Problems connecting router and router-as-access point

Hello all,

I'm new to wireless networking, but have experience with wired
networks. Just got a cable modem. I only have cable in the living
room. My wired network is in the bedroom. I want to wirelessly enable
my wired network to the internet.

I purchased 2 DLINK DI-524 (rev. a) routers. Connected router A to the
cable modem and hooked a laptop up to it and configured it. It is the
DHCP server. Seems to be working fine. Set up the wireless portion
with a new SSID and channel.

Connected router B to my existing wired lan using an open lan port.
Configured it to use the same SSID and channel as router a. Disabled
DHCP per DLINK's knowledge base article (although they STRONGLY
suggested not to try to do this then told you how to do it). Router B
can ping all the pc's on my network. It cannot ping router A, nor can
router A ping router B.

Only router A and any computer attached to router A have internet
access. I have also tried bypassing my wired router and connecting my
pc's directly to the wireless router b and the same problem persists.
It appears that both routers are configured properly, but neither can
talk to the other apparently.

Is what I am trying to accomplish possible?

Thank you for your help in advance,

Buck

buck.turgidson@gmail.com wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>I'm new to wireless networking, but have experience with wired
>networks. Just got a cable modem. I only have cable in the living
>room. My wired network is in the bedroom. I want to wirelessly enable
>my wired network to the internet.
>
>I purchased 2 DLINK DI-524 (rev. a) routers. Connected router A to the
>cable modem and hooked a laptop up to it and configured it. It is the
>DHCP server. Seems to be working fine. Set up the wireless portion
>with a new SSID and channel.

Try a different channel, same SSID

>Connected router B to my existing wired lan using an open lan port.
>Configured it to use the same SSID and channel as router a. Disabled
>DHCP per DLINK's knowledge base article (although they STRONGLY
>suggested not to try to do this then told you how to do it). Router B
>can ping all the pc's on my network. It cannot ping router A, nor can
>router A ping router B.
>
>Only router A and any computer attached to router A have internet
>access. I have also tried bypassing my wired router and connecting my
>pc's directly to the wireless router b and the same problem persists.
>It appears that both routers are configured properly, but neither can
>talk to the other apparently.
>
>Is what I am trying to accomplish possible?
>
>Thank you for your help in advance,
>
>Buck
>

On 29 Oct 2005 23:07:46 -0700, buck.turgidson@gmail.com wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>I'm new to wireless networking, but have experience with wired
>networks. Just got a cable modem. I only have cable in the living
>room. My wired network is in the bedroom. I want to wirelessly enable
>my wired network to the internet.
>
>I purchased 2 DLINK DI-524 (rev. a) routers. Connected router A to the
>cable modem and hooked a laptop up to it and configured it. It is the
>DHCP server. Seems to be working fine. Set up the wireless portion
>with a new SSID and channel.
>
>Connected router B to my existing wired lan using an open lan port.
>Configured it to use the same SSID and channel as router a. Disabled
>DHCP per DLINK's knowledge base article (although they STRONGLY
>suggested not to try to do this then told you how to do it). Router B
>can ping all the pc's on my network. It cannot ping router A, nor can
>router A ping router B.
>
>Only router A and any computer attached to router A have internet
>access. I have also tried bypassing my wired router and connecting my
>pc's directly to the wireless router b and the same problem persists.
>It appears that both routers are configured properly, but neither can
>talk to the other apparently.
>
>Is what I am trying to accomplish possible?

No. It's not possible with DI-524 routers.

What you're apparently trying to do is get two wireless routers to act
as a wireless bridge. There are devices and protocols that will do
this, but the DI-524 is not equiped to do either. Reading between the
lines, what you're trying to accomplish is build an extension cord for
your cable modem to your LAN. The best approach for this would be to
run a CAT5 cable, but it can be done with wireless.

Methinks the best approach would be to package everything back in its
box and upgrade to a pair of Dlink DI-624, Linksys WRT54G, or other
routers that support WDS (wireless distribution service). This allows
the wireless router to simultaneously act as an infrastructure access
point and a wireless transparent bridge.

WDS setup instructions:
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sectio...le78-page1.php
http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.p...showpage&pid=7

Note that there are other ways to do this other than using WDS. For
example, you could use the DI-524 as a wireless router, and connect
your LAN to it using an ethernet client adapter that supports multiple
clients. WRT54G with alternative firmware will do this. However, be
careful here as many client adapters will only bridge one MAC address
and cannot bridge your entire LAN.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff, thank you very much for your reply. I took the Dlink routers
back and got 2 new LinkSys WRT54G routers. Hooked them up, went into
the configuration so I could set them up just like the great article at
"http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7"
says to do, but the configuration pages don't have the WDS settings
that are shown in the article and nothing close to it can I find
anywhere. I am using WRT54G version 5 routers.

