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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2007, 11:17 PM
gglave@softtracks.com
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Default Weatherproof Enclosure?

Hi there,

I'm looking for a source for a waterproof enclosure so I can place a
Linksys router outside, i.e. something like this:
http://tinyurl.com/y7g7v6

I tried Hyperlink Technologies ( http://www.hyperlinktech.com/ ) - The
pic above is from their site. They seem to have a good range of
products, but they're a wholesaler, so they sent me to their dealer,
Sharper Concepts, ( www.sharperconcepts.net ). Sharper Concepts won't
answer my pre-sale questions, so I need to find something else.

In a nutshell, I'm looking for a waterproof enclosure in order to
enclose a Linksys WRT54G wireless access point along with a Linksys
power-over-ethernet adapter ( http://tinyurl.com/y68tf9 )

The enclosure will be in the Pacific Northwest or North America
(Vancouver Island) so lots of rain. Temperature range could go down as
low as -10C in Winter and up to +25C in the summer.

Any suggestions? I know I could build something, but I'd prefer to buy
something as I'm short on time.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2007, 11:54 PM
rieker
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?


> In a nutshell, I'm looking for a waterproof enclosure in order to
> enclose a Linksys WRT54G wireless access point along with a Linksys
> power-over-ethernet adapter ( http://tinyurl.com/y68tf9 )


Have you seen this from Linksys?

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 12:41 AM
NetSteady
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

Geoff,

Never, ever, put a linksys router outside. Tried it once and when it
got cold it stopped working.

BTW, Hyperlink should sell direct, they did to me before.... but that
was B2B sales.

Chris


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 01:05 AM
gglave@softtracks.com
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?


> Have you seen this from Linksys?
>
> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper


I have, but I've read some reviews that suggest it's a little flakey -
Plus, I'm hoping to flash the router with new software (increase the
xmit power) and I'm not sure if the firmware flashes support that unit.

Thanks for the suggestion - It's my 'fallback' position.

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 01:06 AM
gglave@softtracks.com
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

> BTW, Hyperlink should sell direct, they did to me before.... but that
> was B2B sales.


Yeah, but I'm in Canada, and therfore 'international', which means I
have to order $250 USD worth of gear. I'm not sure the box will come
to that much.

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 01:49 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

"rieker" <rieker5.nospam.ever@google.com> hath wroth:

>Have you seen this from Linksys?
>http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper


WAP54GPE is about $380.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 03:54 AM
atec
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

Johann Beretta wrote:
> On 19 Jan 2007 16:17:56 -0800, gglave@softtracks.com wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I'm looking for a source for a waterproof enclosure so I can place a
>> Linksys router outside, i.e. something like this:
>> http://tinyurl.com/y7g7v6
>>

> <snip>
>
> I've had a Linksys WAP54G in a regular old NEMA 4 box for 2 years now and
> haven't had a problem. They are available at home depot for about $30. I put in
> a small fan to keep the unit cool in summer (120F temps here) and it has worked
> fine, even when the temp has dipped to 13F during the winter. It's probably not
> the best solution, but it was quick and easy and it has worked. I just took the
> extra precaution of sealing everything with a bead of silicone, just to be extra
> safe.

I flipped a tupaware cookie jar upside down , painted it white and stuck
the router inside , so far over 12 months in heat up to 40 deg heat and
not a problem.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 04:39 AM
decaturtxcowboy
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

NetSteady wrote:
> Geoff,
>
> Never, ever, put a linksys router outside. Tried it once and when it
> got cold it stopped working.


Don't know how cold you're talking about, but have a Linksys WRT54G tucked
up under an eaves and inside a simple Walmart cover plastic bin to keep the
dust out and its been working fine for two weekes with daytime temps below
freezing.



