The time: the future within 3-5 years...
The place: the USA under a Zionist/Communist/Fascist state...
The situation: America has fallen. The Internet is dead, Internet2 is
up.
If there is one thing I've learned: a lack of
communication/information can KILL you.
Disclaimer: Techniqually speaking war driving/stealing bandwidth is
illeagal, but honestly, when the darkness comes, breaking the law will
be the LEAST of my worries.
I got a Dell X200 (800Mhz, 640MB, 40GB, running Windows 2000) cheap..
I added a ORiNOCO 8470-WD 801.11b/g card. NetStumbler works fine. I
was trying to use something like AirSnort. Never could get it to work.
But no matter what I tried, I had to uninstall the ORiNOCO utilities.
Ok, so I could break the encryption... then what??? Would I have to
reinstall the ORiNOCO software to do the actual connection???
Questions: I want to stay within Win2000. I don't care for Linux
(can't find anyone smart enough to help me with Linux). I'm too cheap
to buy XP. Is there anyway for me to do this??? What software would
allow me to hack WEP/WPA encryption within Win2000??? Is there anyway
to run the ORiNOCO 8470-WD without the ORiNOCO software??? I know XP
has wifi built in, but is there anyway to add this to Win2000???
RangerScott wrote:
> The time: the future within 3-5 years...
> The place: the USA under a Zionist/Communist/Fascist state...
> The situation: America has fallen. The Internet is dead, Internet2 is
> up.
this sounds like a sci fi short story. "20 seconds into the future" or
something like that. MmmmmmAx .... Head..room.
> I got a Dell X200 (800Mhz, 640MB, 40GB, running Windows 2000) cheap..
> I added a ORiNOCO 8470-WD 801.11b/g card. NetStumbler works fine. I
> was trying to use something like AirSnort. Never could get it to work.
some chip sets won't work with tools like this under Windows.
Airlink101 with an Atheros radio normally supports promiscuous modes
needed for packet captures and works *EXTREMELY* well in FreeBSD.
> But no matter what I tried, I had to uninstall the ORiNOCO utilities.
yeah, 3rd party "network for you" stuff on windows typically sucks worse
than the "let windows manage my connection" built-in (which
interestingly enough works moderately well in XP, not sure about 2k).
The most appalling one so far is the Linksys "helper" app that you HAVE
to use if you want speedboost. Maybe it's ok if you only ever connect
to ONE network but how many people with laptops don't connect to SEVERAL
of them ALL of the time?
> Questions: I want to stay within Win2000.
why?
> I don't care for Linux (can't find anyone smart enough to help me
> with Linux).
maybe you need to evolve from larval stage and learn something about
FreeBSD - it's *MUCH* better than Linux at WiFi. I'm using a FreeBSD
box as a wifi access point at the moment (and getting >25Mbits of REAL
throughput). FBSD's atheros driver kicks some serious ass. And my
laptop has FBSD on it also (I use it for $work all the time - FBSD and
open source tools run circles around equivalent windows tools for
networking and wifi stuff).
> I'm too cheap to buy XP.
understandable. FreeBSD is FREE, though. You could always dual boot it
if you have an extra partition to format as UFS.
>The time: the future within 3-5 years...
>The place: the USA under a Zionist/Communist/Fascist state...
Ahem. I'm Jewish and somewhat of a Zionist. Is there a problem?
>The situation: America has fallen. The Internet is dead, Internet2 is
>up.
Not a problem. I'm sure you'll just love being under Arab domination.
>If there is one thing I've learned: a lack of
>communication/information can KILL you.
Yep. Data is usually free, but you have to work for information. I
kinda prefer to get data and grind out my own "information". When I
deal with the medical profession, the lack of accurate information can
really get me killed.
>Disclaimer: Techniqually speaking war driving/stealing bandwidth is
>illeagal, but honestly, when the darkness comes, breaking the law will
>be the LEAST of my worries.
Right. The end of civilization, as you apparently enjoy it, is
coming. Everything you do or think will be a crime. Law enforcement
will be randomized. Your money will be worthless. The US will
balkanize into hundreds of fortified city states. Those not part of a
gang will become chronic victims.
