Re: Privacy/Security: How to change my IP address daily or weekly on DSL

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 04:18:39 GMT, in alt.internet.wireless , Aluxe
<aluxelocochon@yahoo.com> wrote:

>If I kept the same IP address for, say, a year, wouldn't ALL my posts in
>that year have the same IP address on it?

Yes, but so what?
>
>If anyone wanted to gather up all my posts

From where? Which database do you plan to extract this from? Which ISP
do you know with infinite retention?

>(no matter what name or
>newsreader I used), wouldn't keeping the same IP address make that task
>trivial?

Lets be clear here: when you post to usenet it is broadcast public
information. You retain copyright, but anyone can read it, at any
time, in any location, for any purpose. If you find it creepy that
people can gather up your postings, you need to stop posting to public
fora. You don't have either the right or the power to control what
other people do with public information.

>Sort of like someone gathering up all my snail mail and reading it if they
>felt like it without having to bother opening the letters.

No, utterly different. Snail mail is NOT a broadcast medium, its a
private communication.

A better comparison would be with writing a magazine article. You
retain copyright, but anyone, anywhere, can read the magazine and if
they care to, snip out and keep all your articles forever. If you find
that creepy, you have to stop writing for magazines.
--
Mark McIntyre

> >Just like I pull the curtain shut when I dress in the dressing room, I
> >enjoy my privacy even when I try on clothes.

Another poor comparison. A firewall would be like the curtain actually
preventing people from looking into your dressing room. Changing your
IP --> You just move to another spot over and change there instead.
Changing your IP serves no purpose in terms of protection past a good
firewall. Without a good firewall then your IP is the least of your
problems.

Now just relax, setup some real security if you don't already have some
and don't worry about what your IP is. And as I said before: anything
someone gets off a newsgroup that you posted was obviously something
that you were not concerned about people getting or you wouldn't have
posted it to begin with.

On 18 Oct 2006 19:05:09 -0700, I_AM_Raptor@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>Just like I pull the curtain shut when I dress in the dressing room, I
>>>enjoy my privacy even when I try on clothes.
>
> Another poor comparison.

Hi I_AM_Raptor,

I do appreciate your honing of our analogies. With analogies, we can
communicate. For example, I've shown (I hope) with my basic analogies that
not everyone who desires a base modicum of privacy is to be automatically
considered overly paranoid.

Everyone is confusing one key point. I am not trying to hide from my ISP by
changing my IP address! I agree even before the first word was posted that
the IPS knows who I am at all moments (heck, I pay the bill with a check
that has my name and address on it). Anyone who insists on repeating that
changing the IP address doesn't hide me from the ISP is just plain off
base.

It's sort of like having an (IP) address on your driver license and then
changing it. You're never going to hide from the police by changing your
address on your driver's license but the local store that wrote it down
when you cashed your check now has a harder time casually finding you from
a simple (and all too common) database search.

That's all I was trying to do by changing my router's IP address (which
turns out to be the IP address attached as the NNTP posting host no matter
what I do).

If someone technical here can show me how to CHANGE MY NNTP POSTING HOST,
well then, THAT would be an accomplishment worthy of the discussion!

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:40:07 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
>>If anyone wanted to gather up all my posts
>
> From where? Which database do you plan to extract this from? Which ISP
> do you know with infinite retention?

Uh. Google Groups http://groups.google.com

I see my posts dating back to 1990 (some of which I am embarrassed about as
they used my maiden name and my young kids don't even know I was previously
married).

Luckily I haven't posted using my real name in more than a decade, but, I
can still easily find all my alt.personals type posts dating back to the
early nineties in about a nanosecond when I was still married to my first
husband.

Don't you realize each and every usenet post archived by google has the
NNTP posting host and my NNTP posting host uniquely identifies me, whether
I like it or not. If I had kept the same IP address, then all those posts
can be tied together by my kids and my spouse and by some kook out there
(you?).

I just want to post without having a connection to earlier posts that even
a grade school child could follow. It's just a little additive privacy that
is so simple to accomplish if I could only figure out a software way to
tell the router to dial back into the PPPoE connection.

Aluxe wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:09:21 +0100, Greg Hennessy wrote:
> >>As an added measure of privacy & security, I like to change my IP address
> >>approximately two or three times a week.
> >
> > A pointless waste of time and effort, giving you neither privacy or
> > security.
>
> All security is pointless if you think your way.
> There are big things you can do to raise security and little things.
>
> Big things are obvious (like locking your car doors or not doing personal
> email at work).
>
> But, little security measures add up too.

Don't forget to modulate your shield frequencies.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:25:01 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> You can't search usenet for IPs.