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 04:55 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

gglave@softtracks.com hath wroth:

>I'm looking for a source for a waterproof enclosure so I can place a
>Linksys router outside, i.e. something like this:
>http://tinyurl.com/y7g7v6


<http://www.stahlin.com>
Lots of choices. Actually, too many choices. All are either PVC,
PolyCarbonate, or fiberglass. No metal. Try the "CL" series or
"classic series" which are cheap.
<http://www.stahlin.com/DisplaySelConfig.cfm?navid=1&sublinkid=6&familyid= 1&configid=176&CFID=152464&CFTOKEN=36508898>
Plastic is kinda nifty because you can mount the antenna inside. Try
to avoid building an oven. I posted some rubbish on how to deal with
heat issues in the past. For example:
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/browse_frm/thread/5c3e8e11d30ac0a6/0916279de4a3ea22?tvc=1&hl=en#0916279de4a3ea22>
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/browse_frm/thread/893a4abb6997046/5374bcd914fd4661?tvc=1&hl=en#5374bcd914fd4661>
etc...

>In a nutshell, I'm looking for a waterproof enclosure in order to
>enclose a Linksys WRT54G wireless access point along with a Linksys
>power-over-ethernet adapter ( http://tinyurl.com/y68tf9 )


You don't need a PoE adapter with a WRT54G. The internal swithcing
regulator has a very wide range of applied voltage. It will run on
anything between about 4VDC and 18VDC. Here's a photo of a similar
unit (BEFW11S4) with the same switcher running on 3.6VDC:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/low-volt.html>
Basically, just hot wire the extra 4 wires in the CAT5 cable to the
circular power connector on the WRT54G. Connect the other end to the
12VDC wall wart or battery. You'll have some loss in the CAT5, but
the WRT54G will run anyway. Incidentally, I've been running some of
my WRT54G installs using a 6V gel cell and a charger. It's a bit
easier and cheaper than 12V (but not much).

>The enclosure will be in the Pacific Northwest or North America
>(Vancouver Island) so lots of rain. Temperature range could go down as
>low as -10C in Winter and up to +25C in the summer.


I don't know much about dealing with cold weather. The People's
Republic of Santa Cruz has very temperate weather. If you can manage
it, install a bicycle valve in the case, seal the box, and pressurize
it with a bicycle pump or small compressor to a few PSI above ambient
pressure. That should keep out any water.

>Any suggestions? I know I could build something, but I'd prefer to buy
>something as I'm short on time.


Bah. Drill a few holes and do it thyself.

More:
<http://www.sveasoft.com/articles/armored/>
This is 7 pages long. Hit "next" in lower right corner. Ignore the
PoE stuff.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 05:03 AM
Al Dykes
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

In article <u9a3r297sdr7npnqfoep17m6rbdlpam7im@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>gglave@softtracks.com hath wroth:
>
>>I'm looking for a source for a waterproof enclosure so I can place a
>>Linksys router outside, i.e. something like this:
>>http://tinyurl.com/y7g7v6

>
><http://www.stahlin.com>
>Lots of choices. Actually, too many choices. All are either PVC,
>PolyCarbonate, or fiberglass. No metal. Try the "CL" series or
>"classic series" which are cheap.
><http://www.stahlin.com/DisplaySelConfig.cfm?navid=1&sublinkid=6&familyid= 1&configid=176&CFID=152464&CFTOKEN=36508898>
>Plastic is kinda nifty because you can mount the antenna inside. Try
>to avoid building an oven. I posted some rubbish on how to deal with
>heat issues in the past. For example:
><http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/browse_frm/thread/5c3e8e11d30ac0a6/0916279de4a3ea22?tvc=1&hl=en#0916279de4a3ea22>
><http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/browse_frm/thread/893a4abb6997046/5374bcd914fd4661?tvc=1&hl=en#5374bcd914fd4661>
>etc...
>
>>In a nutshell, I'm looking for a waterproof enclosure in order to
>>enclose a Linksys WRT54G wireless access point along with a Linksys
>>power-over-ethernet adapter ( http://tinyurl.com/y68tf9 )

