Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:56:34 GMT, Walter Roberson wrote:
>>What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>
> Dial-up.

I do use dial-up on occasion. Netzero can be used when you need to send
those private message you don't want anyone to trace. But dialup is
painfully slow compared to dsl.

Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:19:39 GMT, Aluxe <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote
in <16evhz1yifcwd$.ijb6z8uuf2h2$.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:56:34 GMT, Walter Roberson wrote:
>>>What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>>
>> Dial-up.
>
>I do use dial-up on occasion. Netzero can be used when you need to send
>those private message you don't want anyone to trace. But dialup is
>painfully slow compared to dsl.
>
>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?

No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
slow, painful, and/or not free.

I'd personally worry much more about tracking cookies than about IP,
which is way down the list of real concerns.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:03 GMT, John Navas wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:19:39 GMT, Aluxe <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote
> in <16evhz1yifcwd$.ijb6z8uuf2h2$.dlg@40tude.net>:
>
>>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:56:34 GMT, Walter Roberson wrote:
>>>>What is the easiest way to change my DSL IP address periodically?
>>>
>>> Dial-up.
>>
>>I do use dial-up on occasion. Netzero can be used when you need to send
>>those private message you don't want anyone to trace. But dialup is
>>painfully slow compared to dsl.
>>
>>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
>>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?
>
> No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
> slow, painful, and/or not free.
>
> I'd personally worry much more about tracking cookies than about IP,
> which is way down the list of real concerns.

Thank you John Naves for the advice.
I do already use software that cleans up my cookies, removes and prevents
adware and spyware.

At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
system. And other things that I don't even know.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:03 GMT, John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com>
wrote:


>>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then ask
>>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?
>
>No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
>slow, painful, and/or not free.
>

And not particularly effective either


http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1794&rss



greg
--
"He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

"Greg Hennessy" <me@privacy.org> wrote in message
news:k7iaj2tsfa1oanql5r15gttd1g4nvrfgsv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:57:03 GMT, John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >>Isn't there a software way to give up an IP address overnight and then
ask
> >>for a new one in the morning without having to unplug everything?
> >
> >No. Your only real option is to use an "anonymizer" service, but that's
> >slow, painful, and/or not free.
> >
>
> And not particularly effective either
>
>
> http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1794&rss

Thanks for the link. Very interesting read.
>
>
>
> greg
> --
> "He's raising an unholy army of singing dinosaurs!"

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:09:15 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
<aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote:

>At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
>you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
>example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
>system. And other things that I don't even know.

FCOL this is pointless stuff to worry about.

If you phone someone up, they know which town you're in, and your IP
will do no better for them. You can tell from mine I'm in Oxford. But
where? There's 100,000 people here. And who cares about your ISP or
newsreader?

And nobody can tell your MAC by the way. Except your ISP, who needs to
know.
--
Mark McIntyre

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
>> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
>> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
>> system. And other things that I don't even know.
>
> No, we don't get your MAC address.

Hi Warren Oates,

I guess I was wrong.

I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).

It's not that we expect everyone to duck their head under the IP packet to
look at us, but, we still close the door so as to have a modicum of
privacy.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:33:03 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> If you phone someone up, they know which town you're in,

Hi Mark,

I agree if you phone someone they can get your telephone number and do a
reverse lookup on the Internet to find not only where they live, but the
price of their house and that of their neighbors (I've done it at times
myself to see who called me).

However, you don't phone ten thousand people at a time (which is what we
are doing here on the Internet).

Having one person be able to identify you vs having ten thousand be able to
identify you lets in a lot of kooks, don't you think?

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:33:59 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:
> http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?storyid=1794&rss

Hi Greg,

I read the reference article but I must agree with Mark that I am nearly
clueless.

For example, this key sentence was supposed to make sense but it didn't/

For example, the article stated:
" ... it replicated data which was apparently being submitted to the host
via an HTTP cookie so it seemed that the idea was to have the cookie travel
to the unwitting Tor user and be sent back via DNS tunnel to an external
host to confirm the real identity of the host. "

Unfortunately, to me, these are too complicated.
Sorry.

