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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2007, 01:43 AM
TSMC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Vista conection problem?

Posted this earlier in a M$ group with no replies
(I think mine was the only post in the group! :(...)

Home network layout

DSL --> router front w/wireless(DHCP) --> router back w/wireless (Access
point)
| |
| |
3 computers/ XP Pro 2 computers/ MMC2005
wired XP Home wired W2K
MMC2005



All wired computers shared with no problems, internet no problems.
Wireless computers running Win98, XP Home, XP MMC 2005 can connect to front
or back routers no network or internet problems.

My new Vista Home Premium laptop will not connect to internet OR home
network while wireless to the back router!

I do get a valid IP from my DHCP and the Vista laptop shows up on the other
computers network (although not accessible).

Tried turning off Norton IS 2007 ACER network managment and windows
firewall.
Even though I am connected with a valid IP, I can not open the routers setup
page or even ping it!

"reply from (local IP) Destination host unreachable"

The Vista laptop CAN wireless into the front router with no problems, also,
I can hard wire into the front or back router with no problems!

NOTE; No Problems = Local network and Internet access...

Any ideas?
Thanks in advance

Update;

Front router is D link 614+ wep 128bit hex
Back router is D Link 624+ wep 128 bit hex
Both current firmware from D Link site.

624+ router prefered in back for faster wireless speed to stream video from
media center computer(s)

Swapped routers, DHCP still front router (now 624+). Access point back
router(now 614+).
Network connectivity is good on both, but video is choppy due to slow W/L
speed of the 614+ router. Looks good when W/L connected to the 624+ router.

Is this a Vista or old router problem?

I want my videos by the pool!
Any suggestions?

TSMC




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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2007, 04:46 AM
Mr. Arnold
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Vista conection problem?

I guess this one was so strange. the OP didn't get a response in two NG(s).
:)


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2007, 06:08 AM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Vista conection problem?

On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:43:32 -0400, "TSMC" <noemailhere@tsmc.net>
wrote:

>Posted this earlier in a M$ group with no replies
>(I think mine was the only post in the group! :(...)
>
>Home network layout
>
>DSL --> router front w/wireless(DHCP) --> router back w/wireless (Access
>point)
> | |
> | |
>3 computers/ XP Pro 2 computers/ MMC2005
> wired XP Home wired W2K
> MMC2005


Do you really have 5 computers at home?

>All wired computers shared with no problems, internet no problems.
>Wireless computers running Win98, XP Home, XP MMC 2005 can connect to front
>or back routers no network or internet problems.
>
>My new Vista Home Premium laptop will not connect to internet OR home
>network while wireless to the back router!


Make and model of Vista laptop?
Make and model of wireless device inside the Vista laptop?
It probably doesn't matter for this question, but it's nice to know in
case there are known bugs or problems.

>I do get a valid IP from my DHCP and the Vista laptop shows up on the other
>computers network (although not accessible).


How are the two wireless routers wired together? What ports go where?

>Tried turning off Norton IS 2007 ACER network managment and windows
>firewall.


You can't really turn off Norton 2007. I spent a frustrating
afternoon trying to untangle a similar connectivity problem on an XP
Home laptop. I finally gave up and uninstalled Norton, which in
itself was a major ordeal. That worked. In retrospect, there was
nothing really wrong with Norton Personal Internet Security, but I
couldn't figure out how to configure Norton's firewall so that it
would work. Rather than RTFM, I just ripped it out.

>Even though I am connected with a valid IP, I can not open the routers setup
>page or even ping it!


Yet, the router delivered a valid IP address. Well, you say it's
valid, but it might not be. Could I trouble you to disclose the
routers IP address and netmask, as well as the results from IPCONFIG
on the Vista machine? You might want to compare the results of
IPCONFIG on the working machines with the Vista machine, especially
the gateway IP.

>"reply from (local IP) Destination host unreachable"


Excellent. That means there's no route to the target IP address. Run:
Start -> run -> cmd <enter>
route print
and see where the packets are suppose to be going. My guess is that
you have two routers with DHCP servers enabled and one of these is
pointing the gateway to itself, which goes nowhere.