>
>You don't need a PoE adapter with a WRT54G. The internal swithcing
>regulator has a very wide range of applied voltage. It will run on
>anything between about 4VDC and 18VDC. Here's a photo of a similar
>unit (BEFW11S4) with the same switcher running on 3.6VDC:
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/low-volt.html>
>Basically, just hot wire the extra 4 wires in the CAT5 cable to the
>circular power connector on the WRT54G. Connect the other end to the
>12VDC wall wart or battery. You'll have some loss in the CAT5, but
>the WRT54G will run anyway. Incidentally, I've been running some of
>my WRT54G installs using a 6V gel cell and a charger. It's a bit
>easier and cheaper than 12V (but not much).
>
>>The enclosure will be in the Pacific Northwest or North America
>>(Vancouver Island) so lots of rain. Temperature range could go down as
>>low as -10C in Winter and up to +25C in the summer.

>
>I don't know much about dealing with cold weather. The People's
>Republic of Santa Cruz has very temperate weather. If you can manage
>it, install a bicycle valve in the case, seal the box, and pressurize
>it with a bicycle pump or small compressor to a few PSI above ambient
>pressure. That should keep out any water.
>
>>Any suggestions? I know I could build something, but I'd prefer to buy
>>something as I'm short on time.

>
>Bah. Drill a few holes and do it thyself.
>
>More:
><http://www.sveasoft.com/articles/armored/>
>This is 7 pages long. Hit "next" in lower right corner. Ignore the
>PoE stuff.
>



There are antenna builders that claim that plastic that isn't spec'ed
for RF may not be as "transparent" as we would like.

FWIW.

It wouldn't be hard to test a box that you'd like to use for
attenuation. netstumbler and other WiFi sniffer software report DB
signal strength.



--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Harrison for Congress in NY 13CD www.harrison06.com
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 05:05 AM
Al Dykes
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

In article <u9a3r297sdr7npnqfoep17m6rbdlpam7im@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>gglave@softtracks.com hath wroth:
>
>>I'm looking for a source for a waterproof enclosure so I can place a
>>Linksys router outside, i.e. something like this:
>>http://tinyurl.com/y7g7v6

>
><http://www.stahlin.com>
>Lots of choices. Actually, too many choices. All are either PVC,
>PolyCarbonate, or fiberglass. No metal. Try the "CL" series or
>"classic series" which are cheap.
><http://www.stahlin.com/DisplaySelConfig.cfm?navid=1&sublinkid=6&familyid= 1&configid=176&CFID=152464&CFTOKEN=36508898>
>Plastic is kinda nifty because you can mount the antenna inside. Try
>to avoid building an oven. I posted some rubbish on how to deal with
>heat issues in the past. For example:
><http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/browse_frm/thread/5c3e8e11d30ac0a6/0916279de4a3ea22?tvc=1&hl=en#0916279de4a3ea22>
><http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/browse_frm/thread/893a4abb6997046/5374bcd914fd4661?tvc=1&hl=en#5374bcd914fd4661>
>etc...
>
>>In a nutshell, I'm looking for a waterproof enclosure in order to
>>enclose a Linksys WRT54G wireless access point along with a Linksys
>>power-over-ethernet adapter ( http://tinyurl.com/y68tf9 )

>
>You don't need a PoE adapter with a WRT54G. The internal swithcing
>regulator has a very wide range of applied voltage. It will run on
>anything between about 4VDC and 18VDC. Here's a photo of a similar
>unit (BEFW11S4) with the same switcher running on 3.6VDC:
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/low-volt.html>
>Basically, just hot wire the extra 4 wires in the CAT5 cable to the
>circular power connector on the WRT54G. Connect the other end to the
>12VDC wall wart or battery. You'll have some loss in the CAT5, but
>the WRT54G will run anyway. Incidentally, I've been running some of
>my WRT54G installs using a 6V gel cell and a charger. It's a bit
>easier and cheaper than 12V (but not much).



google for "diy poe" and you'll come up with some diagrams.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Harrison for Congress in NY 13CD www.harrison06.com
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 05:29 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

decaturtxcowboy <nope_none_@nowayspam.com> hath wroth:

>NetSteady wrote:
>> Geoff,
>>
>> Never, ever, put a linksys router outside. Tried it once and when it
>> got cold it stopped working.


