DaveC wrote:
> Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.
>
> Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that cost
> is not too important (within reason)?
>
> There are scads of these on the 'net. I'm looking for someone who has
> experience with one or more of them and can make a recommendation for one.
>
> Thanks,
Hi, not actually 2.4 Gig WiFi but cellular wireless modem card. I
bought one of the small verticals with a magnet mount and cabling for
about $15 ppd as I recall. My situation is that my house is built with
concrete/rebar construction, metal 'persiana' windows and screens and
its hard to get a signal out of here even on the various cellular bands.
I think the highest band there is 1.8 GHz.
I didn't go for gain since the path to the site is only about 1.3 miles
away so I opted for the little guy, about 7 inches tall, that just sits
on the roof. On the other hand, a friend in a different location got
himself into all sorts of problems with reflections and multiple tower
sites and is now looking for a directional antenna to minimize the clutter.
Another consideration is the vertical angle between you and the site.
The "high gain" verticals (I've seen ones claiming 14db) have a rather
flattened omni pattern so that if you have to look upwards to your
intended site you might find the gain to be considerably less, if any.
"DaveC" <me@bogusdomain.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C54BA58A0075A070B01AD9AF@news.sf.sbcgl obal.net...
> Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.
Whip antenna? What is this, for a vehicle? For a stationary location it
seems like it'd be an extremely bad idea to use an antenna that 'whipped'
around.
> Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that
> cost
> is not too important (within reason)?
Alligator effect. Wide mouth receiving everything. If you don't need to
pickup everything then why bother? It just makes it harder for your WiFi
router to cut through all the noise of distant stations it doesn't
communicate with. Get the right antenna suited for your installation, no
more, no less.
Which leads to the constant request, when you ask a question POST WHAT GEAR
YOU'RE USING.
In your case it would also help to define what sort of connection you're
trying to make. Point to point, metropolitan, etc.
Bill Kearney wrote:
> "DaveC" <me@bogusdomain.net> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C54BA58A0075A070B01AD9AF@news.sf.sbcgl obal.net...
>> Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.
>
> Whip antenna? What is this, for a vehicle? For a stationary location it
> seems like it'd be an extremely bad idea to use an antenna that 'whipped'
> around.
>
>> Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that
>> cost
>> is not too important (within reason)?
>
> Alligator effect. Wide mouth receiving everything. If you don't need to
> pickup everything then why bother? It just makes it harder for your WiFi
> router to cut through all the noise of distant stations it doesn't
> communicate with. Get the right antenna suited for your installation, no
> more, no less.
>
> Which leads to the constant request, when you ask a question POST WHAT GEAR
> YOU'RE USING.
>
> In your case it would also help to define what sort of connection you're
> trying to make. Point to point, metropolitan, etc.
>
> -Bill Kearney
>
>
Short Pringle's can, 1/4 wave probe, 1/2 wave from closed end, soldered
to female TNC.
"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FfCdnaXCtoZ3I7vUnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> "DaveC" <me@bogusdomain.net> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C54BA58A0075A070B01AD9AF@news.sf.sbcgl obal.net...
>> Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.
>
> Whip antenna? What is this, for a vehicle? For a stationary location it
> seems like it'd be an extremely bad idea to use an antenna that 'whipped'
> around.
>
>> Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that
>> cost
>> is not too important (within reason)?
>
> Alligator effect. Wide mouth receiving everything. If you don't need to
> pickup everything then why bother? It just makes it harder for your WiFi
> router to cut through all the noise of distant stations it doesn't
> communicate with. Get the right antenna suited for your installation, no
> more, no less.
>
> Which leads to the constant request, when you ask a question POST WHAT
> GEAR YOU'RE USING.
>
> In your case it would also help to define what sort of connection you're
> trying to make. Point to point, metropolitan, etc.
>
> -Bill Kearney
Since you have included the HAM radio newsgroups as your first choices,
with the Internet Wireless as your last choice,
then - as was mentioned above - what are you trying to accomplish
with this 2.4Ghz outdoor antenna ??
Since you used the term "whip" it tends to imply some physical motion or
vehicle,
vs a "vertical" which implies a stationary location.