>The Vista laptop CAN wireless into the front router with no problems, also,
>I can hard wire into the front or back router with no problems!
>
>NOTE; No Problems = Local network and Internet access...


So, the only thing that does NOT work is a wireless connection between
the Vista laptop and the back router (DI-624+)? Wired and wireless
both work to the front router (DI-614+). Is this correct?

If so, my second guess(tm) is you really don't have a proper WEP key
to the back router. There are problems going from the ASCII WEP key
to Hex. Type in the WEP in Hex, not ASCII and it will always work.
Even though you claim you have a wireless connection and an IP
address, I don't quite believe it because you are unable to ping the
very device that claims to have delivered the IP address to the Vista
laptop. That's not possible. If it gave your laptop an IP address,
you should be able to ping it.

Incidentally, you might want to simplify troubleshooting by unplugging
the unused front router (DI-624+) until you get the problems with the
back router untangled. If you've done something disgusting, like
enable the DHCP server in both routers, you're going to have weird
route problems.

>Update;
>
>Front router is D link 614+ wep 128bit hex
>Back router is D Link 624+ wep 128 bit hex
>Both current firmware from D Link site.


When you get things working, I strongly suggest you abandon WEP and
switch to WPA or WPA2. WEP can be easily cracked and is nearly
worthless for security.

>624+ router prefered in back for faster wireless speed to stream video from
>media center computer(s)


Bingo. Setup the DI-614+ (802.11b only) as an access point, not as a
router. Disable the DHCP server, setup the IP addres to not conflict
with the DI-624+, and connect a cable between LAN ports on both boxes.
You don't want 2 routers in the system. I'm assuming your broadband
connection is plugged into the DI-624+.

>Swapped routers, DHCP still front router (now 624+). Access point back
>router(now 614+).
>Network connectivity is good on both, but video is choppy due to slow W/L
>speed of the 614+ router. Looks good when W/L connected to the 624+ router.


See above suggestion. You have 2 DHCP servers and 2 routers which is
generally a lousy idea. It can be made to work, but there's no reason
for it. Convert the DI-614+ into an access point and be done with it.

>Is this a Vista or old router problem?


Neigher. It's a configuration issue with your two routers.

>I want my videos by the pool!


Sink or swim?

>Any suggestions?


In the future, you'll get better answers if you organize your
questions somewhat differently:
1. What are you trying to accomplish? One line is fine.
2. What to you have to work with? Hardware, software, version
numbers.
3. What have you tried and what happened? Error messages.

Your question had all the above and then some, but was organized so
that it read best starting from the bottom of the message.
--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2007, 02:36 PM
TSMC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Vista conection problem?

Jeff;
Thank you for your reply. From your comments, you are FAR more knwolagable
in the technical aspects of networking than I. You seem to be the goto guy
in this NG.
I still want to call this a Vista problem, although after installing a
new(er) router in the 'back' posittion, I am able to achive full
conectivity. (D-Link WBR-1310)

1. Yes I have 5 desktop computers in the house plus 2 laptops in residence
as well as 2 part time laptop computers.

2. The Laptop in question is an AcerAspire 5610 running Vista Home Premium.
The wireless adapter shows up in the device manager as an Atheros AR500G.
Driver 7.2.0.179 dated 3/17/2007.

3. Router #1 DHCP enabled (DI-614+) WAN to DSL - LAN port 1 to LAN port 1 on
router #2 DHCP DISabled (DI-624+) WAN port is open (No connection)
<router #2 changed to D-Link WBR-1310, problem solved>

4. I have not used 'Route Print' before. Here arer the results, but the
connection is working at this time. I will reinstall the problem router and
post the route print results if you are still interested in this problem...
You are correct, the problem is /was only wireless connection to the DI-624+
(set as access point only) with the VISTA laptop! XP home and WIN98 laptops
as well as a wireless web camera did not have any connection
issues.auctions@tsmc.net
One thing I do note on the route table, The access point router that the
laptop is connected to is not showing up.
Router #1 DHCP/WAN connected
192.168.0.1
subnet 255.255.255.0
Router #2 Access point
192.168.0.2
subnet 255.255.255.0
All wired computers are static IP
192.168.0.10 ~16 (1 computer has 2 NICs and a wireless web camera is also
configured with a statip IP for access from the internet .)
255.255.255.0