Just one problem... I've heard it all before. In the 40's it was the
totalitarian dictators that were going to drag us back to barbarism.
In the 50's it was the Red Scare. In the early 60's, it was mutually
assured destruction and the atomic bomb. In the late 60's and early
70's, it was ecological disaster and resource exhaustion. In the late
70's and early 80's, it was inflation and global financial meltdown.
In the 90's, it was Y2K. These days, it's global warming and illegal
immigrants. Take a number and wait your turn for doomsday.
>I got a Dell X200 (800Mhz, 640MB, 40GB, running Windows 2000) cheap..
Nice.
>I added a ORiNOCO 8470-WD 801.11b/g card. NetStumbler works fine. I
>was trying to use something like AirSnort. Never could get it to work.
Any particular Windoze application? Wepcrack perhaps? AirSnort is
currently for Linux only.
> But no matter what I tried, I had to uninstall the ORiNOCO utilities.
Yep. For Orinoco, Netstubler 0.4 talks directly to the card. The
driver gets in the way. Netstumbler does a nice job of disarming the
NDIS drivers (and disarming XP Wireless Zero Config service), but
other applications aren't so graceful. I think (not sure) you can
just stop the Proxim/Orinoco config program sitting in the system tray
or stop whatever service it's running, and get the same effect without
uninstallation. I don't have an easy way to test it here.
>Ok, so I could break the encryption... then what??? Would I have to
>reinstall the ORiNOCO software to do the actual connection???
Try disabling the driver and/or services and see if that helps.
>Questions: I want to stay within Win2000. I don't care for Linux
>(can't find anyone smart enough to help me with Linux).
I'm smart, Jewish, and helpful. What you want is a Linux "LiveCD"
that you boot on your Dell x200. See: http://www.remote-exploit.org/index.php/BackTrack
BackTrack (and Security Auditor) have all the tools you ever wanted to
attack a wireless access point.
>I'm too cheap to buy XP.
You don't need XP. W2K is good enough. It's not as artistic as XP
and doesn't have any of the recovery tools, but it's fairly close to
being identical to XP.
>Is there anyway for me to do this??? What software would
>allow me to hack WEP/WPA encryption within Win2000???
>Is there anyway
>to run the ORiNOCO 8470-WD without the ORiNOCO software??? I know XP
>has wifi built in, but is there anyway to add this to Win2000???
XP has Wireless Zero Config built in, plus its collection of drivers.
That will certainly simplify installations, but is not a guarantee
that your card will work. The problem is that some programs want to
talk directly to the card and not the driver. The programs ability to
start and stop the driver is your problem. You'll have the same
problem with XP.
>Thanks in advance,
>GOD HELP US ALL.
God helps those that help themselves. Learn a little about what
you're dealing with (wireless, Linux, politics) and you won't need a
god to bail you out.
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:43:48 -0700, RangerScott wrote:
> The time: the future within 3-5 years...
> The place: the USA under a Zionist/Communist/Fascist state...
> The situation: America has fallen. The Internet is dead, Internet2 is
> up.
>
> If there is one thing I've learned: a lack of
> communication/information can KILL you.
>
> Disclaimer: Techniqually speaking war driving
No, war driving is not illegal. AFAIK, there's no law against looking for
open WiFi ports. There may be some grey area when it comes to USING said
ports, but just locating them is not a crime.
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:26:21 GMT, Big Bad Bob
<BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> wrote:
>RangerScott wrote:
>> The time: the future within 3-5 years...
>> The place: the USA under a Zionist/Communist/Fascist state...
>> The situation: America has fallen. The Internet is dead, Internet2 is
>> up.
>
>this sounds like a sci fi short story. "20 seconds into the future" or
>something like that. MmmmmmAx .... Head..room.
>
>> I got a Dell X200 (800Mhz, 640MB, 40GB, running Windows 2000) cheap..
>> I added a ORiNOCO 8470-WD 801.11b/g card. NetStumbler works fine. I
>> was trying to use something like AirSnort. Never could get it to work.