And both imply a omni pattern - like a general Access Point -
Dave wrote:
> Short Pringle's can, 1/4 wave probe, 1/2 wave from closed end, soldered
> to female TNC.
===================================
Yes these cans work well ; the problem is the type and length of coax .
A suitable arangement is a WiFi router near the antenna (if necessary in
a wx proof box ) with an ethernet cat5 cable running to the equipment.
Another possibility is a USB WiFi adaptor in the focal point of a
satellite dish with a USB to ethernet converter.
On Nov 21, 2:38*am, DaveC <m...@bogusdomain.net> wrote:
> Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.
>
> Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that cost
> is not too important (within reason)?
>
> There are scads of these on the 'net. I'm looking for someone who has
> experience with one or more of them and can make a recommendation for one..
>
> Thanks,
> --
> DaveC
> m...@bogusdomain.net
> This is an invalid return address
> Please reply in the news group
I recently built a Franklin antenna for 2.4Ghz.
I highly reccommend it. Google WiFi and franklin antenna.
> Since you used the term "whip" it tends to imply some physical motion or
> vehicle,
> vs a "vertical" which implies a stationary location.
> And both imply a omni pattern - like a general Access Point -
-=-=-=-
OK, time to clarify...
Wifi (2.4 GHz). outdoor omni vertical (not whip), permanent mount on pole, to
be connected (very short pigtail) to pole-mounted wifi router in client mode.
Max output: 250 mW.
Is it true that the higher the gain the flatter the "donut" shape of the
sensitivity field?
(And yes, my terminology is rudimentary... please forgive.)
Thanks,
--
DaveC me@bogusdomain.net
This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group
DaveC wrote:
>> Since you used the term "whip" it tends to imply some physical
>> motion or vehicle,
>> vs a "vertical" which implies a stationary location.
>> And both imply a omni pattern - like a general Access Point -
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> OK, time to clarify...
>
> Wifi (2.4 GHz). outdoor omni vertical (not whip), permanent mount on
> pole, to be connected (very short pigtail) to pole-mounted wifi
> router in client mode. Max output: 250 mW.
>
> Is it true that the higher the gain the flatter the "donut" shape of
> the sensitivity field?
>
> (And yes, my terminology is rudimentary... please forgive.)
>
> Thanks,
> --
> DaveC
dropped the x-posting to the ham groups -
--
why omni on a pole in "client mode" ?
If you are attemtping to connect to a specific Access Point,
this has been discussed here zillions of times,
and there are other questions, clarifications, and solutions available -
other than an omni -
Where are you in relation to the Access Point, how far, line of sight, etc
This requires a little different "thinking" than just putting up a bigger
stick
to talk to a 2m, 220, or 450 repeater -
> Is it true that the higher the gain the flatter the "donut" shape of the
> sensitivity field?
>
> (And yes, my terminology is rudimentary... please forgive.)
I'm the one who initially committed than terminological crime so forgive
ME! Where is that big omni gain going to come from if not from the
vertical beamwidth? Start with the isotropic model pictured as a
spherical balloon. Squeeze it however you want to. Nothing about an
antenna can add volume to the model, its just a matter of how you
squeeze it.
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:51:16 -0800, DaveC <me@bogusdomain.net> wrote:
>Is it true that the higher the gain the flatter the "donut" shape of the
>sensitivity field?
That is the only way to get actual gain from a (horizontally)
omnidirectional antenna (excluding any MIMO designs).
Flattening the vertical radiation pastern may have severe drawbacks
especially if the mast is swinging in the wind or some weak (e.g.
indoors) users are close to the base of the mast.
"DaveC" <me@bogusdomain.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C54BA58A0075A070B01AD9AF@news.sf.sbcgl obal.net...
> Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.
>
> Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that
> cost
> is not too important (within reason)?
>
> There are scads of these on the 'net. I'm looking for someone who has
> experience with one or more of them and can make a recommendation for one.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> DaveC
> me@bogusdomain.net
> This is an invalid return address
> Please reply in the news group
> I have need of a directional antenna for a 30 foot path within the house.
> (the microwave oven wipes out the signal).
>
> Do you have any better details on construction?