IPv4 Route Table
================================================== =========================
Active Routes:
Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.102 25
127.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
127.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
192.168.0.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.0.102 281
192.168.0.102 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.0.102 281
192.168.0.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.0.102 281
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 On-link 192.168.0.102 281
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 127.0.0.1 306
255.255.255.255 255.255.255.255 On-link 192.168.0.102 281
================================================== =========================
Persistent Routes:
None

IPv6 Route Table
================================================== =========================
Active Routes:
If Metric Network Destination Gateway
1 306 ::1/128 On-link
10 286 fe80::/64 On-link
12 286 fe80::5efe:192.168.0.102/128
On-link
10 286 fe80::38e3:154a:bb2e:48f7/128
On-link
1 306 ff00::/8 On-link
10 286 ff00::/8 On-link
================================================== =========================
Persistent Routes:
None

5. As for the Hex keys for each router, I typed then manually 1 time and
used copy/paste from a flash drive to set up the laptops as well as the
routers.
I know the virtues of WPA and WPA-2, however nither the DI-614+ or DI-624+
routers support WPA.

I know this a complicated setup, but I can assure you at no time did I
enable more than 1 DHCP server, my encryption keys are and were correct, and
I smoked it, but did not inhale!
:)

Tom...
auctions@tsmc.net
http://tsmc.net



"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in message
news:4s0263trp4i0k5lfksnd88f3viro32o7n9@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 May 2007 21:43:32 -0400, "TSMC" <noemailhere@tsmc.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Posted this earlier in a M$ group with no replies
>>(I think mine was the only post in the group! :(...)
>>
>>Home network layout
>>
>>DSL --> router front w/wireless(DHCP) --> router back w/wireless (Access
>>point)
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> |
>>3 computers/ XP Pro 2 computers/ MMC2005
>> wired XP Home wired W2K
>> MMC2005

>
> Do you really have 5 computers at home?
>
>>All wired computers shared with no problems, internet no problems.
>>Wireless computers running Win98, XP Home, XP MMC 2005 can connect to
>>front
>>or back routers no network or internet problems.
>>
>>My new Vista Home Premium laptop will not connect to internet OR home
>>network while wireless to the back router!

>
> Make and model of Vista laptop?
> Make and model of wireless device inside the Vista laptop?
> It probably doesn't matter for this question, but it's nice to know in
> case there are known bugs or problems.
>
>>I do get a valid IP from my DHCP and the Vista laptop shows up on the
>>other
>>computers network (although not accessible).

>
> How are the two wireless routers wired together? What ports go where?
>
>>Tried turning off Norton IS 2007 ACER network managment and windows
>>firewall.

>
> You can't really turn off Norton 2007. I spent a frustrating
> afternoon trying to untangle a similar connectivity problem on an XP
> Home laptop. I finally gave up and uninstalled Norton, which in
> itself was a major ordeal. That worked. In retrospect, there was
> nothing really wrong with Norton Personal Internet Security, but I
> couldn't figure out how to configure Norton's firewall so that it
> would work. Rather than RTFM, I just ripped it out.
>
>>Even though I am connected with a valid IP, I can not open the routers
>>setup
>>page or even ping it!

>
> Yet, the router delivered a valid IP address. Well, you say it's
> valid, but it might not be. Could I trouble you to disclose the
> routers IP address and netmask, as well as the results from IPCONFIG
> on the Vista machine? You might want to compare the results of
> IPCONFIG on the working machines with the Vista machine, especially
> the gateway IP.
>
>>"reply from (local IP) Destination host unreachable"

>
> Excellent. That means there's no route to the target IP address. Run:
> Start -> run -> cmd <enter>
> route print
> and see where the packets are suppose to be going. My guess is that
> you have two routers with DHCP servers enabled and one of these is
> pointing the gateway to itself, which goes nowhere.
>
>>The Vista laptop CAN wireless into the front router with no problems,
>>also,
>>I can hard wire into the front or back router with no problems!
>>
>>NOTE; No Problems = Local network and Internet access...

