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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 03:00 AM
logankriete@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

Alright, let me start off by saying that I'm not a malicious hacker -
like hacker ethic's state, I do this soley for exploration and
advancement of knowledge.

Let me also say that this may be a long post, but I hope all of you
respond so we can have an exciting discussion!

Now that the legalese and foreward is out of the way, I've got a
discussion to start with you wireless experts. I've done my share of
hacking before, but I've not done any WiFi hacking, so I thought I'd
post this here to sort of get a consensus on a crazy idea I had
tonight.

I'm staying at this hotel in NYC over the next 3 days (the Doubletree
by Times Square). They don't offer wired internet because it's an old
building and they don't want to rewire it all. So they offer wireless
internet in the suites for $9.95/day. Bummer, right? So the person I'm
staying with in the hotel signs up wirelessly with his laptop and gets
on just fine. The system makes him register an account, and he's got
his high-speed internet. So I try the account on my computer - no such
luck. Perhaps only one laptop at a time is allowed to connect? He logs
off and shuts down his wireless, and I try again. Strike two. Alright,
so perhaps they're filtering based on something else - what's the most
permanent thing most people have associated with their network cards? A
MAC address! Looking more closely at the history log of my friend's
laptop (we're both computer people and keep logs of these sorts of
things), I notice that when he first signed up with the system, it
passed his MAC address around via some GET variables in the URL. So I
go ahead and change my MAC address to his and re-connect, again making
sure he's off. Bingo! Wireless internet. Main problem: solved.

Now here's where I started getting excited. They obviously have
wireless coverage in all of the rooms built in, and the gateway filters
who's allowed to connect by A) an account with user/pass combo; B) the
MAC address; or C) a combination of both. Now, I had typed in the
account information with my old MAC address enabled - not with his,
which leads me to believe that they're using option B. This really
doesn't matter anyway, as you'll see later on. So, wireless in all the
rooms. Based on my findings, theoretically, couldn't I just find
someone else who's signed up for the internet, get their MAC address,
spoof theirs as mine, and get internet, in their name? Wouldn't that
then allow me to get free wireless internet? Remember, whatever you
tell me can't steal from the hotel - I've already paid to get the
internet in our room. So, how to get the MAC addresses? I've got a tool
which can recover the MAC address of a remote machine by giving it the
IP address - anyone know of a tool which can give me a list of all the
live hosts' IP addresses in my subnet? I've got SuperScan, but it's
slow & bloated - I'm thinking maybe nmap? Granted, not every wireless
MAC address I get will have signed up for the free internet - most
laptop users who aren't computer literate will just leave their
wireless adapter on and it'll connect to the default network. But a
strong percentage (or at least a few) will have done so, and that could
then be used a list to rotate among for my MAC address, to continually
get free wireless internet.

But wait, Logan, you're all now thinking - two machines with the same
MAC address on the same network? Surely the router or gateway would go
mad! Or something like that. Well, I anticipated that, too - I had once
read an article about WEP hacking and in it was mentioned a way to send
a broadcast packet to tell certain clients to
disconnect/disassociate/disauthenticate from a certain SSID, again by
spoofing the MAC address to appear as if it the packet were coming from
the router/gateway. Anyone know of a way to achieve this? If so, then
one would be able to construct a tool which rotated one's MAC address
among a list and sending out the appropriately spoofed packets to
ensure that the MAC address currently in use was not connected to the
network. Sure, one user at a time will have some wireless troubles, but
that's their problem to deal with.

And now for the granddaddy of them all - I got the MAC address of the
main gateway assigned to my laptop when I first connected wirelessly.
This device, I'm assuming, allows access only to its manufacturer's
special website for some legalese agreements & logins, etc. Now,
couldn't I change my MAC address to that of the main gateway, do the
same for the IP address, and flood the network with spoofed ARP packets
to, in essence, redirect all the traffic normally going to the gateway
to my laptop? I could then easily create a fake website which looked
like the real gateway, grab their user details, and send them along to
the real gateway. Don't know how much or what I could harvest with an
attack like that, but any comments would be appreciated to further
discuss! Another note: I believe an attack like this was described in
one of the "Stealing the Network" books (I'm not at home right now
otherwise I'd look it up since I've got the whole series): where a
student did something similar to grab the personal details of all the
registering students at a college who were creating accounts at the
school's "personal" website (you know, sites like my.mit.edu). He used
a tool, I think, called webmitmd to man-in-the-middle the secure server
on campus.

