>does anyone knows where can i find tutorials or pictures on how to put
>on the ends on the llc coaxal cables..please
Limited Liability Corporation? Look for the manufacturers name just
before the LLC. Also, see if you can find a coax cable number:
<http://www.awcwire.com/ProductSpec.aspx?id=MIL-C-17-Coaxial>
Then, you can look at your N-male coax connect and see if it has a
manufactory and part number. Then, perhaps the instructions can be
found.
>thanks in advance
You might want to reconsider thanking me. Soldering or crimping N
connectors requires some practice. You're almost certain to ruin a
few until you get it right. If crimped, you'll need to buy a crimping
tool. If soldered, it's probably the wrong type of coax cable for
anything other than short length pigtails.
> Shotta_tav <Shotta_tav.34p836@no-mx.wirelessforums.org> wrote
>>does anyone knows where can i find tutorials or pictures on how to put
>>on the ends on the llc coaxal cables..please
<snip>
>>thanks in advance
>
>
> You might want to reconsider thanking me. Soldering or crimping N
> connectors requires some practice. You're almost certain to ruin a
> few until you get it right. If crimped, you'll need to buy a crimping
> tool.
<snip>
Unless you are a jobber doing installations, you probably can't afford
the crimp tool; consider locating a firm or person in your area that
does installations and have your cable connectors crimped for a hopefully
small fee. Don't consider soldering; at these wavelengths you would
need to be quite proficient to get a useful result.
On Feb 12, 11:36 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> Shotta_tav <Shotta_tav.34p...@no-mx.wirelessforums.org> hath wroth:
>
> >does anyone knows where can i find tutorials or pictures on how to put
> >on the ends on the llc coaxal cables..please
>
> Limited Liability Corporation? Look for the manufacturers name just
> before the LLC. Also, see if you can find a coax cable number:
> <http://www.awcwire.com/ProductSpec.aspx?id=MIL-C-17-Coaxial>
> Then, you can look at your N-male coax connect and see if it has a
> manufactory and part number. Then, perhaps the instructions can be
> found.
>
> >thanks in advance
>
> You might want to reconsider thanking me. Soldering or crimping N
> connectors requires some practice. You're almost certain to ruin a
> few until you get it right. If crimped, you'll need to buy a crimping
> tool. If soldered, it's probably the wrong type of coax cable for
> anything other than short length pigtails.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
I've done compression fittings and crimp on. [The crimper ain't
cheap!] I find the commercially built cables to be superior if you can
find one that fits your needs. About 2 years ago I bought a bunch of
Cushcraft Ultralink cables for a veyr fair price on ebay. The 3 footer
cost less than the what I would pay for connectors. They are a bit
stiff.
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> Shotta_tav <Shotta_tav.34p836@no-mx.wirelessforums.org> wrote
>
>>>does anyone knows where can i find tutorials or pictures on how to put
>>>on the ends on the llc coaxal cables..please
>
><snip>
>>>thanks in advance
>>
>>
>> You might want to reconsider thanking me. Soldering or crimping N
>> connectors requires some practice. You're almost certain to ruin a
>> few until you get it right. If crimped, you'll need to buy a crimping
>> tool.
><snip>
>Unless you are a jobber doing installations, you probably can't afford
>the crimp tool;
Cheapo crimpers are adequate (if properly used).
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/crimpers.html>
<http://www.fab-corp.com/home.php?cat=281>
About $40/ea from numerous online sources. The HT-336G and HT-336R
will suffice for LMR-400 and smaller, including the common RG sizes.
LMR-600 and the larger sizes user more expensive tools, but match the
sizes of common electrical hex crimpers.
My most common screwup are dealing with the subtle differences between
the various grades of LMR-400. For example, rubberized (ultra-flex)
and plastic jacket (ultra-stiff) LMR-400 cable are slightly different
outside diameters, which require different connectors.
>consider locating a firm or person in your area that
>does installations and have your cable connectors crimped for a hopefully
>small fee.
Small fee? The N connectors cost me about $9/ea. It takes about 10
minutes per crimp, plus about 30 minutes finding all the junk needed
in the truck, dragging it into the office, getting setup, doing the
crimp, cleaning up the mess, throwing everything back into the truck,
and testing the result on a sweep generator and TDR. At $75/hr plus
the cost of replacing the overpriced razor blades in the stripper,
that's about $80 per cable (two connectors). You're better off buying
the crimpers.
Drivel: I loan my tools to the local hams for their projects. I know
it's risky, but the entertainment value of watching them struggle with
the connectors is worth the risk.