We just had a few days below freezing in the area. Of the 8 assorted
outdoor routers of various types, none even showed any sign of a
problem. Also, no water in the coax cables. However, I did have a
PVC mounting pipe that had some water in the bottom, which froze, and
then split open.

>Don't know how cold you're talking about, but have a Linksys WRT54G tucked
>up under an eaves and inside a simple Walmart cover plastic bin to keep the
>dust out and its been working fine for two weekes with daytime temps below
>freezing.


About a year ago, Floyd L. Davidson mentioned that he had an outdoor
WRT54G router inside some kind of enclosure running in cold weather.
He's in Ukpeagvik (Barrow), Alaska which qualifies as very cold.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find the specific article in the Google
Groups archives.

The reason it works is simple. There's about 6 watts of heat coming
out of the board. In a closed small enclosure, that's quite a bit of
heat. It will keep the board fairly warm and generally dry. As long
as no moisture condenses on the board, it will work just fine.
Meltdown at high summer temperatures is a more serious problem. It's
quite easy to turn such a box into an oven.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 05:40 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) hath wroth:

>There are antenna builders that claim that plastic that isn't spec'ed
>for RF may not be as "transparent" as we would like.


True. However, we have a very easy test to see how much RF the
plastic will absorb. Shove a sample of the plastic into a microwave
oven. Insert a glass of water to keep from arcing the magnetron. If
the plastic gets hot, melts, or catches fire, it's unsuitable for RF
at 2.4Ghz.

>FWIW.


It's worth quite a bit. PVC tends to get doped with all manner of
disgusting fillers some of which will dissipate RF. For example,
black plastic PVC pipe is mostly graphite, which is the last thing you
would want in the antenna path. However, if you don't want the
antenna inside, just mount it outside. End of problem.

>It wouldn't be hard to test a box that you'd like to use for
>attenuation. netstumbler and other WiFi sniffer software report DB
>signal strength.


Actually, it's VERY hard to do that with those tools. It's very
difficult to do comparative measurements due to the sensitivity of the
antenna test range to reflections, movement, small changes in
position, and even temperature stability of the wireless devices. I
consider myself quite fortunately if I can repeat an antenna test
measurement to within 3dB.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 05:49 AM
Al Dykes
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

In article <81e3r215gveuvj35hedir73e3rn8sn13kv@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) hath wroth:
>
>>There are antenna builders that claim that plastic that isn't spec'ed
>>for RF may not be as "transparent" as we would like.

>
>True. However, we have a very easy test to see how much RF the
>plastic will absorb. Shove a sample of the plastic into a microwave
>oven. Insert a glass of water to keep from arcing the magnetron. If
>the plastic gets hot, melts, or catches fire, it's unsuitable for RF
>at 2.4Ghz.
>
>>FWIW.

>
>It's worth quite a bit. PVC tends to get doped with all manner of
>disgusting fillers some of which will dissipate RF. For example,
>black plastic PVC pipe is mostly graphite, which is the last thing you
>would want in the antenna path. However, if you don't want the
>antenna inside, just mount it outside. End of problem.
>
>>It wouldn't be hard to test a box that you'd like to use for
>>attenuation. netstumbler and other WiFi sniffer software report DB
>>signal strength.

>
>Actually, it's VERY hard to do that with those tools. It's very
>difficult to do comparative measurements due to the sensitivity of the
>antenna test range to reflections, movement, small changes in



What's so hard. Put the AP in a table, put a laptop with netstumbler
on a table far enough away to get a middle reading and then go back
and put the plastic box over the AP. Don't move anything. walk back to
the laptop. look at the graph.