That's all I've been brooding about over the past hour or so. I was
thinking more and more about it but really wanted a bunch of
knowledgeable experts I could share my thoughts with to further discuss
the feasability, both technically and otherwise, of the possibility of
things like these actually happening. Because I'm sure with your
stimulating responses, I can learn much more than I could have trying
to research all of this!

That's it! Looking forward to some discussions!


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 05:28 AM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On 9 Aug 2006 20:00:48 -0700, logankriete@gmail.com wrote in
<1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegroups. com>:

>Alright, let me start off by saying that I'm not a malicious hacker -
>like hacker ethic's state, I do this soley for exploration and
>advancement of knowledge.
>[BIG SNIP]


Why am I skeptical. No thanks.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 05:35 AM
miso@sushi.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack


logankriete@gmail.com wrote:
> Alright, let me start off by saying that I'm not a malicious hacker -
> like hacker ethic's state, I do this soley for exploration and
> advancement of knowledge.
>
> Let me also say that this may be a long post, but I hope all of you
> respond so we can have an exciting discussion!
>
> Now that the legalese and foreward is out of the way, I've got a
> discussion to start with you wireless experts. I've done my share of
> hacking before, but I've not done any WiFi hacking, so I thought I'd
> post this here to sort of get a consensus on a crazy idea I had
> tonight.
>
> I'm staying at this hotel in NYC over the next 3 days (the Doubletree
> by Times Square). They don't offer wired internet because it's an old
> building and they don't want to rewire it all. So they offer wireless
> internet in the suites for $9.95/day. Bummer, right? So the person I'm
> staying with in the hotel signs up wirelessly with his laptop and gets
> on just fine. The system makes him register an account, and he's got
> his high-speed internet. So I try the account on my computer - no such
> luck. Perhaps only one laptop at a time is allowed to connect? He logs
> off and shuts down his wireless, and I try again. Strike two. Alright,
> so perhaps they're filtering based on something else - what's the most
> permanent thing most people have associated with their network cards? A
> MAC address! Looking more closely at the history log of my friend's
> laptop (we're both computer people and keep logs of these sorts of
> things), I notice that when he first signed up with the system, it
> passed his MAC address around via some GET variables in the URL. So I
> go ahead and change my MAC address to his and re-connect, again making
> sure he's off. Bingo! Wireless internet. Main problem: solved.
>
> Now here's where I started getting excited. They obviously have
> wireless coverage in all of the rooms built in, and the gateway filters
> who's allowed to connect by A) an account with user/pass combo; B) the
> MAC address; or C) a combination of both. Now, I had typed in the
> account information with my old MAC address enabled - not with his,
> which leads me to believe that they're using option B. This really
> doesn't matter anyway, as you'll see later on. So, wireless in all the
> rooms. Based on my findings, theoretically, couldn't I just find
> someone else who's signed up for the internet, get their MAC address,
> spoof theirs as mine, and get internet, in their name? Wouldn't that
> then allow me to get free wireless internet? Remember, whatever you
> tell me can't steal from the hotel - I've already paid to get the
> internet in our room. So, how to get the MAC addresses? I've got a tool
> which can recover the MAC address of a remote machine by giving it the
> IP address - anyone know of a tool which can give me a list of all the
> live hosts' IP addresses in my subnet? I've got SuperScan, but it's
> slow & bloated - I'm thinking maybe nmap? Granted, not every wireless
> MAC address I get will have signed up for the free internet - most
> laptop users who aren't computer literate will just leave their
> wireless adapter on and it'll connect to the default network. But a
> strong percentage (or at least a few) will have done so, and that could
> then be used a list to rotate among for my MAC address, to continually
> get free wireless internet.
>
> But wait, Logan, you're all now thinking - two machines with the same
> MAC address on the same network? Surely the router or gateway would go
> mad! Or something like that. Well, I anticipated that, too - I had once
> read an article about WEP hacking and in it was mentioned a way to send
> a broadcast packet to tell certain clients to
> disconnect/disassociate/disauthenticate from a certain SSID, again by
> spoofing the MAC address to appear as if it the packet were coming from
> the router/gateway. Anyone know of a way to achieve this? If so, then
> one would be able to construct a tool which rotated one's MAC address
> among a list and sending out the appropriately spoofed packets to
> ensure that the MAC address currently in use was not connected to the
> network. Sure, one user at a time will have some wireless troubles, but
> that's their problem to deal with.
>
> And now for the granddaddy of them all - I got the MAC address of the
> main gateway assigned to my laptop when I first connected wirelessly.
> This device, I'm assuming, allows access only to its manufacturer's
> special website for some legalese agreements & logins, etc. Now,
> couldn't I change my MAC address to that of the main gateway, do the
> same for the IP address, and flood the network with spoofed ARP packets
> to, in essence, redirect all the traffic normally going to the gateway
> to my laptop? I could then easily create a fake website which looked
> like the real gateway, grab their user details, and send them along to
> the real gateway. Don't know how much or what I could harvest with an
> attack like that, but any comments would be appreciated to further
> discuss! Another note: I believe an attack like this was described in
> one of the "Stealing the Network" books (I'm not at home right now
> otherwise I'd look it up since I've got the whole series): where a
> student did something similar to grab the personal details of all the
> registering students at a college who were creating accounts at the
> school's "personal" website (you know, sites like my.mit.edu). He used
> a tool, I think, called webmitmd to man-in-the-middle the secure server
> on campus.
>
> That's all I've been brooding about over the past hour or so. I was
> thinking more and more about it but really wanted a bunch of
> knowledgeable experts I could share my thoughts with to further discuss
> the feasability, both technically and otherwise, of the possibility of
> things like these actually happening. Because I'm sure with your
> stimulating responses, I can learn much more than I could have trying
> to research all of this!
>
> That's it! Looking forward to some discussions!