I guess I'm is off to Linksys support to see what they have to say.
Thanks for pointing me in what looks like the right direction though!

Cheers,
Buck

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On 29 Oct 2005 23:07:46 -0700, buck.turgidson@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I'm new to wireless networking, but have experience with wired
> >networks. Just got a cable modem. I only have cable in the living
> >room. My wired network is in the bedroom. I want to wirelessly enable
> >my wired network to the internet.
> >
> >I purchased 2 DLINK DI-524 (rev. a) routers. Connected router A to the
> >cable modem and hooked a laptop up to it and configured it. It is the
> >DHCP server. Seems to be working fine. Set up the wireless portion
> >with a new SSID and channel.
> >
> >Connected router B to my existing wired lan using an open lan port.
> >Configured it to use the same SSID and channel as router a. Disabled
> >DHCP per DLINK's knowledge base article (although they STRONGLY
> >suggested not to try to do this then told you how to do it). Router B
> >can ping all the pc's on my network. It cannot ping router A, nor can
> >router A ping router B.
> >
> >Only router A and any computer attached to router A have internet
> >access. I have also tried bypassing my wired router and connecting my
> >pc's directly to the wireless router b and the same problem persists.
> >It appears that both routers are configured properly, but neither can
> >talk to the other apparently.
> >
> >Is what I am trying to accomplish possible?
>
> No. It's not possible with DI-524 routers.
>
> What you're apparently trying to do is get two wireless routers to act
> as a wireless bridge. There are devices and protocols that will do
> this, but the DI-524 is not equiped to do either. Reading between the
> lines, what you're trying to accomplish is build an extension cord for
> your cable modem to your LAN. The best approach for this would be to
> run a CAT5 cable, but it can be done with wireless.
>
> Methinks the best approach would be to package everything back in its
> box and upgrade to a pair of Dlink DI-624, Linksys WRT54G, or other
> routers that support WDS (wireless distribution service). This allows
> the wireless router to simultaneously act as an infrastructure access
> point and a wireless transparent bridge.
>
> WDS setup instructions:
> http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sectio...le78-page1.php
> http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.p...showpage&pid=7
>
> Note that there are other ways to do this other than using WDS. For
> example, you could use the DI-524 as a wireless router, and connect
> your LAN to it using an ethernet client adapter that supports multiple
> clients. WRT54G with alternative firmware will do this. However, be
> careful here as many client adapters will only bridge one MAC address
> and cannot bridge your entire LAN.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

buck.turgidson@gmail.com wrote:

> Jeff, thank you very much for your reply. I took the Dlink routers
> back and got 2 new LinkSys WRT54G routers. Hooked them up, went into
> the configuration so I could set them up just like the great article at
> "http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7"
> says to do, but the configuration pages don't have the WDS settings
> that are shown in the article and nothing close to it can I find
> anywhere. I am using WRT54G version 5 routers.

I didn't think Linksys supported WDS - only third party firmware like
sveasoft (which is what that article describes) - and I've heard that
version 4+ routers don't support third party firmware (I have no idea if
that's true - mine are v3!
--
derek

On 1 Nov 2005 23:15:40 -0800, buck.turgidson@gmail.com wrote:

>Jeff, thank you very much for your reply. I took the Dlink routers
>back and got 2 new LinkSys WRT54G routers. Hooked them up, went into
>the configuration so I could set them up just like the great article at
>"http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7"
>says to do, but the configuration pages don't have the WDS settings
>that are shown in the article and nothing close to it can I find
>anywhere. I am using WRT54G version 5 routers.
>
>I guess I'm is off to Linksys support to see what they have to say.
>Thanks for pointing me in what looks like the right direction though!

Take them back and try again. The Linksys WRT54G routers support WDS
only with alternative firmware from Sveasoft and DD-WRT. However, the
V5 hardware is an oddity as it is VXWorks based firmware and NOT Linux
based. At this time, there is no alternative firmware available for
the V5 hardware. For example:
| http://wrt-wiki.bsr-clan.de/index.ph...ct_Description
proclaims:
"DD-WRT supports all versions of the WRT54G and WRT54GS hardware
except for the WRT54G v5. This new router has limited ram (2/8)
and runs on VxWorks and not Linux."
V4 hardware is also a problem as only a specific version of DD-WRT
runs on it. Grap the list of serial number to hardware versions and
check the box.