>
>some chip sets won't work with tools like this under Windows.
>Airlink101 with an Atheros radio normally supports promiscuous modes
>needed for packet captures and works *EXTREMELY* well in FreeBSD.
>
>> But no matter what I tried, I had to uninstall the ORiNOCO utilities.
>
>yeah, 3rd party "network for you" stuff on windows typically sucks worse
>than the "let windows manage my connection" built-in (which
>interestingly enough works moderately well in XP, not sure about 2k).
>The most appalling one so far is the Linksys "helper" app that you HAVE
>to use if you want speedboost. Maybe it's ok if you only ever connect
>to ONE network but how many people with laptops don't connect to SEVERAL
>of them ALL of the time?
>
>> Questions: I want to stay within Win2000.
>
>why?
>
>> I don't care for Linux (can't find anyone smart enough to help me
>> with Linux).
>
>maybe you need to evolve from larval stage and learn something about
>FreeBSD - it's *MUCH* better than Linux at WiFi. I'm using a FreeBSD
>box as a wifi access point at the moment (and getting >25Mbits of REAL
>throughput). FBSD's atheros driver kicks some serious ass. And my
>laptop has FBSD on it also (I use it for $work all the time - FBSD and
>open source tools run circles around equivalent windows tools for
>networking and wifi stuff).
>
>> I'm too cheap to buy XP.
>
>understandable. FreeBSD is FREE, though. You could always dual boot it
>if you have an extra partition to format as UFS.
Yeah and now that Linux *finally* supports Flash 9 it isn't
~completely~ worthless as a desktop environment!
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:53:17 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>"RangerScott" <rangerswh@yahoo.com> hath wroth:
>
>>The time: the future within 3-5 years...
>>The place: the USA under a Zionist/Communist/Fascist state...
>
>Ahem. I'm Jewish and somewhat of a Zionist. Is there a problem?
>
>>The situation: America has fallen. The Internet is dead, Internet2 is
>>up.
>
>Not a problem. I'm sure you'll just love being under Arab domination.
>
>>If there is one thing I've learned: a lack of
>>communication/information can KILL you.
>
>Yep. Data is usually free, but you have to work for information. I
>kinda prefer to get data and grind out my own "information". When I
>deal with the medical profession, the lack of accurate information can
>really get me killed.
>
>>Disclaimer: Techniqually speaking war driving/stealing bandwidth is
>>illeagal, but honestly, when the darkness comes, breaking the law will
>>be the LEAST of my worries.
>
>Right. The end of civilization, as you apparently enjoy it, is
>coming. Everything you do or think will be a crime. Law enforcement
>will be randomized. Your money will be worthless. The US will
>balkanize into hundreds of fortified city states. Those not part of a
>gang will become chronic victims.
>
>Just one problem... I've heard it all before. In the 40's it was the
>totalitarian dictators that were going to drag us back to barbarism.
>In the 50's it was the Red Scare. In the early 60's, it was mutually
>assured destruction and the atomic bomb. In the late 60's and early
>70's, it was ecological disaster and resource exhaustion. In the late
>70's and early 80's, it was inflation and global financial meltdown.
>In the 90's, it was Y2K. These days, it's global warming and illegal
>immigrants. Take a number and wait your turn for doomsday.
Eeegggxactly. "The darkness" should be the least of his worries... he
should be worrying about how to pay that shrink that he so desperately
needs. ;-)
>No, war driving is not illegal. AFAIK, there's no law against looking for
>open WiFi ports. There may be some grey area when it comes to USING said
>ports, but just locating them is not a crime.
Instant lawyer, just add Google.
Some laws refer to "accessing" instead of "using" which I believe
covers any form of connection including port scanning.
In Florida, accessing someone else's network without permission is a
"third degree felony".
| http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/ind...06.HTM&Title=-
There are other states with similar laws. The term "accessing"
apparently includes probing, password cracking, door rattling, and
scripted exploits. I'm not sure about sniffing. Probably not.