Well, you are in the same room. Perhaps a crossover cable between PCs
and enable sharing. Or haul a wireless router that you both share.

Another idea is to stick an antenna at your window and find some free
wifi.


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 02:59 PM
logankriete@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

@ John -

You really believe I have a malicious intent here? Look around the
internet, Google my name, you'll see that I'm just a tech guy like you
trying to learn. I've even offered lots of advice and help to others
who request it. If I really wanted to hack them and cause damage, I
would have done so via the wired terminals they provide in the Business
Center. When you were first learning about your profession, would you
have appreciated someone who brushed you off like you were a criminal?
I'm extremely offended at your response and just hope that no one else
you offer "advice" to encounters this same type of treatment.

@miso -

Thanks for the idea; we had actually done that to begin with before
changing my MAC address. We used a crossover to connect his computer to
mine and enabled ICS on his Windows laptop. The antenna idea is a
really interesting option for me to keep in mind for the future; I
don't have one with me but I'll experiment when I get back from my
trip. Thanks for giving me a helpful reply!


If anyone else would like to contribute to this discussion, you're
welcome to do so!

miso@sushi.com wrote:
> logankriete@gmail.com wrote:
> > Alright, let me start off by saying that I'm not a malicious hacker -
> > like hacker ethic's state, I do this soley for exploration and
> > advancement of knowledge.
> >
> > Let me also say that this may be a long post, but I hope all of you
> > respond so we can have an exciting discussion!
> >
> > Now that the legalese and foreward is out of the way, I've got a
> > discussion to start with you wireless experts. I've done my share of
> > hacking before, but I've not done any WiFi hacking, so I thought I'd
> > post this here to sort of get a consensus on a crazy idea I had
> > tonight.
> >
> > I'm staying at this hotel in NYC over the next 3 days (the Doubletree
> > by Times Square). They don't offer wired internet because it's an old
> > building and they don't want to rewire it all. So they offer wireless
> > internet in the suites for $9.95/day. Bummer, right? So the person I'm
> > staying with in the hotel signs up wirelessly with his laptop and gets
> > on just fine. The system makes him register an account, and he's got
> > his high-speed internet. So I try the account on my computer - no such
> > luck. Perhaps only one laptop at a time is allowed to connect? He logs
> > off and shuts down his wireless, and I try again. Strike two. Alright,
> > so perhaps they're filtering based on something else - what's the most
> > permanent thing most people have associated with their network cards? A
> > MAC address! Looking more closely at the history log of my friend's
> > laptop (we're both computer people and keep logs of these sorts of
> > things), I notice that when he first signed up with the system, it
> > passed his MAC address around via some GET variables in the URL. So I
> > go ahead and change my MAC address to his and re-connect, again making
> > sure he's off. Bingo! Wireless internet. Main problem: solved.
> >
> > Now here's where I started getting excited. They obviously have
> > wireless coverage in all of the rooms built in, and the gateway filters
> > who's allowed to connect by A) an account with user/pass combo; B) the
> > MAC address; or C) a combination of both. Now, I had typed in the
> > account information with my old MAC address enabled - not with his,
> > which leads me to believe that they're using option B. This really
> > doesn't matter anyway, as you'll see later on. So, wireless in all the
> > rooms. Based on my findings, theoretically, couldn't I just find
> > someone else who's signed up for the internet, get their MAC address,
> > spoof theirs as mine, and get internet, in their name? Wouldn't that
> > then allow me to get free wireless internet? Remember, whatever you
> > tell me can't steal from the hotel - I've already paid to get the
> > internet in our room. So, how to get the MAC addresses? I've got a tool
> > which can recover the MAC address of a remote machine by giving it the
> > IP address - anyone know of a tool which can give me a list of all the
