Really Bizarre WiFi Network Problems

We are currently on our third wireless base station. First was a
Netgear, next came a Linksys and now we have an Apple Airport Express.
There are three laptops on the network, not all of them on at the same
time. One is an HP Pavilion running XP, and the two others are Apple
Laptops. The problem has been the same with any of the three base
stations. With no rhyme or reason the connection to the internet is
dropped. The broadcast signal from the base station is fine. The
Motorola Surf Board cable modem seems fine and the cable company says
everything tests out fine. When the connection drops sometimes a reset
of the modem and base station gets us back online but sometimes it does
not. Sometimes we have to actually wait hours to get back online. Hard
wiring to the back of the modem always works perfectly. I have changed
the channel that the base station uses. While we have a cordless phone
and microwave oven there is no correlation with them and the problem
and the base station is far from them. I know there are other wireless
networks in the neighborhood but I doubt any of them are broadcasting
on channel three. I have changed the channels around and there doesn't
seem to be any affect regardless of the channel. this is becoming a
major frustration and problem because we are trying to work from home
and rely on the internet to work. Any ideas?? Thanks!

On 31 Oct 2006 12:28:52 -0800, "Jay" <jay_in_az@earthlink.net> wrote in
<1162326532.352197.168820@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>:

>We are currently on our third wireless base station. First was a
>Netgear, next came a Linksys and now we have an Apple Airport Express.
>There are three laptops on the network, not all of them on at the same
>time. One is an HP Pavilion running XP, and the two others are Apple
>Laptops. The problem has been the same with any of the three base
>stations.

Then the base stations are probably not at fault -- look for some
external common factor (e.g., interference).

>With no rhyme or reason the connection to the internet is
>dropped.

Sounds like interference. See tips in wikis below on types and methods
of elimination.

>While we have a cordless phone
>and microwave oven there is no correlation with them and the problem
>and the base station is far from them.

Lots of other possible causes of interference.

>I know there are other wireless
>networks in the neighborhood but I doubt any of them are broadcasting
>on channel three.

3 is an overlapping channel. Only try it if you don't have luck with 1,
6, or 11.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

"Jay" <jay_in_az@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1162326532.352197.168820@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> We are currently on our third wireless base station. First was a
> Netgear, next came a Linksys and now we have an Apple Airport Express.
> There are three laptops on the network, not all of them on at the same
> time. One is an HP Pavilion running XP, and the two others are Apple
> Laptops. The problem has been the same with any of the three base
> stations. With no rhyme or reason the connection to the internet is
> dropped. The broadcast signal from the base station is fine. The
> Motorola Surf Board cable modem seems fine and the cable company says
> everything tests out fine. When the connection drops sometimes a reset
> of the modem and base station gets us back online but sometimes it does
> not. Sometimes we have to actually wait hours to get back online. Hard
> wiring to the back of the modem always works perfectly. I have changed
> the channel that the base station uses. While we have a cordless phone
> and microwave oven there is no correlation with them and the problem
> and the base station is far from them. I know there are other wireless
> networks in the neighborhood but I doubt any of them are broadcasting
> on channel three. I have changed the channels around and there doesn't
> seem to be any affect regardless of the channel. this is becoming a
> major frustration and problem because we are trying to work from home
> and rely on the internet to work. Any ideas?? Thanks!
>
Beware of your cordless phone. Some of them will transmit signal even when
they are not actually being used to let its base know it is there and
available. Being very local to the users computer and wifi, it very
effectively "blocks" the wifi signal, even though it may seemingly be on a
different channel set. Sometimes the wifi can take a while to resync again.

Alternatively you may well have another source of interference as yet not
identified, wireless doorbell, AV sender, even some security devices and any
of these devices could just as easily be at your neighbours!

Try reducing the distance between the AP and the client computer to only a
few feet if possible and see if there is a point where the connection
becomes more stable. If you get a good reliable connection when really
close, it is most likely that you do have an interference problem.