>
> So, the only thing that does NOT work is a wireless connection between
> the Vista laptop and the back router (DI-624+)? Wired and wireless
> both work to the front router (DI-614+). Is this correct?
>
> If so, my second guess(tm) is you really don't have a proper WEP key
> to the back router. There are problems going from the ASCII WEP key
> to Hex. Type in the WEP in Hex, not ASCII and it will always work.
> Even though you claim you have a wireless connection and an IP
> address, I don't quite believe it because you are unable to ping the
> very device that claims to have delivered the IP address to the Vista
> laptop. That's not possible. If it gave your laptop an IP address,
> you should be able to ping it.
>
> Incidentally, you might want to simplify troubleshooting by unplugging
> the unused front router (DI-624+) until you get the problems with the
> back router untangled. If you've done something disgusting, like
> enable the DHCP server in both routers, you're going to have weird
> route problems.
>
>>Update;
>>
>>Front router is D link 614+ wep 128bit hex
>>Back router is D Link 624+ wep 128 bit hex
>>Both current firmware from D Link site.

>
> When you get things working, I strongly suggest you abandon WEP and
> switch to WPA or WPA2. WEP can be easily cracked and is nearly
> worthless for security.
>
>>624+ router prefered in back for faster wireless speed to stream video
>>from
>>media center computer(s)

>
> Bingo. Setup the DI-614+ (802.11b only) as an access point, not as a
> router. Disable the DHCP server, setup the IP addres to not conflict
> with the DI-624+, and connect a cable between LAN ports on both boxes.
> You don't want 2 routers in the system. I'm assuming your broadband
> connection is plugged into the DI-624+.
>
>>Swapped routers, DHCP still front router (now 624+). Access point back
>>router(now 614+).
>>Network connectivity is good on both, but video is choppy due to slow W/L
>>speed of the 614+ router. Looks good when W/L connected to the 624+
>>router.

>
> See above suggestion. You have 2 DHCP servers and 2 routers which is
> generally a lousy idea. It can be made to work, but there's no reason
> for it. Convert the DI-614+ into an access point and be done with it.
>
>>Is this a Vista or old router problem?

>
> Neigher. It's a configuration issue with your two routers.
>
>>I want my videos by the pool!

>
> Sink or swim?
>
>>Any suggestions?

>
> In the future, you'll get better answers if you organize your
> questions somewhat differently:
> 1. What are you trying to accomplish? One line is fine.
> 2. What to you have to work with? Hardware, software, version
> numbers.
> 3. What have you tried and what happened? Error messages.
>
> Your question had all the above and then some, but was organized so
> that it read best starting from the bottom of the message.
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS




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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2007, 04:27 PM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Vista conection problem?

"TSMC" <noemailhere@tsmc.net> hath wroth:

>I still want to call this a Vista problem, although after installing a
>new(er) router in the 'back' posittion, I am able to achive full
>conectivity. (D-Link WBR-1310)


I'm in a rush today. Short remarks only.

>3. Router #1 DHCP enabled (DI-614+) WAN to DSL - LAN port 1 to LAN port 1 on
>router #2 DHCP DISabled (DI-624+) WAN port is open (No connection)
><router #2 changed to D-Link WBR-1310, problem solved>


OK, that's correct. You have the DI-614+ acting as a router and the
DI-624+ as an access point (no router).

>You are correct, the problem is /was only wireless connection to the DI-624+
>(set as access point only) with the VISTA laptop! XP home and WIN98 laptops
>as well as a wireless web camera did not have any connection


The other devices will not show up on the Vista client's router table.
They will only show up on the routers (DI-614+) router table (if
available).

>IPv4 Route Table
>================================================= ==========================
>Active Routes:
>Network Destination Netmask Gateway Interface Metric
> 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.102 25

Ok, that's your default route to the DI-614+. The Vista laptop has a
single IP address assigned as 192.168.0.102. I can't tell if it's the
ethernet or wireless from the list.

