Powerline ethernet adapters any good? Difference in powerline speed over direct connect Wireless?

I have a Range Extender (Linksys) downstairs in my home but signal is
still weak no matter where I place it. Can connect but want a better
and stronger connection.

Upstairs-have a Linksys with Speedbooster router with (WRT54GS) 2 third
party 12 db replacement antennas. Tried placing router and antennas
everywhere. I really need a stronger signal.

I want to either run Cat5 downstairs and then connect to a another
wireless router (WAP)

OR use some Powerline modules via outlets and connect to another WAP
wireless router..

My question: How much signal loss is there via Powerline adapters to a
WAP -over- using my Cat5 to WAP??

I have one circuit breaker box in home. Home is 5 years old.


Thank you very much for this nebulous and perhaps oft asked question.

I could perhaps use 3rd party firmware on my router (WRT) but hate to
make a brick out of it which I have done once b4 using SVEAsoft. Rather
keep firmware intact.

Sincerely
Patty

pattyjamas@hotmail.com wrote:
> I have a Range Extender (Linksys) downstairs in my home but signal is
> still weak no matter where I place it. Can connect but want a better
> and stronger connection.
>
> Upstairs-have a Linksys with Speedbooster router with (WRT54GS) 2
> third party 12 db replacement antennas. Tried placing router and
> antennas everywhere. I really need a stronger signal.
>
> I want to either run Cat5 downstairs and then connect to a another
> wireless router (WAP)
>
> OR use some Powerline modules via outlets and connect to another WAP
> wireless router..
>
> My question: How much signal loss is there via Powerline adapters to a
> WAP -over- using my Cat5 to WAP??
>
> I have one circuit breaker box in home. Home is 5 years old.
>
>
> Thank you very much for this nebulous and perhaps oft asked question.
>
> I could perhaps use 3rd party firmware on my router (WRT) but hate to
> make a brick out of it which I have done once b4 using SVEAsoft.
> Rather keep firmware intact.
>
> Sincerely
> Patty

Two things.. Powerline networking is REALLY cool, and way way faster than
wireless, ones from netdisk are up to 54Mbps/85 Mbps/200Mbps (used to only
be 14Mbps, they have come a long way), and do NOT have to be on the same
breaker at all
see
<http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDX101.aspx>
and
<http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDXB101.aspx>
and
http://www.netgear.com/Products/Brid...Specifications

Be aware, that while they work great for computers/gaming stuff/etc, they do
NOT work for extending wireless from one router to the wan input of another

Wanted to extend from one wap/router to another and increase the hot area
size, but it didn't want to work from output of one to input of another...
Then I realized, there are power plugs in almost every room (and the
sunroom/garage/etc.. why almost? none in the sauna - can't cook my body and
be on the net at the same time - just an aside a radio won't even work in
there, so saunas must be rf shielded)
At any rate, was simple enuf to use it as a hardwire to nearest plug.. Have
all 6 laptops and the PDA working, sharing files and printers, on the same
network..

Ps, you can use the powerline stuff to create a separate subnet, but I
wanted them all to be on the same and it won't do that....

Thanks!!


Interesting. I thought I read that Powerline even though rated at up to
85Mbps do not ever reach those rates, perhaps up to 30Mbps and even
then it depends on wiring of course.

****Was not aware that hooking from Powerline to another router (WAP)
could be a problem.

**Anyone else share these same sentiments as "Peter Pan's" reply b4 I
try Powerline and a WAP Router as opposed to Ethernet from my router to
another remote WAP router.

Thanks so much.
Patty
_____
Peter Pan wrote:
> pattyjamas@hotmail.com wrote:
> > I have a Range Extender (Linksys) downstairs in my home but signal is
> > still weak no matter where I place it. Can connect but want a better
> > and stronger connection.
> >
> > Upstairs-have a Linksys with Speedbooster router with (WRT54GS) 2
> > third party 12 db replacement antennas. Tried placing router and
> > antennas everywhere. I really need a stronger signal.
> >
> > I want to either run Cat5 downstairs and then connect to a another
> > wireless router (WAP)
> >
> > OR use some Powerline modules via outlets and connect to another WAP
> > wireless router..
> >
> > My question: How much signal loss is there via Powerline adapters to a
> > WAP -over- using my Cat5 to WAP??
> >
> > I have one circuit breaker box in home. Home is 5 years old.
> >
> >
> > Thank you very much for this nebulous and perhaps oft asked question.
> >
> > I could perhaps use 3rd party firmware on my router (WRT) but hate to
> > make a brick out of it which I have done once b4 using SVEAsoft.
> > Rather keep firmware intact.
> >
> > Sincerely
> > Patty
>
> Two things.. Powerline networking is REALLY cool, and way way faster than
> wireless, ones from netdisk are up to 54Mbps/85 Mbps/200Mbps (used to only
> be 14Mbps, they have come a long way), and do NOT have to be on the same
> breaker at all
> see
> <http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDX101.aspx>
> and
> <http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDXB101.aspx>
> and
> http://www.netgear.com/Products/Brid...Specifications
>
> Be aware, that while they work great for computers/gaming stuff/etc, they do
> NOT work for extending wireless from one router to the wan input of another
>
> Wanted to extend from one wap/router to another and increase the hot area
> size, but it didn't want to work from output of one to input of another...
> Then I realized, there are power plugs in almost every room (and the
> sunroom/garage/etc.. why almost? none in the sauna - can't cook my body and
> be on the net at the same time - just an aside a radio won't even work in
> there, so saunas must be rf shielded)
> At any rate, was simple enuf to use it as a hardwire to nearest plug.. Have
> all 6 laptops and the PDA working, sharing files and printers, on the same
> network..
>
> Ps, you can use the powerline stuff to create a separate subnet, but I
> wanted them all to be on the same and it won't do that....