This problem is not that bizarre, it only seems that way!

Peter

Jay wrote:
> We are currently on our third wireless base station. First was a
> Netgear, next came a Linksys and now we have an Apple Airport Express.
> There are three laptops on the network, not all of them on at the same
> time. One is an HP Pavilion running XP, and the two others are Apple
> Laptops. The problem has been the same with any of the three base
> stations. With no rhyme or reason the connection to the internet is
> dropped. The broadcast signal from the base station is fine. The
> Motorola Surf Board cable modem seems fine and the cable company says
> everything tests out fine. When the connection drops sometimes a reset
> of the modem and base station gets us back online but sometimes it does
> not. Sometimes we have to actually wait hours to get back online. Hard
> wiring to the back of the modem always works perfectly. I have changed
> the channel that the base station uses. While we have a cordless phone
> and microwave oven there is no correlation with them and the problem
> and the base station is far from them. I know there are other wireless
> networks in the neighborhood but I doubt any of them are broadcasting
> on channel three. I have changed the channels around and there doesn't
> seem to be any affect regardless of the channel. this is becoming a
> major frustration and problem because we are trying to work from home
> and rely on the internet to work. Any ideas?? Thanks!
>
Hi,
Possible interference such as 2.4GHz cordless phone? Spyware problem?
Tried different channels? I seem to like channel 11. What kinda security
feature are you using. Don't broadcast your SSID.

You are not narrowing the down the problem.

Three things have to happen for you to get out to the Internet. The laptops
have to talk to the router and the router has to talk to the modem and the
modem has to connect to the outside world.

What you have to figure out is, are you losing connection to the router or
the connection between the router and the modem.

If you can still pull up the router's config screen or ping the router than
its the connection between the router and the modem. If you can't see the
router well then there's your problem.

"Jay" <jay_in_az@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1162326532.352197.168820@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> We are currently on our third wireless base station. First was a
> Netgear, next came a Linksys and now we have an Apple Airport Express.
> There are three laptops on the network, not all of them on at the same
> time. One is an HP Pavilion running XP, and the two others are Apple
> Laptops. The problem has been the same with any of the three base
> stations. With no rhyme or reason the connection to the internet is
> dropped. The broadcast signal from the base station is fine. The
> Motorola Surf Board cable modem seems fine and the cable company says
> everything tests out fine. When the connection drops sometimes a reset
> of the modem and base station gets us back online but sometimes it does
> not. Sometimes we have to actually wait hours to get back online. Hard
> wiring to the back of the modem always works perfectly. I have changed
> the channel that the base station uses. While we have a cordless phone
> and microwave oven there is no correlation with them and the problem
> and the base station is far from them. I know there are other wireless
> networks in the neighborhood but I doubt any of them are broadcasting
> on channel three. I have changed the channels around and there doesn't
> seem to be any affect regardless of the channel. this is becoming a
> major frustration and problem because we are trying to work from home
> and rely on the internet to work. Any ideas?? Thanks!
>

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 02:45:38 GMT, Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in
<mTT1h.231105$1T2.203393@pd7urf2no>:

>Possible interference such as 2.4GHz cordless phone? Spyware problem?
>Tried different channels? I seem to like channel 11. What kinda security
>feature are you using. Don't broadcast your SSID.

Not broadcasting the SSID tends to cause problems, and does no real
good; i.e., it's a bad idea.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On 31 Oct 2006 12:28:52 -0800, "Jay" <jay_in_az@earthlink.net> wrote:

>We are currently on our third wireless base station. First was a
>Netgear, next came a Linksys and now we have an Apple Airport Express.

All are good wireless routers. All have model numbers. What are you
currently using for a wireless router?

>There are three laptops on the network, not all of them on at the same
>time. One is an HP Pavilion running XP, and the two others are Apple
>Laptops.

OK, it's a fair assumption that it's not the wireless routers or the
laptops. What's left?