================================================== ====
If your WiFi device is near the microwave oven , you indeed have a problem.
In my situation the oven is away (approx 7 - 8 metres) from the Wifi
system ,both router and laptop ,and I no longer had interference when
setting the WiFI System to the highest frequency (channel) with the
microwave oven freq at about 2390MHz.
On Nov 21, 8:47*pm, JIMMIE <jimmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2:38*am, DaveC <m...@bogusdomain.net> wrote:
>
> > Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.
>
> > Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given thatcost
> > is not too important (within reason)?
>
> > There are scads of these on the 'net. I'm looking for someone who has
> > experience with one or more of them and can make a recommendation for one.
>
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > DaveC
> > m...@bogusdomain.net
> > This is an invalid return address
> > Please reply in the news group
>
> I recently built a Franklin antenna for 2.4Ghz.
> I highly reccommend it. Google WiFi and franklin antenna.
>
> Jimmie
Also look up AMOS antenna. They are easy to make and work well
"Dave" <dave@dave.dave> wrote in message
news:4926c4f8$0$31141$bd467cd0@news.dslextreme.com ...
> Bill Kearney wrote:
>> "DaveC" <me@bogusdomain.net> wrote in message
>> news:0001HW.C54BA58A0075A070B01AD9AF@news.sf.sbcgl obal.net...
>>> Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.
>>
>> Whip antenna? What is this, for a vehicle? For a stationary location it
>> seems like it'd be an extremely bad idea to use an antenna that 'whipped'
>> around.
>>
>>> Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that
>>> cost
>>> is not too important (within reason)?
>>
>> Alligator effect. Wide mouth receiving everything. If you don't need to
>> pickup everything then why bother? It just makes it harder for your WiFi
>> router to cut through all the noise of distant stations it doesn't
>> communicate with. Get the right antenna suited for your installation, no
>> more, no less.
>>
>> Which leads to the constant request, when you ask a question POST WHAT
>> GEAR YOU'RE USING.
>>
>> In your case it would also help to define what sort of connection you're
>> trying to make. Point to point, metropolitan, etc.
>>
>> -Bill Kearney
> Short Pringle's can, 1/4 wave probe, 1/2 wave from closed end, soldered to
> female TNC.
-
I have need of a directional antenna for a 30 foot path within the house.
(the microwave oven wipes out the signal).
Guys! I've been selling these Biquads for a long time now and
everyone absolutely
loves them.
Check em out here... http://www.biquadantenna.com
Sold 30 just this month alone, and get emails all the time from
clients
on how good their performance is.
If it doesn't work, you get your money back! (minus shipping of
course)
Thanks for looking!
Pete
On Nov 22, 2:42*pm, highlandham <rfbu...@nospam.sco> wrote:
> > I have need of a directional antenna for a 30 foot path within the house.
> > (the microwave oven wipes out the signal).
>
> > Do you have any better details on construction?
>
> ================================================== ====
> If *your WiFi device is near the microwave oven , you indeed have a problem.
> In my situation the oven is away (approx 7 - 8 *metres) from the Wifi
> system ,both router and laptop ,and I no longer had interference when
> setting the WiFI System to the highest frequency (channel) with the
> microwave oven freq at about 2390MHz.
>
> Frank * KN6WH
> -
> I have need of a directional antenna for a 30 foot path within the house.
> (the microwave oven wipes out the signal).
>
Yikes! I have never seen that. I would be concerned about leakage.
Sometimes I have torn into things and found stupid stuff like paint over
grounding surfaces or rust in the compartment. There is a critical ground
around the probe entrance.
My microwave oven is in the far corner of the house and I run 100 watts on
VHF and 600 on HF at times and never had trouble. I never tried the laptop
in the kitchen for fear of spillage. The Linksys is essentially on the
floor to keep people in the park next door from ripping up my bandwidth.
(although sometimes I would prefer geeks hanging out there to chase the rest
out) No coverage problems at all. I do have an HT that gets "some"
interference when I set it on top of the oven.
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:08:54 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
<JIMMIEDEE123@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>On Nov 21, 8:47*pm, JIMMIE <jimmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I recently built a Franklin antenna for 2.4Ghz.