Peter,
You wrote in a different posting that the Powerline's were fine from
Router to WAP Router. Are you saying they do not work now?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.i...bf62bca6a552fb

"FWIW I have and use the XE103's and they work great with a wap/router
on
each end (same ssid so I have a large hotspot at my house), the 101's
have
only been out for a few months and I haven't used the newer models so
can't
say if there will be any probs with them (none so far with the 103's) "

Perhaps I misunderstood this other posting.
Thanks for any clarification.

Patty

_______________
Peter Pan wrote:
> pattyjamas@hotmail.com wrote:
> > I have a Range Extender (Linksys) downstairs in my home but signal is
> > still weak no matter where I place it. Can connect but want a better
> > and stronger connection.
> >
> > Upstairs-have a Linksys with Speedbooster router with (WRT54GS) 2
> > third party 12 db replacement antennas. Tried placing router and
> > antennas everywhere. I really need a stronger signal.
> >
> > I want to either run Cat5 downstairs and then connect to a another
> > wireless router (WAP)
> >
> > OR use some Powerline modules via outlets and connect to another WAP
> > wireless router..
> >
> > My question: How much signal loss is there via Powerline adapters to a
> > WAP -over- using my Cat5 to WAP??
> >
> > I have one circuit breaker box in home. Home is 5 years old.
> >
> >
> > Thank you very much for this nebulous and perhaps oft asked question.
> >
> > I could perhaps use 3rd party firmware on my router (WRT) but hate to
> > make a brick out of it which I have done once b4 using SVEAsoft.
> > Rather keep firmware intact.
> >
> > Sincerely
> > Patty
>
> Two things.. Powerline networking is REALLY cool, and way way faster than
> wireless, ones from netdisk are up to 54Mbps/85 Mbps/200Mbps (used to only
> be 14Mbps, they have come a long way), and do NOT have to be on the same
> breaker at all
> see
> <http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDX101.aspx>
> and
> <http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDXB101.aspx>
> and
> http://www.netgear.com/Products/Brid...Specifications
>
> Be aware, that while they work great for computers/gaming stuff/etc, they do
> NOT work for extending wireless from one router to the wan input of another
>
> Wanted to extend from one wap/router to another and increase the hot area
> size, but it didn't want to work from output of one to input of another...
> Then I realized, there are power plugs in almost every room (and the
> sunroom/garage/etc.. why almost? none in the sauna - can't cook my body and
> be on the net at the same time - just an aside a radio won't even work in
> there, so saunas must be rf shielded)
> At any rate, was simple enuf to use it as a hardwire to nearest plug.. Have
> all 6 laptops and the PDA working, sharing files and printers, on the same
> network..
>
> Ps, you can use the powerline stuff to create a separate subnet, but I
> wanted them all to be on the same and it won't do that....

They work, but as different subnets... (you can share internet access, but a
computer on one subnet won't see ones on the other subnet, in actuality it
did finally work on the same subnet but it took a lot of messing around, and
I sure wouldn't recommend it or remember how the heck I finally did it..
When the router died in the garage, I went with plan B and just did the
hardwire)

In my situation, I was trying to put another wap/router in the garage
(Northern Idaho/5 Acres, about 800 ft away from the house, but powered from
the house, via underground power cable).. I could use the laptops on the
wap/router in the garage and see the internet, but not the puters in the
house... I went with just powerline networking to a hardwire to/on a laptop
in the garage. Same transmitter lets me use the power plug for network
access on the barn (about 1/4 mile back), and in the guest cabin (about a
mile back) both with electric power from the house.

No matter how fast something is it only gets the speed of your internet
connection... dial up 56k, DSL 3Mb, Cable 6Mb, sat 15Mb... so if you have
something over those numbers, you are only gonna be able to access the
internet at the slowest parts speed anyway... Powerline and wireless are
faster than any internet input source, so you will always run faster than
the internet input anyway...