Hi Mark McIntyre,

Huh? Of course you can. You're pretty exasperating to converse with.

For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
alt.personals (since my NNTP posting host is actually my router's IP
address).

If I can do that in half a minute, a script kiddie can do thousands of
those kind of searches in that same minute.

Can't you?

"#2 Aluxe" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:m15nlb3pua0h$.17k8fg61f2j4l$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:25:01 +0100, Mark McIntyre wrote:
> > You can't search usenet for IPs.
>
> Hi Mark McIntyre,
>
> Huh? Of course you can. You're pretty exasperating to converse with.
>
> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
> alt.personals (since my NNTP posting host is actually my router's IP
> address).

Did you have the same router 15 years ago?

>
> If I can do that in half a minute, a script kiddie can do thousands of
> those kind of searches in that same minute.
>
> Can't you?

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:03:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
>> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
>> alt.personals

> Did you have the same router 15 years ago?

Hi Dana,

Now you're finally agreeing with me!

It's precisely because I had a DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS 15 years ago that we
can't easily collect all my posts from then to now.

"#2 Aluxe" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1n8hyc3gjcqee.1gaadrp3z6wuu$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:03:26 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> For example, in the next thirty seconds, I can go back fifteen years on
> >> google to find the exact IP address I used on a particular post to
> >> alt.personals
>
> > Did you have the same router 15 years ago?
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Now you're finally agreeing with me!

Well no, not really.
I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to increase
your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.

>
> It's precisely because I had a DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS 15 years ago that we
> can't easily collect all my posts from then to now.

If someone wanted to, they could. and that is the point people are trying to
make, more than likely you would not be a target of such people. Unless of
course you are a politician like Foley found out.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:49:57 -0800, Dana wrote:
> I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to increase
> your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.

Hi Dana,
I think we already agreed otherwise in a few cases (did we not?).

For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy. (Did
we not?)

Also, you tacitly underscored my point that changing the IP address of my
router definately makes it harder for someone to easily connect my posts to
alt.personals vs my separate posts to comp.security.firewalls vs my posts
to Bell Laboratories. As such, the time it takes to change the IP address
is also additive to privacy. (Did we not?)

It's important that we agree or agree to disagree on these two points:
POINT 1: Changing MAC address is additive to privacy in public hotspots.
POINT 2: Changing IP address is additive to privacy in those cases where
the user's NNTP posting host is their IP address.

This whole thread basically leaves us with three technical questions:
1. Does the MAC really have a bit which indicates it has been changed?
(I think it does ... but I await confirmation from the group)
2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?
(I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)
3. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on software demand?
(I am following instructions previously posted to see if that works)

This should be a simple technical discussion ... not an emotional paranoia
discussion.

"#2 Aluxe" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1tn4zhjqngy9n$.1ee15h88ztsz3.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 21:49:57 -0800, Dana wrote:
> > I still say changing your IP or MAC on your PC is doing nothing to
increase
> > your privacy from those who really want to dig into your life.
>
> Hi Dana,
> I think we already agreed otherwise in a few cases (did we not?).
>
> For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
> refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
> address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy.
(Did
> we not?)

This is still up in the air. I have never used a public hotspot, so I do not
know if there is some kind of registration process, even if it is free.

>
> Also, you tacitly underscored my point that changing the IP address of my
> router definately makes it harder for someone to easily connect my posts
to
> alt.personals vs my separate posts to comp.security.firewalls vs my posts
> to Bell Laboratories. As such, the time it takes to change the IP address
> is also additive to privacy. (Did we not?)

No. You made the remark about going back 15 years, so I as a joke asked if
you had the same router 15 years ago, knowing full well you were probably on
a dial up at 2400, or 9600 speed. I remember those days as well.
>
> It's important that we agree or agree to disagree on these two points:
> POINT 1: Changing MAC address is additive to privacy in public hotspots.

If they are pay services: NO
if they are free I want to say yes, but I need to see if there is a
registration process, so I am going with a maybe.

> POINT 2: Changing IP address is additive to privacy in those cases where
> the user's NNTP posting host is their IP address.

No, as there are other ways just as easy to track your newsgroup post, all
one needs to do is look at your path.
>
> This whole thread basically leaves us with three technical questions:
> 1. Does the MAC really have a bit which indicates it has been changed?

Yes and no. There is a global/local bit wich tells if you are using the
burned in address (global) or a locally assigned (you make one up) address.

> (I think it does ... but I await confirmation from the group)
> 2. How can I eliminate the NNTP Posting Host line in my nntp headers?

