, 08:30 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: WTF has my Wi-Fi network gone?

John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:

>I knew you'd love this story! :)


Yep. However, I'm slipping. I forgot to also rant about RF pollution
from 2.4GHz taxpayer sponsored municipal wireless systems. These
aren't the usual insipid 35mw home wireless router with a minimal 2dBi
antenna, but tend to be the maximum legal power 1000mw into a 6dBi
omni antenna for maximum interference potential. In addition, the
mesh topology insures that there will be 2-4 times the packet
transmissions for every packet passed (store and forward), insuring
that it also hogs all the available airtime.

The end of wireless as we know it will shortly be upon us. Repent
your evil ways or face eternal damnation, government imposed
solutions, and intermittent wireless dropped connections.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2007, 01:41 AM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: WTF has my Wi-Fi network gone?

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:03:01 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
<wkearney-99@hot-mail-com> wrote in
<8qWdnVQ3KMb7nCDYnZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@speakeasy.net> :

>> Maybe I should ditch all this wireless kit and start plugging in
>> powerline Ethernet adaptors

>
>Uh no, if you think airwave pollution is bad just wait until you find out
>how bad powerline noise can be.


So use phone line or coax networking.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2007, 05:06 PM
SMS
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: WTF has my Wi-Fi network gone?

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>
>> I knew you'd love this story! :)

>
> Yep. However, I'm slipping. I forgot to also rant about RF pollution
> from 2.4GHz taxpayer sponsored municipal wireless systems. These
> aren't the usual insipid 35mw home wireless router with a minimal 2dBi
> antenna, but tend to be the maximum legal power 1000mw into a 6dBi
> omni antenna for maximum interference potential. In addition, the
> mesh topology insures that there will be 2-4 times the packet
> transmissions for every packet passed (store and forward), insuring
> that it also hogs all the available airtime.


Metro-Fi is really screwing up my wireless network. I can see their
transceiver from my back yard, and the "RF Pollution" is a big issue.

If it were a more usable network then I'd dump my DSL, and use a VPN
service to eliminate the advertisements on Metro-Fi.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2007, 06:00 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: WTF has my Wi-Fi network gone?

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> hath wroth:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>>
>>> I knew you'd love this story! :)

>>
>> Yep. However, I'm slipping. I forgot to also rant about RF pollution
>> from 2.4GHz taxpayer sponsored municipal wireless systems. These
>> aren't the usual insipid 35mw home wireless router with a minimal 2dBi
>> antenna, but tend to be the maximum legal power 1000mw into a 6dBi
>> omni antenna for maximum interference potential. In addition, the
>> mesh topology insures that there will be 2-4 times the packet
>> transmissions for every packet passed (store and forward), insuring
>> that it also hogs all the available airtime.


>Metro-Fi is really screwing up my wireless network. I can see their
>transceiver from my back yard, and the "RF Pollution" is a big issue.


It works both ways. You're probably also screwing up their wireless
network. That's really the problem with deploying mesh networks in
areas with large numbers of existing wireless devices. The mutual and
self-interference is fatal. Did you catch my calculation that there
are about 49 wireless devices per square mile for the entire USA?
That's very dense.

>If it were a more usable network then I'd dump my DSL, and use a VPN
>service to eliminate the advertisements on Metro-Fi.


Is Metro-Fi still spewing continuous ARP broadcasts?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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