pattyjamas@hotmail.com wrote:
> Peter,
> You wrote in a different posting that the Powerline's were fine from
> Router to WAP Router. Are you saying they do not work now?
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.i...bf62bca6a552fb
>
> "FWIW I have and use the XE103's and they work great with a wap/router
> on
> each end (same ssid so I have a large hotspot at my house), the 101's
> have
> only been out for a few months and I haven't used the newer models so
> can't
> say if there will be any probs with them (none so far with the 103's)
> "
>
> Perhaps I misunderstood this other posting.
> Thanks for any clarification.
>
> Patty
>
> _______________
> Peter Pan wrote:
>> pattyjamas@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> I have a Range Extender (Linksys) downstairs in my home but signal
>>> is still weak no matter where I place it. Can connect but want a
>>> better and stronger connection.
>>>
>>> Upstairs-have a Linksys with Speedbooster router with (WRT54GS) 2
>>> third party 12 db replacement antennas. Tried placing router and
>>> antennas everywhere. I really need a stronger signal.
>>>
>>> I want to either run Cat5 downstairs and then connect to a another
>>> wireless router (WAP)
>>>
>>> OR use some Powerline modules via outlets and connect to another WAP
>>> wireless router..
>>>
>>> My question: How much signal loss is there via Powerline adapters
>>> to a WAP -over- using my Cat5 to WAP??
>>>
>>> I have one circuit breaker box in home. Home is 5 years old.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for this nebulous and perhaps oft asked
>>> question.
>>>
>>> I could perhaps use 3rd party firmware on my router (WRT) but hate
>>> to make a brick out of it which I have done once b4 using SVEAsoft.
>>> Rather keep firmware intact.
>>>
>>> Sincerely
>>> Patty
>>
>> Two things.. Powerline networking is REALLY cool, and way way faster
>> than wireless, ones from netdisk are up to 54Mbps/85 Mbps/200Mbps
>> (used to only be 14Mbps, they have come a long way), and do NOT have
>> to be on the same breaker at all
>> see
>> <http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDX101.aspx>
>> and
>> <http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDXB101.aspx>
>> and
>> http://www.netgear.com/Products/Brid...Specifications
>>
>> Be aware, that while they work great for computers/gaming stuff/etc,
>> they do NOT work for extending wireless from one router to the wan
>> input of another
>>
>> Wanted to extend from one wap/router to another and increase the hot
>> area size, but it didn't want to work from output of one to input of
>> another... Then I realized, there are power plugs in almost every
>> room (and the sunroom/garage/etc.. why almost? none in the sauna -
>> can't cook my body and be on the net at the same time - just an
>> aside a radio won't even work in there, so saunas must be rf
>> shielded)
>> At any rate, was simple enuf to use it as a hardwire to nearest
>> plug.. Have all 6 laptops and the PDA working, sharing files and
>> printers, on the same network..
>>
>> Ps, you can use the powerline stuff to create a separate subnet, but
>> I wanted them all to be on the same and it won't do that....

Peter Pan wrote:

> pattyjamas@hotmail.com wrote:
>> I have a Range Extender (Linksys) downstairs in my home but signal is
>> still weak no matter where I place it. Can connect but want a better
>> and stronger connection.
>>
>> Upstairs-have a Linksys with Speedbooster router with (WRT54GS) 2
>> third party 12 db replacement antennas. Tried placing router and
>> antennas everywhere. I really need a stronger signal.
>>
>> I want to either run Cat5 downstairs and then connect to a another
>> wireless router (WAP)
>>
>> OR use some Powerline modules via outlets and connect to another WAP
>> wireless router..
>>
>> My question: How much signal loss is there via Powerline adapters to a
>> WAP -over- using my Cat5 to WAP??
>>
>> I have one circuit breaker box in home. Home is 5 years old.
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much for this nebulous and perhaps oft asked question.
>>
>> I could perhaps use 3rd party firmware on my router (WRT) but hate to
>> make a brick out of it which I have done once b4 using SVEAsoft.
>> Rather keep firmware intact.
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Patty
>
> Two things.. Powerline networking is REALLY cool, and way way faster than
> wireless, ones from netdisk are up to 54Mbps/85 Mbps/200Mbps (used to only
> be 14Mbps, they have come a long way), and do NOT have to be on the same
> breaker at all
> see
>
<http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDX101.aspx>
> and
>
<http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDXB101.aspx>
> and
>
http://www.netgear.com/Products/Brid...Specifications
>
> Be aware, that while they work great for computers/gaming stuff/etc, they
> do NOT work for extending wireless from one router to the wan input of
> another
>
> Wanted to extend from one wap/router to another and increase the hot area
> size, but it didn't want to work from output of one to input of another...
> Then I realized, there are power plugs in almost every room (and the
> sunroom/garage/etc.. why almost? none in the sauna - can't cook my body
> and be on the net at the same time - just an aside a radio won't even work
> in there, so saunas must be rf shielded)
> At any rate, was simple enuf to use it as a hardwire to nearest plug..
> Have all 6 laptops and the PDA working, sharing files and printers, on the
> same network..
>
> Ps, you can use the powerline stuff to create a separate subnet, but I
> wanted them all to be on the same and it won't do that....

Long (very long) ago, I had a pair of "wireless" intercoms that communicated
over the powerlines. They worked only when both were on the same phase of
the AC line ... not necessarily on the same breaker. More recently, I
played with X10 remote control modules that also work only when connected
to the same phase. As (my) luck would have it, the most convenient outlet
pairs are sometimes not on the same phase, and so no talkie.

Do the powerline nics have the same problem?