Your reader may allow you to modify your headers.
I am doing nothing to mine, so either OE does not send it, or my news server
is stripping it off.

> (I think it can be eliminated as Dana and Mark seemed to have done so)
> 3. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on software demand?
> (I am following instructions previously posted to see if that works)
>
> This should be a simple technical discussion ... not an emotional paranoia
> discussion.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 22:29:08 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> For example, I think we have established (or at least nobody has reliably
>> refuted) that taking the five seconds to change your wireless card's MAC
>> address before connecting at a public hot spot is additive to privacy.
> (Did we not?)
>
> This is still up in the air. I have never used a public hotspot, so I do not
> know if there is some kind of registration process, even if it is free.

Hi Dana,
I can definately say I have posted from public wireless hot spots which do
NOT require any registration process whatsoever.

Many hotels, for example, have free public wireless access in their
lobbies.

Of course, some hotspots do have a registration process ... the clincher
being their need to obtain money from you (generally by credit card) ...
which we all know identifies you to your social security number which
basically provides your whole life history to almost anyone who can use a
telephone to ask.

So, I think we've definitively established the following:

a. Does changing the MAC address leave a tell-tale change bit?
Yes. But that in and of itself is not subtractive to privacy.

b. Is changing a MAC at a public hotspot additive to privacy?
Probably.
Especially if the public hot spot requires no other registration.

c. Is removal of the NNTP Posting Host additive to privacy?
Maybe. I certainly believe so; but others are not so sure
(however, they are certainly hung up on the ISP knowing who
we are which was never the question so their answers are
suspect once you consider they are answering a different
question than that which was posed).

Given that I think we have determined the above to as great a degree as we
can (bearing in mind the hugely emotional aspect of some people's
postings), I think I'm left with determining the following.

1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
(I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)

2. How can I force the router to dial into the PPPoE on demand?
(I'm testing one helpful sugestion as we speak.)

3. If you change the MAC address & change it back ... is the tattletale bit
still set?
(???)

"#2 Aluxe" <nottelling@hotmail.com>
wrote in message news:1x0ddc5p4kf6z.1mldsw3zfaym2$.dlg@40tude.net.. .

> If someone technical here can show me how to
>CHANGE MY NNTP POSTING HOST,
> well then, THAT would be an accomplishment worthy of the discussion!

Thats EASY !
Change your gateway's IP address,
as that is what your NTTP server see as your NNTP posting host.
The gateway IP, will be your "point of contact" IP address, for the
device terminating your ISP to yourself.

End of discussion! ;-)

/HC

btw:
I assume your ISP provides you with a dynamic IP, using DHCP.
Most DHCP servers will remember your MACadress, and offer you
tha same IP adress again if you simply switch off/on, you will have to
_release _ your current IP, and /request/ a new IP for it to change.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:13:13 +0200, Harald Andersen wrote:
>> If someone technical here can show me how to
>>CHANGE MY NNTP POSTING HOST,
>> well then, THAT would be an accomplishment worthy of the discussion!
>
> Thats EASY !
> Change your gateway's IP address,
> as that is what your NTTP server see as your NNTP posting host.
> The gateway IP, will be your "point of contact" IP address, for the
> device terminating your ISP to yourself.

Hi Harald Andersen,

If by "gateway", you mean "modem" (I have DHCP DSL PPPoE), then that is
what we were doing all along way before this thread ever started.

I have a new IP address today but the last test didn't work (changing the
"connect on demand" setting. But, I might have performed the test wrong so
I'll try again tonight.

If you know how to "change your gateway's address" without powering down
the router ... that would answer the original question nicely.

> 1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
> (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)

If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
stream. That's the underlying technology, and if you do that, you can
spoof any news connection you like. In the "old" days, that's the way
we all needed to get our news into the queue. The only difference is
that most posters worked for companies or went to schools who did that
step for them (i.e. that was part of the system administrator's job).
In recent years, ISPs have taken up that role. So, when you buy an
AOL or NetZero or Charter or Verizon account, they have the System
Administrator that does that job. Moreover, things like POP3 and NNTP
have allowed them to easily extend that access onto the typical users
Windows desktop. However, the old way, didn't go away. It's still
there.

However, you are not likely to get the privacy desire both for free
and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
doesn't provide any real value.

I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
interested enough to find out. Moreover, if I did find something
interesting you posted on alt.personals, I wouldn't go looking for
other postings on the internet to locate more information about you.
That would be slow inefficient amd mostly pointless.

In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
artifact that is at most mildly interesting.

