Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
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Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
BACKGROUND:
After searching several forums for the past few days, I have decided to
post a new thread because I cannot find anyone that has posted a
solution to solve my problem.
The only conclusion that I have come to is that this router is junk,
and I would probably be better off without it. Several people have
reported that the router looses its connection on random intervals of
time, for me it is close to every hour.
Please note that I have tried the latest firmware 1.52.02. It amplified
my problems by 10, so I went back to the previous revision that I was
using.
PROBLEM:
I cannot pin-point a specific time that the router looses its
connection, but it happens too often for me. Usually within an hour of
resetting (pull the cord, wait 15+ sec, plug it back in).
The mysterious thing for me is that it only affects the wireless
clients. The hard-wired machines still operate fine. Also, when the
router looses its connection, I cannot access it via its web interface
(192.168.1.1) until I reset it again.
Past Setup
----
Cable Internet Provider connected via "Obtain IP Automatically"
Linksys BEFCMU10 ver.2
Linksys BEFW11S4 ver.4 firmware 1.50.14
(192.168.1.1)
Present Setup
----
DSL Internet Provider connected via "PPPoE"
Netopia 2241N-006
(192.168.1.254)
Linksys BEFW11S4 ver.4 firmware 1.50.14
(192.168.1.1)
Network Setup
----
MacBook Pro uses wire & wireless
(192.168.1.52) & (192.168.1.152)
WinXP PC #1 uses wire only
(192.168.1.4)
MacBook uses wireless only
(192.168.1.188)
WinXP PC #2 uses wireless only
(192.168.1.162)
All machines are manually assigned an IP using the gateway
192.168.1.254.
SPECIFIC QUESTIONS:
Should I use NAT from the linksys router or the DSL modem?
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
The only reason I included my Past Setup was to state that I had no
problems at all with that setup. Everything was working great with an
occasional hiccup, but now I am ready to upgrade if necessary.
This new DSL modem has built-in router features that I was not
accustomed to with my previous modem. I have disabled DHCP on both the
linksys router and the DSL modem. The linksys router has 4 ports plus
the internet (WAN) port. My Past Setup with the cable modem was
connected through the internet port, now with the DSL modem I have it
plugged into one of the 4 normal ports.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I could have something
setup wrong, and if there is any other information that is needed that
I have not provided, please let me know. I wanted to avoid buying
another router, but if that is my last resort then I will do so.
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
In article <1163374740.666941.41290@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>, knuj00@hotmail.com wrote:
> The mysterious thing for me is that it only affects the wireless
> clients. The hard-wired machines still operate fine. Also, when the
> router looses its connection, I cannot access it via its web interface
> (192.168.1.1) until I reset it again.
I know that this gets bandied about like a panacea (you're a Mac guy,
it's like "did you repair your permissions?" which is touted as the
solution to everything in the Mac world) a lot, but it sounds like
telephone interference. 2.4 gig phones in the building?
--
W. Oates
Teal'c: He is concealing something.
O'Neil: Like what?
Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
Yes sir, as a matter of fact we have 3 of them in the house not to
mention 2 cell phones which I am unsure of.... Is there a settting on
the BEFW11S4 that I can change that frequency, or some other solution
to this problem without getting another router? I completely
over-looked this as being a possible problem even though it is in huge
letters on the front of the router. I really appreciate your input for
my stupidity. What are my options?
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
In article <1163377896.014483.324760@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>, knuj00@hotmail.com wrote:
> Yes sir, as a matter of fact we have 3 of them in the house not to
> mention 2 cell phones which I am unsure of.... Is there a settting on
> the BEFW11S4 that I can change that frequency, or some other solution
> to this problem without getting another router? I completely
> over-looked this as being a possible problem even though it is in huge
> letters on the front of the router. I really appreciate your input for
> my stupidity. What are my options?
You can try changing the channels on your router (most default to
channel 6 -- try channel 1 or 11), but the _real_ solution is to move
back to 900 mHz phones, or buy 5.8 gig phones, although I'm told that
those may soon cause trouble.
Try playing with a cordless phone -- see if you can kill your wireless
internet connection by making a phone call. Phones may not be the
problem, but they could be.
--
W. Oates
Teal'c: He is concealing something.
O'Neil: Like what?
Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
On 12 Nov 2006 16:31:37 -0800, knuj00@hotmail.com wrote in
<1163377896.014483.324760@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>:
>Yes sir, as a matter of fact we have 3 of them in the house not to
Likely issue.
>mention 2 cell phones which I am unsure of.... Is there a settting on
Not an issue.
>the BEFW11S4 that I can change that frequency, or some other solution
No.
>to this problem without getting another router?
Only 802.11a (A, not G) would help. Otherwise replace the phones.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:08:23 -0500, Warren Oates
<warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote in
<4557c5d6$0$12774$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>:
>In article <1163377896.014483.324760@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> knuj00@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Yes sir, as a matter of fact we have 3 of them in the house not to
>> mention 2 cell phones which I am unsure of.... Is there a settting on
>> the BEFW11S4 that I can change that frequency, or some other solution
>> to this problem without getting another router? I completely
>> over-looked this as being a possible problem even though it is in huge
>> letters on the front of the router. I really appreciate your input for
>> my stupidity. What are my options?
>
>You can try changing the channels on your router (most default to
>channel 6 -- try channel 1 or 11), but the _real_ solution is to move
>back to 900 mHz phones, or buy 5.8 gig phones, although I'm told that
>those may soon cause trouble.
No, but some 5.8 GHz phones also use 2.4 MHz, so won't help.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
Thanks a lot for the feedback. I will try out the suggestions. Do the
phones have to be in use before they cause a conflict, because we
haven't used the phones all afternoon?
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
On 12 Nov 2006 17:36:58 -0800, knuj00@hotmail.com wrote in
<1163381818.358518.37520@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups. com>:
>Thanks a lot for the feedback. I will try out the suggestions. Do the
>phones have to be in use before they cause a conflict, because we
>haven't used the phones all afternoon?
Some (not all) phones cause interference when the base station checks.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
>The only conclusion that I have come to is that this router is junk,
In my limited experience and having used a BEFW11S4 v4 at home for
about a year, I would say it's junk. I've been told that some of the
non-v4 versions are tolerable, but I have no experience.
>I cannot pin-point a specific time that the router looses its
>connection, but it happens too often for me. Usually within an hour of
>resetting (pull the cord, wait 15+ sec, plug it back in).
>
>The mysterious thing for me is that it only affects the wireless
>clients. The hard-wired machines still operate fine. Also, when the
>router looses its connection, I cannot access it via its web interface
>(192.168.1.1) until I reset it again.
Yep. That's about it. Mine would hang erratically when doing
nothing. It would always hang about 10 minutes after playing
streaming media (video or audio). It would also hang when I tested
stability with a variety of router exploits. When it didn't hang and
appeared to work, one or two wireless clients would magically get
disconnected, could not reconnect, and were locked out until I power
cycled the BEFW11S4 v4. At one point, I was running and AC lamp timer
to cycle the power twice a day to keep it up. I eventually replaced
it with a WRT54G v1.1 running DD-WRT firmware and lived happily ever
after.
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
I enabled NAT on the router and disabled NAT on the modem. The
connection has not failed on the wireless side for almost 12 hours now.
While the cordless phones may be an issue, they have not caused any
problems with my past setup. I felt pretty certain that it had to be
some part of the setup that I had configured incorrectly.
As you have stated Jeff, in the past I can recall the router hanging
shortly after streaming audio/video. The problem I was having was
happening close to every hour no matter what.
Also, the WRT54GS w/speed booster is about the same price as the
WRT54G. If I do replace my router, is it worth getting the one with
speed booster?
>I enabled NAT on the router and disabled NAT on the modem. The
>connection has not failed on the wireless side for almost 12 hours now.
>
>While the cordless phones may be an issue, they have not caused any
>problems with my past setup. I felt pretty certain that it had to be
>some part of the setup that I had configured incorrectly.
There's nothing wrong with double NAT. I have systems with that
arrangement in order to isolate the LAN from the WLAN. It's only
detriment is that some applications have problems going backwards
through both firewalls and require port forwarding on both routers.
Double NAT should not cause hangs and oddities unless you happen to
have both DHCP servers enabled. That will cause problems.