The Florida law has a 10 level felony scoring system:
| http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...29_rtf&invol=1
Third Degree Felony is punishable by a term of imprisonment
not to exceed 5 years and a fine not to exceed $5,000.00.
Court and attorney fees not included.
I wonder how one would prove they have the owners permission. In the
courts, documentation is everything. I should start issueing wireless
access licenses for my neighborhood wireless network.
Realistically, no district attorney is going to waste the tax dollars
it would take to prosecute someone for wireless port scanning,
especially when the typical jury would find it difficult to understand
the nature of the "crime", and a conviction would be a crap shoot.
[Disclaimer: Techniqually speaking war driving/stealing bandwidth is
illeagal, but honestly, when the darkness comes, breaking the law will
be the LEAST of my worries.]
> >No, war driving is not illegal. AFAIK, there's no law against looking for
> >open WiFi ports. There may be some grey area when it comes to USING said
> >ports, but just locating them is not a crime.
>
> Instant lawyer, just add Google.
>
> Some laws refer to "accessing" instead of "using" which I believe
> covers any form of connection including port scanning.
> Eeegggxactly. "The darkness" should be the least of his worries... he
> should be worrying about how to pay that shrink that he so desperately
> needs. ;-)
I got a pretty good feeling you don't have to be too concerned about the
"Ranger-guy". He'll be one of the first to go, when the darkness descends.
>You should note that this refers to using someone else's COMPUTER.
I presume that you're debating the definition of computer and
suggesting that a router is not a computer? I don't think so.
All laws have a definition of terms section. I couldn't find it in
the Virginia law, but the Florida version is clear enough:
| http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/ind...n%2003#0815.03
(1) "Access" means to approach, instruct, communicate with, store
data in, retrieve data from, or otherwise make use of any resources
of a computer, computer system, or computer network.
(2) "Computer" means an internally programmed, automatic device
that performs data processing.
Well, my router is certainly a programmed device. It's quite
automatic. It does process what data I feed it. Note the word
"network" in the "access" definition. That implies that it's not
necessary to attack a computer, just enter the network.
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> PerfectReign <theperfectreign@yahoo.com> hath wroth:
>
>> No, war driving is not illegal. AFAIK, there's no law against looking for
>> open WiFi ports. There may be some grey area when it comes to USING said
>> ports, but just locating them is not a crime.
>
> Instant lawyer, just add Google.
>
> Some laws refer to "accessing" instead of "using" which I believe
> covers any form of connection including port scanning.
>
> In Florida, accessing someone else's network without permission is a
> "third degree felony".
> | http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/ind...06.HTM&Title=-
> There are other states with similar laws. The term "accessing"
> apparently includes probing, password cracking, door rattling, and
> scripted exploits. I'm not sure about sniffing. Probably not.
>
> The Florida law has a 10 level felony scoring system:
> | http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...29_rtf&invol=1
> Third Degree Felony is punishable by a term of imprisonment
> not to exceed 5 years and a fine not to exceed $5,000.00.
> Court and attorney fees not included.
>
> The OP is in Virginia. Yep, Virginia has such a law.
> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.html
> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.full
> See section on:
> s 18.2-152.4. COMPUTER trespass.
> A person is "without authority" when he has no right or
> permission of the owner to use a COMPUTER, or, he uses a
> COMPUTER in a manner exceeding such right or permission.
>
> I wonder how one would prove they have the owners permission. In the
> courts, documentation is everything. I should start issueing wireless
> access licenses for my neighborhood wireless network.
>
> Realistically, no district attorney is going to waste the tax dollars
> it would take to prosecute someone for wireless port scanning,
> especially when the typical jury would find it difficult to understand
> the nature of the "crime", and a conviction would be a crap shoot.
>
Nothing in those links has anything to do with wardriving. In fact,
wireless access points actively advertise their availability so you
could turn the tables and say that the owner of the access point is
trying to hack the wardriver by accessing their wireless card. I think
the confusion here is in the definition of wardriving. Not in it's legality.
--
Whoever thought that bioengineered food would lead to smart puke?