If you want more privacy and more security, you can get it by paying
for it or by doing "hard work" and learning the way the network
actually works. And to do so, you really should get yourself an "open
source" platform (e.g. linux or netbsd or ...) and configure it
yourself.

I have done both. I don't read news or mail on my own computer, but
instead login to a machine with professional administrators that take
care of the security. That way, I don't get viruses (at least not by
that avenue). I also have my own linux box where I can actually study
how things work, and change them to work the way I want. If I wanted
to masquerade at someone else at some other site, having my own box
and understanding it, would allow me to do it. However, I can't
imagine why I would want to be someone else (or even be anonymous).
The only people who I don't want contacting me, don't contact me by
knowing who I am, they are telemarketeers and spammers, who are simply
sending bulk junk to everyone. Those who know who I am rarely send
me useless stuff.

That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
sort of relationship I would presume), then you would be much better
paying more money (or doing more work) and getting some real
anonimity. You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
your IP to make it worthwhile. That's like taking a shower in a
public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
over is "more private". Yeah, right....

By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
hotspot all the time. Most hotspots don't preserve MAC address
information over extended periods of time--it isn't useful information
to keep. No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
"important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
its own right). And, in either of those cases, the interested people
will come after YOU, not after some MAC or IP address.

If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.

So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead. If you give me reason
to track you down, it won't even slow me down. The real information
to find you isn't there (even if it is a posting that gets me first
interested), and I wouldn't bother looking there.

If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

************************************************** ***************************
Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Chris F Clark" <cfc@shell01.TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:sddr6x42rdf.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com...
> > 1. How can I remove the NNTP Posting Host from my posts?
> > (I'm installing OE and Agent as we speak to test one hypothesis.)
>
> If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
> yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
> cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
> stream. That's the underlying technology, and if you do that, you can
> spoof any news connection you like. In the "old" days, that's the way
> we all needed to get our news into the queue. The only difference is
> that most posters worked for companies or went to schools who did that
> step for them (i.e. that was part of the system administrator's job).
> In recent years, ISPs have taken up that role. So, when you buy an
> AOL or NetZero or Charter or Verizon account, they have the System
> Administrator that does that job. Moreover, things like POP3 and NNTP
> have allowed them to easily extend that access onto the typical users
> Windows desktop. However, the old way, didn't go away. It's still
> there.
>
> However, you are not likely to get the privacy desire both for free
> and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
> your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
> doesn't provide any real value.
>
> I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
> interested enough to find out. Moreover, if I did find something
> interesting you posted on alt.personals, I wouldn't go looking for
> other postings on the internet to locate more information about you.
> That would be slow inefficient amd mostly pointless.
>
> In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
> addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
> to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
> your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
> NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
> artifact that is at most mildly interesting.
>
> If you want more privacy and more security, you can get it by paying
> for it or by doing "hard work" and learning the way the network
> actually works. And to do so, you really should get yourself an "open
> source" platform (e.g. linux or netbsd or ...) and configure it
> yourself.
>
> I have done both. I don't read news or mail on my own computer, but
> instead login to a machine with professional administrators that take
> care of the security. That way, I don't get viruses (at least not by
> that avenue). I also have my own linux box where I can actually study
> how things work, and change them to work the way I want. If I wanted
> to masquerade at someone else at some other site, having my own box
> and understanding it, would allow me to do it. However, I can't
> imagine why I would want to be someone else (or even be anonymous).
> The only people who I don't want contacting me, don't contact me by
> knowing who I am, they are telemarketeers and spammers, who are simply
> sending bulk junk to everyone. Those who know who I am rarely send
> me useless stuff.
>
> That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
> sort of relationship I would presume), then you would be much better
> paying more money (or doing more work) and getting some real
> anonimity. You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
> your IP to make it worthwhile. That's like taking a shower in a
> public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
> over is "more private". Yeah, right....
>
> By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
> to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
> hotspot all the time. Most hotspots don't preserve MAC address
> information over extended periods of time--it isn't useful information
> to keep. No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
> "important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
> its own right). And, in either of those cases, the interested people
> will come after YOU, not after some MAC or IP address.
>
> If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
> has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
> instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
> having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.
>
> So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
> thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead. If you give me reason
> to track you down, it won't even slow me down. The real information
> to find you isn't there (even if it is a posting that gets me first
> interested), and I wouldn't bother looking there.
>
> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
> Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.
>
> Hope this helps,
> -Chris
>

Very well said Chris.

>
************************************************** **************************
*
> Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
> Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
> 23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
> Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:38:04 -0400, Chris F Clark wrote:

Hi Chris Clark,
Wow. Even though you didn't quite answer the specific question, you DID go
into a thorough detail on how to do the job better in a variety of ways.