Since you already have a router in the Netopia 2241N,
| http://www.netopia.com/support/hardware/2241.html
there's apparently no need for another one in the BEFW11S4. I suggest
you use the BEFW11s4 as an access point, not a router. Basically,
disable the DHCP server, ignore the WAN port, and connect with a LAN
to LAN cable to the Netopia. See the FAQ at:
| http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi...s_access_point
>As you have stated Jeff, in the past I can recall the router hanging
>shortly after streaming audio/video. The problem I was having was
>happening close to every hour no matter what.
I've seen that on my BEFW11S4 v4 when being attacked or heavily port
scanned from the internet. Could I trouble you to look in the serial
number tag of your BEFW11s4 and kindly disclose the hardware version
number? The V4 is apparently quite different from the others.
>Also, the WRT54GS w/speed booster is about the same price as the
>WRT54G. If I do replace my router, is it worth getting the one with
>speed booster?
Not for the speed boost. However, some of the GS models have more RAM
than the non-GS models. See:
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrt54g
I'm not sure this is a good idea for your derrangement. You already
have a conglomerated DSL modem and router combination in the Netopia.
The major benifit of the WRT54G is the availability of alternative
firmware such as DD-WRT and OpenWRT. Most of the router features in
the WRT54G will be useless as there's no way to bypass the router
section of the Netopia. If you really want to use the WRT54G, you'll
need to replace the Netopia with a common DSL modem. Incidentally,
complications like this are why I like seperate boxes for the modem,
router, and wireless access point.
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:00:16 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<8i8hl2pvco68gevkvuonbbvsel7g9o74tb@4ax.com>:
>knuj00@hotmail.com hath wroth:
>
>>I enabled NAT on the router and disabled NAT on the modem. The
>>connection has not failed on the wireless side for almost 12 hours now.
>>
>>While the cordless phones may be an issue, they have not caused any
>>problems with my past setup. I felt pretty certain that it had to be
>>some part of the setup that I had configured incorrectly.
>
>There's nothing wrong with double NAT. I have systems with that
>arrangement in order to isolate the LAN from the WLAN. It's only
>detriment is that some applications have problems going backwards
>through both firewalls and require port forwarding on both routers.
>Double NAT should not cause hangs and oddities unless you happen to
>have both DHCP servers enabled. That will cause problems.
Double NAT can cause problems with:
* VPN
* SSL
* Applications that break NAT rules
Port forwarding can help overcome NAT problems, but isn't a panacea,
since forwarding a given port can only be done to a single host.
I speak from experience, having had to get rid of double NAT to resolve
problems.
--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
I do not see a hardware version number indicated. Is it tied within the
serial number, if so I'll post that instead.
I have to agree, the root of my problem lies in the FREE modem that was
sent by the ISP. I had service with them several years back when they
sent just a plain DSL modem. Now they try to include everything in one
box, which was an obstacle at first. I still have my old DSL modem, but
unfortunately I lost the power adapter that goes with it. It was an
Alcatel model 3EC18804BCAC05.
The connection has been stable since my last post. I would say it is
going on 24 hours now without loosing the wireless clients. I only have
NAT enabled on the linksys router. DHCP is disabled on both devices
because I prefer to use manual IPs since the network is rather small.
It looks like the linksys router might stick around for a while
afterall. Again, I really appreciate all the information that each of
you have provided.
>I do not see a hardware version number indicated. Is it tied within the
>serial number, if so I'll post that instead.
It probably is tied in with the serial number, but I don't know how to
decode it. However, there's a better way. I'm looking at the bottom
of my BEFW11S4 v4 router. There are TWO serial number tags. One is
Black and silver and says "Model No BEFW11S4 ver. 5". The other is an
all black tag with the "IC ID: 3839A-W11S4V4" and the "FCC ID:
PKW-BEFW11S4V4". If these don't look familiar, please post the FCC ID
number and I'll excavate the hardware version number out of the FCC ID
web pile. However, since you say there's no such number, my guess(tm)
is that you have a V1.0 hardware version, which had no version suffix.
Also possible are v2.0, v3.0, v3.2, and v4.0. However, these should
have suffixes on the label. I've had no experience with the v1.0
model, but the 2.0 and 3.0 appear to be stable. I guess(tm) it's on
the v4 model that's a problem.
>I have to agree, the root of my problem lies in the FREE modem that was
>sent by the ISP.