I agree that, in general antenna measurements are a PITA.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Harrison for Congress in NY 13CD www.harrison06.com
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 06:26 AM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) hath wroth:

>What's so hard. Put the AP in a table, put a laptop with netstumbler
>on a table far enough away to get a middle reading and then go back
>and put the plastic box over the AP. Don't move anything. walk back to
>the laptop. look at the graph.


Have you actually tried it? I have. Let's try something simple.
Setup your laptop on the table with Netstumbler and have it probe your
own access point. Never mind the pretty graphs, just look at the
signal strength and SNR numbers. I'll assume you have the typical
rubber ducky antennas on your access point.

Now, take a 6" or so piece of PVC or ABS pipe and slide it over one or
both antennas on the access point. Record the measurements before and
after inserting the pipes. Go away and get some coffee or tea. Record
the before and after measurements again. Go away and watch a TV show.
Record the measurements before and after. Open or close a door or
window. Do it again. If you're really lucky, you'll have a +/- 3dB
spread in values of signal strength, and about twice that for SNR.

>I agree that, in general antenna measurements are a PITA.


Yep, especially indoors where uncontrolled measurements are the norm.

Incidentally, if you have access to a spectrum analyzer that does NOT
have a digital readout, put a spread spectrum signal on the screen
from a controlled source (signal generator or directly connected
access point), and ask your available friends and accomplices to read
the indicated level off the screen. My guess is about +/- 2dB
variation depending on the focus. Incidentally, tall people tend to
produce low readings, while short people produce high readings, both
due to parallax.

So, have you figured out the spectrum analyzer quiz question?

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 06:28 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> hath wroth:

>So, have you figured out the spectrum analyzer quiz question?


Never mind. Wrong thread. Sorry.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 12:43 PM
Eric
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?


<gglave@softtracks.com> wrote in message
news:1169252276.845820.177130@38g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Hi there,
>
> I'm looking for a source for a waterproof enclosure so I can place a
> Linksys router outside, i.e. something like this:
> http://tinyurl.com/y7g7v6
>
> I tried Hyperlink Technologies ( http://www.hyperlinktech.com/ ) - The
> pic above is from their site. They seem to have a good range of
> products, but they're a wholesaler, so they sent me to their dealer,
> Sharper Concepts, ( www.sharperconcepts.net ). Sharper Concepts won't
> answer my pre-sale questions, so I need to find something else.
>
> In a nutshell, I'm looking for a waterproof enclosure in order to
> enclose a Linksys WRT54G wireless access point along with a Linksys
> power-over-ethernet adapter ( http://tinyurl.com/y68tf9 )
>
> The enclosure will be in the Pacific Northwest or North America
> (Vancouver Island) so lots of rain. Temperature range could go down as
> low as -10C in Winter and up to +25C in the summer.
>
> Any suggestions? I know I could build something, but I'd prefer to buy
> something as I'm short on time.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Cheers,
> Geoff Glave
> Vancouver, Canada


Hi,

I have an old 802.11b WAP outside in a little birdhouse near my house. I
put the WAP inside tupperware. The antenna sticks out of a hole in the lid
and also out the roof the birdhouse. I simply just epoxied the hell out of
the seam of the tupperware lid/base, hole in side of the base for power and
CAT5, and the along the antenna hole in the lid. Power (DC, spliced the
power adapter cord to run it longer) and CAT5 simply runs down a buried
trench and up through the hollowed pole. The power adapter is in a closed
in area (porch).

Later, after reading one of Jeff's posts, punched a couple small holes in
the base to allow it to breath against condensation.

Is this the best way to do it? Probably not! I just figured I'd run the
old thing until it died, but its coming up on year two of cooking...