>> I highly reccommend it. Google WiFi and franklin antenna.
>> Jimmie
>Also look up AMOS antenna. They are easy to make and work well
>Jimmie
"JB" <nospam@goofball.net> wrote in message
news:0aeWk.371$QX3.10@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>> -
>> I have need of a directional antenna for a 30 foot path within the house.
>> (the microwave oven wipes out the signal).
>>
> Yikes! I have never seen that. I would be concerned about leakage.
> Sometimes I have torn into things and found stupid stuff like paint over
> grounding surfaces or rust in the compartment. There is a critical ground
> around the probe entrance.
>
>
The laptop computer is downstairs about 10 feet from the microwave, and the
wireless router is upstairs about 30 feet away with a desktop(and the path
goes through three walls and the floor. The microwave doesn't wipe out the
laptop, but slows things down a bit. A directional antenna would solve the
problem. I'm not trying to increase range at all.
On Nov 23, 7:39*pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:32:02 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
> >NEC2 model:
> ><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-7/>
> ><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-5/> *(not optimized yet)
>
> Fixed. *I was feeling guilty so I ran it through the optimizer in
> 4NEC2. *I haven't built a 5 dipole AMOS yet using these dimensions.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann * * je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558
I put one up I use with a WiFi repeater and I can see dozens of
wirless routers in my neighborhood. The antena i mounted at about
20ft on my chimney. There are about 8 or 9 with no security. If I so
chose I would never have to pay for internet service. There is another
subdivsion behind my house I havent even looked at that one yet.
Strange thing I know 3 of the people who have the open systems and
they are farly savy about these things. I wonder if they are leaving
them open on purpose.
JIMMIE wrote:
> On Nov 23, 7:39 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:32:02 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
>> <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>
>>> NEC2 model:
>>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-7/>
>>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-5/> (not optimized yet)
>>
>> Fixed. I was feeling guilty so I ran it through the optimizer in
>> 4NEC2. I haven't built a 5 dipole AMOS yet using these dimensions.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> I put one up I use with a WiFi repeater and I can see dozens of
> wirless routers in my neighborhood. The antena i mounted at about
> 20ft on my chimney. There are about 8 or 9 with no security. If I so
> chose I would never have to pay for internet service. There is another
> subdivsion behind my house I havent even looked at that one yet.
> Strange thing I know 3 of the people who have the open systems and
> they are farly savy about these things. I wonder if they are leaving
> them open on purpose.
>
> Jimmie
my WAP is open - no WEP or WPA,
and I have MAC filtering.....
yeah - if you REALLY wanted to get in, I guess you could,
but in most cases... it's someone war driving, or ??
"Wayne" <mygarbagecan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ggcr5n$3q1$1@news.motzarella.org...
>
> "JB" <nospam@goofball.net> wrote in message
> news:0aeWk.371$QX3.10@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >> -
> >> I have need of a directional antenna for a 30 foot path within the
house.
> >> (the microwave oven wipes out the signal).
> >>
> > Yikes! I have never seen that. I would be concerned about leakage.
> > Sometimes I have torn into things and found stupid stuff like paint over
> > grounding surfaces or rust in the compartment. There is a critical
ground
> > around the probe entrance.
> >
> >
> The laptop computer is downstairs about 10 feet from the microwave, and
the
> wireless router is upstairs about 30 feet away with a desktop(and the path
> goes through three walls and the floor. The microwave doesn't wipe out
the
> laptop, but slows things down a bit. A directional antenna would solve
the
> problem. I'm not trying to increase range at all.
>
It would certainly be best to remove the interference. If you have 4 bars
now, 5 bars might not do away with the problem. Moving the microwave just
5' more might be enough. You may have to bite the bullet and put in some
wiring to move the router.
Some of these guys are prone to take a practical problem like yours and turn
it into a full-blown engineering problem or a swap meet for their break
through technology or even an opportunity to throw mud. One engineering
problem we faced was how to contain UHF security and housekeeping repeaters
to a high rise building and it's underground structure. The final result
was 99% coverage in the building and the parking structure, but when
security went off the property, the radios went away. Visits to other
buildings showed no coverage there either. We had to do that for both
security and so we could get co-ordinated for licensing in an urban area.