-Groundskeeper Willy
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> hlexa@hotmail.com (Axel Hammerschmidt) hath wroth:
>
> >> The OP is in Virginia. Yep, Virginia has such a law.
> >> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.html
> >> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.full
> >> See section on:
> >> s 18.2-152.4. COMPUTER trespass.
> >> A person is "without authority" when he has no right or
> >> permission of the owner to use a COMPUTER, or, he uses a
> >> COMPUTER in a manner exceeding such right or permission.
>
> >You should note that this refers to using someone else's COMPUTER.
>
> I presume that you're debating the definition of computer and
> suggesting that a router is not a computer? I don't think so.
>
> All laws have a definition of terms section. I couldn't find it in
> the Virginia law, [...]
Why not jus read your own link (the first one? And then take a look at
what it says immediately after about what constitutes computer trespass,
while you're at it.
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>
>> hlexa@hotmail.com (Axel Hammerschmidt) hath wroth:
>>
>> >> The OP is in Virginia. Yep, Virginia has such a law.
>> >> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.html
>> >> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.full
>> >> See section on:
>> >> s 18.2-152.4. COMPUTER trespass.
>> >> A person is "without authority" when he has no right or
>> >> permission of the owner to use a COMPUTER, or, he uses a
>> >> COMPUTER in a manner exceeding such right or permission.
>>
>> >You should note that this refers to using someone else's COMPUTER.
>>
>> I presume that you're debating the definition of computer and
>> suggesting that a router is not a computer? I don't think so.
>>
>> All laws have a definition of terms section. I couldn't find it in
>> the Virginia law, [...]
>Why not jus read your own link (the first one? And then take a look at
>what it says immediately after about what constitutes computer trespass,
>while you're at it.
I did and found nothing wrong. Why don't you kindly explain what
you're talking about including the section of the Florida or Virginia
law that you find offensive?
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>Nothing in those links has anything to do with wardriving. In fact,
>wireless access points actively advertise their availability so you
>could turn the tables and say that the owner of the access point is
>trying to hack the wardriver by accessing their wireless card. I think
>the confusion here is in the definition of wardriving. Not in it's legality.
True. Wardriving was not invented when these laws were written. It's
also questionable whether active probeing constitutes an attack. For
homework, try a two sentence definition of wardriving suitable for
attaching to a state law definition of terms.
Methinks the question is what test would the courts apply to
wardriving to determine if constitutes a form of computer breaking and
entry. For example, walking throught a building and checking if all
the doors are locked does not constitute burglary. Yet, a jury could
be convinced that door rattling constitutes the obligatory preliminary
step before the burglary. The same *MIGHT* be said of wardriving if
one lumps wardriving, port scanning, WEP cracking, passive sniffing,
scripted attacks, Bluejacking, and DoS attacks, into the general
classification of door rattling. It's a fine distinction, but until
there are a few court decisions that establish precidents, rules of
evidence, and proceedures, it's anyone's guess if wardriving
constitutes a crime. A clueless judge could easily assume, like the
DMCA, that *ANY* tool that facilitates illegal access is in itself
illegal. It's not right, but it's very expedient.
As to whether a wireless network is open or closed, there are no
defacto methods of indicating either. If your SSID is "Free Internet"
or something equally obvious, but what about all the wireless routers
that are setup with the default "linksys" as the SSID and no
encryption?
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> hlexa@hotmail.com (Axel Hammerschmidt) hath wroth:
>
> >Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> >
> >> hlexa@hotmail.com (Axel Hammerschmidt) hath wroth:
> >>
> >> >> The OP is in Virginia. Yep, Virginia has such a law.
> >> >> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.html
> >> >> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.full
> >> >> See section on:
> >> >> s 18.2-152.4. COMPUTER trespass.
> >> >> A person is "without authority" when he has no right or
> >> >> permission of the owner to use a COMPUTER, or, he uses a
> >> >> COMPUTER in a manner exceeding such right or permission.
> >>
> >> >You should note that this refers to using someone else's COMPUTER.
> >>
> >> I presume that you're debating the definition of computer and
> >> suggesting that a router is not a computer? I don't think so.