>Don't consider soldering; at these wavelengths you would
>need to be quite proficient to get a useful result.
Like crimping soldering takes practice and is easily mastered after
destroying the requisite amount of equipment. However, soldering is
not the problem. It's the UG-21b/u N connector:
<http://www.alliedelec.com/search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=713-3311>
left over from WWII that is the problem. There are a few solder type
replacements, that work much better than this antique nightmare. It's
also made to works with RG-8/u type cables, which are very lossy at
2.4GHz and should only be used for short pigtails.
>I've done compression fittings and crimp on. [The crimper ain't
>cheap!]
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/crimpers.html>
About $40/ea all over the net.
The one for LMR-600 is about $80. After "losing" a $350 AMP
Certi-crimp tool, my policy on such tools is NBC (Nothing But Cheap).
>I find the commercially built cables to be superior if you can
>find one that fits your needs.
Yeah, right. The only failures I've had were with commercially built
cables. That function is usually outsourced to a high skool kid in a
garage borrowing his fathers tools. I've seen an amazing number of
creative stripping and crimping efforts from "commerical" cable
vendors, all of them hidden under opaque black shrink tube. I can
usually spot the problems with a TDR and sweep generator, but after a
few disasters, I test everything. Incidentally, I bought the tools
not to make my own cables, but to repair the crap I was getting from
my suppliers.
>About 2 years ago I bought a bunch of
>Cushcraft Ultralink cables for a veyr fair price on ebay. The 3 footer
>cost less than the what I would pay for connectors. They are a bit
>stiff.
I've also done quite well buying such things on eBay. However, it's
the exotic cable combinations (i.e. pigtails) and repair jobs that
drive the need for a crimper. Interestingly, the most common cable I
have to make is a simple LMR-400 extension, with N connectors on both
ends, but that has to be fed through a 1/2" hole in the wall. Same
with LMR-400 shoved through packed PVC conduit. There's no way to
build the cable in advance as the connectors are bigger than the hole
or won't go through the conduit. So, it has to be built on site.
Now, if I can only remember to slide on the shrink tube BEFORE
crimping the connector...
On Feb 13, 11:00 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> m...@sushi.com hath wroth:
>
> >I've done compression fittings and crimp on. [The crimper ain't
> >cheap!]
>
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/crimpers.html>
> About $40/ea all over the net.
> The one for LMR-600 is about $80. After "losing" a $350 AMP
> Certi-crimp tool, my policy on such tools is NBC (Nothing But Cheap).
>
> >I find the commercially built cables to be superior if you can
> >find one that fits your needs.
>
> Yeah, right. The only failures I've had were with commercially built
> cables. That function is usually outsourced to a high skool kid in a
> garage borrowing his fathers tools. I've seen an amazing number of
> creative stripping and crimping efforts from "commerical" cable
> vendors, all of them hidden under opaque black shrink tube. I can
> usually spot the problems with a TDR and sweep generator, but after a
> few disasters, I test everything. Incidentally, I bought the tools
> not to make my own cables, but to repair the crap I was getting from
> my suppliers.
>
> >About 2 years ago I bought a bunch of
> >Cushcraft Ultralink cables for a veyr fair price on ebay. The 3 footer
> >cost less than the what I would pay for connectors. They are a bit
> >stiff.
>
> I've also done quite well buying such things on eBay. However, it's
> the exotic cable combinations (i.e. pigtails) and repair jobs that
> drive the need for a crimper. Interestingly, the most common cable I
> have to make is a simple LMR-400 extension, with N connectors on both
> ends, but that has to be fed through a 1/2" hole in the wall. Same
> with LMR-400 shoved through packed PVC conduit. There's no way to
> build the cable in advance as the connectors are bigger than the hole
> or won't go through the conduit. So, it has to be built on site.
>
> Now, if I can only remember to slide on the shrink tube BEFORE
> crimping the connector...
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
I think I paid $60 for the crimper at Fry's, but it has
interchangeable die (if that is the right word).
My problem is the connector being pulled off the cable. In some ways,
I thing the UHF connector that requires soldering is more reliable. A
crappy connector mind you, but what is soldered doesn't fall off.
>I think I paid $60 for the crimper at Fry's, but it has
>interchangeable die (if that is the right word).
The prices on the HyperlinkTech web pile seem to be much less than
what I paid (about 4 years ago).
>My problem is the connector being pulled off the cable.
I have the same problem. It's almost always the wrong size connector.
Like I mumbled, there are subtle differences in OD with different
grades of LMR-400 (and others).
