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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2006, 06:00 AM
ANTant@zimage.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

Hello!

I have an old Linksys WAP11 (Instant Wireless Network Access Point v2.6) with its firwmare
v1.07, April 16, 2003 (latest one I saw) that I have been using for years (9/2003). I don't use
it all the time. I do turn it off (when not used like when going out or whatever) and on a lot
though.

I just noticed tonight on http://192.168.0.<whatever number I set or default>/log.htm showed:

1: Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:0-14049 System Start
2: Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:0-13989 Wireless PC Connected Mac: XX-XX-XX-XX-XX-XX
Current Date/Time :

I don't recall seeing the dates and times like them. I hit Clear Logs, it rebooted(?)/locked
up?, and my WAP forgot its static IP address I set (couldn't connect or ping it). I thought I
broke it, so I resetted it with a paperclip in its reset hole. Then, I was able to get back into
its assigned IP address (DHCP based). I noticed it forgot a lot of settings like SSID, IP
addresses, channel #, etc. Other half it still remembers like password, WEP password, etc.

Is this normal to be like this or is it having problem? It is not hot in my room (82 F degrees
right now), but it had been the last few weeks in L.A. area, CA :(

Thank you in advance. :)
--
"... human societies send their young men to war, weaver-ant societies send their old ladies." --Wilson and Holldobler
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 12:36 AM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:00:45 -0500, ANTant@zimage.com wrote:

>I have an old Linksys WAP11 (Instant Wireless Network Access Point v2.6) with its firwmare
>v1.07, April 16, 2003 (latest one I saw) that I have been using for years (9/2003). I don't use
>it all the time. I do turn it off (when not used like when going out or whatever) and on a lot
>though.
>
>I just noticed tonight on http://192.168.0.<whatever number I set or default>/log.htm showed:
>
>1: Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:0-14049 System Start
>2: Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:0-13989 Wireless PC Connected Mac: XX-XX-XX-XX-XX-XX
>Current Date/Time :
>
>I don't recall seeing the dates and times like them.


I do. What happened is that Linksys hard coded some NTP (network time
protocol) servers into the firmware. I think some of them went away
about a year ago. Since then, the clock just uses the default
date/time as it always fails to update.

Just for fun, I downloaded that 1.07 firmware image and ran it through
strings to see if I could find the IP address. I couldn't find it.

>I hit Clear Logs, it rebooted(?)/locked
>up?, and my WAP forgot its static IP address I set (couldn't connect or ping it).


Ummm, that's not suppose to happen.

>I thought I
>broke it, so I resetted it with a paperclip in its reset hole. Then, I was able to get back into
>its assigned IP address (DHCP based). I noticed it forgot a lot of settings like SSID, IP
>addresses, channel #, etc. Other half it still remembers like password, WEP password, etc.


Well, duh, yes. If you do a hard reset, it clears everything,
including the settings, back to the defaults. Did you try powering
the WAP11 v2.6 on and off before resorting to a hard reset?

>Is this normal to be like this or is it having problem? It is not hot in my room (82 F degrees
>right now), but it had been the last few weeks in L.A. area, CA :(


It maxed out on Saturday at 103 to 115F (unofficial highs) in the
hills above the Peoples Republic of Santa Cruz.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 04:55 AM
ANTant@zimage.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:00:45 -0500, ANTant@zimage.com wrote:


> >I have an old Linksys WAP11 (Instant Wireless Network Access Point v2.6) with its firwmare
> >v1.07, April 16, 2003 (latest one I saw) that I have been using for years (9/2003). I don't use
> >it all the time. I do turn it off (when not used like when going out or whatever) and on a lot
> >though.
> >
> >I just noticed tonight on http://192.168.0.<whatever number I set or default>/log.htm showed:
> >
> >1: Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:0-14049 System Start
> >2: Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:0-13989 Wireless PC Connected Mac: XX-XX-XX-XX-XX-XX
> >Current Date/Time :
> >
> >I don't recall seeing the dates and times like them.


> I do. What happened is that Linksys hard coded some NTP (network time
> protocol) servers into the firmware. I think some of them went away
> about a year ago. Since then, the clock just uses the default
> date/time as it always fails to update.


Interesting. I didn't know it was using NTP. Which one was it? Can I have to use my local
computers?


> Just for fun, I downloaded that 1.07 firmware image and ran it through
> strings to see if I could find the IP address. I couldn't find it.


v1.07? I only saw v1.03. Where did you see that one? What's fixed?


> >I hit Clear Logs, it rebooted(?)/locked
> >up?, and my WAP forgot its static IP address I set (couldn't connect or ping it).