I fully agree with almost all your points; and I partially agree with the
rest as explained below (for others to benefit from the conversation).

> If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
> yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a
> cooperative site that will forward your newsfeed into the usenet
> stream.

Understood. But, as you noted, that's a LOT more effort than just
unplugging the router momentarily (which is what I do today to accomplish
my goal). Actually, if I just found a router with an on/off switch, THAT
would be work just fine too! I didn't know that was a desired feature when
I originally purchased my Linksys router. In the future, a basic on/off
switch is on my list of router niceties.

> that's why people have been so "down" on your idea of changing your IP.
> The system isn't setup to do that.
> It doesn't provide any real value.

I only partially agree with you here. For you, and for most of the people
who posted, changing the IP assigned to you provides no value. But, for me,
where my ISP reports to the whole world my assigned IP address in every
post, it does provide additive value for the amount of work involved
(currently that work is merely unplugging the router momentarily after a
night's rest).

> I don't know what you have posted on alt.personals and am not
> interested enough to find out.

I don't actually post on alt.personals, by the way. That was just an
example to explain the "why" I was asking how to force the router to dial
into my PPPoE connection on demand. I didn't want to get into a discussion
of why ... it's all the nice people who responded who insisted we discuss
the why before we discuss the how. So, I told them why by using analogies
(some automatically assumed I was a criminal, paranoid, or worse!) :) LOL.

I think we've discussed the "why" to death ... if someone doesn't
understand the why by now (yes, I know you understood), then they most
likely won't ever get to the how (which is a much simpler question, albeit
non emotional).


> In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
> addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
> to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
> your router (are you sure of that?

Yup. We proved it time and time again. Notice each day my nntp posting host
changes? It is 100% correlated with the IP address my ISP assigns me. It
doesn't matter which software I used (I tested Forte Free Agent, 40Tude
dialog, and Outlook Express). If anyone KNOWs the trick to tell the ISP to
not use my IP address as my NNTP posting host ... THAT would be a
conversation worthy of having!

> If you want more privacy ... you can get it by paying
> for it or by doing "hard work"

Or, I can just tell my router to dial into PPPoE every morning :)

> That being said, if you really do post on alt.personals (seeking some
> sort of relationship I would presume), thn you would be much better
> paying more money (or doing more ework) and getting some real
> anonimity.

Again. These were just examples. Do folks really think someone who wishes
to hide their IP address is going to actually provide "real" targeting
information to answer a wholly unrelated, yet still very personal, set of
errant questions of why I want my router to dial into a PPPoE account on
demand?

The made-up examples were illustrative of the only point I had which was
that all my posts today under any name can be collected by the IP address
for me (but not for most of you).

> You are not going to get enough anonymity from changing
> your IP to make it worthwhile.

At the moment, the "cost" of changing my IP address is momentarily
rebooting the router (sometimes it takes a few cycles). You are precisely
agreeing with me in that I am trying to get that "effort" down to zero by
intelligent setup of the router (to make it dial into the PPPoE account on
demand).

I think I've set the router to do that so we are testing it now (it failed
the first test, but, my test may have been flawed as I had shut down the
modem).

> That's like taking a shower in a
> public square fountain and then deciding that the next public square
> over is "more private". Yeah, right....

It's more like the ISP is putting my name tag (i.e., my assigned DHCP IP
address) over my shower in a very public place where everyone else is
taking a shower ... but their (and your) ISP doesn't put their/your name
tag over their/your shower so folks are not concerned with my problem with
it because they don't have the same problem.

> By the way, changing your MAC address at a public hotspot isn't going
> to add that much to your privacy--especially if you go to the same
> hotspot all the time.

I think we've established that this is additive to security. Of course, we
all know that a security camera can record that you were there and that
someone can walk by and watch what you're doing (think tempest) ... but
what we were talking about specifically was the PACKET traffic.

I think we've reliably established the only thing that the PACKET traffic
reveals about you (other than the content which is likely more revealing
overall in a global sense) is that you CHANGED your MAC address.


> No one cares that it is you posting something, unless you are
> "important" in your own right (or what you are posting is important in
> its own right).

Thousands of identity theft victims believed as you do. I understand your
point, and you understand mine, so we can just agree to disagree that
setting up a router to automatically dial into a PPPoE account on demand is
pointless (I believe it isn't; you believe it is).


> If you haven't noticed, most of the technical content in this thread,
> has not been about giving you ways to achieve what you want, but
> instead trying to explain why what you think you want is not worth
> having, because it doesn't get you what you really want.