Roby wrote:
>
> Long (very long) ago, I had a pair of "wireless" intercoms that
> communicated over the powerlines. They worked only when both were on
> the same phase of the AC line ... not necessarily on the same
> breaker. More recently, I played with X10 remote control modules
> that also work only when connected to the same phase. As (my) luck
> would have it, the most convenient outlet pairs are sometimes not on
> the same phase, and so no talkie.
>
> Do the powerline nics have the same problem?

Never ran into multiples phases in a house, did run into a problem on a ship
with two generators, and the network didn't feed thru to the other
generators power lines.. In that instance, we just used two in the AC plugs
for each in the power room (one on each line, and jumped em with a cat 5
cable so they would work as one).. Suppose you could do that in a
home/business/etc too with multiple phases (circuits?).. Units are about $50
each, and you can have as many as you want...

Sounds like the network might work for anybody on the same power pole
transformer, even at different residences. Possible?

Peter Pan wrote:
> Roby wrote:
>> Long (very long) ago, I had a pair of "wireless" intercoms that
>> communicated over the powerlines. They worked only when both were on
>> the same phase of the AC line ... not necessarily on the same
>> breaker. More recently, I played with X10 remote control modules
>> that also work only when connected to the same phase. As (my) luck
>> would have it, the most convenient outlet pairs are sometimes not on
>> the same phase, and so no talkie.
>>
>> Do the powerline nics have the same problem?
>
> Never ran into multiples phases in a house, did run into a problem on a ship
> with two generators, and the network didn't feed thru to the other
> generators power lines.. In that instance, we just used two in the AC plugs
> for each in the power room (one on each line, and jumped em with a cat 5
> cable so they would work as one).. Suppose you could do that in a
> home/business/etc too with multiple phases (circuits?).. Units are about $50
> each, and you can have as many as you want...
>
>

Roby <roby@no-address.net> wrote:

>Peter Pan wrote:
>
>> pattyjamas@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> I have a Range Extender (Linksys) downstairs in my home but signal is
>>> still weak no matter where I place it. Can connect but want a better
>>> and stronger connection.
>>>
>>> Upstairs-have a Linksys with Speedbooster router with (WRT54GS) 2
>>> third party 12 db replacement antennas. Tried placing router and
>>> antennas everywhere. I really need a stronger signal.
>>>
>>> I want to either run Cat5 downstairs and then connect to a another
>>> wireless router (WAP)
>>>
>>> OR use some Powerline modules via outlets and connect to another WAP
>>> wireless router..
>>>
>>> My question: How much signal loss is there via Powerline adapters to a
>>> WAP -over- using my Cat5 to WAP??
>>>
>>> I have one circuit breaker box in home. Home is 5 years old.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for this nebulous and perhaps oft asked question.
>>>
>>> I could perhaps use 3rd party firmware on my router (WRT) but hate to
>>> make a brick out of it which I have done once b4 using SVEAsoft.
>>> Rather keep firmware intact.
>>>
>>> Sincerely
>>> Patty
>>
>> Two things.. Powerline networking is REALLY cool, and way way faster than
>> wireless, ones from netdisk are up to 54Mbps/85 Mbps/200Mbps (used to only
>> be 14Mbps, they have come a long way), and do NOT have to be on the same
>> breaker at all
>> see
>>
><http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDX101.aspx>
>> and
>>
><http://www.netgear.com/Products/BridgesAccessPointsandExtenders/PowerlineWallPluggedExtenders/HDXB101.aspx>
>> and
>>
>http://www.netgear.com/Products/Brid...Specifications
>>
>> Be aware, that while they work great for computers/gaming stuff/etc, they
>> do NOT work for extending wireless from one router to the wan input of
>> another
>>
>> Wanted to extend from one wap/router to another and increase the hot area
>> size, but it didn't want to work from output of one to input of another...
>> Then I realized, there are power plugs in almost every room (and the
>> sunroom/garage/etc.. why almost? none in the sauna - can't cook my body
>> and be on the net at the same time - just an aside a radio won't even work
>> in there, so saunas must be rf shielded)
>> At any rate, was simple enuf to use it as a hardwire to nearest plug..
>> Have all 6 laptops and the PDA working, sharing files and printers, on the
>> same network..
>>
>> Ps, you can use the powerline stuff to create a separate subnet, but I
>> wanted them all to be on the same and it won't do that....
>
>Long (very long) ago, I had a pair of "wireless" intercoms that communicated
>over the powerlines. They worked only when both were on the same phase of
>the AC line ... not necessarily on the same breaker. More recently, I
>played with X10 remote control modules that also work only when connected
>to the same phase. As (my) luck would have it, the most convenient outlet
>pairs are sometimes not on the same phase, and so no talkie.
>
>Do the powerline nics have the same problem?


For the x-10 you can get a capacitor that you put accross the
different phases.. If you do a search you might find something.