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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 12:49 PM
Rick Blaine
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

gglave@softtracks.com wrote:

>Temperature range could go down as
>low as -10C in Winter and up to +25C in the summer.


You do understand that your Linksys is not operationaly rated for that low a
temp, right? Its not just moisture that you need to be concerned about.

That was the problem I ran into for a setup in North Dakota. We ended up
building a box and installed a thermostatic heater. The supplier you cited also
sells boxes with heaters.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 02:46 PM
Al Dykes
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

In article <pgg3r2lsoqpqruu0p68b10o1m3t0farhc6@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) hath wroth:
>
>>What's so hard. Put the AP in a table, put a laptop with netstumbler
>>on a table far enough away to get a middle reading and then go back
>>and put the plastic box over the AP. Don't move anything. walk back to
>>the laptop. look at the graph.

>
>Have you actually tried it? I have. Let's try something simple.
>Setup your laptop on the table with Netstumbler and have it probe your
>own access point. Never mind the pretty graphs, just look at the
>signal strength and SNR numbers. I'll assume you have the typical
>rubber ducky antennas on your access point.
>
>Now, take a 6" or so piece of PVC or ABS pipe and slide it over one or
>both antennas on the access point. Record the measurements before and
>after inserting the pipes. Go away and get some coffee or tea. Record
>the before and after measurements again. Go away and watch a TV show.
>Record the measurements before and after. Open or close a door or
>window. Do it again. If you're really lucky, you'll have a +/- 3dB
>spread in values of signal strength, and about twice that for SNR.
>
>>I agree that, in general antenna measurements are a PITA.

>
>Yep, especially indoors where uncontrolled measurements are the norm.
>
>Incidentally, if you have access to a spectrum analyzer that does NOT
>have a digital readout, put a spread spectrum signal on the screen
>from a controlled source (signal generator or directly connected
>access point), and ask your available friends and accomplices to read
>the indicated level off the screen. My guess is about +/- 2dB
>variation depending on the focus. Incidentally, tall people tend to
>produce low readings, while short people produce high readings, both
>due to parallax.
>
>So, have you figured out the spectrum analyzer quiz question?



I'm not sure what the quiz is, but it's an interesting effect.

I agree that the table-top test is crude but for controlled
environment (which my big room is if I don't change anything) I'm not
sure why the reading would wonder around by 6dB, all on it's own.




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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 05:34 PM
David
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

decaturtxcowboy wrote:
> NetSteady wrote:
>> Geoff,
>>
>> Never, ever, put a linksys router outside. Tried it once and when it
>> got cold it stopped working.

>
> Don't know how cold you're talking about, but have a Linksys WRT54G
> tucked up under an eaves and inside a simple Walmart cover plastic bin
> to keep the dust out and its been working fine for two weekes with
> daytime temps below freezing.
>
>

I too have one outside some 30 feet in the air. It has been working just
fine for the past 1 1/2 years now and the temperature this winter has so
far fallen well below freezing and has stayed that way a few days. It
has yet failed to work.

--
MicroSoft's NEW Motto: "Good enough." When you're on top, that's the
only standard that matters.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 05:34 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) hath wroth:

>In article <pgg3r2lsoqpqruu0p68b10o1m3t0farhc6@4ax.com>,
>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>>So, have you figured out the spectrum analyzer quiz question?


>I'm not sure what the quiz is, but it's an interesting effect.


Naw, I goofed. I was running two threads involving spectrum analyzer
issues and managed to get them muddled. If you're curious, see:
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/msg/fef4de0f08c81ddf>
for the actual question under "Quiz Time".

>I agree that the table-top test is crude but for controlled
>environment (which my big room is if I don't change anything) I'm not
>sure why the reading would wonder around by 6dB, all on it's own.