Sigh. You do understand the situation well. So do I. It all boils down to
the shower-curtain analogy. THEY don't have THEIR assigned IP address on
their shower stall in the public shower; I do.

That makes my situation different than most of theirs. I know you
understand that. But they (seemingly) fail to understand that; yet, in
their willingness to help (which I do appreciate) they try to put me in
their shower slippers instead of the other way around.

> So, if you want to change your MAC address and post from a hot-spot
> thinking you will be more anonymous, go ahead.

It will. For the five seconds it takes to change the MAC address, the
security is additive and provides good ROI.

> If you give me reason to track you down, it won't even slow me down.

Please realize I never said it would. All you'd need to do is tempest
monitoring or security cameras or food receipts or interviewing the hotel
employees, etc. I KNOW that. That was NEVER the issue. Why people can't get
that in their minds (yes, I know you understand), is beyond me. All I was
asking on the MAC address question was about the tattletale bit.

Some people, sounding very knowledgeable, say there is "no such thing";
while others, sounding just as knowledgeable sare "there is such a thing".
From what I read (and posted the references), there is such a thing but I
asked the jury to help me here as we already determined changing the MAC
address prior to initating a public hotspot connection IS additive.

> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> If you want to be read, then you do things that make you easy to find.
> Trying to be anonymous and public at the same time is an oxymoron.

I disagree with this whole set of statements (including the first line).

You don't just want to be read ... you want the answers (what good is being
read without getting the answer????).

If you want the answer to the question, then you ask good questions and you
respond promptly, accurately, and courteously to all questions that try to
flesh out the problem ... and then you diligently try the viable suggested
solutions.

Can anyone say I am not?

In summary ... I asked many times how to force the router to dial into the
PPPoE account on demand ... and I am in the middle of tests from the one or
two answers which provided how to do that ... I hope these tests work ...
I'll know tomorrow morning after the router and modem have been down for a
few hours.

My IP adddress is current: NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.110.16.49

Tomorrow, if it's different ... then we will have succeeded and I will
thank you all for your kind help!

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:01:48 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> Very well said Chris.

Hi Dana,

Even though Chris didn't offer a viable solution that was easier or less
expensive than simply rebooting the router each morning ...

He DID supply a thoughtful and comprehensive explanation of why people are
so completely against me trying to force my router to dial into the PPPoE
connection upon demand in order to not have the same IP address broadcast
to everyone on every posting I provide.

We both could tell, just from his speech, that he was an educated
intelligent person who had an opinion on the matter which he courteously
supplied ... and which I appreciate ... as I need his (and your) help in
order to resolve my technical dilemma.

Thank you all for your very kind help ... I hope (after all this), we
finally do figure out how to get the router to dial into the DHCP PPPoE
account on demand!

Well, it seems you have solved your problem. Whether you can automate
that solution is another question. I have a "similar" problem, that I
use a slightly different solution to, and which may guide you to a
better solution. Sometimes my modem gets stuck and needs to be
rebooted (and when that happens, you need to power it and the router
off). Therefore, I put the modem on a surge protect (power strip)
with a convenient button right below my screen. If things get stuck,
I trun it off, wait for 30 seconds and turn it back on. Viola.

Now, you can also get things (power controllers) like that, where your
computer can send commands to turn the thing off-and-on (often called
X10 devices). I don't know much about them, but I bet you could get
one of those to power your router and/or modem and thus have your
computer turn the router off and on once per night and then check the
ip address and do it again, until it got a new one. Now, your
shower-stall has a changing IP address.

I still don't think anyone is ever going to look at your IP address,
but I'm pretty much on the opposite end of paranoid, despite having
closely know people whose identities were stolen--and that's because
I'm pretty certain that their identities were not stolen by using the
same name over and over again, but by other forms of carelessness.

I lock my car when I go to work or the mall, but not when it is at
home in my garage, even though there is "only" an electric garage door
opener protecting it there. My wife locks her car even at home. That
helps her sleep better.

Hope this helps,
-Chris

************************************************** ***************************
Chris Clark Internet : compres@world.std.com
Compiler Resources, Inc. Web Site : http://world.std.com/~compres
23 Bailey Rd voice : (508) 435-5016
Berlin, MA 01503 USA fax : (978) 838-0263 (24 hours)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"#2 Aluxe" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jj21gs0iv5a6.l0a59e77iqs7$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:01:48 -0800, Dana wrote:
> >> If you are posting on the internet, presumably you want to be read.
> > Very well said Chris.
>
> Hi Dana,
>
> Even though Chris didn't offer a viable solution that was easier or less
> expensive than simply rebooting the router each morning ...
>
> He DID supply a thoughtful and comprehensive explanation of why people are
> so completely against me trying to force my router to dial into the PPPoE
> connection upon demand in order to not have the same IP address broadcast
> to everyone on every posting I provide.
>
> We both could tell, just from his speech, that he was an educated
> intelligent person who had an opinion on the matter which he courteously
> supplied ... and which I appreciate ... as I need his (and your) help in
> order to resolve my technical dilemma.
>
> Thank you all for your very kind help ... I hope (after all this), we
> finally do figure out how to get the router to dial into the DHCP PPPoE
> account on demand!