> Ummm, that's not suppose to happen.


Yeah. It was weird.


> >I thought I
> >broke it, so I resetted it with a paperclip in its reset hole. Then, I was able to get back into
> >its assigned IP address (DHCP based). I noticed it forgot a lot of settings like SSID, IP
> >addresses, channel #, etc. Other half it still remembers like password, WEP password, etc.


> Well, duh, yes. If you do a hard reset, it clears everything,
> including the settings, back to the defaults. Did you try powering
> the WAP11 v2.6 on and off before resorting to a hard reset?


Right, but it should had erased EVERYTHING back to defaults, right? Not just half of them. I did
power off and on before resetting.


> >Is this normal to be like this or is it having problem? It is not hot in my room (82 F degrees
> >right now), but it had been the last few weeks in L.A. area, CA :(


> It maxed out on Saturday at 103 to 115F (unofficial highs) in the
> hills above the Peoples Republic of Santa Cruz.


Heh. :)
--
"... human societies send their young men to war, weaver-ant societies send their old ladies." --Wilson and Holldobler
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 05:43 AM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:55:58 -0500, ANTant@zimage.com wrote:

>> >I have an old Linksys WAP11 (Instant Wireless Network Access Point v2.6) with its firwmare
>> >v1.07, April 16, 2003 (latest one I saw) that I have been using for years (9/2003).

(...)
>> Just for fun, I downloaded that 1.07 firmware image and ran it through
>> strings to see if I could find the IP address. I couldn't find it.


>v1.07? I only saw v1.03. Where did you see that one? What's fixed?


WAP11 v2.6 latest version is 1.07. See:
| http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper

>Interesting. I didn't know it was using NTP. Which one was it?


Dunno. I couldn't find the IP's or names in the 1.07 image file.

>Can I have to use my local computers?


Huh? I don't understand. The NTP in the WAP11 is to set its own date
and time for logging and not to set those on your computer.

However, now that you asked, with Windoze XP, go to:
Control Panel -> Date and Time -> Internet Time
and change the time server from:
time.windows.com
to:
us.pool.ntp.org
Figure on a 10 second delay to synchronize.

>Right, but it should had erased EVERYTHING back to defaults, right? Not just half of them. I did
>power off and on before resetting.


Yep. Everything. I recently had to reset two WAP54G v3.1 access
points. Punch the reset button and EVERYTHING was back to defaults.
Something might be blown in your unit.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 06:16 AM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:43:58 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<vmggc2p79l2rprco6tj0h66itthfpv8nmp@4ax.com>:

>However, now that you asked, with Windoze XP, go to:
> Control Panel -> Date and Time -> Internet Time
>and change the time server from:
> time.windows.com
>to:
> us.pool.ntp.org
>Figure on a 10 second delay to synchronize.


Ugh. That's a crude DNS load balance of servers all over the place.
Better to use good local servers. I personally use and recommend
SymmTime 2006 <http://www.ntp-systems.com/symmtime.asp>, but if you must
use Windoze, good open access servers in the SF Bay Area include:
* clock.fmt.he.net
* clock.sjc.he.net
* nist1.datum.com
* ntp-cup.external.hp.com
* nist1.aol-ca.truetime.com

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 06:25 AM
ANTant@zimage.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:55:58 -0500, ANTant@zimage.com wrote:


> >> >I have an old Linksys WAP11 (Instant Wireless Network Access Point v2.6) with its firwmare
> >> >v1.07, April 16, 2003 (latest one I saw) that I have been using for years (9/2003).

> (...)
> >> Just for fun, I downloaded that 1.07 firmware image and ran it through
> >> strings to see if I could find the IP address. I couldn't find it.


> >v1.07? I only saw v1.03. Where did you see that one? What's fixed?


> WAP11 v2.6 latest version is 1.07. See:
> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper


Can you post tinyurl of this? SOmehow I am getting an error:
500 Servlet Exception

java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Satellite Server request for page unable
to proceed: (pagename is missing). Parameters: {childpagename=US/Layout,
c=L_Download_C2, cid=11154171099$}
at com.openmarket.Satellite.s.b(DashoA14174)
at com.openmarket.Satellite.s.f(DashoA14174)
at com.openmarket.Satellite.s.a(DashoA14174)
at com.openmarket.Satellite.s.toString(DashoA14174)
at java.lang.String.valueOf(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.StringBuffer.append(Unknown Source)
at com.openmarket.Satellite.c.execute(DashoA14174)
at com.openmarket.Satellite.servlet.b.doGet(DashoA141 74)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet .java:115)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet .java:92)
at com.caucho.server.dispatch.ServletFilterChain.doFi lter(ServletFilterChain.java:106)
at com.caucho.server.webapp.WebAppFilterChain.doFilte r(WebAppFilterChain.java:178)
at com.caucho.server.dispatch.ServletInvocation.servi ce(ServletInvocation.java:229)
at com.caucho.server.hmux.HmuxRequest.handleRequest(H muxRequest.java:419)
at com.caucho.server.port.TcpConnection.run(TcpConnec tion.java:389)
at com.caucho.util.ThreadPool.runTasks(ThreadPool.jav a:492)
at com.caucho.util.ThreadPool.run(ThreadPool.java:425 )
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Resin-3.0.18 (built Fri, 24 Feb 2006 02:47:03 PST)