But it was a multi-million dollar system. This is free.
Placing one of those in an upstairs room is an invitation to the neighbors.
I run a combination of wired and wireless. Wired to the desktop and to a
port replicator for the laptop and wireless to a print server with several
printers in a shop area, and the AP is off unless I want to roam around or
do print jobs. There are times I have printed from the laptop, wireless in
the shop to baby-sit print jobs, but it keeps the office clear and quiet.
One of these days I will have to run a cat5 out to the shop. It is simply
faster and more secure. The end result is my router, 1 foot off the floor
with the power set to 50% to do all I need to do.
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:26:58 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
<JIMMIEDEE123@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>On Nov 23, 7:39*pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:32:02 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >NEC2 model:
>> ><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-7/>
>> ><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-5/> *(not optimized yet)
>>
>> Fixed. *I was feeling guilty so I ran it through the optimizer in
>> 4NEC2. *I haven't built a 5 dipole AMOS yet using these dimensions.
>I put one up I use with a WiFi repeater and I can see dozens of
>wirless routers in my neighborhood. The antena i mounted at about
>20ft on my chimney. There are about 8 or 9 with no security. If I so
>chose I would never have to pay for internet service. There is another
>subdivsion behind my house I havent even looked at that one yet.
If stealing internet service from the neighbors is your intended
purpose, you selected the wrong type of antenna. A sector antenna may
be a great idea for running a WISP or central access point, where
you're never sure of the direction the client radios are coming from.
It's a bad idea for use at the client end. The idea is to pickup as
little interference as possible. You're reception of 9 stations is a
problem as any one of these could provide sufficient interference to
make your pirated internet connection useless. I suggest you look
into a panel or dish antenna, which will provide a much narrower
horizontal beamwidth, with the added bonus of more antenna gain.
>Strange thing I know 3 of the people who have the open systems and
>they are farly savy about these things. I wonder if they are leaving
>them open on purpose.
I was running an open access point at my office for a while. However,
I was also monitoring connection attempts and traffic. I figured that
nobody would bother. Wrong. I had some bum in a pickup truck and
camper, connect regularly to make VoIP phone calls. I had no problem
with him using the system and we eventually came to an arrangement.
However, he stupidly told all his friends, who immediately abused the
system, so I locked it up with a WPA password.
In another incident, one of my customers was in a hotel that wanted
real money to use their Wi-Fi. (This was about 6 years ago, before
the widespread proliferation of free Wi-Fi service). So, he connected
to a random open access point. The security on his laptop was more
than a little lacking (writable shared folders), resulting in the
installation of multiple trojan horses, spam bots, etc. I suspect the
open access point was an intentional trap set for hotel visitors.
rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,alt.internet.wireless added back to the
distribution line.
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:03:32 -0800, John Smith
<assemblywizard@gmail.com> wrote:
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> If stealing internet service from the neighbors is your intended
>> purpose, you selected the wrong type of antenna. ...
>
>I'd say stealing is bit strong, I run an open wireless access point
>here, its' SSID is "WelcomeAboard!"
My home system is "1540 Jackson Ave" which is my address. The
assumption is that someone wanting to use my system can bang on the
door and ask permission. My office SSID uses the company name.
>I think that "wrong type" (referring to OMNI, apparently) of antenna is
>perfect, given there are a few access points within range.
I'll stand by my statement. Unless you're running a mesh network, an
omni at the client end is a bad idea. The client knows the direction
of the desired access point and should use a directional antenna to
minimize interference. In my limited experience (I ran a small WISP
and neighborhood LAN/WLAN for a few years) interference is the most
serious impediment to reliable operation. The more you can do to NOT
hear the undesired stations, the more reliable the connection.
>You can
>"bridge" multiple access points for better throughput ...
Sorta. You can do route switching easily enough, but load balancing
between multiple internet connections can't be done without IP
bonding, which requires everyone's cooperation (including the ISP's).
