I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. I
was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
to prevent any hacking? I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
> I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
>and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. I
>was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
>to prevent any hacking?
Change the password, and use WPA2 encryption, if available. WPA is
also good, but WEP is broken.
>I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
>may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
>vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
>vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
Assuming your hardwired PC is on the same LAN and file sharing is
enabled, then yes, the hardwired PC is also vulnerable, to an extent.
Disabling the SSID broadcast doesn't buy you anything. Change the
password and keep it safe.
> I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
>and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. I
>was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
>to prevent any hacking? I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
>may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
>vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
>vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
Maker and model of the wireless router?
If he can get onto your wireless network, he can "see" your computers.
Whether he can get into your computers to do evil and nefarious things
(by accident, of course) really depends on how you have you computers
configured. The hardwired PC can be software firewalled fairly
easily. The laptop should have similar protection, especially if
you're using it at various hot spots, where the other patrons can do
as much damage as the nice college kid.
Some routers have provisions for a "guest" wireless connection, which
allows only access to the internet. They would never see your
computers on the network.
Incidentally, if the kid is clueful enough to ask for the WPA key, he
just might know something about computers. Asking him to help secure
your network is a bit dangerous, but if his intentions are honorable,
it won't hurt to ask (and then double check his advice).
Also, the main risk is not trashing your computers. It's his
monopolizing all your bandwidth doing filesharing and downloading.
> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:17:47 -0700 (PDT),
> "shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
> >and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. I
> >was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
> >to prevent any hacking? I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
> >may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
> >vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
> >vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
>
> Maker and model of the wireless router?
"...our wireless Linksys router."
Linksys?
Do Linksys routers have L2 isolation, like my Trendnet TEW-510APB?
On Apr 15, 9:53*pm, Char Jackson <n...@none.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:17:47 -0700 (PDT),
> "shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
> >and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. *I
> >was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
> >to prevent any hacking?
>
> Change the password, and use WPA2 encryption, if available. WPA is
> also good, but WEP is broken.
>
> >I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
> >may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
> >vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
> >vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
>
> Assuming your hardwired PC is on the same LAN and file sharing is
> enabled, then yes, the hardwired PC is also vulnerable, to an extent.
> Disabling the SSID broadcast doesn't buy you anything. Change the
> password and keep it safe.
Thanks for you replies. Doesn't the tenant need a password to access
the internet though? He told my wife he couldn't connect to the
internet so she gave him the password.I have the Linksys WRT54G. I
think there is WPA2 encryption availability. I thought i read that
WPA2 encrytpion has limitations. yes? I'll check into the guest
wirelss connection.
>On Apr 15, 9:53*pm, Char Jackson <n...@none.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:17:47 -0700 (PDT),
>> "shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
>> >and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. *I
>> >was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
>> >to prevent any hacking?
>>
>> Change the password, and use WPA2 encryption, if available. WPA is
>> also good, but WEP is broken.
>>
>> >I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
>> >may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
>> >vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
>> >vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
>>
>> Assuming your hardwired PC is on the same LAN and file sharing is
>> enabled, then yes, the hardwired PC is also vulnerable, to an extent.
>> Disabling the SSID broadcast doesn't buy you anything. Change the
>> password and keep it safe.
>
>Thanks for you replies. Doesn't the tenant need a password to access
>the internet though?
No, he needed a password to access your LAN. Once he had access to
your LAN, he automatically had access to the Internet, just like you
do from your LAN.
>He told my wife he couldn't connect to the
>internet so she gave him the password.I have the Linksys WRT54G. I
>think there is WPA2 encryption availability. I thought i read that
>WPA2 encrytpion has limitations. yes? I'll check into the guest
>wirelss connection.
The only WPA2 limitation I'm aware of is that some very old wireless
cards don't support it, but if all of your wireless equipment does,
then I would recommend it.
On Apr 16, 8:15*am, Char Jackson <n...@none.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:30:41 -0700 (PDT),
> "shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 15, 9:53*pm, Char Jackson <n...@none.invalid> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:17:47 -0700 (PDT),
> >> "shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
> >> >and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. *I
> >> >was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
> >> >to prevent any hacking?