> Peter Pan wrote:
>> Roby wrote:
>>> Long (very long) ago, I had a pair of "wireless" intercoms that
>>> communicated over the powerlines. They worked only when both were
>>> on the same phase of the AC line ... not necessarily on the same
>>> breaker. More recently, I played with X10 remote control modules
>>> that also work only when connected to the same phase. As (my) luck
>>> would have it, the most convenient outlet pairs are sometimes not on
>>> the same phase, and so no talkie.
>>>
>>> Do the powerline nics have the same problem?
>>
>> Never ran into multiples phases in a house, did run into a problem
>> on a ship with two generators, and the network didn't feed thru to
>> the other generators power lines.. In that instance, we just used
>> two in the AC plugs for each in the power room (one on each line,
>> and jumped em with a cat 5 cable so they would work as one)..
>> Suppose you could do that in a home/business/etc too with multiple
>> phases (circuits?).. Units are about $50 each, and you can have as
>> many as you want...
Airman Thunderbird wrote:
> Sounds like the network might work for anybody on the same power pole
> transformer, even at different residences. Possible?
>

In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the north
(about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer), and the 6
buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in laws/etc), same to the
south, but only two houses (father and son), were all on the same network (I
had sat internet, no cable or dsl, and shared it with the neighbors..

Can't say it will work for anyone, but it worked fine for me in our
location..

njkat@eclipse.net (gene martinez) hath wroth:

>For the x-10 you can get a capacitor that you put accross the
>different phases.. If you do a search you might find something.

It's more than just a cazapitor. It's a 120KHz tuned ferrite xformer
between phases. The xformer (passive phase coupler) passes the 120KHz
while blocking the 60Hz. About $2 in parts. There are also active
phase couplers, that decode the commons and regenerate (re-transmit)
the commands on the other phases. These are more expensive.

X10 couplers:
| http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lig...hase-Couplers/

X10 power line networking FAQ:
| http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lig...rs/Item/CP000/

They won't work with power line networking devices, which use (and
trash) frequencies between 4 and 20MHz. The higher speed devices use
an even wider bandwidth. It would seem that someone would make a
HomePlug range extender or repeater, but I couldn't find a shipping
product.
| http://www.homeplug.org/en/products/products.asp

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM@akamailnospam.com> wrote:
> In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the north
> (about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer), and the 6
> buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in laws/etc), same to
> the south, but only two houses (father and son), were all on the same
> network (I had sat internet, no cable or dsl, and shared it with the

Your neighbor, 1/2 mile away, is on the same transformer?
That's not the way it's done here.
With 10 acre parcels, everyone is on their own transformer.
My last place had a transformer on my property, 150 feet from the street,
and 500 feet from a neighbor, who had his own transformer at the street.

At my current place, there are no more than two houses per transformer,
with drops about 150 feet long, maybe 200. The houses that are located
toward the back of the lots have high voltage runs to their transformers on
premise.

In "the big city", I recall that half the block, maybe 10 houses, was on a
single transformer.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

dold@XReXXPower.usenet.us.com wrote:
> Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM@akamailnospam.com> wrote:
>> In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the
>> north (about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer), and
>> the 6 buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in
>> laws/etc), same to the south, but only two houses (father and son),
>> were all on the same network (I had sat internet, no cable or dsl,
>> and shared it with the
>
> Your neighbor, 1/2 mile away, is on the same transformer?
> That's not the way it's done here.
> With 10 acre parcels, everyone is on their own transformer.
> My last place had a transformer on my property, 150 feet from the
> street, and 500 feet from a neighbor, who had his own transformer at
> the street.
>
> At my current place, there are no more than two houses per
> transformer, with drops about 150 feet long, maybe 200. The houses
> that are located toward the back of the lots have high voltage runs
> to their transformers on premise.
>
> In "the big city", I recall that half the block, maybe 10 houses, was
> on a single transformer.

Yup.. Remember, it's Northern Idaho, gets about 3-4 FEET of snow per
winter.. Power water phone are underground (no utility poles at all), same
at my dads place in Tampa (hurricane area, everything is underground, cept
he has cable and sanitary sewer).. In Vegas, they had underground power
vaults (no utility poles) in newer subdisions and megacomplexes.. Come to
think of it, my sisters old place was in a subdivision where everything is
underground too (transformers were on poles, one lightning strike and 20 to
30 houses would go dark), but her new place (an older house) has wires on
poles in the back yard.

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:g8vrg2htdbattm70n6s95igrr58uvqaaur@4ax.com...
> njkat@eclipse.net (gene martinez) hath wroth:
>
> >For the x-10 you can get a capacitor that you put accross the
> >different phases.. If you do a search you might find something.
>
> It's more than just a cazapitor. It's a 120KHz tuned ferrite xformer
> between phases. The xformer (passive phase coupler) passes the 120KHz
> while blocking the 60Hz. About $2 in parts. There are also active
> phase couplers, that decode the commons and regenerate (re-transmit)
> the commands on the other phases. These are more expensive.
>
> X10 couplers:
> | http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lig...hase-Couplers/
>
> X10 power line networking FAQ:
> | http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Lig...rs/Item/CP000/
>
> They won't work with power line networking devices, which use (and
> trash) frequencies between 4 and 20MHz. The higher speed devices use
> an even wider bandwidth. It would seem that someone would make a
> HomePlug range extender or repeater, but I couldn't find a shipping
> product.
> | http://www.homeplug.org/en/products/products.asp

dont you just need 2 back to back, with different settings, so they dont
form a bridge loop?