>In some ways,
>I thing the UHF connector that requires soldering is more reliable.
Maybe, if you don't destroy the cable from overheating.
>A crappy connector mind you, but what is soldered doesn't fall off.
Try it with a frequency sweep test and TDR test, and see if you still
like PL-259/SO-239 connectors.
>Where do you get extra crimp rings?
I've tried to get them from RF Industries and King, but failed. No
part number on just the rings as of about 3 years ago when I last
checked. Also, too many different sizes. I just downloaded the RF
Industries catalog... nothing.
So, I dug out the copper and brass tubing catalogs and found some
copper tubing that was rather close to what I needed. It's much
thicker than the stock crimp ring, but it crunches down to the right
size quite nicely with the judicious application of lots of brute
force. I also have a friend that owns a machine shop that found some
brass tubing that was close. It's not very pretty looking, but I hide
my mistakes under a layer of shrink tube.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:bve6r3dk3fa431g9r12c6492nhj1g0a1k5@4ax.com:
> Now, if I can only remember to slide on the shrink tube BEFORE
> crimping the connector...
Don't you just hate when that happens !!!!!
I'm partial to cable-clamp type connectors over crimp style. If an end goes
bad, you can easily just take the connector apart and re-attach it.
Of course, the ends that go bad are usually on bench cables that get a lot
of connect/disconnect cycles....not too many problems with connectors that
are just connected and left alone.
On Feb 13, 9:46 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> m...@sushi.com hath wroth:
>
> >I think I paid $60 for the crimper at Fry's, but it has
> >interchangeable die (if that is the right word).
>
> The prices on the HyperlinkTech web pile seem to be much less than
> what I paid (about 4 years ago).
>
> >My problem is the connector being pulled off the cable.
>
> I have the same problem. It's almost always the wrong size connector.
> Like I mumbled, there are subtle differences in OD with different
> grades of LMR-400 (and others).
>
> >In some ways,
> >I thing the UHF connector that requires soldering is more reliable.
>
> Maybe, if you don't destroy the cable from overheating.
>
> >A crappy connector mind you, but what is soldered doesn't fall off.
>
> Try it with a frequency sweep test and TDR test, and see if you still
> like PL-259/SO-239 connectors.
>
> >Where do you get extra crimp rings?
>
> I've tried to get them from RF Industries and King, but failed. No
> part number on just the rings as of about 3 years ago when I last
> checked. Also, too many different sizes. I just downloaded the RF
> Industries catalog... nothing.
>
> So, I dug out the copper and brass tubing catalogs and found some
> copper tubing that was rather close to what I needed. It's much
> thicker than the stock crimp ring, but it crunches down to the right
> size quite nicely with the judicious application of lots of brute
> force. I also have a friend that owns a machine shop that found some
> brass tubing that was close. It's not very pretty looking, but I hide
> my mistakes under a layer of shrink tube.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
I'll look into finding the right size tubing. It seems ridiculous to
buy a new connector for lack of a crinp ring. What a scam.
On 14 Feb 2008 12:16:49 GMT, DanS
<t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote:
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
>news:bve6r3dk3fa431g9r12c6492nhj1g0a1k5@4ax.com :
>
>> Now, if I can only remember to slide on the shrink tube BEFORE
>> crimping the connector...
>
>Don't you just hate when that happens !!!!!
Yep. I do have some alternatives. My favorite is to wrap the
connector with 1/2" wide PTFE plumbers tape. I then embalm the PTFE
tape in electrical tape. The PTFE provides waterproofing and prevent
wicking. The electrical tape just holds it in place. When removed,
the connect is as shinny as new.
>I'm partial to cable-clamp type connectors over crimp style. If an end goes
>bad, you can easily just take the connector apart and re-attach it.
That's because UG-21b/u style connectors always go bad. They're not
really made to tolerate much twisting and yanking, as is common with
my test cables. Eventually, they just fall apart.
That hasn't been the case with crimp type connectors. They seem to
last forever with a few noteable exceptions. The small SMA or smaller
connectors and tiny cables are a problem. The edge of the crimp
sleeve always seems to cut into the coax jacket and rip up the
connector. It still works, but looks awful. One fix is to use
wateproof (AMP/TYCO) connectors, which have a rubber sleeve between
the coax jacket and the crimp sleeve.
>Of course, the ends that go bad are usually on bench cables that get a lot
>of connect/disconnect cycles....not too many problems with connectors that
>are just connected and left alone.