> 192.168.0.0 255.255.255.0 On-link 192.168.0.102 281

That's the route to your local network which looks correct.

>5. As for the Hex keys for each router, I typed then manually 1 time and
>used copy/paste from a flash drive to set up the laptops as well as the
>routers.


Typed them in Hex or ASCII? If you're going to use WEP, you might as
well resign yourself to using Hex keys because you will eventually run
into a device that has a different idea of how to convert from ASCII
to Hex. I know of 3 ways this was being done and possibly a 4th. MS
only supports one way.

>I know the virtues of WPA and WPA-2, however nither the DI-614+ or DI-624+
>routers support WPA.


Both the DI-614+ and DI-624 *DO* support WPA. See data sheet at:
<http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=6>
Incidentally, note that there's no + in the designation. You can see
the WPA-PSK button for the DI-614+ at:
<http://support.dlink.com/emulators/di614+_revB/h_wireless.html>
Like I said: Assumption, the mother of all screwups. Again, I
strongly suggest you switch to WPA or WPA2.

>I know this a complicated setup, but I can assure you at no time did I
>enable more than 1 DHCP server, my encryption keys are and were correct, and
>I smoked it, but did not inhale!


Everything is correct, but it still doesn't work. It just might be a
Vista issue, but I can't tell. The way I troubleshoot complex systems
is to reduce them to their simplest form and then build them up to the
original configuration in small steps. I would concentrate on why the
Vista laptop and DI-614+ apparently did not communicate. However, why
bother? The DI-614+ is only 802.11b speeds while your new WBR1310
goes at 802.11g speeds. Sell the DI-614+ and you're done.

Incidentally, the WBR-1310 is a repackaged DI-524. Look on the serial
number tag at the FCC ID. This might be entertaining but confusing
reading:
<http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15995077>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2007, 04:13 PM
kev
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Vista conection problem?

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> "TSMC" <noemailhere@tsmc.net> hath wroth:
>
>> I still want to call this a Vista problem, although after installing a
>> new(er) router in the 'back' posittion, I am able to achive full
>> conectivity. (D-Link WBR-1310)

>
>Snip
>
> Everything is correct, but it still doesn't work. It just might be a
> Vista issue, but I can't tell. The way I troubleshoot complex systems
> is to reduce them to their simplest form and then build them up to the
> original configuration in small steps. I would concentrate on why the
> Vista laptop and DI-614+ apparently did not communicate. However, why
> bother? The DI-614+ is only 802.11b speeds while your new WBR1310
> goes at 802.11g speeds. Sell the DI-614+ and you're done.
>
> Incidentally, the WBR-1310 is a repackaged DI-524. Look on the serial
> number tag at the FCC ID. This might be entertaining but confusing
> reading:
> <http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15995077>
>
>

But for the fact he got an IP address I was beginning to think he had
come across this oddity:-
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928233

It would have been nice to know which routers had been found to have
this problem.



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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2007, 05:29 PM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Vista conection problem?

kev <invalid@invalid.invalid> hath wroth:

>But for the fact he got an IP address I was beginning to think he had
>come across this oddity:-
>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928233
>
>It would have been nice to know which routers had been found to have
>this problem.


Successfully getting an IP address means that DHCP is working.

Methinks this DHCP/BOOTP query tool might show which ones are a
problem:
<http://www.weirdsolutions.com/weirdSolutions/files/products/desktopSoftware/desktopQueryTool/querytool_free.exe>
If I find a culprit, I'll try it.

I did some googling for "DhcpConnDisableBcastFlagToggle" and found one
complaint about a BT wireless Hub. Nothing else.

It also appears that Cisco might be a problem. Difficult to tell for
sure:
<http://blogs.technet.com/teamdhcp/archive/2006/11/08/use-of-broadcast-b-flag-in-dhcp.aspx>
I'm not very happy with the replies by TeamDHCP. They seem to skirt
the questions asked.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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