It will wander around about 6dB without much effort and 10dB if you
start to move things around. Ever notice those nifty looking
Netstumbler signal strength and SNR graphs? Ever notice that they're
NOT flat top lines, but are rather ragged on the top? Those are the
variations I'm mumbling about. For example, look at Netstumbler
screen at:
<http://seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/WAP54G>
Notice the variations over 8 minutes (total) run. If I ignore the
total dropouts, my guess from the two parts of the graph are 12dB
variation on the left and about 10dB on the right.

Try it. Place a laptop somewhere that it's not going to move, and
probe an access point (preferably your own) that also isn't going to
move. Start it running and then go away for a while (to avoid having
your body affect the readings). As long as you don't cheat and use an
ultra strong saturating signal, you'll see variations similar to the
above URL. The numbers are real and you'll also see them with a
spectrum analyzer, on an antenna range, and in any highly reflective
environment. You might not see it in an RF anechoic chamber, but I
currently don't have access to one of those to try it.

Hmmmm.... I just fired up Netstumbler and checked the neighbors access
point (mine is too close and too strong). I'm seeing over 10dB
variations over about 3 minutes if I ignore the dropouts.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2007, 05:53 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

Rick Blaine <dont@bother.com> hath wroth:

>gglave@softtracks.com wrote:
>
>>Temperature range could go down as
>>low as -10C in Winter and up to +25C in the summer.

>
>You do understand that your Linksys is not operationaly rated for that low a
>temp, right? Its not just moisture that you need to be concerned about.


>That was the problem I ran into for a setup in North Dakota. We ended up
>building a box and installed a thermostatic heater. The supplier you cited also
>sells boxes with heaters.


Speaking of heaters, I used to be in the land mobile VHF/UHF repeater
service business.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Old%20Repeaters/index.html>
The repeaters inside the buildings were no problem because the other
equipment in the building kept things warm. However, the outdoor pole
mounted boxes were a problem. In particular, the large duplexer
cavities required some form of heating or water would condense inside
and detune the cavities.

So, I went to the local pet supply dealer and bought some doggy
blanket heaters. These are miniature electric blankets but sized for
a dawg. Wrap the cavity with the blanket and it stays nice and warm.
I also tried a 40 watt light bulb and a mercury thermostat plus relay.
That also worked but tended to heat the metal box more than cavities
and was therefore rather inefficient. The doggy blanket heaters put
the heat where it was needed.
<http://www.khmfg.com/products/dogs/lectroKennel.htm>
A bird bath heater might be cheaper, but I needed something that would
evenly heat a surface and the dawg blanket heater was ideal.

I doubt anyone needs as much power as a doggy blanket heater offers
for keeping a comparatively small WRT54G router warm. Probably a few
power resistors and a bimetallic thermostat will be sufficient to
prevent condensation. Whatever you do, do NOT mount the board
horizontally where the water can collect and puddle on the board.
Mount it vertically where it can drip off. Also, give the water a
place to go (details on request).



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007, 05:25 PM
decaturtxcowboy
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Default Re: Weatherproof Enclosure?

gglave@softtracks.com wrote:
> I'm looking for a source for a waterproof enclosure so I can place a
> Linksys router outside, i.e. something like this:
> http://tinyurl.com/y7g7v6


To recap from several of the other posts in here...

I never have had to deal with anything under zero degrees, nevertheless....

AP's get pretty warm at the board level, effectively keeping any water
condensing on them.

Waterproof is more problematic than weatherproof -
- Waterproof will keep out and condensing water vapor, but that should not
be a problem in a warm enclosure from the heat of the equipment alone.
- A non-vented waterproof enclosure traps too much heat.
- Weatherproofing is as simple as keeping blowing rain out of the enclosure.
- Small rain shield protected vent hole near the top will allow the less
dense humid air to vent out.
- A simple sunshade will work wonders keeping the direct sun off the enclosure.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2011, 03:24 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1
Default

ddb unlimited has weatherproof outdoor enclosures with heating and or cooling. It won't let me post the link here. But it's just the name put together and then the typical web address
format.
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