It is not that people do not want to help, it is the issue that the solution
you are looking for, will really not help you in your goal.
Changing your IP or MAC address on your computer hooked to the DSL
connection you change will not add to your privacy.
As Chris said, using Unix/Linux (and even windows, just takes a lot more
work), and bypassing an ISP (in other words you directly connect to the
internet), make it a lot easier to hide your identity from those looking.
You would still not be invisible, but it would take more work to find out
who you are.

For you to achieve your goal of posting in privacy on the internet, you will
have to pay a service provider that offers that service.
What they do is they do not forward your headers (your nntp posting host
line, etc) and instead use theirs, that basically hides where you post from.
Or you can get a linux OS and a news reader that allows you to modify your
headers. But then to really hide yourself you would have to read up on the
NNTP RFC
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc977.txt
In another post you mentioned ROI, well changing your IP and MAC in this
situation does not give you a decent ROI, instead it is more like you bought
some tap water from a snake oil salesmen.
You keep going back to you want your router to reconnect via your PPOE to
get a new IP address. Well that IP address will never be yours to begin
with. If someone searches that IP address, they will find it belongs to your
ISP. They might get close to your geographical area, but that is about it.
If people want to search through the news groups to find your posts, there
are more ways to do that than just using the IP address or NNTP posting
host.
So if your goal is to be able to post anonymously on the newsgroups, pay the
20 to 30 dollars some providers charge for that service, or use an OS and
news client that will allow you to manipulate your headers.
Another way to remain semi anon, is to post via google groups, I hate saying
that as I find the interface for google groups to be very lacking in
functionality.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:34:12 -0800, Dana wrote:
> Another way to remain semi anon, is to post via google groups, I hate saying
> that as I find the interface for google groups to be very lacking in
> functionality.

Been there. Done that. In my case, google also uses my assigned IP address
as the NNTP posting host. ...

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:34:12 -0800, Dana wrote:
> Changing your IP or MAC address on your computer hooked to the DSL
> connection you change will not add to your privacy.

Hi Dana,

I do very much appreciate your help.
Can we just agree to disagree and move on to the technical question?

Why?
Because most people who opined are NOT in the same situation as I am.
They obviously did not put themselves in my shower slippers.
Some even seemed shocked that my assigned IP address was broadcast on every
one of my usenet nntp posts because theirs wasn't.

Even so, we did discuss some good issues though.

I, for one, DID LEARN from this discussion that my changing of my computer
MAC was pointless (in most cases, but, not in the public hotspot case) and
for that I THANK YOU all heartily for edifying me. I do realize the MAC
changes will NOT be at all additive to privacy and aren't even worth the
price of the free software that I used to change the MAC address.

And, I think some of you learned of the tattletale bit on the MAC address
(although we're waiting for confirmation of same).

I also learned of router settings to keep the connection alive upon demand;
and, I learned that the PC IP address (and MAC) were the wrong focus.

For all this I thank you all!

I think we can just agree to disagree (actually, some of you actually
understand my dilemma and do agree with me so that is gratifying even
though I am trying to keep emotions out of this ... and paranoia :)

Thank you all ... I'll try to concentrate on the one remaining question
which is how to get the router to re-establish the PPPoE connection as
automatically as possible when the modem is powered back on in the morning.

In alt.internet.wireless Chris F Clark <cfc@shell01.theworld.com> wrote:
> If you *really* want to change/remove your NNTP posting host, then get
> yourself a linux server and a real netnews connection and a

It would be simpler to use a public news server that puts its IP address in
that line, wouldn't it? The tracking would still be there, but into a
public mass.

> and with almost no effort. that's why people have been so "down" on
> your idea of changing your IP. The system isn't setup to do that. It
> doesn't provide any real value.

I think there were a lot of reasons why different people were down on the
idea. Mostly because it provides no protection at the time. It is more
like a doubleclick cookie. Over time, tracking the IP address could
provide a trail of crumbs. If that pile of crumbs belongs to
"anyone@isp.com" it isn't so helpful, but if some of the postings from
123.45.67.89 contain personally recognizable information, and none contain
dissuading information, an identity for all of them can be inferred.