>
> >> Change the password, and use WPA2 encryption, if available. WPA is
> >> also good, but WEP is broken.
>
> >> >I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
> >> >may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
> >> >vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
> >> >vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
>
> >> Assuming your hardwired PC is on the same LAN and file sharing is
> >> enabled, then yes, the hardwired PC is also vulnerable, to an extent.
> >> Disabling the SSID broadcast doesn't buy you anything. Change the
> >> password and keep it safe.
>
> >Thanks for you replies. Doesn't the tenant need a password to access
> >the internet though?
>
> No, he needed a password to access your LAN. Once he had access to
> your LAN, he automatically had access to the Internet, just like you
> do from your LAN.
>
> >He told my wife he couldn't connect to the
> >internet so she gave him the password.I have the Linksys WRT54G. I
> >think there is WPA2 encryption availability. I thought i read that
> >WPA2 encrytpion has limitations. yes? I'll check into the guest
> >wirelss connection.
>
> The only WPA2 limitation I'm aware of is that some very old wireless
> cards don't support it, but if all of your wireless equipment does,
> then I would recommend it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, i meant to say the LAN password, not my personal login
password.Sorry. I guess that was my concern that once he had my LAN
password, he might be able to acess info from my laptop or PC. But
i'll change the security to WPA2 as you recommended. Thanks.
In message
<a944e0dc-9a53-4fbe-aab1-8f9fec99bc4e@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
"shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com> was
claimed to have wrote:
> I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
>and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. I
>was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
>to prevent any hacking? I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
>may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
>vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
>vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
First off, don't worry about him hacking you. He's got physical access
anyway, so whether or not he wins this battle, if he wants to hack you,
physical access always wins the war.
Second, *which* password? WEP? WPA2? Router administration? Your
local computer password?
On Apr 16, 11:30*am, DevilsPGD <DeathToS...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
> In message
> <a944e0dc-9a53-4fbe-aab1-8f9fec99b...@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
> "shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com> was
>
> claimed to have wrote:
> > I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
> >and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. *I
> >was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
> >to prevent any hacking? I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
> >may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
> >vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
> >vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
>
> First off, don't worry about him hacking you. *He's got physical access
> anyway, so whether or not he wins this battle, if he wants to hack you,
> physical access always wins the war.
>
> Second, *which* password? *WEP? *WPA2? *Router administration? *Your
> local computer password?
The password he has is the WPA shared key( same as (LAN?).I re-set the
security this morning to WPA 2 Personal When he logged into his laptop
(his personal password) he then used the WPA shared key password my
wife provided to access the internet. Sorry, i'm not too computer
savvy, but appreciate eveyone's help.
Did you agree in the lease to "share your internet connection"?
Is this a separate unit or a roomer in your home? Do they also share your
telephone line?
If it is part of the rental agreement then you will need to limit his access
to your network AND protect your computers.
If it is not part of your rental agreement and your tenant has their own
unit................let them get their own internet connection. Cut them off
quick before it becomes "ASSuMEd" that it is part of the lease!
I would not want anything negative coming from or to my network! Don't some
"nice college kids" create viruses, download porn and download tons of
music/videos?
I remember one college kid, who was taking a computer course, was instructed
to do an assignment on security, or lack of it, and the computer. The
professor was about to give him an incomplete on that assignment since he
could not find it in the paper pile. Then the student pulled up his
assignment on the professor's computer. Professor was NOT happy that he was
able to upload it onto HIS computer but the parents reminded the professor
that it WAS the assignment.
Well I thought it was funny! lol
So if you TRUST him, and I wouldn't, then it is up to you!
I would change your wireless settings!
JMHO
> "shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com> was
> claimed to have wrote:
>
>> I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
>>and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. I
>>was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
>>to prevent any hacking? I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
>>may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
>>vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
>>vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
>> Maker and model of the wireless router?
>
> "...our wireless Linksys router."
>
> Linksys?
>
> Do Linksys routers have L2 isolation, like my Trendnet TEW-510APB?
Will do with the right firmware [eg dd-wrt].
> Would that help in a case like this?
Possibly. Perhaps creating a guest wireless subnet would be even better; I
think you may be able to do this with DD-WRT.