I've heard that there's no free lunch or modem. Somebody paid for it.
>I had service with them several years back when they
>sent just a plain DSL modem. Now they try to include everything in one
>box, which was an obstacle at first. I still have my old DSL modem, but
>unfortunately I lost the power adapter that goes with it. It was an
>Alcatel model 3EC18804BCAC05.
That's an Alcatel Speed Touch Home. http://www.speedtouch.com/supfaqhome.htm
I have a few of those in the office. Except for a security problem
with the "Expert" mode, and a command line configuration mess with the
"Golden" mode, the later models are tolerable DSL modems. I'll check
the voltage and current on the power adapter when I get to the office
tomorrow.
>The connection has been stable since my last post. I would say it is
>going on 24 hours now without loosing the wireless clients. I only have
>NAT enabled on the linksys router. DHCP is disabled on both devices
>because I prefer to use manual IPs since the network is rather small.
>
>It looks like the linksys router might stick around for a while
>afterall. Again, I really appreciate all the information that each of
>you have provided.
Well, you're probably ok if it holds together. However, I suggest you
reconsider the double NAT. It sorta works, but you don't need it and
can do as well using the BEFW11S4 as an access point instead of a
wireless router.
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
Where I live it was 11/14/2006 1:14 AM, when Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> can do as well using the BEFW11S4 as an access point instead of a
> wireless router.
This brings up an interesting possibility for a spare BEFW11S4 V4 that
is currently collecting dust on a shelf because of streaming problems.
I replaced it with a WRT54G V4 that sits in one end of my house and
does a decent job providing wireless access for most of the house
except the farthest corner from the router. Moving the WRT54G to the
center of the house is not a feasible option. Has anyone taken a
problematic BEFW11S4 and used it as an access point with good results?
Are the problems with the BEFW11S4 only in the router functionality?
Proposal:
1. Ethernet cable between WRT54G and BEFW11S4 (located on opposite
ends of the house)
2. No DHCP or routing in BEFW11S4, use it as a wireless access point only.
3. Set both devices to the same channel? Or one to channel 1 and one
to channel 6 or some similar spread?
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
Plan9 <benzplan9@hotmail.com> hath wroth:
>Where I live it was 11/14/2006 1:14 AM, when Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> can do as well using the BEFW11S4 as an access point instead of a
>> wireless router.
>
>This brings up an interesting possibility for a spare BEFW11S4 V4 that
>is currently collecting dust on a shelf because of streaming problems.
Groan. I never figured out if it was the router section that was
hanging, or the wireless section. I guess you get to find out.
>I replaced it with a WRT54G V4 that sits in one end of my house and
>does a decent job providing wireless access for most of the house
>except the farthest corner from the router.
>Moving the WRT54G to the
>center of the house is not a feasible option. Has anyone taken a
>problematic BEFW11S4 and used it as an access point with good results?
Well, I can try it easily enough here. However, I'm lazy. Give me
about a week.
> Are the problems with the BEFW11S4 only in the router functionality?
We are about to find out. One test is worth considerable guesswork.
>1. Ethernet cable between WRT54G and BEFW11S4 (located on opposite
>ends of the house)
>2. No DHCP or routing in BEFW11S4, use it as a wireless access point only.
>3. Set both devices to the same channel? Or one to channel 1 and one
>to channel 6 or some similar spread?
1 and 2 are fine. The question of using the same channel and same
SSID always comes up. I covered this before, but can't find my rant
on the subject.
If the two radios are totally isolated from each other, you can use
the same channel because they won't interfere. The problem with using
the same channel will ocurr roughly half way between the two radios,
where your laptop is talking to one radio, but hearing interference
from the other. Chances are high that there will be interference at
midpoint even if the routers can't be heard at the endpoints. That
being said, it will probably NOT be a problem if you are the only
user. The only interference generated by an idle access point are the
10 times per second beacons (which I usually slow down to 1 per
second). In other words, you have to have traffic to create
interference. If you have a non-overlapping channel available (that
isn't being used by the neighbors) I would put each radio on different
channels (1, 6, and 11).
The SSID issue is dependent on whether you must have seamless roaming.
Both the same SSID if you want to roam. Different SSID's if you want
to choose which access point to connect.