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1m2g2nhwk5ckw$.8qr6ipjz2j4g$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> >> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to
give
> >> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress,
for
> >> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
> >> system. And other things that I don't even know.
> >
> > No, we don't get your MAC address.
>
> Hi Warren Oates,
>
> I guess I was wrong.
>
> I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
> communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

Yes if that is your ISP. and if you change your computers mac address, they
can track that as well.
And unless there is somekind of court order, ISP's do not track or give out
the surfing patterns of their users.
>
> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).

Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
out that information.


> It's not that we expect everyone to duck their head under the IP packet to
> look at us, but, we still close the door so as to have a modicum of
> privacy.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
>> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).
>
> Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
> out that information.

Hi Dana,
I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
answers.

May I ask again?

TEST: Assume this scenario:
- I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
- I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
- I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
back to me
- I disconnect from NetZero
- I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8

QUESTION:
Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

This should be a YES or NO kind of answer.
I assume YES based on the fact that nothing in the IP packet header was
true. But, you seem to be saying my original MAC address (which can be
tracked back not only to the manufacturer of the PC but to the owner based
on store records) is also appended to the packet.

Are you saying BOTH the original and the bogus MAC address are appended to
the packets?

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$.dlg@40tude.net. ..
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
> >> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).
> >
> > Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to
give
> > out that information.
>
> Hi Dana,
> I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
> answers.
>
> May I ask again?
>
> TEST: Assume this scenario:
> - I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
> - I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
> - I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
> back to me
> - I disconnect from NetZero
> - I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8

And your friend has the mac address you changed via a court order.
As the changed mac address still is associated with your account with net
zero.
It would be no different if you used a different computer to log into your
netzero account.
>
> QUESTION:
> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> QUESTION:
>> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.

Hi Dana,

Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.

CASE 1:
In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.

CASE 2:
In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.

CASE 3:
However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a temporary
change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:00:45 GMT, Aluxe <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote
in <1m2g2nhwk5ckw$.8qr6ipjz2j4g$.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:30:31 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>>> At this point, I just want to reduce the number of things I have to give
>>> you when I post, e.g., you can tell my location from my IP adddress, for
>>> example. And my ISP. And my MAC. And my newsreader. And my operating
>>> system. And other things that I don't even know.
>>
>> No, we don't get your MAC address.
>
>Hi Warren Oates,
>
>I guess I was wrong.
>
>I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
>communications by my MAC address. Is that true?

No.

Do you believe everything you hear?

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:31:11 GMT, Aluxe <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote
in <1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$.dlg@40tude.net>:

>On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:11:41 -0800, Dana wrote:
>>> If so, changing the MAC address would add a level of privacy (just like
>>> closing the bathroom door adds a level of privacy).
>>
>> Not really, because the ISP still knows, and if required can be told to give
>> out that information.
>
>Hi Dana,
>I must say, I both appreciate your help and I don't understand your
>answers.
>
>May I ask again?
>
>TEST: Assume this scenario:
>- I change my MAC address to 00-00-00-00-00-00
>- I dial into NetZero from a blocked telephone line
>- I send a personal note to an old friend that I don't want easily tracked
>back to me
>- I disconnect from NetZero
>- I change my MAC address back to 00-24-43-55-F4-F8
>
>QUESTION:
>Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?

No.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:02 GMT, John Navas wrote:
>>I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all my
>>communications by my MAC address. Is that true?
> No.
> Do you believe everything you hear?

Hi John Navas,

I was under the impression that the MAC address contained two parts.

The first part identified the manufacturer and the second part uniquely
identified the unit.

That unit (probably a daughterboard card or part of the motherboard) could
then easily be traced back to the serial number of the computer.

Which, in turn, could be traced to an individual owner of that computer by
a variety of common methods.

Is that not true?

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:49 GMT, John Navas wrote::
>>Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>>brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No.

Hi John Navas,
I agree with you (and Dana) about these two cases:
CASE 1:
Changing the MAC when dialed into your own ISP provides no extra privacy.

CASE 2:
Changing the MAC when dialed into NetZero, effectively provides no extra
privacy.

But, is it the same answer for a free hotspot?

CASE 3:
Does changing the MAC address when connected to a free anonymous hotspot
provide any extra level of privacy?

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1frsu1jxpmmcq$.vkb0d7mzmta9$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> QUESTION:
> >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
> >
> > No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
> wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.
>
> CASE 1:
> In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
> with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.
>
> CASE 2:
> In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
> the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.
>
> CASE 3:
> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a
temporary
> change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?