Also, if you happen to call Linksys for something, be sure to thank
them for killing the golden goose and possibly shooting themselves in
the foot to save a few pennies.

If you're going to do WDS, I suggest you find an earlier version of
the WRT54G or use a router with native WDS support such as the DI-624
C1. I'm not sure I would actually recommend the DI-624 as I now have
2 that have mysteriously died at customers in about the last 6 months
and DLink is playing games with the warranty returns.

Also, it might be possible to do this without WDS if you can find just
one WRT54G that can handle alternative firmware. Both Sveasoft and
DD-WRT offer a "client mode" that can handle multiple clients (i.e.
bridge multiple MAC addresses). You would use literally any wireless
router at the cable modem end and connect to it with the WRT54G. Then,
plug your LAN in and it should work. The problem is that unlike WDS,
this method does NOT extend your wireless range into the area around
the client adapter. If you have a wireless laptop, it will need to
connect to the wireless router at the cable modem end.

I tried to find a list of wireless routers that support WDS, but
couldn't. If you do find such a list, be advised that different
chipsets have problems talking to each other with WDS. Try to keep it
all one chipset.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Yes I can see that v5 will not work. I'll have to dig around to try
and find earlier versions. I don't think Best Buy/Circuit City/CompUsa
tend to carry older versions of equipment but hopefully I am wrong. I
just thought that my situation, wanting to extend cable modem reach in
an apartment where you don't have the ability to drill wires through
walls, would have been figured out by now and be a basic feature of
wireless networking. I apparently underestimated the evolution of the
technology and/or the greed of hardware companies.

Thanks, all, for your responses. If and when I am able to get this
working, I'll post the results. (I may just be better off returning
the one router and purchasing 3 wireless adapters!)

Cheers,
Buck Turgidson

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On 1 Nov 2005 23:15:40 -0800, buck.turgidson@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >Jeff, thank you very much for your reply. I took the Dlink routers
> >back and got 2 new LinkSys WRT54G routers. Hooked them up, went into
> >the configuration so I could set them up just like the great article at
> >"http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7"
> >says to do, but the configuration pages don't have the WDS settings
> >that are shown in the article and nothing close to it can I find
> >anywhere. I am using WRT54G version 5 routers.
> >
> >I guess I'm is off to Linksys support to see what they have to say.
> >Thanks for pointing me in what looks like the right direction though!
>
> Take them back and try again. The Linksys WRT54G routers support WDS
> only with alternative firmware from Sveasoft and DD-WRT. However, the
> V5 hardware is an oddity as it is VXWorks based firmware and NOT Linux
> based. At this time, there is no alternative firmware available for
> the V5 hardware. For example:
> | http://wrt-wiki.bsr-clan.de/index.ph...ct_Description
> proclaims:
> "DD-WRT supports all versions of the WRT54G and WRT54GS hardware
> except for the WRT54G v5. This new router has limited ram (2/8)
> and runs on VxWorks and not Linux."
> V4 hardware is also a problem as only a specific version of DD-WRT
> runs on it. Grap the list of serial number to hardware versions and
> check the box.
>
> Also, if you happen to call Linksys for something, be sure to thank
> them for killing the golden goose and possibly shooting themselves in
> the foot to save a few pennies.
>
> If you're going to do WDS, I suggest you find an earlier version of
> the WRT54G or use a router with native WDS support such as the DI-624
> C1. I'm not sure I would actually recommend the DI-624 as I now have
> 2 that have mysteriously died at customers in about the last 6 months
> and DLink is playing games with the warranty returns.
>
> Also, it might be possible to do this without WDS if you can find just
> one WRT54G that can handle alternative firmware. Both Sveasoft and
> DD-WRT offer a "client mode" that can handle multiple clients (i.e.
> bridge multiple MAC addresses). You would use literally any wireless
> router at the cable modem end and connect to it with the WRT54G. Then,
> plug your LAN in and it should work. The problem is that unlike WDS,
> this method does NOT extend your wireless range into the area around
> the client adapter. If you have a wireless laptop, it will need to
> connect to the wireless router at the cable modem end.
>
> I tried to find a list of wireless routers that support WDS, but
> couldn't. If you do find such a list, be advised that different
> chipsets have problems talking to each other with WDS. Try to keep it
> all one chipset.
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558