> > live hosts' IP addresses in my subnet? I've got SuperScan, but it's
> > slow & bloated - I'm thinking maybe nmap? Granted, not every wireless
> > MAC address I get will have signed up for the free internet - most
> > laptop users who aren't computer literate will just leave their
> > wireless adapter on and it'll connect to the default network. But a
> > strong percentage (or at least a few) will have done so, and that could
> > then be used a list to rotate among for my MAC address, to continually
> > get free wireless internet.
> >
> > But wait, Logan, you're all now thinking - two machines with the same
> > MAC address on the same network? Surely the router or gateway would go
> > mad! Or something like that. Well, I anticipated that, too - I had once
> > read an article about WEP hacking and in it was mentioned a way to send
> > a broadcast packet to tell certain clients to
> > disconnect/disassociate/disauthenticate from a certain SSID, again by
> > spoofing the MAC address to appear as if it the packet were coming from
> > the router/gateway. Anyone know of a way to achieve this? If so, then
> > one would be able to construct a tool which rotated one's MAC address
> > among a list and sending out the appropriately spoofed packets to
> > ensure that the MAC address currently in use was not connected to the
> > network. Sure, one user at a time will have some wireless troubles, but
> > that's their problem to deal with.
> >
> > And now for the granddaddy of them all - I got the MAC address of the
> > main gateway assigned to my laptop when I first connected wirelessly.
> > This device, I'm assuming, allows access only to its manufacturer's
> > special website for some legalese agreements & logins, etc. Now,
> > couldn't I change my MAC address to that of the main gateway, do the
> > same for the IP address, and flood the network with spoofed ARP packets
> > to, in essence, redirect all the traffic normally going to the gateway
> > to my laptop? I could then easily create a fake website which looked
> > like the real gateway, grab their user details, and send them along to
> > the real gateway. Don't know how much or what I could harvest with an
> > attack like that, but any comments would be appreciated to further
> > discuss! Another note: I believe an attack like this was described in
> > one of the "Stealing the Network" books (I'm not at home right now
> > otherwise I'd look it up since I've got the whole series): where a
> > student did something similar to grab the personal details of all the
> > registering students at a college who were creating accounts at the
> > school's "personal" website (you know, sites like my.mit.edu). He used
> > a tool, I think, called webmitmd to man-in-the-middle the secure server
> > on campus.
> >
> > That's all I've been brooding about over the past hour or so. I was
> > thinking more and more about it but really wanted a bunch of
> > knowledgeable experts I could share my thoughts with to further discuss
> > the feasability, both technically and otherwise, of the possibility of
> > things like these actually happening. Because I'm sure with your
> > stimulating responses, I can learn much more than I could have trying
> > to research all of this!
> >
> > That's it! Looking forward to some discussions!

>
> Well, you are in the same room. Perhaps a crossover cable between PCs
> and enable sharing. Or haul a wireless router that you both share.
>
> Another idea is to stick an antenna at your window and find some free
> wifi.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 08:18 PM
dold@XReXXTheor.usenet.us.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

logankriete@gmail.com wrote:

> And now for the granddaddy of them all - I got the MAC address of the


I was following right along with you until that one.

It's annoying that hotels charge $9.95 for an internet connection.
I've seen this identical complaint about $9.95 per MAC before.
Last time, I think it was from someone who had two different PCs with built
in WiFi, and he couldn't use them both, not even one at a time. Or maybe
it was a PC and a PDA... something like that.

In Denver, the Hilton offers free WiFi, but charges for breakfast. The
Embassy charges for WiFi, but has free breakfast.

One could always shop for the accommodations that worked for them.

In Sunnyvale, the Maple Tree Inn has free internet, free breakfast, but
you have to get a signon token from the front desk. Winner.