--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
21:49:00 up 132 days, 22:59, 3 users, load average: 0.15, 0.18, 0.11
My god, said I, with my one liquid eye, am I dreaming, or am I insane?
On Apr 16, 12:31*pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1"
<vwdoc1nos...@pleasehotmail.com> wrote:
> Did you agree in the lease to "share your internet connection"?
> Is this a separate unit or a roomer in your home? *Do they also share your
> telephone line?
> If it is part of the rental agreement then you will need to limit his access
> to your network AND protect your computers.
>
> If it is not part of your rental agreement and your tenant has their own
> unit................let them get their own internet connection. Cut them off
> quick before it becomes "ASSuMEd" that it is part of the lease!
>
> I would not want anything negative coming from or to my network! *Don'tsome
> "nice college kids" create viruses, download porn and download tons of
> music/videos?
>
> I remember one college kid, who was taking a computer course, was instructed
> to do an assignment on security, or lack of it, and the computer. *The
> professor was about to give him an incomplete on that assignment since he
> could not find it in the paper pile. *Then the student pulled up his
> assignment on the professor's computer. *Professor was NOT happy that he was
> able to upload it onto HIS computer but the parents reminded the professor
> that it WAS the assignment.
> Well I thought it was funny! *lol
>
> So if you TRUST him, and I wouldn't, then it is up to you!
> I would change your wireless settings!
>
> JMHO
>
>
>
> > "shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com> was
> > claimed to have wrote:
>
> >> I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
> >>and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. *I
> >>was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
> >>to prevent any hacking? I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
> >>may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know. Am i
> >>vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
> >>vulnerable too? Would disabling ssid broadcast help?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
wife doesn't want to go through that. Our former tenant said she had a
friend looking for a room to rent while he went to school. Before i
could voice my opininon and have her check him out first, she said he
could rent. She owns the house and it's her decision who to bring
in.She bascially told him he could have free internet access. Anyway,
he doesn't share the line. He uses a cell phone. One should always
check the bakground of a potential tenant prior to renting. After all,
you're bringing a stranger into the house. But that's another issue.
On 16/04/09 05:17, shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com wrote:
> I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
> and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. I
> was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
> to prevent any hacking?
Depends.
Do you object to the tenant using the network? If so, just change the
password and be ready for the argument and complaints.
Are you ok with the tenant using it? If so make sure you have an
appendix to your tenancy agreement covering use of the broadband. Then
if they 'hack' or break the T&C you can kick them out.
>I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
> may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know.
What exactly are you worried about? That he might hack your computers
and steal your bank details? or that he might tell all his mates who
will camp outside your house and steal bandwidth ?
>Am i
> vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
> vulnerable too?
Your lodger is "inside" your network so the entire lot is 'compromised'.
However if you have user-level security on all your PCs (ie you have to
logon with passwords, you're using OSX, Linux or XP, and your shared
and private document directories are all properly secured with
user-level passwords) and you have kept your security patches up to date
then you should be relatively safe unless the student is a real cracker.
> Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
Disabling SSID achieves as much for wifi security as painting your front
door green and pretending its a big leaf achieves for home security.
> No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
> wife doesn't want to go through that.
Which is insanely stupid, from a liability standpoint. One serious
accident and any good attorney could get him more than the value of the
house in a lawsuit.
On Apr 16, 3:50*pm, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
> > wife doesn't want to go through that.
>
> Which is insanely stupid, from a liability standpoint. * *One serious
> accident and any good attorney could get him more than the value of the
> house in a lawsuit.
I agree. I mentioned this to her but she doesn't listen. Like i said,
it's her house, but she doesn't do things in a conventional way.
On Apr 16, 2:11*pm, Mark McIntyre <markmcint...@TROUSERSspamcop.net>
wrote:
> On 16/04/09 05:17, shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > * I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
> > and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. *I
> > was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
> > to prevent any hacking?
>
> Depends.
>
> Do you object to the tenant using the network? If so, just change the
> password and be ready for the argument and complaints.
>
> Are you ok with the tenant using it? If so make sure you have an
> appendix to your tenancy agreement covering use of the broadband. Then
> if they 'hack' or break the T&C you can kick them out.
>
> >I playing devil's advocate and assuming this
> > may happen. He's a nice college kid, but you never know.