Better the test cables go bad than the mating connectors on the test
equipment. I have some junk that used plated zinc BNC connectors. All
the ears have worn off.
My favorite connector is the CATV F connector, which is not really a
connector but more like a threaded sleeve to hold the coax in the
receptacle. Cheap, efficient, disposable, and quite good RF
characteristics. RG-6/u and F connectors work nicely at 2.4 GHz.
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:03:58 -0800 (PST), miso@sushi.com wrote:
>I'll look into finding the right size tubing. It seems ridiculous to
>buy a new connector for lack of a crinp ring. What a scam.
I measured, recorded, and misplaced a table of dimensions for the
various RF Industries crimp sleeves. I'll dig when I get home.
If you order copper, make sure you get hard drawn copper, not soft.
Soft just doesn't have the holding power and will cold flow. Also,
note that there's a big difference in pipe and tubing. Pipe is
measured by the ID, while tubing by the OD. Note the comments on:
<http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=91&step=2&top_cat=87>
<http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=84&step=2&top_cat=79>
Also, I had some trouble cutting the sleeves as the tubing would get
mangled by my pipe cutter. So, I turned a round wood dowel to the
correct size and used it for inside support. Later, I used a lathe to
do the cutting, but that was overkill. The only problem with the pipe
cutter is that it tends to create a sharp edge, which when pointed
inward at the coax jacket, will badly gouge the coax cable. You'll
need to deburr the cut crimp sleeves, which is not easy.
Since none of the sleeves every carry RF on any surface, I saw no
reason to silver plate them. However, I did have some electroless
silver (Silver Cyanide) handy, so I did it anyway. Be sure to
degrease and acid wash the sleeves first. (Yeah, I forgot and they
look awful).
You might want to call or write RF Industries in case something has
changed in the last few years. If not, you may find it profitable to
sell sleeves and crimp rings on eBay.
On Feb 14, 3:41 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us>
wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:03:58 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote:
> >I'll look into finding the right size tubing. It seems ridiculous to
> >buy a new connector for lack of a crinp ring. What a scam.
>
> I measured, recorded, and misplaced a table of dimensions for the
> various RF Industries crimp sleeves. I'll dig when I get home.
>
> If you order copper, make sure you get hard drawn copper, not soft.
> Soft just doesn't have the holding power and will cold flow. Also,
> note that there's a big difference in pipe and tubing. Pipe is
> measured by the ID, while tubing by the OD. Note the comments on:
> <http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=91&step=2&top_cat=87>
> <http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=84&step=2&top_cat=79>
>
> Also, I had some trouble cutting the sleeves as the tubing would get
> mangled by my pipe cutter. So, I turned a round wood dowel to the
> correct size and used it for inside support. Later, I used a lathe to
> do the cutting, but that was overkill. The only problem with the pipe
> cutter is that it tends to create a sharp edge, which when pointed
> inward at the coax jacket, will badly gouge the coax cable. You'll
> need to deburr the cut crimp sleeves, which is not easy.
>
> Since none of the sleeves every carry RF on any surface, I saw no
> reason to silver plate them. However, I did have some electroless
> silver (Silver Cyanide) handy, so I did it anyway. Be sure to
> degrease and acid wash the sleeves first. (Yeah, I forgot and they
> look awful).
>
> You might want to call or write RF Industries in case something has
> changed in the last few years. If not, you may find it profitable to
> sell sleeves and crimp rings on eBay.
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> #http://802.11junk.com je...@cruzio.com
> #http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
I didn't have any luck finding crimp rings for RG-8.
Totally off-topic, but I installed NEC2. Man, what a stone-age piece
of software. 4NEC2 crashes under X64. The only one I could get to run
on my Suse box was nec2c. I ran Trevor Marshall's biquad in about a
minute. [I'll see if compilation flags can improve this.] This is
going to be a steep learning curve.
I'll start a new thread here should I have any wifi NEC2 questions,
but will most likely just join the NEC2 list.
I don't use crimped F connectors. I use the waterproof T&B fitting
and a piston insertion tool. The rings are probably too short (in
length) to work with anything other than an F connector.
>I didn't have any luck finding crimp rings for RG-8.
I'll see if I can find my tubing list.
>Totally off-topic, but I installed NEC2. Man, what a stone-age piece
>of software.
Which one? There are plenty to choose from.
<http://www.antennex.com/preview/Folder04/Apr702/mn.html>
What you have is a Fortran simulation program, with a Windoze front
end. The consensus in the mailing list is that it's better to have
accurate numbers than a glitzy front end. If it were written in a
pure Windoze environment (dot Net?), it would probably be VERY slow.