Spoofing yourself as a "secured" WAP, intentionally to capture other
persons' $9.95 login credentials, sounds like an obvious case of grand
theft.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 10:46 PM
logankriete@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

Thanks for your reply, Clarence. The hotel I just stayed at before
flying into NYC was the Nine Zero in Boston - free wired and wireless
internet, you just have to get a password from the front desk. The best
I've seen so far is Novotel in NYC, on Broadway - free, public WiFi -
no questions asked.

Now let me just restate this again, since both you and John so far have
not seemed to understand this: I have absolutely no malicious intent at
all. I don't want to steal others' logins, money, data, etc. I don't
want to cause the hotel undue harm or stress. I don't want to do
anything at all with a purposefully malicious intent. In the interest
of learning, I had just hoped I could discuss theoretical situations
and attack vectors with other experts and have an intelligent
discussion with others. I'M NOT PLANNING ON ATTACKING THIS, OR ANY
HOTEL, THAT I STAY AT, NOW OR IN THE FUTURE OF MY LIFE.

Please try and understand this, people. I'm not evil!

dold@XReXXTheor.usenet.us.com wrote:
> logankriete@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > And now for the granddaddy of them all - I got the MAC address of the

>
> I was following right along with you until that one.
>
> It's annoying that hotels charge $9.95 for an internet connection.
> I've seen this identical complaint about $9.95 per MAC before.
> Last time, I think it was from someone who had two different PCs with built
> in WiFi, and he couldn't use them both, not even one at a time. Or maybe
> it was a PC and a PDA... something like that.
>
> In Denver, the Hilton offers free WiFi, but charges for breakfast. The
> Embassy charges for WiFi, but has free breakfast.
>
> One could always shop for the accommodations that worked for them.
>
> In Sunnyvale, the Maple Tree Inn has free internet, free breakfast, but
> you have to get a signon token from the front desk. Winner.
>
> Spoofing yourself as a "secured" WAP, intentionally to capture other
> persons' $9.95 login credentials, sounds like an obvious case of grand
> theft.
>
> --
> ---
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5



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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 11:23 PM
Eric
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

<logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...

What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!

I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. After 6PM, its not like they would
know, anyway. The only people there after 6PM are the front desk people, a
general utility guy, a security guy -- and none of them have a clue.

If anything, just split it between a room-mate. (The crossover cable idea
by miso is good.)

Staying at hotels often, I have a relatively small AP that can run in
repeater mode that I keep in my laptop bag. Hotels I stay at usually have
free wireless, although often they just have one AP per floor and the signal
can be intermittent. Often I set it up as a repeater, not just for myself
but anyone else that wants to use it. I don't care if anyone else does. I
was repeating once at a Holiday Inn and had, at one point, five other folks
using my AP. I also even use the AP often if there isn't an internet pipe.
I just set it up as a standalone AP, so myself and coworkers can get an
expedient LAN up and going for multiplayer games. Stayed at one hotel for
such a long period that I had a key to the utility room on my floor, so I
could go in and power cycle their cheap Linksys AP whenever it locked up...





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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 01:56 AM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On 10 Aug 2006 15:46:34 -0700, logankriete@gmail.com wrote in
<1155249994.423087.81630@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>:

>Thanks for your reply, Clarence. The hotel I just stayed at before
>flying into NYC was the Nine Zero in Boston - free wired and wireless
>internet, you just have to get a password from the front desk. The best
>I've seen so far is Novotel in NYC, on Broadway - free, public WiFi -
>no questions asked.
>
>Now let me just restate this again, since both you and John so far have
>not seemed to understand this: I have absolutely no malicious intent at
>all. I don't want to steal others' logins, money, data, etc. I don't
>want to cause the hotel undue harm or stress. I don't want to do
>anything at all with a purposefully malicious intent. In the interest
>of learning, I had just hoped I could discuss theoretical situations
>and attack vectors with other experts and have an intelligent
>discussion with others. I'M NOT PLANNING ON ATTACKING THIS, OR ANY
>HOTEL, THAT I STAY AT, NOW OR IN THE FUTURE OF MY LIFE.
>
>Please try and understand this, people. I'm not evil!


Why/how should we take that at face value?

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 01:57 AM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:23:39 GMT, "Eric" <none@nospam.npn> wrote in
<%dPCg.64694$Eh1.30747@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>:

><logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>
>What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!
>
>I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
>probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. After 6PM, its not like they would
>know, anyway. The only people there after 6PM are the front desk people, a
>general utility guy, a security guy -- and none of them have a clue.