For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC, that cannot be change
by you. When you change your MAC, you are telling the protocol to use the
MAC address you provide, vice the normally used burned in MAC. I need to see
how the protocol works to establish the public free connection. I am pretty
sure it is going to use the MAC you tell it to use and not use the burned in
address. Of course you would have to change this mac prior to enabling the
wireless adapter, or else the wireless adapter would communicate with the
hotspot network looking for a connection using the burned in address.

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wz955p5whmg4$.18d9wx0vriwom$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:58:02 GMT, John Navas wrote:
> >>I was told by a friend that even when I use NetZero, they can track all
my
> >>communications by my MAC address. Is that true?
> > No.
> > Do you believe everything you hear?
>
> Hi John Navas,
>
> I was under the impression that the MAC address contained two parts.
>
> The first part identified the manufacturer and the second part uniquely
> identified the unit.

What is called the NIC, network interface card.
This is where you plug in the cable from your ISP.
Can be a standalone card, or now it is a chip on the mother board.

>
> That unit (probably a daughterboard card or part of the motherboard) could
> then easily be traced back to the serial number of the computer.

So long as you do not replace it. The serial number of the computer will
never be used over the network, nor does the NIC care what the serial number
is.
The burned in MAC address is all the NIC cares about.
>
> Which, in turn, could be traced to an individual owner of that computer by
> a variety of common methods.

Yes, by using that MAC addressed which will be shown to be associated to
your ISP account once you log in, or hook that computer up to your always on
DSL/cable connection.
What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of your
DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find a
way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.
>
> Is that not true?

Mostly yes.

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1frsu1jxpmmcq$.vkb0d7mzmta9$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:49:19 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> QUESTION:
> >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
> >
> > No, because it is still associated with your account with net zero.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Ah, I finally understand. I agree with you. I was wrong. I was, in fact,
> wasting my time by changing my MAC address periodically.

Like we have been trying to tell you.
Now realize that if you want to stay anon on the net, the use of a proxy
server while you surf, will slow you down a little, but would conceal what
IP you are using.
For mail and newsgroup posting, a remailer works, yes I gave you one link
already that may have been expensive, but you could probably find one
cheaper depending on how much you expect to post and download.
Really the only one who has the goods on you, is your ISP. But unless they
have a reason (court order, complaints, etc ) they are not tracking you.
There is technology that will track surfing behavior and block sites that
are not allowed.
Kuwait and other middle eastern countries and I heard China tracks your
surfing and blocks sites.
The military network has devices installed where it records what sites
people go to by MAC address, so the military can identify what computer was
used. Yes the military tracks which MAC address is assigned to what computer
(the units I supported recently in Iraq were).

>
> CASE 1:
> In the case of me changing my MAC address using my paid-for ISP, I agree
> with you (now) that changing the MAC address provides no additive privacy.
>
> CASE 2:
> In the case of a NetZero free ISP, I see from your arguments that changing
> the MAC address still doesn't provide additive privacy.
>
> CASE 3:
> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot. Wouldn't a
temporary
> change of the MAC address provide additional privacy?

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:50:16 -0800, Dana wrote:

>> CASE 3:
>> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot.
>> Wouldn't a prior change of the MAC address add privacy?
>
> For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
> As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC,
> that cannot be changed by you.

The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?) bit
on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the burned-in MAC
or a modified MAC.

So, as far as I know, the only thing they can tell is that you're not using
the original MAC ... but that in and of itself doesn't give them the
original MAC (AFAIK).

The problem with this assumption (of the change bit) is that means the MAC
address is NOT the FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF we think it is because that doesn't
allow for the change bit. This change-bit part confuses me.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:33:01 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
>> Assuming a free hotspot ...
>> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
>> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No.

Hi Warren Oates,
I think this particular question is still out for a reasonable jury to
decide.

My hypothesis (needs to stand the test of reason) is that all "they" know
about the computer and owner is the (bogus) MAC address and the fact that
the bogus MAC address is not the original burned-in MAC address (due to a
presumed change bit being flipped that you can not unflip once you change
the MAC address). They don't have any other identifying information (other
than the content of the messages sent by this means).

One other question I have is what happens if you change the MAC address
back.

Does than 'unchange' the change bit on the MAC address?

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:01:35 -0800, Dana wrote:
> What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of your
> DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find a
> way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
> probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.