FWIW Homeplug dont seem to deserve the .org domain name since they seem to
wear standard US blinkers
- despite the fact that plugs and main power specs vary around the world,
they dont mention anything about power versions - just seem to assume
everyone lives in the US / Canada

some of the manufacturers seem to be based in Europe - so I'll just have to
skim all the sites.
>

> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
--
Regards

stephen_hope@xyzworld.com - replace xyz with ntl

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in alt.internet.wireless ,
dold@XReXXPower.usenet.us.com wrote:

>Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM@akamailnospam.com> wrote:
>> In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the north
>> (about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer), and the 6
>> buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in laws/etc), same to
>> the south, but only two houses (father and son), were all on the same
>> network (I had sat internet, no cable or dsl, and shared it with the
>
>Your neighbor, 1/2 mile away, is on the same transformer?

The whole of my street, some 50-100 semidetached properties, is on the
same transformer, and most of us are on the same phase.

On the other hand when I was in the wilds of Yorkshire, each house had
its own transformer, and we had all three phases all to ourselves.

--
Mark McIntyre

"Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:446ug25021tfop7s5subiukp8aqidsnkl8@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in alt.internet.wireless ,
> dold@XReXXPower.usenet.us.com wrote:
>
> >Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM@akamailnospam.com> wrote:
> >> In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the north
> >> (about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer), and the 6
> >> buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in laws/etc), same to
> >> the south, but only two houses (father and son), were all on the same
> >> network (I had sat internet, no cable or dsl, and shared it with the
> >
> >Your neighbor, 1/2 mile away, is on the same transformer?
>
> The whole of my street, some 50-100 semidetached properties, is on the
> same transformer, and most of us are on the same phase.

its easier to do this in the UK, since the higher mains voltage (240v vs
110v in the US) means you dont need so much copper for the same power output
and "sag" on the supply...

but here it is supposed to be adjacent houses on different phases -
supposedly to even out the load across the phases.

i guess power cable is cheaper than more transformers?
>
> On the other hand when I was in the wilds of Yorkshire, each house had
> its own transformer, and we had all three phases all to ourselves.
>
> --
> Mark McIntyre
--
Regards

stephen_hope@xyzworld.com - replace xyz with ntl

I wonder if anyone has the answer for my question :
if I use a powerline connection within my house, can I connect plugs which
are on different phase ? my house has a 3-phase distribution
Thanks in advence
Dimitris


? "Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> ?????? ??? ??????
news:446ug25021tfop7s5subiukp8aqidsnkl8@4ax.com...
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in alt.internet.wireless ,
> dold@XReXXPower.usenet.us.com wrote:
>
>>Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM@akamailnospam.com> wrote:
>>> In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the north
>>> (about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer), and the 6
>>> buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in laws/etc), same to
>>> the south, but only two houses (father and son), were all on the same
>>> network (I had sat internet, no cable or dsl, and shared it with the
>>
>>Your neighbor, 1/2 mile away, is on the same transformer?
>
> The whole of my street, some 50-100 semidetached properties, is on the
> same transformer, and most of us are on the same phase.
>
> On the other hand when I was in the wilds of Yorkshire, each house had
> its own transformer, and we had all three phases all to ourselves.
>
> --
> Mark McIntyre

Got me curious when you mentioned that earlier, I'm in Baltimore at the
moment fixing up my sisters new house, and the electrician told me they do
NOT use mutiphase power systems in this area for houses (we are having a sub
panel put in)..

From what I was told (that may or may not apply to you/make sense), Theye
bring 3 wires in off the pole, two hot's and one neutral. The two hots are
called legs, and a hot to neutral is 120V, and hot to hot is 240V (two legs,
no neutral) .. The powerline networking stuff works/multiplexes on the
neutral, so only 120v stuff will work (since they share the neutral), but
not the 240V since there is no neutral... However, it is very rare for any
240 plugs in the house (usually for things like range/oven/dryer/big ac/etc)

There are some commercial places that have two phases (restaurants,
laudries, service station (for the hydraulic hoist etc) etc), and some
humongous mills that use a third phase for things like a 50 ton hydraulic
press, or rollers for 100 ton hot metal slab mover.. Doubtful it would ever
be in a home though...

So I have to wonder, where do you live.. Is it feasible that you have three
wires/two hots/single phase? In that case it will work fine... Maybe they
just call it somnething else in your neck of the woods? No clue (and the
electrician guy had no clue) what a 3 PHASE system could possibly be.....