> In particular, I wouldn't look by IP address, because most IP
> addresses are not specific to one person, most of them are connected
> to large sites with lots of users. The fact that yours happens to be
> your router (are you sure of that? and certain that there is not one
> NNTP host for your entire ISP--that's how my ISP works), is just an
> artifact that is at most mildly interesting.

In the case of the OP, it does seem to be a pacbell.net dsl IP. That's a
cookie that I might rather avoid, but then I have my .sig with my name...
Aside from Usenet postings, that IP address would be a useful part of
various web sites' collection activities.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

"#3 Aluxe" <aluxe@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lhtlzwhl0etl.pnhihrts7g7e$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:13:13 +0200, Harald Andersen wrote:
>>> If someone technical here can show me how to
>>>CHANGE MY NNTP POSTING HOST,
>>> well then, THAT would be an accomplishment worthy of the discussion!
>>
>> Thats EASY !
>> Change your gateway's IP address,
>> as that is what your NTTP server see as your NNTP posting host.
>> The gateway IP, will be your "point of contact" IP address, for the
>> device terminating your ISP to yourself.
>
> Hi Harald Andersen,
>
> If by "gateway", you mean "modem" (I have DHCP DSL PPPoE), then that
> is
> what we were doing all along way before this thread ever started.
>
> I have a new IP address today but the last test didn't work (changing
> the
> "connect on demand" setting. But, I might have performed the test
> wrong so
> I'll try again tonight.
>
> If you know how to "change your gateway's address" without powering
> down
> the router ... that would answer the original question nicely.

Refresh my memory (as I dont want to re-read the complete thread) :
1 - What is the name/model of your modem ?
2 - What is the name/model of your router ?
3 - Please open a command window, give the command :
"IPCONFIG / ALL" and post the full info it provides.
(This is related to my last paragraph in my first post).


btw:
If you want more "privacy", you might look into this :
http://www.iopus.com/ipig but remember if you use this,
or any other form of proxy, your NNTP server might
want you to autenthificate using username/password.......

/HC

On 2006-10-19, Aluxe <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:34:12 -0800, Dana wrote:
>> Another way to remain semi anon, is to post via google groups, I hate saying
>> that as I find the interface for google groups to be very lacking in
>> functionality.
>
> Been there. Done that. In my case, google also uses my assigned IP address
> as the NNTP posting host. ...

You just need to find a newsserver that doesn't attach the NTTP-posting-host
header. I don't know if there are any open/free newsservers that do that or
that you will need to get an account at some pay server.
You can't make that header dissapear on your side with any software solution.
Posting through some anonymising proxy to an open newsserver would be another
option. The disconnecting/reconnecting in the hope of getting a new IP#
is rather unelegant and will still give you an IP# out of a limited IP-block.

--
<http://rr.www.cistron.nl/> -!- <http://www.rr.dds.nl/>
<http://www.dread.demon.nl/>

On 22 Oct 2006 15:04:14 GMT, Rasta Robert wrote:
> You just need to find a newsserver that doesn't attach the NTTP-posting-host
> header. I don't know if there are any open/free newsservers that do that or
> that you will need to get an account at some pay server.
> You can't make that header dissapear on your side with any software solution.
> Posting through some anonymising proxy to an open newsserver would be another
> option. The disconnecting/reconnecting in the hope of getting a new IP#
> is rather unelegant and will still give you an IP# out of a limited IP-block.

Hi Rasta Robert,
Thank you for your kind advice. Until midway through this thread, I was
unaware that I was basically in a small subset of nntp posters whose
assigned IP address is what is shown in usenet news headers (as opposed to
a tremendously more obscure nntp news server).

Therefore, it became even more imperative for me to change my IP address
daily (notwithstanding the argument that there is only a limited set of IP
addresses which the ISP randomly assigns to me).

The options you suggest are viable ... but alas ... all cost more or are
more work than just powering down the modem at night and then powering up
the modem in the morning and then cycling the router a few seconds later.

If I could only figure out how to get the router to connect back to the ISP
in the morning (which is always after the original IP address has already
been given away) - that would be cost effective and simple.

I think (but I do not know for sure) that this inability for the router to
realize that there is no IP address coming out of the modem, is a bug in
the router. What would we do to prove that is a bug and not just a design
feature? Certainly it's not documented to act that way in the user manual
which implies the router knows when there is no connection to the ISP and
the router will connect upon the next demand to do so.

Seems to me this is a bug in the router.
Can anyone reliably confirm or deny?