>
> What exactly are you worried about? That he might hack your computers
> and steal your bank details? or that he might tell all his mates who
> will camp outside your house and steal bandwidth ?
>
> >Am i
> > vulnerable only with my wireless laptop or is my hardwired pc
> > vulnerable too?
>
> Your lodger is "inside" your network so the entire lot is 'compromised'.
> However if you have user-level security on all your PCs (ie you have to
> logon with passwords, you're using OSX, Linux or XP, *and your shared
> and private document directories are all properly secured with
> user-level passwords) and you have kept your security patches up to date
> then you should be relatively safe unless the student is a real cracker.
>
> *> Would disabling ssid broadcast help?
>
> Disabling SSID achieves as much for wifi security as painting your front
> door green and pretending its a big leaf achieves for home security.
Just trying to protect myself. That was the reason for the original
post, whether he could access private info. Anyway, i have plenty of
good advice from everyone. Thanks to all.
<shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4acdfdcb-6958-43a6-939f-0d0c3eb3b419@r31g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 16, 3:50 pm, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
> > wife doesn't want to go through that.
>
> Which is insanely stupid, from a liability standpoint. One serious
> accident and any good attorney could get him more than the value of the
> house in a lawsuit.
I agree. I mentioned this to her but she doesn't listen. Like i said,
it's her house, but she doesn't do things in a conventional way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
You "mentioned" it to her? (That's nice)
Any chance of posting your address, just so the hard up can park outside
your house and share bandwidth?
>Do Linksys routers have L2 isolation, like my Trendnet TEW-510APB?
>Would that help in a case like this?
>The TEW-510APB is an acccess point.
Yes, it would help. Linksys calls it "access point isolation" which
is really "client isolation". It's available in various WRT54G
mutations, but not all of them, usually on the:
wireless -> advanced wireless settings
page:
<http://ui.linksys.com/files/WRT54G/v5/1.00.6/WAdv.htm>
Linksys defines it as:
Creates a separate virtual network for your wireless network.
When this feature is enabled, each of your wireless client
will be in its own virtual network and will not be able to
communicate with each other. You may want to utilize this
feature if you have many guests that frequent your wireless
network.
However, before taking the plunge, it's best to check the online
emulators at:
<http://ui.linksys.com>
to see if "AP Isolation" is available.
You can also setup a VLAN with various alternative firmware, but most
also include "AP Isolation" as a feature. Note that the "AP
Isolation" doesn't isolate the wired users, just the wireless users.
>On Apr 16, 3:50*pm, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
>> > wife doesn't want to go through that.
>>
>> Which is insanely stupid, from a liability standpoint. * *One serious
>> accident and any good attorney could get him more than the value of the
>> house in a lawsuit.
>
>I agree. I mentioned this to her but she doesn't listen. Like i said,
>it's her house, but she doesn't do things in a conventional way.
Off topic, but maybe interesting:
I played slum lord for many years. First for my fathers 13 unit
apartment building. Later for various house rentals and investments.
You're just asking for trouble with a verbal agreement. The courts
tend to favor tenant rights over landlords. Any disagreement might
end up in the courts where the tenant is likely to win. Your only
protection is a piece of paper that limits your exposure. The courts
might enforce a verbal agreement, which means that literally anything
your tenant claims will be considered as a binding contract. However,
if you have a piece of paper (rental agreement) it outweighs a verbal
agreement.
I suggest you purchase the Nolo Press Landlords book (this one for
Calif):
<http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/objectID/CA928DBB-4072-4DE0-B9664D751CEDBDE5/213/>
and RTFM before you make any mistakes.
Also, my favorite trick was to look at the vehicle the prospective
tenant is driving. If the car looks like a garbage dump, that's what
your house will look like shortly.
In message <wLWdnbMUaOe-K3rUnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> "Bill
Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>> No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
>> wife doesn't want to go through that.
>
>Which is insanely stupid, from a liability standpoint. One serious
>accident and any good attorney could get him more than the value of the
>house in a lawsuit.
Most jurisdictions have an implied tenancy agreement that forms
automatically as soon as money is exchanged for tenancy.