Do you also shoplift, or just steal Internet access?

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 03:31 AM
logankriete@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

Do you also act like an *******, or just be a dick?

I've tried to talk to you peacefully, but honestly, you're making out
everyone single one of us to be hardened criminals who have no respect
for the law. Get a clue and wake up - we're not criminals. You can
pretend to be as much "holier-than-thou" as you want, but in the end,
you're just incompetent.

@Eric - that's a great idea to bring along a small AP to help others as
well. What I really love is your idea of having your coworkers and you
playing LAN games wirelessly - I can just imagine going on a business
trip with my coworkers, coming back from a meeting or convention, and
playing some wireless networked CoD. Not to be pushy, but can I ask how
long you stayed at that hotel, and how you got a key card for the
utility room? Power-cycling their cheap AP seems like also a good idea
when one gets spotty reception.

John Navas wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:23:39 GMT, "Eric" <none@nospam.npn> wrote in
> <%dPCg.64694$Eh1.30747@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>:
>
> ><logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!
> >
> >I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
> >probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. After 6PM, its not like they would
> >know, anyway. The only people there after 6PM are the front desk people, a
> >general utility guy, a security guy -- and none of them have a clue.

>
> Do you also shoplift, or just steal Internet access?
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>



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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 03:41 AM
miso@sushi.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack


Eric wrote:
> <logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!
>
> I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
> probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. After 6PM, its not like they would
> know, anyway. The only people there after 6PM are the front desk people, a
> general utility guy, a security guy -- and none of them have a clue.


In the boonies, they often charge for wifi. It's not like you can go
elsewhere.

Believe it or not, some Motel 6's have ethernet ports in the room.

>
> If anything, just split it between a room-mate. (The crossover cable idea
> by miso is good.)
>
> Staying at hotels often, I have a relatively small AP that can run in
> repeater mode that I keep in my laptop bag. Hotels I stay at usually have
> free wireless, although often they just have one AP per floor and the signal
> can be intermittent. Often I set it up as a repeater, not just for myself
> but anyone else that wants to use it. I don't care if anyone else does. I
> was repeating once at a Holiday Inn and had, at one point, five other folks
> using my AP. I also even use the AP often if there isn't an internet pipe.
> I just set it up as a standalone AP, so myself and coworkers can get an
> expedient LAN up and going for multiplayer games. Stayed at one hotel for
> such a long period that I had a key to the utility room on my floor, so I
> could go in and power cycle their cheap Linksys AP whenever it locked up...


I never thought about setting up a repeater, but that is a good idea.
Often each room has a sweet spot, and it isn't where you want to sit.


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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 04:08 AM
Bill Kearney
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

> I'm extremely offended at your response and just hope that no one else
> you offer "advice" to encounters this same type of treatment.


Somehow the words "grow up" come to mind here.



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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 01:29 PM
Me
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On 10 Aug 2006 20:41:38 -0700, miso@sushi.com wrote:

>Believe it or not, some Motel 6's have ethernet ports in the room.

Comfort Inns/Suites (at least the ones I've used) are wireless in the
lobby and wired in the rooms. At least some of the Drury Inns, also.

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 02:44 PM
logankriete@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

Is that because you can't stand the fact that someone else may actually
have a worthwhile opinion? I'm not a bad person, so I was offended when
John treated me as such. You'd react the exact same way if someone
mistreated you, so I wouldn't be talking if I were you.

Bill Kearney wrote:
> > I'm extremely offended at your response and just hope that no one else
> > you offer "advice" to encounters this same type of treatment.

>
> Somehow the words "grow up" come to mind here.



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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 04:12 PM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On 10 Aug 2006 20:31:27 -0700, logankriete@gmail.com wrote in
<1155267087.879882.254490@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>:

>Do you also act like an *******, or just be a dick?


I'm actually an honest person that doesn't have much patience for
dishonesty, and that isn't gullible enough to fall for suspicious
anonymous posting at face value. I'm also grown enough not to stoop to
language like that, which only serves to make me even more suspicions.
And my response was to Eric's patent dishonesty, not you. Get a grip.

>I've tried to talk to you peacefully, but honestly, you're making out
>everyone single one of us to be hardened criminals who have no respect
>for the law.


I'm actually just telling you that you haven't convinced me of honorable
intentions, particularly given how suspicious your post appears. That
burden is on you, not me.

>Get a clue and wake up - we're not criminals.