> >>
> >> All laws have a definition of terms section. I couldn't find it in
> >> the Virginia law, [...]
>
> >Why not jus read your own link (the first one? And then take a look at
> >what it says immediately after about what constitutes computer trespass,
> >while you're at it.
>
> I did and found nothing wrong.
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>
>> hlexa@hotmail.com (Axel Hammerschmidt) hath wroth:
>>
>> >Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>> >
>> >> hlexa@hotmail.com (Axel Hammerschmidt) hath wroth:
>> >>
>> >> >> The OP is in Virginia. Yep, Virginia has such a law.
>> >> >> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.html
>> >> >> | http://courses.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib...ginia.law.full
>> >> >> See section on:
>> >> >> s 18.2-152.4. COMPUTER trespass.
>> >> >> A person is "without authority" when he has no right or
>> >> >> permission of the owner to use a COMPUTER, or, he uses a
>> >> >> COMPUTER in a manner exceeding such right or permission.
>> >>
>> >> >You should note that this refers to using someone else's COMPUTER.
>> >>
>> >> I presume that you're debating the definition of computer and
>> >> suggesting that a router is not a computer? I don't think so.
>> >>
>> >> All laws have a definition of terms section. I couldn't find it in
>> >> the Virginia law, [...]
>>
>> >Why not jus read your own link (the first one? And then take a look at
>> >what it says immediately after about what constitutes computer trespass,
>> >while you're at it.
>>
>> I did and found nothing wrong.
>
>Read it again.
Twice is sufficient. I'm not asking you to perform an un-natural act.
I'm asking you to kindly explain what you find wrong with my posting,
logic, or whatever. Hopefully, you're capeable of more than one line
vague retorts. I'm fairly good at admitting that I'm wrong. However,
I don't like to play games. If you think you've found an error kindly
point it out. Otherwise, please don't waste my time with guessing
games.
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Rev Turd Fredericks <turdfred2@catholic.org> hath wroth:
>
>> Nothing in those links has anything to do with wardriving. In fact,
>> wireless access points actively advertise their availability so you
>> could turn the tables and say that the owner of the access point is
>> trying to hack the wardriver by accessing their wireless card. I think
>> the confusion here is in the definition of wardriving. Not in it's legality.
>
> True. Wardriving was not invented when these laws were written. It's
> also questionable whether active probeing constitutes an attack. For
> homework, try a two sentence definition of wardriving suitable for
> attaching to a state law definition of terms.
Wardriving: walking, driving, or being otherwise mobile with a wireless
network enabled device capable of receiving a signal from a wireless
access point. Wardriving does not constitute a crime under statute XXX
unless the intent is to illegally obtain internet access.
>
> Methinks the question is what test would the courts apply to
> wardriving to determine if constitutes a form of computer breaking and
> entry. For example, walking throught a building and checking if all
> the doors are locked does not constitute burglary. Yet, a jury could
> be convinced that door rattling constitutes the obligatory preliminary
> step before the burglary. The same *MIGHT* be said of wardriving if
> one lumps wardriving,port scanning, WEP cracking, passive sniffing,
> scripted attacks, Bluejacking, and DoS attacks, into the general
> classification of door rattling.
We are only talking about wardriving which is essentially a *passive*
activity. Your analogy breaks down at that point simply because there is
no attempt to rattle doors. It's more like walking through a
neighborhood where all the doors have signs on them that say "this door
is locked" "this door is unlocked" etc.
> It's a fine distinction, but until
> there are a few court decisions that establish precidents, rules of
> evidence, and proceedures, it's anyone's guess if wardriving
> constitutes a crime. A clueless judge could easily assume, like the
> DMCA, that *ANY* tool that facilitates illegal access is in itself
> illegal. It's not right, but it's very expedient.
I would say that once wardriving crosses the line from being a passive
to active activity it lands in a grey area. After that intent has to be
determined. For example, to use your analogy, if I were to walk through
a neighborhood reading signs (door is locked/unlocked) and there was a
door without a sign and I went up and rattled it, (and of course got
caught) was my intent to create a fix the sign or was I intending to go
in and steal something? The kinds of programs I had on my wardriving
computer might answer that question as well as perhaps my past record of
fixing signs or of going in and stealing stuff.