> >Interesting. I didn't know it was using NTP. Which one was it?


> Dunno. I couldn't find the IP's or names in the 1.07 image file.


I meant the older one. :)


> >Can I have to use my local computers?


> Huh? I don't understand. The NTP in the WAP11 is to set its own date
> and time for logging and not to set those on your computer.


Sorry, that is what I meant. I missed a word. "Can I have it..." Long day at work for me, today.


> However, now that you asked, with Windoze XP, go to:
> Control Panel -> Date and Time -> Internet Time
> and change the time server from:
> time.windows.com
> to:
> us.pool.ntp.org
> Figure on a 10 second delay to synchronize.


I meant for the WAP. :)


> >Right, but it should had erased EVERYTHING back to defaults, right? Not just half of them. I did
> >power off and on before resetting.


> Yep. Everything. I recently had to reset two WAP54G v3.1 access
> points. Punch the reset button and EVERYTHING was back to defaults.
> Something might be blown in your unit.


Probably heat. :)
--
"... human societies send their young men to war, weaver-ant societies send their old ladies." --Wilson and Holldobler
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 07:03 AM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:25:14 -0500, ANTant@zimage.com wrote in
<1NSdnY8BLayn01XZnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@mminternet.net >:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:55:58 -0500, ANTant@zimage.com wrote:

>
>> >> >I have an old Linksys WAP11 (Instant Wireless Network Access Point v2.6) with its firwmare
>> >> >v1.07, April 16, 2003 (latest one I saw) that I have been using for years (9/2003).

>> (...)
>> >> Just for fun, I downloaded that 1.07 firmware image and ran it through
>> >> strings to see if I could find the IP address. I couldn't find it.

>
>> >v1.07? I only saw v1.03. Where did you see that one? What's fixed?

>
>> WAP11 v2.6 latest version is 1.07. See:
>> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper

>
>Can you post tinyurl of this?


http://tinyurl.com/l6m4x

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 07:23 AM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

ANTant@zimage.com hath wroth:

>> WAP11 v2.6 latest version is 1.07. See:
>> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper

>
>Can you post tinyurl of this?


John Navas posted one.

>SOmehow I am getting an error:


I posted the URL from my palatial office. I'm at home now and the
ultra long URL works just fine on my home PC. Looks like Java is
complaining. Check your Java version. Just go to:
http://www.java.com/en/download/installed.jsp
and hit "verify installation".


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 07:40 AM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:

>On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:43:58 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
><jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
><vmggc2p79l2rprco6tj0h66itthfpv8nmp@4ax.com>:
>
>>However, now that you asked, with Windoze XP, go to:
>> Control Panel -> Date and Time -> Internet Time
>>and change the time server from:
>> time.windows.com
>>to:
>> us.pool.ntp.org
>>Figure on a 10 second delay to synchronize.


>Ugh. That's a crude DNS load balance of servers all over the place.


Crude but effective. The idea is to not burden the stratum 1 servers
with NTP updates that don't require the ultimate in accuracy. I've
switched to using the pool about a year ago and have had no problems.

>Better to use good local servers.


Of course it's better. Whether it's necessary is dependent on whether
you want your clock accurate to the nearest millisecond. If you can
tolerate some more error, the pool is just fine.

>I personally use and recommend
>SymmTime 2006 <http://www.ntp-systems.com/symmtime.asp>


Nice. I gotta try it.

>, but if you must
>use Windoze, good open access servers in the SF Bay Area include:
>* clock.fmt.he.net
>* clock.sjc.he.net
>* nist1.datum.com
>* ntp-cup.external.hp.com
>* nist1.aol-ca.truetime.com


It's a good idea to check if one needs to ask permission before using
the servers. See:
http://ntp.isc.org/bin/view/Servers/...OneTimeServers
http://ntp.isc.org/bin/view/Servers/...TwoTimeServers
All the ones you've listed do NOT require permission, so they're safe.