Hi Dana,

We're getting somewhere here. I'm sorry I was so thick as to not understand
prior comments about changing the MAC address not adding privacy under most
curcumstances. But, I still think under the free hotspot circumstance,
changing the MAC address is additive to privacy.

I can answer your concerns above - having done it many times .
yes
no
maybe

Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/mac.../macmakeup.asp

No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
nothing bad has happened).

Maybe there is a change bit (I read that somewhere) in the MAC address so
the ISP and the hotel lobby both know you changed the MAC address. In the
case of the ISP, they never had your original MAC address (since I changed
it looong ago before joining my current ISP) ... so all they ever had were
the random MAC addresses but they can associate some of those random MAC
addresses to me so I must be careful not to reuse them.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:09:52 GMT, Aluxe wrote:
> Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/mac.../macmakeup.asp
>
> No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> nothing bad has happened).

Oh my!

I finally understand I've been changing the wrong MAC address in the case
of the ISP because in this home-networking case, I am behind a ROUTER.

So, it's the router's MAC that I should have been changing.

Ouch. I was dumb. I was wasting my time.

I don't know how to change the linksys router's MAC yet. But, even so, I
understand that in CASE 1 (home ISP), changing the MAC isn't additive to
privacy so it's a moot point.

But, if I did change the router's MAC, it _might_ wreak havoc with the ISP
as you noted (I would assume not though as you can change routers all you
want and it shouldn't bother the ISP).

I am learning from you all!
THANKS

"Warren Oates" <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:453610a7$0$5595$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> In article <1p84s1mfmy7i6$.1t0zyeu0thojv$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> Aluxe <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > QUESTION:
> > Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> > brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
>
> No.

That was my point about the MAC. His changing it made no change in
identifying him, if someone really wanted too.

> --
> W. Oates
> Teal'c: He is concealing something.
> O'Neil: Like what?
> Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:15rr9bxve2jce.1k78vxx9eshov$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:33:01 -0400, Warren Oates wrote:
> >> Assuming a free hotspot ...
> >> Did changing the MAC address make it a wee bit harder for the big bad
> >> brother authorities to identify me should they so desire?
> >
> > No.
>
> Hi Warren Oates,
> I think this particular question is still out for a reasonable jury to
> decide.
>
> My hypothesis (needs to stand the test of reason) is that all "they" know
> about the computer and owner is the (bogus) MAC address and the fact that
> the bogus MAC address is not the original burned-in MAC address (due to a
> presumed change bit being flipped that you can not unflip once you change
> the MAC address). They don't have any other identifying information (other
> than the content of the messages sent by this means).

This really is now getting into computer forensics, kind of interesting.

>
> One other question I have is what happens if you change the MAC address
> back.
>
> Does than 'unchange' the change bit on the MAC address?

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1v7ug0nbbi6a1.12l9iu6bomjvs$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:50:16 -0800, Dana wrote:
>
> >> CASE 3:
> >> However, what if there was a free hotel lobby hotspot.
> >> Wouldn't a prior change of the MAC address add privacy?
> >
> > For now I am saying yes. I need to look into this myself.
> > As you know you have a burned in address on your NIC,
> > that cannot be changed by you.
>
> The only minor gotcha I know about is there is apparently a (hidden?) bit
> on the MAC address which indicates whether you are using the burned-in MAC
> or a modified MAC.

I have needed to change MAC's for a couple of systems I worked on. I never
really dug that deep, I only knew that it was called a software MAC when I
would direct the PC to use the MAC I gave it, instead of the burned in
address. I read what Warren wrote, and I am now going to dig into that.
>
> So, as far as I know, the only thing they can tell is that you're not
using
> the original MAC ... but that in and of itself doesn't give them the
> original MAC (AFAIK).

No, if you are using the changed MAC address, they will not see the burned
in address, which really only identifies the NIC.
>
> The problem with this assumption (of the change bit) is that means the MAC
> address is NOT the FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF we think it is because that doesn't
> allow for the change bit. This change-bit part confuses me.

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1t5h7zv6bwftc$.5wot8fcjgjwh.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:01:35 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > What you want to find out is if there is a way to change the address of
your
> > DSL or cable modem, and that I have no idea about. Of course if you find
a
> > way, I am pretty sure the ISP will not like that very much and would
> > probably shut of your connection, hence you would gain nada.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> We're getting somewhere here. I'm sorry I was so thick as to not
understand
> prior comments about changing the MAC address not adding privacy under
most
> curcumstances. But, I still think under the free hotspot circumstance,
> changing the MAC address is additive to privacy.