>
> As to whether a wireless network is open or closed, there are no
> defacto methods of indicating either. If your SSID is "Free Internet"
> or something equally obvious, but what about all the wireless routers
> that are setup with the default "linksys" as the SSID and no
> encryption?
>
I guess in that case the intent of the access points owner would need
determination. If the SSID is "Free Internet" then I doubt there would
be a judge or jury in the world that would convict you if you used it.
You might call the people with the "linksys SSID" stupid and reckless,
but you can't assume that because they leave their connection wide open,
that they want you to come and use it. Since you like analogies, lets
assume you inset a valuable diamond in your house number sign. It's very
reckless, but that doesn't give another person the right to come up and
steal it. It does however give someone the right to look at it and think
"what a dumbass, somebodies going to steal that one day"
--
Whoever thought that bioengineered food would lead to smart puke?
-Groundskeeper Willy
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:16:43 GMT, Rainman <rainman@rainman.rainman>
wrote:
>> Yeah and now that Linux *finally* supports Flash 9 it isn't
>> ~completely~ worthless as a desktop environment!
>Spoken as though Flash isn't one of the most worthless, bandwidth
>hogging apps ever created...
Spoken as though you're perpetually trapped in the year 2001 slurping
up all the usual failing propaganda.
People like you...you have no fucking idea what you can do with Flash.
Free cl00, Kiddie, it's ~not~ just for web pages/animation. And since
version 8 there have been some pretty incredible advancements in what
you can do with it.
As fucking inept as you are you probably hadn't even realized just how
widespread Flash usage is...most likely because the only Flash sites
~you~ actually notice are the ones made by spazzy tweenage muppet
fucks ass raping every other default transition effect.
Flash is EVERYWHERE, it's used for the interfaces on bank ATMs,
supermarket checkout stands, those nifty lil interactive video kiosks
that you see at E3 and other conventions, even the touch screen
menu/ordering systems that fast food places use to take your order.
Hell, I have TEN TIMES the number of requests for STAND ALONE Flash
applications than I do Flash web content.
Not to mention its ability to handle video content and use of the On2
VP6 codec, which in many ways is even superior to most builds of Xvid.
Integrated support for 32 bit JPEGs, full support of alpha transparent
video, FIFTY TIMES faster than Javascript, use of the
ColorMatrixFilter, ability to pass variables to and from PHP scripts,
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
....you don't know...because you're a FUCKING RETARD. And you know,
when you are...you REALLY shouldn't run around perpetuating outdated
lies and bullshit.
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:16:17 -0400, noload <noload@dot.com> wrote:
>Sounds to me like the Mad Hater is one of those that are very easily
>entertained by cheap thrills.
You're apparently entertained by slurping up and regurgitating LAST
DECADES failing views and stupidity. Free cl00, Kiddie, there have
been some fairly significant advances in Flash since the year 2000.
>You can't teach them anything new. You've just got to let them go on
>wasting their lives away.
I believe with enough beatings I can even teach someone as DUMB as you
about the uses of Flash.
Hatter Quotes
-------------
"You're only one of the best if you're striving to become one of the
best."
"I didn't make reality, Sunshine, I just verbally bitch slapped you
with it."
"I'm not a professional, I'm an artist."
"Your Usenet blinders are my best friend."
"Usenet Filters - Learn to shut yourself the fuck up!"
"Drugs killed Jesus you know...oh wait, no, that was the Jews, my
bad."
"There are clingy things in the grass...burrs 'n such...mmmm..."
"The more I learn the more I'm killing my idols."
"Is it wrong to incur and then use the hate ridden, vengeful stupidity
of complete strangers in random Usenet froups to further my art?"
"Freedom is only a concept, like race it's merely a social construct
that doesn't really exist outside of your ability to convince others
of its relevancy."
"Next time slow up a lil, then maybe you won't jump the gun and start
creamin yer panties before it's time to pop the champagne proper."