Incidentally, this is from the WRT54G source code:

/* for NTP */
int do_ntp(void)
{
char ntp_servers[4][256] = {
"time.nist.gov",
"time.stdtime.gov.tw",
"time.chttl.com.tw",
"210.59.157.10",
};

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 01:49 PM
ANTant@zimage.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:25:14 -0500, ANTant@zimage.com wrote in
> <1NSdnY8BLayn01XZnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@mminternet.net >:


> >Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:55:58 -0500, ANTant@zimage.com wrote:

> >
> >> >> >I have an old Linksys WAP11 (Instant Wireless Network Access Point v2.6) with its firwmare
> >> >> >v1.07, April 16, 2003 (latest one I saw) that I have been using for years (9/2003).
> >> (...)
> >> >> Just for fun, I downloaded that 1.07 firmware image and ran it through
> >> >> strings to see if I could find the IP address. I couldn't find it.

> >
> >> >v1.07? I only saw v1.03. Where did you see that one? What's fixed?

> >
> >> WAP11 v2.6 latest version is 1.07. See:
> >> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper

> >
> >Can you post tinyurl of this?


> http://tinyurl.com/l6m4x


Thanks. Hmm, I guess I already havethis one. I thought I had v1.03. Heh.
--
"... human societies send their young men to war, weaver-ant societies send their old ladies." --Wilson and Holldobler
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 01:50 PM
ANTant@zimage.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
> ANTant@zimage.com hath wroth:


> >> WAP11 v2.6 latest version is 1.07. See:
> >> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper

> >
> >Can you post tinyurl of this?


> John Navas posted one.


> >SOmehow I am getting an error:


> I posted the URL from my palatial office. I'm at home now and the
> ultra long URL works just fine on my home PC. Looks like Java is
> complaining. Check your Java version. Just go to:
> http://www.java.com/en/download/installed.jsp
> and hit "verify installation".


It doesn't require Java. It was my newsreader (Tin) that couldn't word wrap the URL correctly.

--
"... human societies send their young men to war, weaver-ant societies send their old ladies." --Wilson and Holldobler
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Please remove ANT if replying by e-mail.
( )

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 04:12 PM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:40:02 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<h6ngc290j8tg4ns7k9iffd1gdgfo06ut0l@4ax.com>:

>John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>
>>On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:43:58 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
>><jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
>><vmggc2p79l2rprco6tj0h66itthfpv8nmp@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>However, now that you asked, with Windoze XP, go to:
>>> Control Panel -> Date and Time -> Internet Time
>>>and change the time server from:
>>> time.windows.com
>>>to:
>>> us.pool.ntp.org
>>>Figure on a 10 second delay to synchronize.

>
>>Ugh. That's a crude DNS load balance of servers all over the place.

>
>Crude but effective.


I think it's a poor approach since it won't reliably result in a good
server, and since subsequent updates may come from quite different
servers, increasing time jitter and making clock drift correction less
workable. Better to carefully pick your own server(s).

>The idea is to not burden the stratum 1 servers
>with NTP updates that don't require the ultimate in accuracy.


Different servers have different policies. Some Stratum 1 servers are
restricted or closed; some are open to the public. Likewise Stratum 2.

>I've
>switched to using the pool about a year ago and have had no problems.


Your need for time accuracy may be less stringent than mine. I've seen
considerable time jitter when using the pool, resulting in excessive
clock error (for my purposes at least). SymmTime (using Symmetricom
time servers) gives me much better results.

>>Better to use good local servers.

>
>Of course it's better. Whether it's necessary is dependent on whether
>you want your clock accurate to the nearest millisecond. If you can
>tolerate some more error, the pool is just fine.


The problem of PC clock drift is typically far greater than that -- I'd
be very surprised if your standard PC clock is even accurate to the
second. The default update period for Windows XP is a week, by which
time a PC clock can easily have drifted several minutes, or more if the
update couldn't be done on schedule. More frequent updates can help,
but don't really solve the fundamental problem of clock drift. What's
needed is software that accurately measures and continuously corrects
for clock drift. Even with that, no better than 50 ms accuracy is about
the best that can be expected of many (most?) PCs.

>>I personally use and recommend
>>SymmTime 2006 <http://www.ntp-systems.com/symmtime.asp>

>
>Nice. I gotta try it.


I think you'll find that it results in much more accurate system time
with less clock drift. Be sure to disable the Windows XP time update
when using SymmTime.

>All the ones you've listed do NOT require permission, so they're safe.


Of course -- I chose them carefully. :)

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 06:18 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:

>I think it's a poor approach since it won't reliably result in a good
>server, and since subsequent updates may come from quite different
>servers, increasing time jitter and making clock drift correction less
>workable. Better to carefully pick your own server(s).