Dimitris wrote:
> I wonder if anyone has the answer for my question :
> if I use a powerline connection within my house, can I connect plugs
> which are on different phase ? my house has a 3-phase distribution
> Thanks in advence
> Dimitris
>
>
> ? "Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> ?????? ??? ??????
> news:446ug25021tfop7s5subiukp8aqidsnkl8@4ax.com...
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in alt.internet.wireless ,
>> dold@XReXXPower.usenet.us.com wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM@akamailnospam.com> wrote:
>>>> In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the
>>>> north (about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer),
>>>> and the 6 buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in
>>>> laws/etc), same to the south, but only two houses (father and
>>>> son), were all on the same network (I had sat internet, no cable
>>>> or dsl, and shared it with the
>>>
>>> Your neighbor, 1/2 mile away, is on the same transformer?
>>
>> The whole of my street, some 50-100 semidetached properties, is on
>> the same transformer, and most of us are on the same phase.
>>
>> On the other hand when I was in the wilds of Yorkshire, each house
>> had its own transformer, and we had all three phases all to
>> ourselves. --
>> Mark McIntyre

In Europe , the system is 220/240 AC for one phase and 380/420 for 3 phase.
The 3 phase uses 5 wires. One is earth, one is the neutral and the other 3
are in pairs with the neutral and are spread to distribute as evenly
possible the loads within the home central fuse box. This is now a common
practice in Greece, for the last 10-15 years. Older houses( like the flat I
used to live before) have a 25Amp single phase distribution.
What I'm wondering is if the signal from the plug in my office on the ground
floor will be passed to the plug in my bedroom on the first floor, which may
be on a different phase, or it will be limited to plugs that have to be on
the same one.. I suspect it won't be. so I guess I'l have to play within my
fuse box to make sure that the rooms I'm interested in - I will leave the
bathroom out fot the time being !! - are on the same phase
Dimitris

Ï "Peter Pan" <PeterPanNOSPAM@AkamailNOSPAM.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
news:NoWdnWn2Q7IZR4bYnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>
> Got me curious when you mentioned that earlier, I'm in Baltimore at the
> moment fixing up my sisters new house, and the electrician told me they do
> NOT use mutiphase power systems in this area for houses (we are having a
> sub panel put in)..
>
> From what I was told (that may or may not apply to you/make sense), Theye
> bring 3 wires in off the pole, two hot's and one neutral. The two hots are
> called legs, and a hot to neutral is 120V, and hot to hot is 240V (two
> legs, no neutral) .. The powerline networking stuff works/multiplexes on
> the neutral, so only 120v stuff will work (since they share the neutral),
> but not the 240V since there is no neutral... However, it is very rare for
> any 240 plugs in the house (usually for things like range/oven/dryer/big
> ac/etc)
>
> There are some commercial places that have two phases (restaurants,
> laudries, service station (for the hydraulic hoist etc) etc), and some
> humongous mills that use a third phase for things like a 50 ton hydraulic
> press, or rollers for 100 ton hot metal slab mover.. Doubtful it would
> ever be in a home though...
>
> So I have to wonder, where do you live.. Is it feasible that you have
> three wires/two hots/single phase? In that case it will work fine... Maybe
> they just call it somnething else in your neck of the woods? No clue (and
> the electrician guy had no clue) what a 3 PHASE system could possibly
> be.....
>
> Dimitris wrote:
>> I wonder if anyone has the answer for my question :
>> if I use a powerline connection within my house, can I connect plugs
>> which are on different phase ? my house has a 3-phase distribution
>> Thanks in advence
>> Dimitris
>>
>>
>> ? "Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> ?????? ??? ??????
>> news:446ug25021tfop7s5subiukp8aqidsnkl8@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in alt.internet.wireless ,
>>> dold@XReXXPower.usenet.us.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM@akamailnospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the
>>>>> north (about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer),
>>>>> and the 6 buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in
>>>>> laws/etc), same to the south, but only two houses (father and
>>>>> son), were all on the same network (I had sat internet, no cable
>>>>> or dsl, and shared it with the
>>>>
>>>> Your neighbor, 1/2 mile away, is on the same transformer?
>>>
>>> The whole of my street, some 50-100 semidetached properties, is on
>>> the same transformer, and most of us are on the same phase.
>>>
>>> On the other hand when I was in the wilds of Yorkshire, each house
>>> had its own transformer, and we had all three phases all to
>>> ourselves. --
>>> Mark McIntyre
>
>

Yes, that was for US power stuff (thought about that after I wrote it....)
I wonder from what you said, what is the 380/420 part used for? Is that
similar to the 240 in the US that use two hots and no neutral? (only some
special plugs even have use that higher voltage, all the rest are the lower
120 volt....
From what you said, isn't the 220/240 stuff in most rooms, where you can
plug things in? Those wouldn't seem to need the 3 phase stuff...

At any rate, checked into powerline networking on the netgear website (of
course they have a lot of countries listed, but not greece :( )... Here's
the UK one
http://www.netgear.co.uk/wallplugged...it_hdxb101.php and in the specs
for power it says "Works with 3 prong standard 240 volt electrical
outlets"...