Besides the change bit, I tend to agree with the hotspot.
But you would have to change the address before an initial connection.
>
> I can answer your concerns above - having done it many times .
> yes
> no
> maybe
>
> Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/mac.../macmakeup.asp
>
> No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> nothing bad has happened).

Correct because they have no idea how many computers you may own or have
access to. They give you the login information, not a paticular device.

>
> Maybe there is a change bit (I read that somewhere) in the MAC address so
> the ISP and the hotel lobby both know you changed the MAC address. In the
> case of the ISP, they never had your original MAC address (since I changed
> it looong ago before joining my current ISP) ... so all they ever had were
> the random MAC addresses but they can associate some of those random MAC
> addresses to me so I must be careful not to reuse them.

This topic has really opened up some interesting issues.
>
>
>
>
>

"Aluxe" <aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:efkny47u3i04$.17uacptedm8qb.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:09:52 GMT, Aluxe wrote:
> > Yes you can change your MAC address (it's trivial).
> > MacMakeUp changes the MAC address on a Windows computer.
> > http://www.gorlani.com/publicprj/mac.../macmakeup.asp
> >
> > No, the ISP doesn't care one twit (I've done it hundreds of times and
> > nothing bad has happened).
>
> Oh my!
>
> I finally understand I've been changing the wrong MAC address in the case
> of the ISP because in this home-networking case, I am behind a ROUTER.
>
> So, it's the router's MAC that I should have been changing.

But even at that, if you are doing this from a DSL or cable modem or dial up
internet account, you have to log in. So once you log in with your account
info, whatever mac address you use will be associated to your name.
The only way around that would be to set up an account with a different
name.
That may work for awhile with a dial up account, but with a DSL or cable
Modem that is actually kind of placed at a paticular residence, just
changing your name may not hide the identity.
>
> Ouch. I was dumb. I was wasting my time.
>
> I don't know how to change the linksys router's MAC yet. But, even so, I
> understand that in CASE 1 (home ISP), changing the MAC isn't additive to
> privacy so it's a moot point.

You may want to post this question to the hacker type groups
>
> But, if I did change the router's MAC, it _might_ wreak havoc with the ISP
> as you noted (I would assume not though as you can change routers all you
> want and it shouldn't bother the ISP).

Not your router, but the cable modem or DSL modem, that is the last address
prior to hitting the network, so that would be the address to change, but
then that is usually your providers equipment, and they would probably be a
tad upset about you getting in there making changes like that.
>
> I am learning from you all!
> THANKS

Gotta add my 2 cents to this:

You use many real world examples to try and justify what you are trying
to protect. But changing your IP is not really the same thing as
closing the bathroom stall door as you put it. It more like just moving
over to the next stall.

Closing the blinds, closing the door, closing your windows, locking
your car. All firewall similes.
Going out and moving your car a couple of spots over, that would be
changing your IP.

Leaving your purse in the shopping cart. vs
Leaving your purse in the shopping cart in one aisle over. Same end
effect as changing your IP. The person that wants the purse only has to
walk one more aisle over. Don't know about you, but that doesn't take
much effort if I want that purse.

Now locking your doors and rolling up your windows (firewall) vs
locking your doors and rolling up your windows and moving your car over
a couple of spots in the same parking lot (firewall and changing IP)
added nothing for security. It just means the person looking just had
to move over a couple of spots. Not only is this useless but it doesn't
take real amount of time. Once again, walking that extra little bit if
I want your car or its contents isn't going to do anything.

Also, you grabbed another posters information earlier to show the ease
to retrieve informaiton. Question is, was this information that the
poster had freely posted before? I find it safe to assume that if I
were to post it, then people are going to know about it. If I don't
want people to know it, I don't post it. So really, to say you've
discovered something about a person when the person sat there and told
a large group of people isn't much of an acomplishment.

Since I am posting from a static address, people are going to be able
to tell where I work. Good for them. Here I'll make it easy: I work for
a company called PAMI.
Now people know and will be able to look it up for a long time to come.
Does it matter? Of course not. Had it mattered I wouldn't have posted
it.
So if you do not people knowing were you work or such information,
don't post it.