Hint: Are you using the same ethernet cables between the modem and
the wireless routers de jure for each test? A bad connector or crappy
cable could easily be the culprit. Same with everything else that's
in common such as the power strip or UPS that the wall warts plug
into.

>The problem has been the same with any of the three base
>stations. With no rhyme or reason the connection to the internet is
>dropped.

Is there anything common in the timing of the disconnects?
Does it coincide with the power saving features of the laptops?
Do the laptops go into standby or hibernate and not recover?

>The broadcast signal from the base station is fine.

How close are the laptops to the wireless router?
Too close (less than about 2 ft) is sometimes a problem.

Are you using encryption? If so, try it temporarily without any
encryption to eliminate one possible variable (re-keying interval).

>The
>Motorola Surf Board cable modem seems fine and the cable company says
>everything tests out fine.

How do you know it's fine?
Hint: Assumption is the mother of all screwups.

>When the connection drops sometimes a reset
>of the modem and base station gets us back online but sometimes it does
>not.

Both the modem and the wireless router? That's fine but doesn't tell
you which is the culprit. Try power cycling one, retest, and if that
doesn't help, power cycle the other.

When you get disconnected, try pinging the wireless router or
connecting to it with a web browser. If that works, but you can't
surf the internet, then it's either the router section or the cable
modem (or the cable ISP). Ping is your best diagnostic tool.
1. Ping the router IP.
2. Ping the cable ISP gateway address.
3. Ping something on the internet by IP address.
4. Ping something on the internet by DNS name.

>Sometimes we have to actually wait hours to get back online. Hard
>wiring to the back of the modem always works perfectly.

Works perfectly for how long? A quick test doesn't count.

Also, did you try plugging an ethernet cable into the LAN ports on the
back of the wireless router de jure? If that works, then it's
probably something related to the wireless section. If that fails, it
could be the router section or the cable modem.

It would help if you determined the nature of the disconnect failure.
Does the client laptops show a "disconnect" symbol for the wireless?
Or is it that you just can't surf the internet? Describe the exact
symptoms.

Note that if you simply can't surf, it might be something like DNS
lookup failure. Find the IP address of something obvious like Yahoo
or Google (just ping it by name and ping will give you the IP
address). When it fails, ping it first by IP and then by name. If IP
works, but ping by name does not, your DNS lookup has a problem.

>I have changed
>the channel that the base station uses. While we have a cordless phone
>and microwave oven there is no correlation with them and the problem
>and the base station is far from them.

How far in feet or meters?

>I know there are other wireless
>networks in the neighborhood but I doubt any of them are broadcasting
>on channel three.

Don't use channel 3. Use 1, 6, or 11. If you use 3, you will get
interference from other users on BOTH channels 1 and 6.

>I have changed the channels around and there doesn't
>seem to be any affect regardless of the channel. this is becoming a
>major frustration and problem because we are trying to work from home
>and rely on the internet to work. Any ideas?? Thanks!

Well, it sure sounds like interference, but that's difficult to
determine without a spectrum analyzer. Check if you have one of the
sources of RF interference listed in the FAQ:
http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi#Interference
Look out the window and check if there are any municipal networks or
rooftops with possible WISP installations. Municipal WLAN's tend to
hang from street lights. Meanwhile, try moving your wireless router
and laptops away from windows with views of the city. Try putting
some obstructions between your wireless devices and the likely
direction of any interference.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

John Navas wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 02:45:38 GMT, Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in
> <mTT1h.231105$1T2.203393@pd7urf2no>:
>
>
>>Possible interference such as 2.4GHz cordless phone? Spyware problem?
>>Tried different channels? I seem to like channel 11. What kinda security
>>feature are you using. Don't broadcast your SSID.
>
>
> Not broadcasting the SSID tends to cause problems, and does no real
> good; i.e., it's a bad idea.
>
Hi,
I never do and no problem here. Two Thinkpads, one desktop and a
Powerbook on wireless.