Clueless would actually be taking that at face value, particularly since
you lump yourself in with Eric, who thinks it's OK to steal Internet
service just because he thinks the price is too high and can get away
with it.

>You can
>pretend to be as much "holier-than-thou" as you want, but in the end,
>you're just incompetent.


Insults only serve to weaken your case.

>@Eric - that's a great idea to bring along a small AP to help others as
>well. What I really love is your idea of having your coworkers and you
>playing LAN games wirelessly - I can just imagine going on a business
>trip with my coworkers, coming back from a meeting or convention, and
>playing some wireless networked CoD. Not to be pushy, but can I ask how
>long you stayed at that hotel, and how you got a key card for the
>utility room? Power-cycling their cheap AP seems like also a good idea
>when one gets spotty reception.


That's case closed as far as I'm concerned. My suspicions were valid,
and I don't help dishonest people.


>John Navas wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:23:39 GMT, "Eric" <none@nospam.npn> wrote in
>> <%dPCg.64694$Eh1.30747@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>:
>>
>> ><logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>> >
>> >What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!
>> >
>> >I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
>> >probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. After 6PM, its not like they would
>> >know, anyway. The only people there after 6PM are the front desk people, a
>> >general utility guy, a security guy -- and none of them have a clue.

>>
>> Do you also shoplift, or just steal Internet access?


--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 04:13 PM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On 10 Aug 2006 20:41:38 -0700, miso@sushi.com wrote in
<1155267698.280526.117530@74g2000cwt.googlegroups. com>:

>Eric wrote:
>> <logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>> What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!
>>
>> I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
>> probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. After 6PM, its not like they would
>> know, anyway. The only people there after 6PM are the front desk people, a
>> general utility guy, a security guy -- and none of them have a clue.

>
>In the boonies, they often charge for wifi. It's not like you can go
>elsewhere.


Get your own cellular data. Or go without.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 08:39 PM
dold@XReXXTheor.usenet.us.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

logankriete@gmail.com wrote:
> Now let me just restate this again, since both you and John so far have
> not seemed to understand this: I have absolutely no malicious intent at
> all.


You may complain about the pricing and policies of the hotel, but that
doesn't change what should be your respect for others.

You have no right to intercept anyone's traffic.
You have no right to knock any paying customer off their network, even for
a moment.
You have no right to spoof being any device on that network, client or AP.
You have no right to steal what someone else has paid for.

If you and your roommate want to "share" his paid access, that is a gray
area that you might justify to yourself, but you proposed going beyond
that.

No evil intent, of course.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 10:26 PM
Robert Coe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:41:52 -0700, Dave Rudisill <denali@alaska.net> wrote:
: >logankriete@gmail.com wrote:
:
: >Now let me just restate this again, since both you and John so far have
: >not seemed to understand this: I have absolutely no malicious intent at
: >all. I don't want to steal others' logins, money, data, etc. I don't
: >want to cause the hotel undue harm or stress. I don't want to do
: >anything at all with a purposefully malicious intent.
:
: From his original post:
:
: "Sure, one user at a time will have some wireless troubles, but
: that's their problem to deal with."
:
: He wants to steal the service that another guest paid for. I get it.
:
: He isn't an evil person. He's just a prick.

And a troll. If we stop talking to him, maybe he'll mosey on over to a
genealogy group, or somewhere.

If you're going to tell him anything, give him bogus information that might
get him caught.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2006, 10:30 PM
Robert Coe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:23:39 GMT, "Eric" <none@nospam.npn> wrote:
: <logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
: news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
:
: What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!
:
: I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
: probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. ...

What planet are you from? I've yet to stay at a hotel where Internet access
was less than $10 a day.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2006, 12:23 AM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:30:30 -0400, Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> wrote in
<q41qd2pmbbqpjb490b4tiet4bre390jnn7@4ax.com>:

>On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:23:39 GMT, "Eric" <none@nospam.npn> wrote:
>: <logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
>: news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>:
>: What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!
>:
>: I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
>: probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. ...
>
>What planet are you from? I've yet to stay at a hotel where Internet access
>was less than $10 a day.


It's free at many hotels, and is less than that at others.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2006, 03:56 AM
logankriete@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

Since most people here seem to be thinking that I'm some sort of
malicious criminal, I'm no longer going to reply to this thread. Just a
few retorts before I leave:

I'm not a troll as John assumed. Search my name on the Internet -
you'll see.