The problem is that you can't use multiple ISP's to improve the
download speed from a single connection. For example, if you want to
download a large file, it will only go as fast as the speed of the
fastest ISP connection. The other WAN interfaces remain comatose
because there's no way to bond the single destination IP to two
different download streams and routes. You can download something
else using the 2nd WAN interface, but you can't use it to increase the
speed of the first. Uploading has a similar limitation, where you
can't improve the speed to a single connection. Where such routers
work best is if there is a LAN full of users sharing multiple WAN
connections, not for a single user looking for "better throughput..."
I've used a few of these with moderate success:
<http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_list.php?pl1_id=3&pl2_id=>
(See load balancing and multi-homing routers near bottom of page).
Incidentally, multiple cient radios, run to a passive combiner in a
single omni antenna is a total loser. The FCC specifically proscribes
synchronizing wi-fi radios. Even if the isolation can be increased
sufficiently to prevent receiver overload, it's highly probable that a
receive packet will arrive exactly when some other client radio goes
into transmit. Some relief can be obtained by using different
non-overlapping channels (1, 6, 11), but only with expensive bandpass
cavity filters. The spread spectrum spreads quite nicely into the
spectrum of the adjacent radio.
> My home system is "1540 Jackson Ave" which is my address. The
> assumption is that someone wanting to use my system can bang on the
> door and ask permission. My office SSID uses the company name.
Which raises the question, if someone uses your access point without
permission are you within your rights to do whatever you please with the
packets (and their contents) you detect?
Seems fair, steal my airwaves and I'll steal your data in return.
In article <-bOdncgMCo4WtrbUnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
Bill Kearney <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> My home system is "1540 Jackson Ave" which is my address. The
>> assumption is that someone wanting to use my system can bang on the
>> door and ask permission. My office SSID uses the company name.
>
>Which raises the question, if someone uses your access point without
>permission are you within your rights to do whatever you please with the
>packets (and their contents) you detect?
>
>Seems fair, steal my airwaves and I'll steal your data in return.
As far as the FCC is concerned, I suspect that the usual "third party
reception" rules would apply. If the communication is transmitted
over the airwaves but is not intended for you, you're permitted to
intercept the communication but *not* to make gainful personal use of
what you overhear.
There was one company which tried to prosecute some local "wardrivers"
who had publicized the fact that the company was running an open
wireless network. The FCC not only refused to pursue their complaint
(pointing out that the company had created the problem and failed to
mitigate it by turning on WEP), but cited the company for running an
illegal Part 15 network (they were using external high-power
amplifiers on their APs).
I'm reasonably sure that any criminal actions you implement with the
use of such data (e.g. making any unauthorized access to a protected
computer system, etc.) would *NOT* seen as legitimate by The Powers
That Be, even if you gained knowledge of that data by scarfing it off
of your own access point during an unauthorized use thereof.
As I understand it, there isn't any standard interpretation (even in
under U.S. laws) as to what rights-of-usage apply to an open access
point, in the absence of a statement by the AP's owner as to what the
rules are. The FCC doesn't appear to consider this aspect of the
wireless problem to be part of their jurisdiction.
I believe that in some areas, using such an AP without having received
some explicit form of permission is considered to be a tort (a civil
wrong) and the owner could file suit against you. Using the AP to
break into a computer network (e.g. accessing files, etc.) could
easily qualify as a prosecutable "computer crime".
I've read that some municipalities have passed a rule which says that
the act of setting up an insecure access point, and broadcasting
beacons "to the wind", counts as something akin to an open
invitation... enough so that the use of the AP without explicit
permission isn't considered a crime, or (I think) even a tort. This
might especially be true in the case of those APs/routers which come
with a WEP password pre-installed (the 2Wire models are one example)
and in which the owner must explicitly disable the security feature if
s/he decides that this is appropriate.
--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
> >I'd say stealing is bit strong, I run an open wireless access point
> >here, its' SSID is "WelcomeAboard!"
>
> My home system is "1540 Jackson Ave" which is my address. The
> assumption is that someone wanting to use my system can bang on the
> door and ask permission. My office SSID uses the company name.
LMAO! My SSID is the same as my front gate Password. That way I never have
to worry about opening it when I get home from work and the party is always
in full swing when I get there! It's a little bit bothersome when dead
bodies turn up in the moat though!
WiFi antenna recommendations? 
Linear Mode