Most commodity wireless access points do a miserable job of roaming.
You start with a laptop connected to AP1 and start walking toward AP2.
The signal will get worse, the connection speed slows down, the errors
increase, but the stupid client radio will not give up trying to stay
connected to AP1. You could be sitting in front of AP2, but if you
sitll have a signal from AP1, it will stay connected. It really
depends on the client adapter and driver. Intel Proset 10.x does a
nice job of roaming and will grab the strongest signal if possible.
Others are not so nice about roaming. The only way to tell is to try
it.
Re: Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N
Well... the stickers on the bottom of the router says:
Model No. BEFW11S4 ver. 4
S/N: C2760CB13623 E1
FCC ID: PKW-BEFW11S4V4
IC ID: 3839A-W11S4V4
Yea, it would be nice if they would just stick with the simple DSL
modems instead of trying to make a one-stop solution. I suppose for the
majority of their customers it probably is more convenient.
That'd be great if you could get me the stats on the power supply for
the Alcatel modem. I would probably just use it if I am able to find
one for a reasonable price.
The connection stability is still going strong by the way. No glitches
yet.
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> knuj00@hotmail.com hath wroth:
>
> >I do not see a hardware version number indicated. Is it tied within the
> >serial number, if so I'll post that instead.
>
> It probably is tied in with the serial number, but I don't know how to
> decode it. However, there's a better way. I'm looking at the bottom
> of my BEFW11S4 v4 router. There are TWO serial number tags. One is
> Black and silver and says "Model No BEFW11S4 ver. 5". The other is an
> all black tag with the "IC ID: 3839A-W11S4V4" and the "FCC ID:
> PKW-BEFW11S4V4". If these don't look familiar, please post the FCC ID
> number and I'll excavate the hardware version number out of the FCC ID
> web pile. However, since you say there's no such number, my guess(tm)
> is that you have a V1.0 hardware version, which had no version suffix.
> Also possible are v2.0, v3.0, v3.2, and v4.0. However, these should
> have suffixes on the label. I've had no experience with the v1.0
> model, but the 2.0 and 3.0 appear to be stable. I guess(tm) it's on
> the v4 model that's a problem.
>
> >I have to agree, the root of my problem lies in the FREE modem that was
> >sent by the ISP.
>
> I've heard that there's no free lunch or modem. Somebody paid for it.
>
> >I had service with them several years back when they
> >sent just a plain DSL modem. Now they try to include everything in one
> >box, which was an obstacle at first. I still have my old DSL modem, but
> >unfortunately I lost the power adapter that goes with it. It was an
> >Alcatel model 3EC18804BCAC05.
>
> That's an Alcatel Speed Touch Home.
> http://www.speedtouch.com/supfaqhome.htm
> I have a few of those in the office. Except for a security problem
> with the "Expert" mode, and a command line configuration mess with the
> "Golden" mode, the later models are tolerable DSL modems. I'll check
> the voltage and current on the power adapter when I get to the office
> tomorrow.
>
> >The connection has been stable since my last post. I would say it is
> >going on 24 hours now without loosing the wireless clients. I only have
> >NAT enabled on the linksys router. DHCP is disabled on both devices
> >because I prefer to use manual IPs since the network is rather small.
> >
> >It looks like the linksys router might stick around for a while
> >afterall. Again, I really appreciate all the information that each of
> >you have provided.
>
> Well, you're probably ok if it holds together. However, I suggest you
> reconsider the double NAT. It sorta works, but you don't need it and
> can do as well using the BEFW11S4 as an access point instead of a
> wireless router.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>That'd be great if you could get me the stats on the power supply for
>the Alcatel modem. I would probably just use it if I am able to find
>one for a reasonable price.
Output is 9VDC 1000ma, center pin positive.
The connector is 5.0mm od and 2.1mm center pin.
The specific model number is:
Ault Inc.
P48091000A040G
Ebay shows one hit at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=230036699
but there are others all over the internet.
>The connection stability is still going strong by the way. No glitches
>yet.
Y'er lucky. Mine would go fine for several days, then hang several
times the next day. It was really erratic. I'd be interested if
yours continues to work well.
Unstable connection using a Linksys BEFW11S4 and Netopia 2241N 
Linear Mode