Sorry, that's the closest I can get to an answer for you...
But if it does happen to work in your situation, I can definately say I have
them, have used em, love em, and don't get a commission for saying that :)



Dimitris wrote:
> In Europe , the system is 220/240 AC for one phase and 380/420 for 3
> phase. The 3 phase uses 5 wires. One is earth, one is the neutral and
> the other 3 are in pairs with the neutral and are spread to
> distribute as evenly possible the loads within the home central fuse
> box. This is now a common practice in Greece, for the last 10-15
> years. Older houses( like the flat I used to live before) have a
> 25Amp single phase distribution. What I'm wondering is if the signal from
> the plug in my office on the
> ground floor will be passed to the plug in my bedroom on the first
> floor, which may be on a different phase, or it will be limited to
> plugs that have to be on the same one.. I suspect it won't be. so I
> guess I'l have to play within my fuse box to make sure that the rooms
> I'm interested in - I will leave the bathroom out fot the time being
> !! - are on the same phase Dimitris
>
> Ï "Peter Pan" <PeterPanNOSPAM@AkamailNOSPAM.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
> news:NoWdnWn2Q7IZR4bYnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>
>> Got me curious when you mentioned that earlier, I'm in Baltimore at
>> the moment fixing up my sisters new house, and the electrician told
>> me they do NOT use mutiphase power systems in this area for houses
>> (we are having a sub panel put in)..
>>
>> From what I was told (that may or may not apply to you/make sense),
>> Theye bring 3 wires in off the pole, two hot's and one neutral. The
>> two hots are called legs, and a hot to neutral is 120V, and hot to
>> hot is 240V (two legs, no neutral) .. The powerline networking stuff
>> works/multiplexes on the neutral, so only 120v stuff will work
>> (since they share the neutral), but not the 240V since there is no
>> neutral... However, it is very rare for any 240 plugs in the house
>> (usually for things like range/oven/dryer/big ac/etc)
>>
>> There are some commercial places that have two phases (restaurants,
>> laudries, service station (for the hydraulic hoist etc) etc), and
>> some humongous mills that use a third phase for things like a 50 ton
>> hydraulic press, or rollers for 100 ton hot metal slab mover..
>> Doubtful it would ever be in a home though...
>>
>> So I have to wonder, where do you live.. Is it feasible that you have
>> three wires/two hots/single phase? In that case it will work fine...
>> Maybe they just call it somnething else in your neck of the woods? No
>> clue (and the electrician guy had no clue) what a 3 PHASE system
>> could possibly be.....
>>
>> Dimitris wrote:
>>> I wonder if anyone has the answer for my question :
>>> if I use a powerline connection within my house, can I connect plugs
>>> which are on different phase ? my house has a 3-phase distribution
>>> Thanks in advence
>>> Dimitris
>>>
>>>
>>> ? "Mark McIntyre" <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> ?????? ??? ??????
>>> news:446ug25021tfop7s5subiukp8aqidsnkl8@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:43:50 +0000 (UTC), in alt.internet.wireless
>>>> , dold@XReXXPower.usenet.us.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Pan <PeterPanNOSPAM@akamailnospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In my location (Rural area, 10 acre parcels), my neighbor to the
>>>>>> north (about 1/2 mile away, but on the same power transformer),
>>>>>> and the 6 buildings on his property (various sons/daughters/in
>>>>>> laws/etc), same to the south, but only two houses (father and
>>>>>> son), were all on the same network (I had sat internet, no cable
>>>>>> or dsl, and shared it with the
>>>>>
>>>>> Your neighbor, 1/2 mile away, is on the same transformer?
>>>>
>>>> The whole of my street, some 50-100 semidetached properties, is on
>>>> the same transformer, and most of us are on the same phase.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand when I was in the wilds of Yorkshire, each house
>>>> had its own transformer, and we had all three phases all to
>>>> ourselves. --
>>>> Mark McIntyre

thanks for the link. I've done a bit of research myself and came across this
page http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/N100973.asp
where is says : "In many cases, the technology works across multiple phases
and circuit breakers."
I wonder what the cases are. I'll send them an email to get more info..
Anyway, thanks for your effort.
Just to conclude this discussion, the system used in my home is that the 3
phases are distributed in the home electrical fusebox, so that each phase
(220V) has more or less equal loads with the others. My home outlets are all
220V with 3 wires( 1 hot, 1 neutral and 1earth with usual
brown-blue -yellow color coding) I do not use any 3 phase aplliance, so I
do not need 380V at all. If I did, I wound have to use all 5 wires to get
the 380V. I have seen some electrical ovens that give the option of wiring
220 single phase or 380 3 phase.
So my living room outlets may be fed from a different phase than my bedroom
outlets , both supplying 220VAC
Greetings
Dimitris


Ï "Peter Pan" <PeterPanNOSPAM@AkamailNOSPAM.com> Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
news:47adnSLIS-7F_oDYnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> Yes, that was for US power stuff (thought about that after I wrote it....)
> I wonder from what you said, what is the 380/420 part used for? Is that
> similar to the 240 in the US that use two hots and no neutral? (only some
> special plugs even have use that higher voltage, all the rest are the
> lower 120 volt....
> From what you said, isn't the 220/240 stuff in most rooms, where you can
> plug things in? Those wouldn't seem to need the 3 phase stuff...
>
> At any rate, checked into powerline networking on the netgear website (of
> course they have a lot of countries listed, but not greece :( )... Here's
> the UK one
> http://www.netgear.co.uk/wallplugged...it_hdxb101.php and in the
> specs for power it says "Works with 3 prong standard 240 volt electrical
> outlets"...
>
> Sorry, that's the closest I can get to an answer for you...
> But if it does happen to work in your situation, I can definately say I
> have them, have used em, love em, and don't get a commission for saying
> that :)