Why is wireless networking so difficult in Linux?

Hi,

I was just wondering why wireless networking is so hard to set up in
linux.
Wired networking seems to be really easy - most distros just install
and networking works. Why doesn't this happen with wireless in linux?

Just curious!
squelch41

squelch41@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was just wondering why wireless networking is so hard to set up in
> linux.
> Wired networking seems to be really easy - most distros just install
> and networking works. Why doesn't this happen with wireless in linux?
>
> Just curious!
> squelch41
>

You can thank that to the companies that make the equipment as they do
NOT provide the necessary drivers for their equipment and Linux. If you
are having problems, what equipment do you have (make and model) and
what is it that you are exactly trying to do?

--
MicroSoft's NEW Motto: "Good enough." When you're on top, that's the
only standard that matters.

<squelch41@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169235433.759194.275140@38g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I was just wondering why wireless networking is so hard to set up in
> linux.
> Wired networking seems to be really easy - most distros just install
> and networking works. Why doesn't this happen with wireless in linux?
>
> Just curious!
> squelch41
>
Wireless networking is not any more difficult in Linux than in other OS's.
(OK, I don't do OSX, but I do Win and Linux.) In both OS's you need to
activate the wireless card, and set it up. (Both with security and which
network that it should connect to.) So, I have no idea why you say it is
more difficult. Perhaps you are not using a new distro. I have set up
wireless with the following disto's with Linksys, Dlink, Oinoco, and Belkin
cards with no problem:

Xandros 4 Pro
Ubuntu 6.06 and 6.10
Suse 10
Mandrake
Knoppix

So, maybe you need to try one of the above.

squelch41@hotmail.com hath wroth:

>I was just wondering why wireless networking is so hard to set up in
>linux.

Because if it were easy, it would be no fun.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Johann Beretta <invalid@invalid.org> hath wroth:

>It's not even that, it's that they won't release ANY of the specs. Linux hackers
>would write the drivers themselves if they could, but the manufacturers won't
>release any specs, and so the coders are relegated to trying to reverse engineer
>the hardware which is MUCH harder than just writing a driver.

Actually, reverse engineering is often *MORE* accurate than using the
published specs. I've been ensnarled in at least 2 debates over
whether to build wireless devices in accordance to the specs, or to
built them to match the goofy hardware de jure which doesn't quite
follow the specs. Lots of fun. It's interesting to note that the
best drivers seem to be the ones that either include company support
(Prism, Atheros), or the limited number of devices that have been
revese engineered (Broadcom).

For what little I know about (which is not every chipset on the
planet). I have clues on the others (Atmel, Intel, Prism, Marvell,
RealTek, Zydas) but prefer to let the Linux experts doing the
complaining. Nice article on the current open source wireless mess:
<http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/293/>
Well, maybe not so current. The ar5k Atheros driver is obselete under
Linux.

Broadcom: Doesn't supply any info except under NDA. Does not support
open source. Ships drivers in the form of binary APL's. However, it
has been reverse engineered quite successfully:
http://bcm-specs.sipsolutions.net
http://bcm-v4.sipsolutions.net
http://bcm43xx.berlios.de

Atheros: Generally supports open source drivers for Linux and
FreeBSD.
http://www.atheros.com/news/linux.html



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

OK - thanks. So it is basically the fact that the drivers are extremely
difficult to find/make.
That would certainly fit with my experience where, under windows,
things are reasonably easy as you just install the manufacturer's
driver, but for linux, you have to hunt around for chipset type, then
try the driver which often doesnt work, etc.

Thanks again,
squelch41


Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Johann Beretta <invalid@invalid.org> hath wroth:
>
> >It's not even that, it's that they won't release ANY of the specs. Linux hackers
> >would write the drivers themselves if they could, but the manufacturers won't
> >release any specs, and so the coders are relegated to trying to reverse engineer
> >the hardware which is MUCH harder than just writing a driver.
>
> Actually, reverse engineering is often *MORE* accurate than using the
> published specs. I've been ensnarled in at least 2 debates over
> whether to build wireless devices in accordance to the specs, or to
> built them to match the goofy hardware de jure which doesn't quite
> follow the specs. Lots of fun. It's interesting to note that the
> best drivers seem to be the ones that either include company support
> (Prism, Atheros), or the limited number of devices that have been
> revese engineered (Broadcom).
>
> For what little I know about (which is not every chipset on the
> planet). I have clues on the others (Atmel, Intel, Prism, Marvell,
> RealTek, Zydas) but prefer to let the Linux experts doing the
> complaining. Nice article on the current open source wireless mess:
> <http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/293/>
> Well, maybe not so current. The ar5k Atheros driver is obselete under
> Linux.
>
> Broadcom: Doesn't supply any info except under NDA. Does not support
> open source. Ships drivers in the form of binary APL's. However, it
> has been reverse engineered quite successfully:
> http://bcm-specs.sipsolutions.net
> http://bcm-v4.sipsolutions.net
> http://bcm43xx.berlios.de
>
> Atheros: Generally supports open source drivers for Linux and
> FreeBSD.
> http://www.atheros.com/news/linux.html
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