>4NEC2 crashes under X64.
Tell it to Ari. He listens to complaints. Be prepared to describe
your system and environment. If all else fails, you might wanna
compile your own. Source code at:
<http://home.ict.nl/~arivoors/Nec2dXS_src.zip>
>The only one I could get to run
>on my Suse box was nec2c. I ran Trevor Marshall's biquad in about a
>minute. [I'll see if compilation flags can improve this.] This is
>going to be a steep learning curve.
Try some of the examples that come with 4NEC2.
>I'll start a new thread here should I have any wifi NEC2 questions,
>but will most likely just join the NEC2 list.
The NEC2 list does not do well with basic design questions. Most of
the participants are professional designers and academics. Read the
archives before asking questions. Unfortunately, I don't know of a
better place to ask questions.
On Feb 15, 3:58 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us>
wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:08:18 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote:
> >I see Rat Shack sells crimp rings for RG-6.
> >http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103462
>
> I don't use crimped F connectors. I use the waterproof T&B fitting
> and a piston insertion tool. The rings are probably too short (in
> length) to work with anything other than an F connector.
>
> >I didn't have any luck finding crimp rings for RG-8.
>
> I'll see if I can find my tubing list.
>
> >Totally off-topic, but I installed NEC2. Man, what a stone-age piece
> >of software.
>
> Which one? There are plenty to choose from.
> <http://www.antennex.com/preview/Folder04/Apr702/mn.html>
> What you have is a Fortran simulation program, with a Windoze front
> end. The consensus in the mailing list is that it's better to have
> accurate numbers than a glitzy front end. If it were written in a
> pure Windoze environment (dot Net?), it would probably be VERY slow.
>
> >4NEC2 crashes under X64.
>
> Tell it to Ari. He listens to complaints. Be prepared to describe
> your system and environment. If all else fails, you might wanna
> compile your own. Source code at:
> <http://home.ict.nl/~arivoors/Nec2dXS_src.zip>
>
> >The only one I could get to run
> >on my Suse box was nec2c. I ran Trevor Marshall's biquad in about a
> >minute. [I'll see if compilation flags can improve this.] This is
> >going to be a steep learning curve.
>
> Try some of the examples that come with 4NEC2.
>
> >I'll start a new thread here should I have any wifi NEC2 questions,
> >but will most likely just join the NEC2 list.
>
> The NEC2 list does not do well with basic design questions. Most of
> the participants are professional designers and academics. Read the
> archives before asking questions. Unfortunately, I don't know of a
> better place to ask questions.
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> #http://802.11junk.com je...@cruzio.com
> #http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
I only pointed out the RG-6 to show at least some crimp rings exist
without the rest of the connector.
Since the NEC2 archive page has quite a few programs on it, to be
specific this is the one that compiled without a hassle: http://www.si-list.net/NEC_Archives/...rxq-0.2.tar.gz
It has some option regrading parallel jobs.
I didn't know there was g77 on windows. I'll give it a shot.
I really have to hand it those that converted the program to C. They
cleaned up nearly a 1000 gotos. Also the memory is all dynamic.
My plan is to first study Trevors example. [Nothing better than having
the solution before you start the analysis.] I'd like to model those
AMOS designs so that I could evaluate a scaled L-band version.
On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:41:29 -0800 in alt.internet.wireless, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote,
>do the cutting, but that was overkill. The only problem with the pipe
>cutter is that it tends to create a sharp edge, which when pointed
>inward at the coax jacket, will badly gouge the coax cable. You'll
>need to deburr the cut crimp sleeves, which is not easy.
The tools sold for deburring rifle cartridges for hand reloading are
useful.
On Feb 14, 4:16 am, DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h....@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t>
wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote innews:bve6r3dk3fa431g9r12c6492nhj1g0a1k5@4ax.com:
>
> > Now, if I can only remember to slide on the shrink tube BEFORE
> > crimping the connector...
>
> Don't you just hate when that happens !!!!!
>
> I'm partial to cable-clamp type connectors over crimp style. If an end goes
> bad, you can easily just take the connector apart and re-attach it.
>
> Of course, the ends that go bad are usually on bench cables that get a lot
> of connect/disconnect cycles....not too many problems with connectors that
> are just connected and left alone.
I haven't seen such connectors, but why couldn't you use a cable tie
with kind of connector that is designed to be used with crimp rings?
Re: how to put n-male ends on coaxal cable 
Linear Mode