Depending on the laws in your particular jurisdiction, once the second
rent payment is made (which establishes a paper trail confirming the
amount and frequency) there may be no difference at all if a contract is
signed or not.
> I found out my wife gave our tenant the wireless encrypted password
> and ssid so he can use his laptop via our wireless Linksys router. I
> was pissed, but it's already been done. What steps can i take, if any
> to prevent any hacking?
Routers are cheap. So you could use two - or three - routers to isolate
a private part of the LAN.
On Apr 16, 9:15*pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:38:38 -0700 (PDT),
> "shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 16, 3:50*pm, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> > No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
> >> > wife doesn't want to go through that.
>
> >> Which is insanely stupid, from a liability standpoint. * *One serious
> >> accident and any good attorney could get him more than the value of the
> >> house in a lawsuit.
>
> >I agree. I mentioned this to her but she doesn't listen. Like i said,
> >it's her house, but she doesn't do things in a *conventional way.
>
> Off topic, but maybe interesting:
>
> I played slum lord for many years. *First for my fathers 13 unit
> apartment building. *Later for various house rentals and investments.
> You're just asking for trouble with a verbal agreement. *The courts
> tend to favor tenant rights over landlords. *Any disagreement might
> end up in the courts where the tenant is likely to win. *Your only
> protection is a piece of paper that limits your exposure. *The courts
> might enforce a verbal agreement, which means that literally anything
> your tenant claims will be considered as a binding contract. *However,
> if you have a piece of paper (rental agreement) it outweighs a verbal
> agreement.
>
> I suggest you purchase the Nolo Press Landlords book (this one for
> Calif):
> <http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/objectID/CA928DBB-4072-4DE0-B9664D751...>
> and RTFM before you make any mistakes.
>
> Also, my favorite trick was to look at the vehicle the prospective
> tenant is driving. *If the car looks like a garbage dump, that's what
> your house will look like shortly.
>
> Good luck.
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 * * * * * *je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> #http://802.11junk.com* * * * * * * je...@cruzio.com
> #http://www.LearnByDestroying.com* * * * * * * AE6KS
I told her never to agree to having a tenant move in until you do a
background check.I said just because the former tenant was a good
tenant, it doesn't mean her friend will be the same.
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:57:58 -0700 (PDT),
"shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>I told her never to agree to having a tenant move in until you do a
>background check.I said just because the former tenant was a good
>tenant, it doesn't mean her friend will be the same.
Background checks and references are nearly useless. Most references
are coached to lie for their friends. Landlords are reluctant to give
bad references because of fear of subsequent retaliation. You can get
a credit history, but most students are not registered with a credit
bureau and have little to report. Parents can co-sign as resposible
party, but might be no better than the student.
One of my rentals became a student crash pad after my long term good
tenants (15 years) left. There were 3 or 4 of them in the house at a
time. There was a constant turn-over as one left and was replaced by
their friends. Anyone staying more than a few days got to fill out a
application, sign a rental agreement (not a lease), and submit a
deposit (so I could pay the former tenant back their deposit). In
other words, it was a formal process. I had problems, but the
turn-over method seemed to work as long as the original tenants were
fairly repsonsible. Good people tend to have similar friends. A good
question to ask is "How long have you known your friend"? If less
than about a year, be suspicious. If more than a few years, they're
probably fairly similar in living habits. Talking to the parents is
often a good idea, as you can get a clue of what might happen if you
have to fall back and ask for their help.
However, that's not what my rant is about. I'm merely suggesting that
you know the applicable laws (for "hiring of property"), that you
cover thy ass with contracts and paper, and that you do a minimum
effort to pre-qualify a prospective tenant. Finding a tenant is MUCH
easier than getting rid of one.
Also, $30 to $175 for a router that supports a "guest" account is a
cheap investment for internal security and peace in the house.
Bill Kearney wrote:
>> No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
>> wife doesn't want to go through that.
>
> Which is insanely stupid, from a liability standpoint. One serious
> accident and any good attorney could get him more than the value of the
> house in a lawsuit.
>
Unfortunately it really doesn't matter. An agreement is just a tiny
slowdown for an attorney who has their picture on every city bus and
late night TV advising they will "help you". If someone is inclined to
not be personally responsible they will ask "for help" agreement or not.