I'm not interested AT ALL WHATSOEVER in stealing peoples' access,
kicking them off the network, disrupting their session, or anything
else of that nature to cause any inconvenience or harm to any user of
the network. This was a STRICTLY THEORETICAL discussion - if you don't
understand what that means, look it up. Plenty of great ideas and
contributions to society have risen out of a group of people tossing
around "what-if" scenarios. John, do you think the creators of the
"Stealing the Network" series planned to, or actually committed, any of
the events depicted in their books? And if so, why not? I'm curious to
know as to how you can believe them but not me. And they provided a
complete roadmap on exactly how to use and execute every single one of
the tools needed to accomplish a sought-after goal. I just asked for a
simple, intellectual discussion on different possibilities - not
step-by-step instructions on how to hack the hotel's network.

And I'll leave you with this: if I had really wanted to hack the
network, I wouldn't have posted something here - I would've asked in
one of the underground forums. And, consequently, I would know if you
post fake information.

Thank you to those who wanted to and tried to make an earnest effort of
contributing intellectually to this discussion. To the trolls in this
topic, think twice before you blow off someone as a black-hat hacker.
Sometimes, someone just wants to learn.

John Navas wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:30:30 -0400, Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> wrote in
> <q41qd2pmbbqpjb490b4tiet4bre390jnn7@4ax.com>:
>
> >On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:23:39 GMT, "Eric" <none@nospam.npn> wrote:
> >: <logankriete@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >: news:1155178848.351100.238550@75g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> >:
> >: What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!
> >:
> >: I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd
> >: probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. ...
> >
> >What planet are you from? I've yet to stay at a hotel where Internet access
> >was less than $10 a day.

>
> It's free at many hotels, and is less than that at others.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>



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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2006, 04:18 AM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On 11 Aug 2006 20:56:30 -0700, logankriete@gmail.com wrote:

>I'm not a troll as John assumed. Search my name on the Internet -
>you'll see.


I did that when you first suggested it.
You didn't post your real name, but it can be deduced.

I did search Google groups for your current email address:
logankriete@gmail.com
which returns only a few messages in the current thread.

Doing a bit of digging, I find:
| http://groups.google.com/groups/prof...05nZ-8fQ&hl=en
Which returns Logan Kriet as your real name. Using that to search
Google groups by author returns nothing.

Other interesting item are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:LoganK
http://www.greatestjournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=logank
http://tviv.org/User:LoganK
http://digg.com/users/LoganKriete/
which shows nothing interesting.

Also, your web pages:
http://logankriete.com
http://www.logansrunonline.com
which are equally devoid of any content.

You seem to be involved in some software development projects:
http://www.phpbuilder.com/people/vie...user_id=144627
which is good, but shows nothing related to hacking, ethicial or
otherwise.

What were we suppose to see when we search your name on the internet?

Hint:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...eff+Liebermann
shows 14,300 articles and:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...ors=John+Navas
shows 102,000 articles.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2006, 09:40 PM
Robert Coe
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

On 11 Aug 2006 20:56:30 -0700, logankriete@gmail.com wrote:
: Since most people here seem to be thinking that I'm some sort of
: malicious criminal, I'm no longer going to reply to this thread. Just a
: few retorts before I leave:
:
: I'm not a troll as John assumed. Search my name on the Internet -
: you'll see.

It was I, not John, who called you a troll. And I'm ignoring my own advice by
commenting on anything you say. I attempt to justify this action by citing the
intrinsic value of setting the record straight.

I don't give a rat's *** what the Internet says about your name.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2006, 02:28 PM
Bill Kearney
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

> Is that because you can't stand the fact that someone else may actually
> have a worthwhile opinion? I'm not a bad person, so I was offended when
> John treated me as such. You'd react the exact same way if someone
> mistreated you, so I wouldn't be talking if I were you.


Oh please, I stand by the comment "grow up". Your long diatribe comes
across as some juvenile newbie fascinated with being able to steal wifi
access and pondering the implications of it. To cop some sort of attitude
about being offended is just asinine. It's like you discovered the art of
lockpicking and are so delighted about it you want to get a whole
conversation going about it and how you broke into hotel rooms. While it's
certainly fascinating, well to you anyway, a more mature mind would stop and
think as to whether it's rational to go blathering about it to a newsgroup.
Thus the statement "grow up".

Hey, once upon a time hacking long distance access was fun but we didn't go
blaterhing about it to newsgroups, let alone trying to pretend being
"offended" if someone called us on the abberant nature of it.

So I repeat, "grow up".


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