squelch41@hotmail.com wrote:
> OK - thanks. So it is basically the fact that the drivers are extremely
> difficult to find/make.
> That would certainly fit with my experience where, under windows,
> things are reasonably easy as you just install the manufacturer's
> driver, but for linux, you have to hunt around for chipset type, then
> try the driver which often doesnt work, etc.
>
> Thanks again,
> squelch41
>

Well you could just try using NDISwrapper and the native windows driver.

--
MicroSoft's NEW Motto: "Good enough." When you're on top, that's the
only standard that matters.

David wrote:
> squelch41@hotmail.com wrote:
>> OK - thanks. So it is basically the fact that the drivers are extremely
>> difficult to find/make.
>> That would certainly fit with my experience where, under windows,
>> things are reasonably easy as you just install the manufacturer's
>> driver, but for linux, you have to hunt around for chipset type, then
>> try the driver which often doesnt work, etc.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> squelch41
>>
>
> Well you could just try using NDISwrapper and the native windows driver.

The downside of that approach is that no kernel developer will even look at any oops that you have
as long as that Windows binary "taints" your system.

Once you solve the driver problem, and I'm part of the group working on the bcm43xx driver, using
NetworkManager to connect is even easier then Windows. When you try to connect with a new, encrypted
AP, up pops a box asking for your encryption key, which is then stored in your KDE wallet.

Larry

Larry Finger wrote:

> ...I'm part of the group working on the bcm43xx driver...

Could you give me an update on where things are with the bug that causes
it to crash on an AMD64 machine with a gigabyte or more of RAM? Kind of
a hassle to drag out the old PC Card 802.11b adapter when I want to boot
into Linux.

Jonathan L. Parker wrote:
> Larry Finger wrote:
>
>> ...I'm part of the group working on the bcm43xx driver...
>
> Could you give me an update on where things are with the bug that causes
> it to crash on an AMD64 machine with a gigabyte or more of RAM? Kind of
> a hassle to drag out the old PC Card 802.11b adapter when I want to boot
> into Linux.

Fixed just last week. Patches for 2.6.18, 2.6.19, and 2.6.20-rcX are available at
ftp://lwfinger.dynalias.org/patches. The fix should be in 2.6.20 before release.

If you don't want to patch your kernel, just add a 'mem=1024M' line to your boot options. That will
restrict your memory to 1 GB, and the old code will work.

Larry

squelch41@hotmail.com wrote:
> OK - thanks. So it is basically the fact that the drivers are extremely
> difficult to find/make.

I did some window shopping, trying to find good support, and then intended
to buy whatever was well supported.

I wound up going to Fry's Electronics and buying a card that I remembered
seeing on one of the "good" lists.

Of course, there are versions...
The card that I chose has the same model number, but multiple versions that
are entirely different chipsets.

The DLink DWL-G630, hardware version C2, is supported for several versions
of Linux, with both RPMs and source code available.

The DLink page says there is no driver available.
Atheros.com doesn't list it for Linux, but MADwifi.org lists it as an
Artheros chipset with support.

On a dual boot PC, the Windows XP driver autoloaded via my wired
connection, and it works fine.

On Redhat Enterprise Linux AS 3, update 8, there was an RPM available
for the latest patched kernel, but I didn't have that version, so I had
to build my own, which didn't work, due to some code bug. I backed off
to an earlier source release, and successfully built and used the driver.

http://madwifi.org I built drivers from 0.9.1 source.
DLink DWL-G630 PCMCIA card (hardware version C2), $19.99 after rebates.
FCCID KA2DWLG630C1
http://atrpms.net/name/madwifi/ holds binaries for latest kernels.

Linux hv-rhel 2.4.21-47.EL #1 Wed Jul 5 20:46:55 EDT 2006 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
/var/log/messages:
kernel: cs: cb_alloc(bus 1): vendor 0x168c, device 0x001a
kernel: wifi0: Atheros 5212: mem=0x10800000, irq=9
ath_hal: 0.9.17.2 (AR5210, AR5211, AR5212, RF5111, RF5112, RF2413, RF5413)
wlan: 0.8.4.2 (0.9.1)
ath_rate_sample: 1.2 (0.9.1)
ath_pci: 0.9.4.5 (0.9.1)

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5