>
> I told her never to agree to having a tenant move in until you do a
> background check.I said just because the former tenant was a good
> tenant, it doesn't mean her friend will be the same.
Its a waste of time to do that. You have to learn how to read people and
scope out their car, how they behave and what their current residence
looks like.
On Apr 17, 9:53*am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:57:58 -0700 (PDT),
> "shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com" <shareyourknowle...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I told her never to agree to having a tenant move in until you do a
> >background check.I said just because the former tenant was a good
> >tenant, it doesn't mean her friend will be the same.
>
> Background checks and references are nearly useless. *Most references
> are coached to lie for their friends. *Landlords are reluctant to give
> bad references because of fear of subsequent retaliation. *You can get
> a credit history, but most students are not registered with a credit
> bureau and have little to report. *Parents can co-sign as resposible
> party, but might be no better than the student. *
>
> One of my rentals became a student crash pad after my long term good
> tenants (15 years) left. *There were 3 or 4 of them in the house at a
> time. *There was a constant turn-over as one left and was replaced by
> their friends. *Anyone staying more than a few days got to fill out a
> application, sign a rental agreement (not a lease), and submit a
> deposit (so I could pay the former tenant back their deposit). *In
> other words, it was a formal process. *I had problems, but the
> turn-over method seemed to work as long as the original tenants were
> fairly repsonsible. *Good people tend to have similar friends. *A good
> question to ask is "How long have you known your friend"? *If less
> than about a year, be suspicious. *If more than a few years, they're
> probably fairly similar in living habits. *Talking to the parents is
> often a good idea, as you can get a clue of what might happen if you
> have to fall back and ask for their help.
>
> However, that's not what my rant is about. *I'm merely suggesting that
> you know the applicable laws (for "hiring of property"), that you
> cover thy ass with contracts and paper, and that you do a minimum
> effort to pre-qualify a prospective tenant. *Finding a tenant is MUCH
> easier than getting rid of one.
>
> Also, $30 to $175 for a router that supports a "guest" account is a
> cheap investment for internal security and peace in the house.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann * * je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558
I've discussed this with the wife before ad nauseum and to no avail.
She just doesn't see things in a rational way.She doesn't believe in
legal contracts or anything else. When she meets a prospective
tenant,she evaluates on intuition. As i said before, she owns the
house. She can decide who comes or goes. I'll suggest the "guest'
router to her. That's a good idea.Regards.
On 17/04/09 04:38, shareyourknowledge@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 16, 3:50 pm, "Bill Kearney"<wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> No, there's no lease.There's no rental agreement. It's a house and my
>>> wife doesn't want to go through that.
>> Which is insanely stupid, from a liability standpoint. One serious
>> accident and any good attorney could get him more than the value of the
>> house in a lawsuit.
>
> I agree. I mentioned this to her but she doesn't listen. Like i said,
> it's her house, but she doesn't do things in a conventional way.
Then its her problem if the lodger uses the broadband to steal bank
account details, launder drugs money and download illegal porn. You
might want to point this out to her.
Aside: Do you have a mortgage or house insurance or contents insurance?
If so, and the companies find out about your contractless lodger, they
may take action to secure their asset and/or refuse to pay out on any
claims.
On 17/04/09 06:59, DevilsPGD wrote:
>
> Most jurisdictions have an implied tenancy agreement that forms
> automatically as soon as money is exchanged for tenancy.
A contract exists, but not a tenancy agreement. And in Scotland it is a
legal requirement to provide a written tenancy agreement.
> Depending on the laws in your particular jurisdiction, once the second
> rent payment is made (which establishes a paper trail confirming the
> amount and frequency) there may be no difference at all if a contract is
> signed or not.
Uk law has this to say:
"...a legal contract exists between a landlord and a tenant whether or
not anything is written down. [-] A verbal contract may, however, be
difficult to enforce, especially if there were no witnesses to the
agreement"
This last part is the bit to think about - if you have no written
agreement, as a landlord you can't keep the deposit to pay for repairs,
you can't stop the tenant having wild parties or painting the room puce,
On the other hand the tenant can't stop the landlord doubling the rent,
or charging extra for internet access or giving him a week's notice.
Tenant shares wireless connection. 
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