"Reality is directly proportionate to how creative you are."
"People are pretty fucking high on themselves if they think that
they're just born with a soul. *snicker*...yeah, like they're just
givin em out for free."
"Quible, quible said the Hare. Quite a lot of quibling...everywhere.
So the Hare took a long stare and decided at best, to leave the rest,
to their merry little mess."
"There's a difference between 'bad' and 'so earth shatteringly
horrible it makes the angels scream in terror as they violently rip
their heads off, their blood spraying into the faces of a thousand
sweet innocent horrified children, who will forever have the terrible
images burned into their tiny little minds'."
"How sad that you're such a poor judge of style that you can't even
properly gauge the artistic worth of your own efforts."
"Those who record history are those who control history."
"I am the living embodiment of hell itself in all its tormentive rage,
endless suffering, unfathomable pain and unending horror...but you
don't get sent to me...I come for you."
"Ideally in a fight I'd want a BGM-109A with a W80 250 kiloton
tactical thermonuclear fusion based war head."
"Tell me, would you describe yourself more as a process or a
function?"
"Apparently this group has got the market cornered on stupid.
Intelligence is down 137 points across the board and the forecast
indicates an increase in Webtv users."
"Is my .sig delimiter broken? Really? You're sure? Awww,
gee...that's too bad...for YOU!" `, )
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:11:14 +0000, Rev Turd Fredericks wrote:
> wireless access points actively advertise their availability so you could
> turn the tables and say that the owner of the access point is trying to
> hack the wardriver by accessing their wireless card.
Reductio ad absurdum, though not below the ken of many legal minds.
You're beating around the "inducement" bush and while that gambit has been
used by many, the logical -and at the same time illogical- extension of
your idea is that we could hold homeowners partially responsible for the
actions of B&E artists because the homeowner has doors and windows in
his/her house.
Onideus Mad Hatter wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:16:43 GMT, Rainman <rainman@rainman.rainman>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Yeah and now that Linux *finally* supports Flash 9 it isn't
>>>~completely~ worthless as a desktop environment!
>
>
>>Spoken as though Flash isn't one of the most worthless, bandwidth
>>hogging apps ever created...
>
>
> Spoken as though you're perpetually trapped in the year 2001 slurping
> up all the usual failing propaganda.
Oh christ, you've crawled out from under your rock again?
Onideus Mad Hatter wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:16:17 -0400, noload <noload@dot.com> wrote:
>
>> Sounds to me like the Mad Hater is one of those that are very easily
>> entertained by cheap thrills.
>
> You're apparently entertained by slurping up and regurgitating LAST
> DECADES failing views and stupidity. Free cl00, Kiddie, there have
> been some fairly significant advances in Flash since the year 2000.
>
>> You can't teach them anything new. You've just got to let them go on
>> wasting their lives away.
>
> I believe with enough beatings I can even teach someone as DUMB as you
> about the uses of Flash.
>
OK Zippy, I think it's time you took your medications. Calm down,
everything's going to be alright. Remember what your Doctor said about
getting all excited. Go play with your "flash" some more.
mr.b wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:11:14 +0000, Rev Turd Fredericks wrote:
>
>> wireless access points actively advertise their availability so you could
>> turn the tables and say that the owner of the access point is trying to
>> hack the wardriver by accessing their wireless card.
>
> Reductio ad absurdum, though not below the ken of many legal minds.
> You're beating around the "inducement" bush and while that gambit has been
> used by many, the logical -and at the same time illogical- extension of
> your idea is that we could hold homeowners partially responsible for the
> actions of B&E artists because the homeowner has doors and windows in
> his/her house.
As I stated in an earlier post, the analogy of B&E doesn't work here,
receiving a wireless signal is a passive activity, you merely have to
turn on your computer and there is the signal. It is more like looking
in windows that don't have shades than rattling doors. If you don't want
somebody to look in your windows, pull down the shades.
--
Whoever thought that bioengineered food would lead to smart puke?
-Groundskeeper Willy
Questions about wardriving 