Sure. A nearby time server and corrected clock makes more sense for
time critical applications. NTP clients all have smooth transition
features so there are no abrupt changes in time sync. I guess that's
necessary for the nifty Symmetricom client, which updates the time
once per hour. Were this client to use the NTP pool, then there would
certainly be some jitter. However, were the client to only update
once per day and when the machine starts, there would be no jitter and
sufficient accuracy for most home users.

I usually use the NIST time sync software:
http://tf.nist.gov/service/its.htm
It's old, not very elegant, but works well enough.

>Your need for time accuracy may be less stringent than mine.


True. Totally non-critical. I do have some data loggers where the
client insisted on accurate timing. Full time internet access was not
available so I used a GPS clock sync program from the NEMA-183 output
to the serial port.

>The problem of PC clock drift is typically far greater than that -- I'd
>be very surprised if your standard PC clock is even accurate to the
>second. The default update period for Windows XP is a week, by which
>time a PC clock can easily have drifted several minutes, or more if the
>update couldn't be done on schedule. More frequent updates can help,
>but don't really solve the fundamental problem of clock drift. What's
>needed is software that accurately measures and continuously corrects
>for clock drift. Even with that, no better than 50 ms accuracy is about
>the best that can be expected of many (most?) PCs.


How to change the XP internet time sync update interval.
Start -> Run -> regedit <enter>
Go unto:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\W 32Time\TimeProviders\NtpClient
Select
SpecialPollInterval
Change the decimal value in seconds from 604800 to what seems like a
good idea. I suggest:
172800 (2 days)
or:
86400 (1 day)
I wouldn't go much less than a day to avoid pounding on the designated
NTP server.

I do agree that clock drift is a problem, especially if you're data
logging. However, most users don't do that and even a few minutes of
error is tolerable.

Drivel: Long ago, I decided to write my own GPS time sync program. It
was running on an SCO Unix 3.2v4.2 box, which was also my NNTP news
server and SNMP data collector. After my trademark absolute minimal
debugging and zero testing process, it went live. Everything worked
just fine until the HVAC repairman disconnected my rooftop GPS antenna
while working on the A/C. The NEMA time string went to 00:00:00 and
my server went insane. It took me weeks to clean up the mess.
Lesson #1: Accurate time is important.
Lesson #2: I should give up programming.

>>>I personally use and recommend
>>>SymmTime 2006 <http://www.ntp-systems.com/symmtime.asp>

>I think you'll find that it results in much more accurate system time
>with less clock drift. Be sure to disable the Windows XP time update
>when using SymmTime.


It correctly stopped "Windows Time" services and set it to "manual".
Nicely done.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2006, 09:37 PM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Weird dates and time stamps on old Linksys WAP11...

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:18:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<jathc2h2mnqu88m2qb3uutf40umrparu0v@4ax.com>:

>John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> hath wroth:
>
>>I think it's a poor approach since it won't reliably result in a good
>>server, and since subsequent updates may come from quite different
>>servers, increasing time jitter and making clock drift correction less
>>workable. Better to carefully pick your own server(s).

>
>Sure. A nearby time server and corrected clock makes more sense for
>time critical applications. NTP clients all have smooth transition
>features so there are no abrupt changes in time sync.


Not all by any means.

> guess that's
>necessary for the nifty Symmetricom client, which updates the time
>once per hour. Were this client to use the NTP pool, then there would
>certainly be some jitter. However, were the client to only update
>once per day and when the machine starts, there would be no jitter and
>sufficient accuracy for most home users.


While that would reduce frequency of correction (period), it would
almost certainly result in more, not less, jitter (amplitude).

While high time accuracy isn't needed much of the time for home users,
it can be important, sometimes very important, so, given that high
accuracy is so easy to achieve, I don't think it makes sense to
compromise. Kind of like not wearing a seat belt because the chance of
an accident is so low. ;)

I'm reminded of a client situation in which having the exact time
something had occurred was very helpful in working out an online issue
that otherwise could have been messy and/or expensive.

>I usually use the NIST time sync software:
> http://tf.nist.gov/service/its.htm
>It's old, not very elegant, but works well enough.


I think it's actually pretty crappy -- in addition to some annoying
bugs/glitches, and abrupt clock changes, haven't you noticed how much
jitter it has even when querying Stratum 1 servers over lightly-loaded
broadband?

>I wouldn't go much less than a day to avoid pounding on the designated
>NTP server.


I think a good time client ought to be capable of picking an appropriate
interval itself based on observed clock drift.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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